Differences between Southern Baptist and United Church of Christ

[pnggrad79]

Being from a Southern Baptist background, and deeply steeped in its beliefs and traditions (although learning how wrong they are on things like homosexuality) what is the basic difference between Southern Baptist and UCC? Could someone please explain?:)

[SolInvictus]

UCC:
Liberal, theologically
Bible as partial or all metaphor
"May they all be one" John 17:21 - the "united" principle of the UCC viewing Christ as spiritual head of the Church & all religions & Christian denominations as being different expressions that worship God & to encourage interfaith relations so that "they may all be one."
Liturgy used; indiv. churches as autonymous, but generally agree w/ the general governing body, the General Synod.
Encourage individual thought & dialogue among members concerning social issues & Bible studies: thinking for one self, essentially.
Sacraments honored, esp. Eucharist (open for all), and baptism (not mandatory), etc.
Equality of gender in "priesthood" regardless of male, female, transgendered, or sexual orientation; equal value among all people
Seperation of church/state; Pro-life
NRSV Bible generally used rather than KJV.
Pastor/minister equal with members of congregation & with same privaledges.
For more info: www.ucc.org/index1
www.stillspeaking.com

SBC:
Conservative, theologically
Bible as literal w/ preference towards KJV or NIV editions.
Baptism necessary for salvation.
Evangelism encouraged.
"Traditional values"
Seperation of church/state
"Cooperation" among the denominations
Christianity as sole religion necessary for salvation
Pro-life
Men solely for "priesthood" but women considered "equal value" to men
Individual church autonomy within confines of SBC doctrine
For more info: http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/psautonomy.asp

Hope this helps & some represent my opinion; visit websites cited for official statements of belief.

Blessings,
Sol Invictus

P.S. Yes, research is a hobby & career choice for me in grad studies :-)

[Jamie McDaniel]

UCC:
Bible as partial or all metaphor

I grew up SBC and now just refer to myself as Baptist, but feel a real connection with the UCC. I've only been involved with one UCC congregation, and they were fabulous.

When talking about the UCC and the Bible, I'm thinking the inclusion of "...or all metaphor" is off base. Wouldn't it be better to say that the UCC encourages readers of the Bible to ask the following question when studying each story: "Is this to be taken literally or is this intended to be understood as a metaphor for a greater truth?"

SBC:
Bible as literal w/ preference towards KJV or NIV editions.

In the past few years, the New American Standard Bible (NASB) has become the translation of choice among the fundamentalists. And there was huge resistance to the Today's New International Version (TNIV).

SBC:
Baptism necessary for salvation.

There may be a minority of Southern Baptists that believe this, but every Southern Baptist I know would say that baptism, though a commandment, is not necessary for salvation. Southern Baptists believe the one's salvation occurs the instant a confession of faith is made.

SBC:
Seperation of church/state

Historic Baptist principles champion the idea of seperation of church and state. In fact, Baptists are credited with getting the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the new Southern Baptist Convention that emerged after the fundamentalist takeover in 1979 is another story.

SBC:
"Cooperation" among the denominations

You know, growing up SBC, I had no idea what the word "ecumenical" meant. The word was never used. If it had, it probably would've been with the example of us playing the Methodists in church league softball.

The SBC (at least the new Southern Baptist convention) is not an ecumenical denomination. They don't even cooperate with other Baptists like the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the American Baptist Church, or the National Baptist Convention. And just recently they ended their 100 year relationship with the Baptist World Alliance. Very sad -- and also telling of where the SBC is headed if the good people in the pews don't do something quick and hold their leaders accountable. Unfortunately, most of the good people remain silent as Southern Baptists of ill-will loudly praise God with their lips yet grieve the Spirit with their embracing of injustice, oppression, and untruth.

[Jennifer5]

Thanks, this helps me clear a lot of things up... and you said a lot about Southern Baptist that I didn't know.:)

[pnggrad79]

Growing up in a Southern Baptist church all my life, I never once heard that baptism was conditional to salvation. It was explained to me that since the thief on the cross never had the chance to be baptized and yet was saved by his admission on the cross of Jesus as Lord, that baptism was NOT necessary for salvation, only a visible declaration before man that you were not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I did once hear that in the Church of Christ denomination that baptism was necessary. This lady asked me, "Have you been baptized for the remission of sin?" and I said that Jesus' death on the cross was the remission for my sin. Nowhere in Scripture does it allude to the fact that baptism was a requirement for salvation. At least not to my knowledge. I would welcome anyone to show me where it does say that, however. I am always open to be enlightened.:o

[SolInvictus]

Thanks Jamie for the corrections :-)

I should have clairified what the opinions were from me - living in a deeply conservative town, S. Baptists strongly encourage baptism as necessary here (but they may be First Baptists? All of the denom.'s can be confusing lol), and usually believe they are the sole source of salvation.

Yeah, like your response regarding the UCC better in regards to metaphorical interpretation. Its a great denom. - glad you feel connected to them too. They are great in urging social reform/change & other issues.

[SolInvictus]

Just to clarify, the United Church of Christ & Church of Christ are different entities/denominations & not affiliated with one another. This is a common misconception. Baptism isn't mandatory in the UCC.

Likewise, there are also variations among the following:
1. Christian Union
2. Church of Christ in Christian Union
3. Church of Christ

Surprisingly, the above mentioned denominations are quite different from one another. For example, Christian Union believes that salvation is not a permenant state & if one "backslides," then they must seek to be "saved" again. The CCCU (#2) however believes in permenant salvation ("once saved; always saved). Baptism is strongly encouraged, but not necessary to become a full member.

Yes, the various denominations are confusing at times as with the diverse Baptist variations.

Hope this helps.



Growing up in a Southern Baptist church all my life, I never once heard that baptism was conditional to salvation. It was explained to me that since the thief on the cross never had the chance to be baptized and yet was saved by his admission on the cross of Jesus as Lord, that baptism was NOT necessary for salvation, only a visible declaration before man that you were not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I did once hear that in the Church of Christ denomination that baptism was necessary. This lady asked me, "Have you been baptized for the remission of sin?" and I said that Jesus' death on the cross was the remission for my sin. Nowhere in Scripture does it allude to the fact that baptism was a requirement for salvation. At least not to my knowledge. I would welcome anyone to show me where it does say that, however. I am always open to be enlightened.:o

[Catt of the Garage]

Pnngrad - you're right, I think - as far as I am aware, nowhere in the Bible is there a statement that baptism is necessary to salvation. It is a public declaration of your committment to Jesus and a matter of obedience, that's all. I know this is irrelevant as Baptist churches across the world vary hugely, but for interest's sake, Baptist churches in Scotland generally consider baptism a prerequisite for full membership (i.e. to allow you to vote at church meetings, propose motions, be a deacon etc.) but do not consider it a prerequisite for salvation. You can be a happy saved adherent, as I was for many years. Of course the individual churches are not required to abide by the decisions of the Baptist Union so there may be some churches out there that don't require baptism for membership, either.

[revtj]

As a UCC minister ordained in a congregation that was (formerly Southern, now Alliance) Baptist and UCC, I'd say you all got it right.

Baptists & UCC (as well as UUs) share congregational polity which means that each local congregation is autonomous. This can be messy and make room for flakes but we think it's better than having a bishop or prebytery or synod or any other individual or group tell us what we must do/believe.

The great take-over of the Southern Baptists which ya'll have mentioned was unfortunately a major exploitation of congregational polity's loose grip on denominationalism. It has created a tyranny of the minority of fundamentalist leaders and scared open-minded leaders away (if they weren't thrown out!)

[Jamie McDaniel]

As a UCC minister ordained in a congregation that was (formerly Southern, now Alliance) Baptist and UCC...

Wow, I know individuals who were Southern Baptist who became UCC (I'm thinking about it myself), but not entire congregations! That's great. Which one?

Wait... I remember two great congregations in Georgia that were profiled in the book Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth. Going to Google now.... Yep! Just what I thought, you must go to Virginia-Highland Church.

A few years ago I attended a Baptist Pastor's Conference at Georgetown College here in Kentucky. (I had got invited by one of the college staff who had attended a discussion on the church and homosexuality when Mel White came to Lexington.)

Rev. Tim Shirley of Virginia-Highland was at the Pastor's Conference and when they introduced him I clapped loudly. Then everyone else started clapping. Later I went up to Rev. Shirley with a copy of Rightly Dividing in tow and thanked him and his wife for the stand they and their church took for GLBT people.

The great take-over of the Southern Baptists which ya'll have mentioned was unfortunately a major exploitation of congregational polity's loose grip on denominationalism. It has created a tyranny of the minority of fundamentalist leaders and scared open-minded leaders away (if they weren't thrown out!)
A great (and very disturbing) documentary on the SBC fundamentalist takeover is Battle for the Minds. I highly recommend anyone who is connected to the SBC to watch it.

http://www.newday.com/films/Battle_for_the_Minds.html

[cogito_ergo_sum]

i grew up in the uniting church (i dont know if thats the same as te ucc) but it doesnt take everything literally. its like, some things really did happen like that, but other things are stories that Jesus told or metaphors. its like we use figurative landuage today. Baptists are really far too conservative and stuff for me. and i though the catholics were bad