Another salute to Dash

[suzer1013]

I've just been over on the UMC boards reading Dash's wonderful posts there. Dash -- you are a fine example to me. I hope to someday be able to respond with the same love, conviction, patience and knowledge as you do. For the time being, I have limited my time over there because it was affecting me too negatively. Your presence there (as well as other Soulforcers) is a blessing.

Susan :)

[Vanessa White]

suzer: I am so resistant to spending any amounts of time over at UMC, so I cannot view it first hand, but I have no trouble believing that it is true, seeing how Dash is around here. He is totally awesome- Dash, we love you! :love: :love: :love:

[Jennifer5]

:pray: I'm proud of you Dash:love:

[Dash]

Thanks girls! :love:

There are definitely some wolves over there. Vanessa, I hear you loud and clear. After spending some weeks over there, I too have had the thought, "I need a break."

Truth is, I feel like it keeps me from being available to interact here with my lovely family. I've felt that all too keenly this week. Plus, I don't know how much value there is in sharing my light there. I have no idea what the readership of that forum is. Are there many quiet readers? Or have pastorsteve, vernon, melll and the few others in that pack of wolves driven them all away? I have already received emails of support from one of the posters over there who is very cautious because of the way she's been treated. There's no question, the effect of those angry voices is to scatter and intimidate gentler folk.

The members of that pack don't seem like any Methodist I have ever known or would have imagined. I wonder often why they identify with the Methodist Church, since they express so much admiration for more conservative denominations. On all topics (not just sexuality) they wretch up some of the vilest, bitterest, and least Jesus-like ideas that one could imagine.

I find myself relieved each time one of them shakes his "foot dust" off on me, since it gives me bit of a break from the fray. Actually, that quaint behavior of theirs is a welcome bit of comedy too. My co-worker and I were chortling over the last guy who informed me that he was standing in front of his computer stomping his feet to shake my dust from off him. :laughing:

Too bad they don't have a sense of humor....

[Steven E. Webster]

Dash wonders whether these adversaries are really Methodist. That's a good question. I've been monitoring, not posting, at a discussion board on the Unofficial Confessing Movement Website which is focused on the Methodist Church. It's at http://www.ucmpage.org/

I would describe this as a "hate web site." In fact, the gentleman who runs it once expressed his admiration and support for Fred Phelps. In actuality these people often describe themselves as "ex-Methodists" and spend a great deal of energy attacking official Methodism. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the posters at UMC.org are folks who also flock at this hate website.

Hang in there, Dash. But please pace yourself. Don't "throw your pearls before swine," but remember that your words do comfort the afflicted.

Steven E. Webster
Certified Lay Speaker ("Exhorter") in the United Methodist Church

[suzer1013]

I believe many of the "wolves" on those boards are affiliated with the Confessing Movement and the IRD (some have admitted to being devotees of these movements) and, no, they are not like any Methodists I have ever known. That's why it shocked me when I first went there -- I thought, is this representative of the UMC? And what would a person seeking a relationship with God through the UMC think when coming upon those boards? There certainly are all types of Methodists -- some more conservative than others. But the rhetoric of Pastor Steve, Mell, Vernon and a couple others is beyond the pale. I know the UMC boards are open to all, but you'd think there would be some kind of moderator coming on now and then to sort of say "this is not the official UMC position" on certain subjects. What I appreciate is seeing the gentle, supportive voices that do exist there, challenging those who continue to add spiritual violence to the mix.

There may be a time that I agree we are casting our pearls before swine. But I also think there are a whole lot of lurkers over there, who rarely if ever post because of folks like Pastor Steve. I'd hate to think that the wolves have driven all the sheep away.

Susan

[keltic63]

There may be a time that I agree we are casting our pearls before swine. But I also think there are a whole lot of lurkers over there, who rarely if ever post because of folks like Pastor Steve. I'd hate to think that the wolves have driven all the sheep away.

Susan

at one point, I cornered PastorSteve into the position of having to declare my salvation null and void. No other members took him to task for it, and since then I've not posted much over there. PastorSteve is a UMC minister. I've looked at the church's website and his name and contact information is readily available. Let's all go visit his church some sunday morning!

[suzer1013]

Keltic -- that's an absolutely fabulous idea!!! Road trip to Pastor Steve's, everybody!! I think he's somewhere in Ohio?

We could probably increase his congregation by 100%. I think at one point, he mentioned there are only 30 or so folks at his church. I wonder what his reaction would be, if we entered in love, with only love to offer?

I only know him from the UMC boards, but I admit to having some compassion for Pastor Steve, as much as his words sting and cut. I can see so clearly in his words how he has been taught spiritual violence. He is someone that I can clearly see as a victim of Untruth. And yet, I hate that he continues to spread that Untruth. But he is the first anti-gay person, albeit online, that I've clearly been able to see as a victim of the misinformation taught by churches and society. So I have a sense of compassion for him, despite the venom he sometimes spews. He has a brother, who he claims is "ex-gay" and has AIDS, and although I don't know the details, I can only imagine the spiritual pain they both are in, continuing to believe Untruth and incorporating the self-hatred that results from Pastor Steve's beliefs and teachings.

I apologize for not being there to back you up. The UMC boards have been a difficult place for me to be, and I've had to stop reading at times. And sometimes, I just don't even know how to respond to these folks. I'm not very well versed in these things, and sometimes my anger overwhelms me to the point that I can't respond, for fear of responding with the same "violence" that is being perpetrated.

I invited you all into the fray, hoping that voices stronger than mine might be able to make a difference. And I think it has made a difference -- at the very least, it has added positive voices of love and reason - more than were there previously. I'm very proud of all our Soulforcers in the conversations over there. Y'all really are a great example to me. I mean that - I don't mean it to sound sappy. :)

Susan

[Dash]

...or...

Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!:p

This is a day of questions for me. I woke up early, then napped...later I got up and spent some time meditating... And the thing is, as strongly as I feel about presenting the truth and standing firm against voices like those at the UMC forums, I think the evidence is mounting for me to say it is not a good battle front for me...perhaps for any of us...

I just think that going there to post is like walking into a den of wolves. Even if there are other gentler eyes looking on, there is no support from any Methodist leadership. I think it is a dangerous pass on the road, and the robbers that live there jump out onto every new passerby. The angry voices that howl there really seem to feed on the dismay they create. If they aren't able to beat someone down, they set new traps by starting new inflammatory threads. They set their bait and then lie in wait for the next person who looks in on the foolishness they've posted. Then they pounce, and together they circle their victim, leering and gloating over their prey. They grin and wink while they shout encouragement to each other and rattle their rusty swords.

Susan, I think it is clear that that dark pit does not represent the Methodist Church in any way, but rather a few followers of the IRD and such. It seems that, as one of it's goals for the Methodist Church, that external organization desires to remove the leaders of the Church, the Bishops and councils, from power and replace them with laity. The wolves would have the shepherds taken from the flock so that they might have their vicious way with them. They want all the called, trained and ordained leaders to be replaced with untrained, less-educated, Church members...sheep that they can control.

Online forums do tend to attract devils. But I'm thinking that more good can be done in person. We already know that there is power in letting people get to know us, and whatever evil rhetoric and false teaching that may fly online, it can't stand against a body of believers gathered in Jesus' name. Today, I'm leaning toward focusing my work on personal 3-D interaction rather than fighting internet foes. I'm not quite sure what that will mean, because it's been a few years since I've been active in a Church...and I'm very wary still of that as well. There are still strong inclinations within me to avoid being too "christian." I struggle with the bloody taint it has. As one who tries to follow Jesus, my basic question is still, "Can I follow Jesus by walking the Christian path." But regardless, I don't think my gifts are wisely used by trying to teach the intractable, comfort the vicious, or speak to the invisible and silent onlookers. I would rather feed my family. :love:

If I could, I would set up signposts to mark those forums as "dead land" and "dangerous territory." It reeks of poison and decay, and I can only recommend that all good people steer well clear of it. Course, I may feel differently on a different day too...we'll see. :)

The Methodist Church is, in my experience, full of wonderful, welcoming Christians. I hope, Susan, that you can take confidence in the loving fellowship that you find in your congregation, and not be bothered by this dark pocket. Perhaps we should contact the United Methodist Church online ministry and express our concerns about their forums. They do seem to be neglected, and sadly unmoderated. I think the Church's online ministry would be much stronger and clearer without the forum, quite frankly. It seems to exist as a dark, out-of-the way cranny where all manner of monkeyshines and shenanigans find a home.

[Jennifer5]

Just don't over do it Dash... you're family needs you over here... so don't forget about us:love:

[Dash]

Just don't over do it Dash... you're family needs you over here... so don't forget about us:love:

Yup!! :love:

We're thinking the same thing at the same time in that regard, darlin'!

[Jennifer5]

Yup!!
We're thinking the same thing at the same time in that regard, darlin'!
:love: yes, guilty... we need you and you know it

[Dash]

:love: yes, guilty... we need you and you know it

Nuh, unh...I need ya'll more!!!:p

[Jennifer5]

Nuh, unh...I need ya'll more!!!:pWhich ever way that works... it feels like we really have become a family and need each other.. we all go away each day and do our own seperate things... but then we all come back knowing this is a safe/loving/caring place:love:

[suzer1013]

I just think that going there to post is like walking into a den of wolves. Even if there are other gentler eyes looking on, there is no support from any Methodist leadership. I think it is a dangerous pass on the road, and the robbers that live there jump out onto every new passerby. The angry voices that howl there really seem to feed on the dismay they create. If they aren't able to beat someone down, they set new traps by starting new inflammatory threads. They set their bait and then lie in wait for the next person who looks in on the foolishness they've posted. Then they pounce, and together they circle their victim, leering and gloating over their prey. They grin and wink while they shout encouragement to each other and rattle their rusty swords.
(snip)
Perhaps we should contact the United Methodist Church online ministry and express our concerns about their forums. They do seem to be neglected, and sadly unmoderated. I think the Church's online ministry would be much stronger and clearer without the forum, quite frankly. It seems to exist as a dark, out-of-the way cranny where all manner of moneyshines and shenanigans find a home.

That's about the most perfect description of those boards that I've heard! And I agree that the boards are neglected and sadly unmoderated. I've thought about writing to the online ministry about just that subject.

I am no longer a member of the UMC -- for many reasons. I switched my membership back to the Episcopal church, but don't know if I'll consider myself a "member" of any other church ever again.

I will probably stop going to those boards. I just hate the thought, though, of the innocent seeker coming across that and being turned off to the UMC because of it. But, there's not much I can do about that - - everyone's on their own journey, I guess.

Susan :love:

[Zerbie]

I love and respect you both for your input here, and for what I am sure is/was a lot of loving and enlightening words over on those UMC boards I never once cared to visit. :love:

There come times in our lives when we must take care of our OWN stuff, and we make the greatest gifts to the world by being sure that we DO take care of our own. Take care of yourselves first, Susan and Dash, then your nearest and dearest. That IS a spiritual service, and it DOES have ripples that extend outward, if only we knew how much. I can tell you of many people in my life who said a kind word or lived an example of gentleness, joyfulness, and peace who I remember to this day as great examples, great teachers, and luminous circles of warmth in a cold world. And I never told them - because it's only from a distance of 20 years that I see just how loving and marvelous that elementary school music teacher was, or how wise beyond his years was that kid named Josh who sat in the back of the room for senior English, and on and on. Susan and Dash, rest assured you are touching others in good ways that they will remember in the years to come.

In so many ways, I believe that those who live their lives as quiet examples without chasing the world down to try and change it, but simply BEING the souls they are, are the wisest among us.

[keltic63]

Keltic -- that's an absolutely fabulous idea!!! Road trip to Pastor Steve's, everybody!! I think he's somewhere in Ohio?

We could probably increase his congregation by 100%. I think at one point, he mentioned there are only 30 or so folks at his church. I wonder what his reaction would be, if we entered in love, with only love to offer?

I only know him from the UMC boards, but I admit to having some compassion for Pastor Steve, as much as his words sting and cut. I can see so clearly in his words how he has been taught spiritual violence. He is someone that I can clearly see as a victim of Untruth. And yet, I hate that he continues to spread that Untruth. But he is the first anti-gay person, albeit online, that I've clearly been able to see as a victim of the misinformation taught by churches and society. So I have a sense of compassion for him, despite the venom he sometimes spews. He has a brother, who he claims is "ex-gay" and has AIDS, and although I don't know the details, I can only imagine the spiritual pain they both are in, continuing to believe Untruth and incorporating the self-hatred that results from Pastor Steve's beliefs and teachings.

I apologize for not being there to back you up. The UMC boards have been a difficult place for me to be, and I've had to stop reading at times. And sometimes, I just don't even know how to respond to these folks. I'm not very well versed in these things, and sometimes my anger overwhelms me to the point that I can't respond, for fear of responding with the same "violence" that is being perpetrated.

I invited you all into the fray, hoping that voices stronger than mine might be able to make a difference. And I think it has made a difference -- at the very least, it has added positive voices of love and reason - more than were there previously. I'm very proud of all our Soulforcers in the conversations over there. Y'all really are a great example to me. I mean that - I don't mean it to sound sappy. :)

Susan

No No NO!!!! I didn't mean that as a slap to you or any other soulforce members. I just thought it was odd that other members of the UMC boards didn't jump on that.
here's the dilemma: a person claims the name of Christ and for the most part, appears to be living the life that Jesus calls them to lead, as a Christian. ANOTHER Christian decides that this follower isn't a Christian because of "X" and says so, loudly, repeatedly, and venomously. Other christians are ok with this. And all of this takes place while disregarding clear scriptures that say we are not the judge of others. Now, because PastorSteve is guilty of this, is it my duty to say that he's not "really" a christian? or do I merely point out that he is not behaving in a way that aligns with scripture? My point is, I believe he is genuine, but genuinely wrong on this issue. on the other hand, he doesn't believe that I am a christian, based on this one point: my sexual orientation.

[tdogg]

I applaud those of you who are called to dialogue on other abusing boards. Don't think I could spend much time there. I've done it with a relative or two, and that was hard enough for me. Maybe some day...

Meanwhile, thanks for that Suzer, Dash, Keltic and all others. Keep the faith - I have to believe some day, some way, you will get to them (in a good way).

It does just completely baffle me, how people esp those who call themselves Christians take it upon themselves to decide who gets into heaven or not. Who is saved. Who is sinning. Who is allowed the blessings of having God. I could never be that arrogant and self-assuming. What in the heck are they all thinking???!!! That is SO UN-Christlike!!

[Dash]

No No NO!!!! I didn't mean that as a slap to you or any other soulforce members. I just thought it was odd that other members of the UMC boards didn't jump on that.
here's the dilemma: a person claims the name of Christ and for the most part, appears to be living the life that Jesus calls them to lead, as a Christian. ANOTHER Christian decides that this follower isn't a Christian because of "X" and says so, loudly, repeatedly, and venomously. Other christians are ok with this. And all of this takes place while disregarding clear scriptures that say we are not the judge of others. Now, because PastorSteve is guilty of this, is it my duty to say that he's not "really" a christian? or do I merely point out that he is not behaving in a way that aligns with scripture? My point is, I believe he is genuine, but genuinely wrong on this issue. on the other hand, he doesn't believe that I am a christian, based on this one point: my sexual orientation.


You know, Keltic...your experience with not having anyone over there back you up is what started me questioning whether there actually is anyone else there. One of the guys used about three feet of webpage to call me Satan and then informed me that he was literally standing up at his computer and stomping his feet at me. I'm not sure there's anyone there to even see the nonsense and respond...at least not more than one or two others.

You know...my co-worker said my response to his foot stomping should be, "I fart in your general direction." (a Monty Python quote) Hahahh!!! Alas...it woulda been funny, but not at all appropriate.

[keltic63]

so I went over there to check it out :eek:

I blew up. :mad:

PastorSteve has really gone overboard, and I let him have it. I'm not sure that it was the right thing to do, but I did it.

[jason]

I couldn't locate the forum that this thread refers to, but in searching for it I found something at http://www.crrange.com/soulwar.html that seems so illogical, although I shouldn't be suprised. In the section titled, "When Your Sermon Becomes a Hate Crime," the author's main point seems to be that pro-homosexual hate crime laws will lead to criminalizing free speech. Has this been the result of all the other hate crime laws? No, it hasn't and I hope it never does because free speech should be valued by both sides of any issue.

It seems to me that "Christian" groups whose message pushes people away from Jesus must not be teaching the right message.

[Dash]

Hi Jason,

The forum is at The United Methodist Church Online Ministry (http://www.umc.org) at www.umc.org (http://www.umc.org). On the left side of the page is a link for "Online Discussions."

Gosh! I hesitate to even give the link to you. :eek:

[Points his finger like a whithered old gypsy woman] Take care traveler! The forest is dark and there are many dangers along that path. You may be sorry you asked! :shifty:

:lol:

[Jennifer5]

You shouldn't of done that Dash... now I have to sign up...

[Dash]

Noooo!!!! Don't do it!!

[falls on his knees and shakes his fist at heaven]

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!:eek:

What have I done?

[Jennifer5]

?????????????

[Daniel]

so I went over there to check it out :eek:

I blew up. :mad:

PastorSteve has really gone overboard, and I let him have it. I'm not sure that it was the right thing to do, but I did it.


Time out for Art!

Reading this thread reminds of the phrase "Where Angels Fear Tread".

Where Angels Fear to Tread (1905) is a novel by E. M. Forster, originally entitled Monteriano. In 1991 it was made into a film by Charles Sturridge, starring Rupert Graves, Giovanni Guidelli, Helen Mirren, Helena Bonham Carter, and Judy Davis. The title comes from a line in Alexander Pope's An Essay on Criticism:

No Place so Sacred from such Fops is barr’d,
Nor is Paul’s Church more safe than Paul’s Church-Yard:
Nay, fly to Altars; there they’ll talk you dead;
For fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Of course, all who dare cross swords with Paster Steve are no fools by any means, though I gather from what Dash and Keltic have written that one leaves Paster Steve's 'sanctuary' without 'passing the peace'.

My spouse has crossed swords with many a fundi Christian on the NY Times Gay Forum and reported yestereday that one of them, the most fundi of fundi's, the most conservative of conservatives, hard line rightwinger (Roman Catholic Republican), posted a message detailing his change of heart re GLBT matters. Spouse tells me that he's only seen two such reversals in 6 years. Here's the story:


nevadaaa - 3:04 PM ET July 27, 2006 (#32460 of 32822)
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” - Mark Twain

newdoctor #15707 2:17 PM ET 7/27/2006

“You been lurking over in Gay Rights? Please join the show if you have.”
---
Thanks Doc… I think I will join.

I have been posting on the “Forums” for a regular/semi-regular time now… about 2-years, mostly on the National Security forum. But have from time to time wandered over to the Gay Rights forum.

I have taken a good look at myself regarding Gay Rights for some time and this… Conservative Roman Catholic Republican… has experienced a kind of St. Paul “Road to Damascus” conversion with regard to Gay Marriage and other gay issues.

Local, State & Federal Governments and all religions should bug out in matters of the heart. For the life of me I cannot come up, any longer, with viable arguments as to why a gay couple should not be allowed to marry enjoying the full benefits such a union brings. For the life of me I cannot come up with any reasons why a loving gay couple should not be allowed to adopt a child with the restrictions for such no different than that for a heterosexual couple. For the life of me I don’t understand how gay marriage can be a threat to heterosexual marriage.

If anyone can dissuade me of my “conversion” I’d like to see him or her try.



nevadaaa - 4:33 PM ET July 27, 2006 (#32481 of 32822)
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” - Mark Twain

leszekcnn #32461 3:20 PM ET 7/27/2006

My world is reeling. When did this conversion come about?
-----
Unfortunately because of a tragedy lesz and I think it is worth telling.

10 years ago my wife and I sold (sans broker) our house to a couple of gay guys both named Michael… the “2 Mikes” we called them. During the course of the sale we got to know them and they us. Found out we had something in common… they liked to play contract bridge. After the sale was completed the 2 Mikes invited us to dinner and bridge. That began a monthly get together… the last Saturday of every month… at their place and the next month ours… dinner and bridge.

We did this with virtually no cancellations for almost 10 years. It was one of the activities in our lives we looked forward to and enjoyed greatly. My wife fell in love with the younger Mike… both were great guys, the younger Mikes sense of humor kept us in stitches every time we got together and the older Mike kept us all focused… after all good food and bridge was the thing.

Young Mike was a chemical engineer and worked for BP at their big cracking plant in Long Beach California… the night shift. 3-months ago while driving home from work he was killed by a drunk driver. The older Mike recently sold his house and moved away… we have tried to keep in contact but I believe it is just too painful for him, maybe after more time has passed…

My wife and I were tore up… I don’t think she will ever fully get over it… foolish to think she should.

While sitting in the church during the funeral all I could think of would be how I would miss him and that I could have been a better friend. The whole tragic business readjusted my beliefs and attitudes. It is awful that it took the death of a friend to do so.

So, you just never know, do you?

[Steven E. Webster]

Friends,

Someone here mentioned that Pastor Steve is one of the particularly obnoxious on the UMC board. I was able to find the website of his church which is in suburban Toledo, Ohio.

http://www.livingfaithumc.org/templates/eas02bl/default.asp?id=26491

There is at least one good, gay-friendly, United Methodist Reconciling Congregation in Toledo, Ohio. Here is its website.

http://www.centraltoledo.org/aboutus.html

Maybe we should start continually challenging Pastor Steve to send the people he won't or can't minister to to the United Methodist Church down the road. I wonder if he'd say bad things on line about another pastor or another congregation in his district. I've not read all that he's written on line, but if it's bad enough he is answerable to his District Superintendant, his Bishop and his fellow clergy.

We also should challenge the UMC.org website to do the better job of moderating that others here have suggested.

I'm just brainstorming here. I also like the idea someone suggested of showing up at his church. Something else to think about.

Steven E. Webster
Certified Lay Speaker ("Exhorter"), United Methodist Church

[Zerbie]

Wow Daniel, what a story.

As for spending time on forums such as the one here described, the conversation spurred me to add a relevant profile signature. So I am trying it out, to see if I managed to save it correctly and if it appears in this post.

[suzer1013]

My most recent offering at the UMC boards, for what it's worth. This is in response to another poster who suggested that all opinions should be welcome and that the anti-gay voices should be allowed to speak (which I don't disagree with, I just think there's a line that has been crossed, that is way beyond respectful discussion):

___________
It is one thing to respectfully disagree, but yet another to spread Untruth in the name of God, to demean and dehumanize other Christians, to not even allow that your brother in Christ IS a Christian because of your narrow, bigoted reading of scripture. I understand Pastor Steve's, and a few others here, reading of scripture is the "traditional" one -- that I will not argue. However, tradition is sometimes wrong (as with slavery) and, I believe, the "traditional" scriptural intepretation about homosexuality is wrong, too.

Pastor Steve and a few others here continue to practice spiritual violence against other Christians who do not agree with them. Can't we all respectfully agree to disagree? The answer to some here would be "no, you MUST agree with me and obey my scriptural interpretation, or I will brand you sinner and compare your loving relationship to pedophilia and bestiality." I can accept that there are those who believe homosexuality to be sin -- fine. I disagree and the reasons why have been presented time and time again on these forums and elsewhere. But to declare God does not hear the prayers of a homosexual is not only unChristian, but I believe completely unethical, especially for one who calls himself a minister of God.

I have compassion for those who shout hatred toward homosexuals, people of color, liberals and immigrants on this forum, and yes, it has sometimes kept me away from here -- I'm sure to the pleasure of the IRD and Good News adherents here. But I also have compassion toward them because they have been taught unTruth, and they continue to spread lies about their fellow men. It is sad, really, and I hope that someday the grace of God will open their eyes to the true Love of Jesus.

Until then, I agree that this board should have some element of moderation, so it can be a welcoming place to ALL seekers, not just those who agree with fundamentalist and literalist interpretations of scripture. All voices are welcome, but spiritual abuse is not welcome here, at least not to me. If the UMC does not make some changes to these boards, I believe many gentle souls seeking Christ will be driven away.
________________


Susan

[Jennifer5]

Well said Susan:love:

[keltic63]

Susan, very nice job!

[Dash]

Thanks Susan and Keltic for your support over there. I'm interested to see what will happen there now. We've been able to get a number of concerned people to add their voices to the thread and that's generated some kindness. I wonder if the worst offenders could stand to be in the same room with voices that constantly expressed their appreciation, forgiveness and charity toward one another...and held each accountable to speak with compassion, regardless of their beliefs.

I don't know...maybe they would still jump in and spit their venom...

It's kind of funny, though, to see that in the "Gay Marriage" thread no one is talking about it, while in three other threads not related to sexuality, they can't stop talking about sex. Crazy!:rolleyes:

[keltic63]

Keltic -- that's an absolutely fabulous idea!!! Road trip to Pastor Steve's, everybody!! I think he's somewhere in Ohio?

We could probably increase his congregation by 100%. I think at one point, he mentioned there are only 30 or so folks at his church. I wonder what his reaction would be, if we entered in love, with only love to offer?


after reading more of his posts this morning, I'm really thinking that a visit to his church, with as many lgbt people as possible, for the sole purpose of worship, not confrontation, would be an excellent idea!

[Jennifer5]

after reading more of his posts this morning, I'm really thinking that a visit to his church, with as many lgbt people as possible, for the sole purpose of worship, not confrontation, would be an excellent idea!
yeah! sounds like fun...:D

[Dash]

I just don't think I could bring myself to be around such a toxic man. He's about as close to Fred Phelps as I've ever come in a person.

Ugh!! I've been looking for an "ignore" feature over there, but there ain't one as far as I can tell.

[nowvoyager]

"Jesus called. He wants his religion BACK"
This thread reminded me of this, I think I saw it on a t-shirt somewhere...

Dash, I loved your fantastical description of a road surrounded by wolves and nasties - how very Lord of the Rings! I agree wholeheartedly, a traveler has to beware.

As delightful and respectful as this online forum is, alas there are others quite the opposite, harboured, I believe, by people who are possibly mentally ill, who feed on mischief and who wish to corrupt the hearts of those that come along, and people almost lost to a holy voice. I am happily far along the path of righteousness, but there are many much further along than I, and so I say a prayer for these mischeivous spirits and leave them to those. In my turn, I can help smaller Goliaths, as my part of a team effort. As I travel further down the path I hope I can help bigger Goliaths - but tangling with these ones now will nearly do me in. That's how I read the "pearls before swine" thing.

There are other places to reach lurkers and wanderers, perhaps those that have been scared away from those dark forums.