The Contemplation of Love

[Dash]

I believe that the contemplation of Love transforms us. I think perhaps this is why we have been made somewhat incomplete...why we are driven by spiritual, emotional and physical needs to bond with another in love. The need...the seeking...the difficulty of living it out...the hope and the despairs of love all draw us into the Divine Heart where our embryonic form grows. There we bloom and change with softer curves, unfurling wings, and ever more brilliant plumage.

What have you learned from love and it's schooling in your life? Here is a thread for your thoughts and insights in love...your reflections on past love...pop songs and poetry that wrenched your soul...bible verses and favorite quotes.

Here in this thread we can contemplate love together and be transformed by each other's love.

I have recently been listening mostly to Unchained Melody...yes, just that one song. I've been known to spend weeks at a time with the CD player on "repeat." Hahah!! I downloaded eleven versions from iTunes and have been reveling in the beauty and the call of those lyrics. I don't know what it is about that particular song, but it touches me every time I hear it. I have The Righteous Brothers, The Supremes, Patti Labelle, LeAnn Rimes, Kenny Rogers, Elvis Presley, Cyndi Lauper, Air Supply, Barry Manilow (shut it!), Willie Nelson, and Harry Belafonte.

(Yeah, yeah...chuckle all you want, see if I care!):lol:

I think that our struggle for rights and acceptance is one of the most important struggles in the history of humanity. All of its focus is on love...the nature of love...the human need for love...loving those who are different than us. Poets and peasants, Kings and hermits have been contemplating and celebrating love for millennia, and now here we are in this twilight age fighting just to be allowed to love!

That’s what I got for the moment...now it's your turn...speak to me of love.:love:

[Zerbie]

First off, our beloved Dash, we love *you.* :love:

Yes, it is about love.

I have learned that if it's really love, it is always right. I've been punished outwardly for acting on the impulse of love, but it's always better for the spirit to have preserved your loving nature, even at cost, than to toss it into an interior prison to gain worldly approval. Better to still have your spiritual selfhood and be wounded and battered outside, than to preserve the outside at the loss of your central being. FAR better. Insist on Love, and Love will protect you, even if "only" on the inner level. That's the one level that really matters.

Regards the struggles for equality. . .oh my. I remember being 6 or 7 years old when figuring out all this anti-gay garbage and I distinctly remember the moment when I discovered that homosexuals were hated: "The world hates them because they *love* each other. What kind of a world *is* this??" I saw the Spirit of Love itself hated and spit upon. Then I resolved inwardly to follow the spiritual law and love my gay neighbors (and myself and possible future girlfriend if I should turn out to someday have one) despite the messages I was being taught by my parents and society. I just remember being little and *remembering* that such was the law of the spirit. :dove:

(and I wondered how long it would be until I found others "like me." Thanks to all Soulforce friends for finally letting me find you. :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: )

:love: Love you, Dash. :love:

[Jennifer5]

I never know how to put into words how much I love every one of you. I'm never good with words and only know what I feel... I just know that every time I feel down, when someone is sending a hug your way you can really feel it and those things make all the difference. It seems as though the love (here particularly) just seems completely unreal and amazing:love:

[Dash]

Whenever I speak of these things with my friends I cry, "Unrequite is the purest form of love!"

[Jabs his finger in the air for emphasis]

Hahaha!! Whether or not it is true, I really can't say, but as a long-suffering student under her fierce tutelage these many years, I can say that there is indeed much to be learned from her.

Unrequite has come to me again and again since I began to seek love (really only for the last 10 years or so, you know) to say, "Look, but do not touch. Love, but never possess."

Or perhaps, "Love, even though you may not touch, nor ever possess."

I have studied the art of letting go of all I loved, without ever holding it in my hand. I have understood the bond of faithfulness that will not let me go, even though the one to whom I must be faithful can never return my love. Yes! Even Unrequite is faithful to the object of its affection, and will not be swayed by many temptations, for it is as true as any other love. A thousand rejections do not wash away the pangs of Unrequite, nor will its eternal flames cease their burning.

Today, I found one of my dear unrequited loves online. It was the late 90's after I had graduated from college and was working at a frameshop. He was the first person for whom my immense potential for adoration (with which I was generally acquainted) connected with physical desire (which was somewhat a stranger to me). It was like second puberty! God! What a terrible and wonderful agony! I could not be around him without becoming aroused. I laugh to remember my sad state as I literally ran around the frame tables while he innocently followed me--obliviously chatting while I tried to hide the furious pitching of my tent. Hahah!!!

I did not always write doleful verse, you know! For him I penned the following lyrics:
___________________

I am passion with a voice!
Oh, give to me your ear.
You...you shall be jewelry for my face
a sweet adornment to wear.
To love you (such pain) a pleasure is
(and I know what to give an ear...)

Forgive me, that I make a show,
for drunk am I with love and bliss.
Inebriate! And, too, you know
I've never worn such dress as this.
____________________

Do you know? Do you know?
Dearest, Oh! Do you know
that I love you—Oh, that I love?
Do you know?

Speak, O my love! Mercy and speak!
Love, sweet pity! have mercy and speak!
Your beautiful lips—they close on my world.
I beg at those gates for blessings of peace.
Sweet murmuring blessings...
Soft brushings...
Of peace.
_______________________

Alas...no sweet brushings of peace for me...

"Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life." (Proverbs 13:12)

Yes...yes...he was a pot-smokin', nose-ring wearin', tattoo sportin' bleached blond bad boy who knew Lao Tzu, and recommended that I read Desmond Morris' book the Naked Ape. We connected from the moment he boldly grabbed my gaze along with his firm handshake. He never stopped talking about sex and philosophy, except to occasionally make some crass comment about homosexuality, which would toss me over the brink into vast emptiness.

You see, he knew who I was, and I knew who he was. One long evening conversation on my porchstep with Nat Sherman cigarettes and revelations revealed what I thought was the source of our connection. He could never explain why he would say those terrible things, and love taught me that you can't let someone abuse you. I left that job and our passionate quarreling, but my unrequited love still bursts into flame now and then.

Place me like a seal over your heart,
like a seal on your arm;
for love is as strong as death,
its jealousy unyielding as the grave.
It burns like blazing fire,
like a mighty flame.

Many waters cannot quench love;
rivers cannot wash it away.
If one were to give
all the wealth of his house for love,
it would be utterly scorned.

(Song of Soloman 8:6-7)

Such are the lessons I have learned from Unrequited Love.

[SolApollo]

I agree with and also love each and everyone here in this forum. We are an online family and church. Love is so powerful...

To quote Celine Dion, "love can move mountains..."
From Moulin Rouge, "all you need is love!...Love lift us up where we belong."
Love conquers evil - love is the strongest force in the world - truly, I believe it. Love, if true and unconditional, can transform hatred into love.

Being in love is wonderful too. I wrote poetry to my ex-bf frequently. Ah, it was great, and I hope to fall in love w/ Mr. Right soon or whenever it happens.

Peace Out.

[Daniel]

I've been rehearsing the opera Semele by Handel, the famed gay composer, which may explain why this idea of all consuming love is on my mind. In the opera, Semele asks Jupiter to reveal himself to her in all his glory. He does. She dies. And the chorus sings:

Oh, terror and astonishment!
Nature to each allots his proper sphere,
But that forsaken we like meteors err:
Toss'd through the void, by some rude shock we're broke,
And all our boasted fire is lost in smoke.

I've been in the kind of love where the presence of my beloved (and it's interesting how, in the moment, 'my' is better termed 'the'- that which can not be possesed) was presaged with a palpable sensation of two sphere's of energy meeting in a blaze of energy- a veritable pillar of fire felt between bodies- interpenetrating flesh and bone- sounding out to the universe and back with the cry: this is all that ever was and is and shall be.

Living in that Presence? Well. It seems that's an entirely different matter.

[NathanATX]

Love is a choice, a commitment, an action, a decision... not only a feeling.

"You haven't done anything to earn my love and you couldn't do anything to make it stop." -MarQuis Hunt to his wife

[Daniel]

Love is a choice, a commitment, an action, a decision... not only a feeling.

Yes. I agree whole-heartedly with you.

Practices like the Jesus Prayer ( I was introduced to this practice by a friend who became a brother in the Orthodox Church) really do seem to address the matter in such terms: one practices getting the head down into the heart-as it were- 'thinking' with heart- from which the best choices and actions can then arise. Ancient monastic Christianity is not alone in this, the Tibetans have similar methods.

[marutidas]

My thoughts are this, I more than anyone here has contimplated Death.
Many see it as an abomination, to tear the ones they loved from them. They feel empty without that person, but think how much your life has been enrich by having the honor and priviledge to know them, even for a short time.
My response is this, What would Love mean, if Death was not there to deepen it. To make every moment more precious than gold and silver. For we know not when the end comes for us, so we hold on to our loved ones with all our might, secretly hoping againts hope that it never ends.
Love also means for me that you feel for the loss of others, even for people you will never meet. To never be indifferent to suffering, to shed tears for, to laugh with, to live with all your Heart for your fellow being. Living in the shared burden of Transcient existece.
My thoughts on Unrequited Love are,
Life is to short to wonder "what if". The true sting is not if we are rejected by the object of our affection, true torment lies in not knowing.

Our Heart, Our soul, truely shines in the presence of Love, but when Love is lost we become cold and shut ourselves off from the pain and hurt and the possiblity of being hurt agian. I weep with all my heart for a being, that has forgotten how to Love.
Those who fear Love, Fear Life, and those who fear Life are already 3/4 dead.

As for myself, the only thing I fear about Death is that I will not find someone to Love with all my heart, someone for I could bear the deepest recesses of my Soul too, before the end.
A secret selfishness that I bear, for I have seen True Love, in the eyes of others, and feel the emptiness my heart. A hole that could only be filled by the Love another. I fear being forgotten.

I speak like this not because I am soon to die, But because no one knows when Death comes for them.

..."She draws them close...From the darkness I hear the beating of mighty wings...
Why do they fear the sunless lands? It is as natural to die as it is to be born, but they fear her. Dread her. Feebly they attempt to placate her. They do not Love her".
Dream of the Endless, talking about his sister, Death of the Endless, from the Sandman by Neil Gaiman.

By the Contemplation of Death, I have truely learned the Fruits of Love.

[Vanessa White]

I first, have to say, as many of you have, how much love I have for all of you. Love that comes from a deep place in my soul of connection, and human kindness, giving, and sharing. Some of the core values of my being are also embodied in all of you, and it reflects back to me. Thank you for that. :love: :love: :love: :love: Next, I have to say, to my darling Dash, if I were male, gay or not, I would definitely fall madly, deeply, passionately in love with you. You are such a pure soul, and your words just make me drop my jaw as I sit here alone in the dark and read your posts. I hope that I do get to meet you in person someday, just to be able to give you a huge, warm embrace.

Love, love, love (All You Need is Love- my beloved Beatles). I have to agree with Dash as well, although i have not downloaded various versions of the tune, I did hear Unchained Melody last weekend on the radio for the first time in years. It brought me to tears, because it speaks to where my heart and head are in relation to love right now. I am very philosophical about love right now, what it all means, what is in store for me next, how it will show itself to me, how long do I have to wait (I tend to be impatient about things like that). What I know deeply about myself, is that no matter how many times I have been hurt because of romantic love, or had my heart broken, I know that I crave the bigger hit of love the next time- Even though I don't want to be hurt again, I cannot turn from it- I am drawn to the idea of it, including romantic visions of what may be. I envision what I like to call "Full body slam love"- two souls so closely connected to one another, it is like two hand palms being face to face with one another. And, yet, two hands side by side one another, with only the thumbs touching. Together, as intimately as can be, yet separate beings as well. Today, I have counted the many blessings of love that I have had, and now have in my life. I am truly grateful. I may not have romantic love in my life right now, but when I do, I believe it will be so overwhelming and intense that I cannot imagine it even now. Love to you all, V.:love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[marutidas]

True love is a durable fire,
In the mind ever burning,
Never sick, never dead, never cold,
From itself never turning.

From an anonymous poem of the 16th. Cent.

If I should think of love
I'd think of you, your arms uplifted,
Tying your hair in plaits above,
The lyre shape of your arms and shoulders,
The soft curve of your winding head.
No melody is sweeter, nor could Orpheus
So have bewitched. I think of this,
And all my universe becomes perfection.
But were you in my arms, dear love,
The happiness would take my breath away,
No thought could match that ecstasy,
No song encompass it, no other worlds.
If I should think of love,
I'd think of you.

A sonnet from William Shakespeare, enjoy

[Vanessa White]

The absolute beauty of words, speaking about love, overwhelms me. Thank you, all. :love:

[Dash]

You all are great! I have loved reading everything here! :love:

[marutidas]

Love that comes from a deep place in my soul of connection, and human kindness, giving, and sharing. Some of the core values of my being are also embodied in all of you, and it reflects back to me.

Is Love accepting the relfection we are shown, revealing how beautiful we can truely be? And is Hate, the denial of such reflection and denying that such beauty can live in another?

People who are filled with hate for a long time, become accustom to it. It becomes like a second skin, comfortable in their bitterness and resentment.
And they don't know any other way to live.
I pitty them.

[Dash]

I woke up a week or so ago thinking about hands. Of all the power centers in our body, they seem to me to be the most "directional." (The eyes are another element that focuses and directs our spirit.)

Holding hands with the one you love (a simple thing that is essentially denied gay people in most public places) joins our spirits in a powerful exchange of love. Touch your lover or your friend, and like the woman grasping Jesus' garment, power flows between the two of you.

I had a dream not too long ago, where my friend (and occasional object of my eternal unrequite) reached over to my chair and held my hand...hidden behind the armrest where none could see. I heard the German words, "Gib mir die Hand, dass ich sie heimlich drükke." (Give me your hand, that I may secretly hold it. ~from the song "Allerseelen.") I immediately awoke in a blissful state as if he had just then expressed all I most desired to hear. Ahhh love... Even far from me, it causes me to smile. :love:

[Once when recounting such a dream of love to my dear pastor and counselor, I said, "I feel sad that it didn't actually happen."

"Oh, but that's not true!" She replied quickly...looking intently into my eyes. "It did happen. It happened within you."]

* * *

Now...

Take your hands and stretch them out in front of you, palm up...tilted perhaps a little toward yourself. Now look out onto the world and feel your supplication shift the flow toward yourself. You are for the moment, humble and needy. Sense the child pleading inside. You become the valley toward which all waters flow. In such a posture, all that you need will surely find you.

Now...palms still up, tilt your hands more forward and away from you...perhaps spreading your arms a bit to open up the path to your heart. As you look again onto the world, feel all the beauty and love that you have inside flowing out to all in need. Now you have become the blessed hill from which healing streams descend.

My hands taught me this lesson before I hauled myself off to work, and I realized in a flash how wrong I had been before in a thread began by our beloved Bishop, whose presence is sorely missed:

Somewhere along the way, [Unchained Melody] became my hymn to God... God's hymn to me... It is our cry for our husbands and wives... It is our cry for the love of our Church, and our families... our cry for the love of our brothers and sisters...

God speed it to us. :'(

See...I had been thinking how much I desire the love of those who oppose us...

Hello!!! They don't have any of that to give me or us! There is no point in adopting a suppliant posture toward those who do not have the wealth I seek. That is not to say anti-gay Christians or people are incapable of love...just that they don't have it for us...despite what they say or think on that matter. We can really only present ourselves as supplicants to those actually have a wealth that can meet our needs, whether it is the Divine Spirit, or Wisdom, or Truth, or...authentic Love.

If the suppliant posture is not appropriate toward our opponents, who have nothing we desire, can the benevolent posture replace it? Is it appropriate to adopt a posture of beneficence--offering treasures from the wealth of our abundant love for each other toward those who have no taste for it? Instead of seeking our rights in the world, and the world's acceptance, is it that we have what they need, and we must give it to them?

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

[Daniel]

See...I had been thinking how much I desire the love of those who oppose us...

Hello!!! They don't have any of that to give me or us! There is no point in adopting a suppliant posture toward those who do not have the wealth I seek. That is not to say anti-gay Christians or people are incapable of love...just that they don't have it for us...despite what they say or think on that matter. We can really only present ourselves as supplicants to those actually have a wealth that can meet our needs, whether it is the Divine Spirit, or Wisdom, or Truth, or...authentic Love.

If the suppliant posture is not appropriate toward our opponents, who have nothing we desire, can the benevolent posture replace it? Is it appropriate to adopt a posture of beneficence--offering treasures from the wealth of our abundant love for each other toward those who have no taste for it? Instead of seeking our rights in the world, and the world's acceptance, is it that we have what they need, and we must give it to them?

Dash- Hands down- an amazing post! You touch on something that I think about a lot- that is- the nature of love itself- and it's meaning. I have thought more and more that love isn't something that can be given or gotten- as it were- a commodity- a thing- an object- given by objects to other objects. This may sound like some weird esoteric ramblings perhaps, but I have the sense that love- whatever it is- is summoned or sparked into being by the focus of one's desire/longing/intention and mirrored in the presence of an Other. I wonder if we fool ourselves by thinking we are getting something from over there- the trickery of mind perhaps- which cannot easily intuit what is, and isn't, of real Substance.

Perhaps we must dig our wells deep so that they never run dry and teach others to do the same. It's all the same water though, no matter where it bubbles up. That's how I see it. 'Your' water. 'My' water. "My' love. "Your" love. Take the ego out of it and what do you have?

Water.

Bottle it and put a label on it. It's still water.

I know. I know. By making it water, I've turned it into an object.

Sigh.

That's the problem with duality.

Then there is the gnostic thought (horrors!) which states that "You can't give what you don't have."

Yes. I know. The word 'have' sounds transactional.

Sigh.

Another duality problem.

Maybe one can figure this out by listening to the sound of a non-dripping faucet.

[Vanessa White]

I have thought on this before, Dash, about whether or not we do have something, in the love that we share in couples and community, that they do not have. Is that part of the anger, disgust, negative, hostile attitude with which many of them treat us? Do we represent to them something that they lack, therefore in a way, resenting us for having it? I do know that much about human behavior, in what angers or upsets people. Often times, throughout my current process of grief and sadness over my relationship coming to an end, my ending of it, the persons that offer me the least amount of support and encouragement are most often those persons who find themselves wishing that they were doing the same thing- ending a relationship that has long been over. Possibly the same reason that many persons, before they come to terms with their own LGBT orientation, express themselves as some of our biggest enemies, and seem to have such loathing for gay persons. I also know, that when I first started to really, COME OUT, I mean, really feel good about it when I would tell someone, whether friend or family member, the more purely that declaration came from deep in my soul, the less that they could appear to be uncomfortable with it. I mean, there are not many human beings that don't want that love, embrace, connection with someone. It helps us all to feel whole, connected, real. And, your hands, Dash- thank you for that. Hands and eyes are what many of my images are about, when I think about connecting and healing and sending energy one person to another. It makes so much sense! Thank you, with love and peace, Vanessa:love: :love:

[Dash]

Daniel...Vanessa...you gave me a thought...

Our Love is without meaning in their world of answers;
It gives no explanation for Itself or Its coming;
It submits to no test, suffers no condemnation
and offers no advice for Its beneficiaries.

It is not procreative and ties no lines of blood;
It scorns the approval of parents and state;
It is born before sacrament and without oath
and asks no blessing but the one It gives.

Our Love eludes their laws and steals us away
for Its own sake--sealing us in Its vaults
as Its treasure and private consolation.

It makes Its way like a vagabond prince
with neither country nor crown nor army,
yet who can subdue It or call It to account?

[Vanessa White]

That says it all. Thanks.:love:

[Dash]

Here's something I read this morning. (Thanks to Daniel for introducing me to Rumi)

Gamble everything for love,
if you're a true human being.

If not, leave
this gathering.

Half-heartedness doesn't reach
into majesty. You set out
to find God, but then you keep
stopping for long periods
at mean-spirited roadhouses.

~Rumi

[ladyinred]

All I can say is I am truly inspired by you all.

[ladyinred]

I wanted to include a more recent picture of me on this forum, nothing is going right tonight, I hope this works though.:pray:

[Jennifer5]

Welcome Ladyinred, I've noticed you've been around here a lot but unfortunately I haven't had a chance to go through and read many of your posts... but from what I can see you fit in really well with this group. Glad you found us!:)

[ladyinred]

I wanted to say thanks for the warm welcome ,as I read many of these posts. I'm beginning to figure something out. The more you are around loving people, the more they inspire you, it's like a light shining through the darkness, they bring out the best in you instead of the worst. I have alot to learn as well in this area. As I've struggled through my own relationships. With so much negativity in the world around us, it is always an inspiration to see people who promote and support the positive in humanity and are more focused on bringing more love, compassion and understanding into the world rather than promoting more hatred and violence and divisiveness. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me and for making me feel like I have something to contribute as well.

[AZBear]

May I join in? I've been reading the posts here and am just blown away by the authenticity and wholeness you all personify. The love you all evince is something I'm not really used to dealing with, so I'll probably just be a sideline observer with maybe an occasional post, at least until I get a better sense of how this all works out (I'm a newbie--only been a member for a couple of weeks--and Zerbie is probably the only one here who has been in correspondence with me).

I hope it doesn't come across as mindless sycophancy, but I'm absolutely enthralled by Dash's intellect and ability to express himself in words that resonate so deeply inside me. Keep it up, Dash--you've got a big fan in Southern Illinois.

[Jennifer5]

May I join in? I've been reading the posts here and am just blown away by the authenticity and wholeness you all personify. The love you all evince is something I'm not really used to dealing with, so I'll probably just be a sideline observer with maybe an occasional post, at least until I get a better sense of how this all works out (I'm a newbie--only been a member for a couple of weeks--and Zerbie is probably the only one here who has been in correspondence with me).

I hope it doesn't come across as mindless sycophancy, but I'm absolutely enthralled by Dash's intellect and ability to express himself in words that resonate so deeply inside me. Keep it up, Dash--you've got a big fan in Southern Illinois.

Welcome! Of course you can join in! Glad to have you here!


Dash, everyone is impressed.... good job:love:

[Dash]

You guys are sweet, and I'm touched. However, I always feel like there is something that moves between and among all of us here. Sometimes it "talks" through me, but just as often, it's not with me but with one of you others (lately been kind of silent on my side). I can't tell you how many times I've been stunned by the brilliance of a post or the beauty of a thought that came from one of my dears here. I feel like my participation here opens me up "more often" to the possibility of having something to share, and I hope AZBear that you don't feel any hesitancy about jumping in. Glad to have you.

There have been a lot of new folks here lately and I'm tremendously excited about that. "Ladyinred" was commenting in the last day or so about the love that is expressed here, and it made me think again how different this community is from so many online forums we see. The love we find and share here makes this place a home, a refuge, a family, and an incredibly energizing place. The love that I've seen here is transforming...especially when we come limping in from the angry outside world or other crueler religious discussions.

[Jennifer5]

Dash while you say it's the group... it's hard to image you as anything but sweet. You seem like one of those rare ones who lives a very humble life, and just enjoy the things that really matter.:love:

[Zerbie]

It truly is special - I've never, NEVER before encountered an online forum anything like this. The kindness and mutual caring expressed here is indeed it's unique quality and gift.

This community is creating - is being - the community I always dreamed of. . . I used to spend hours writing poems about what "the beautiful people" would be like. I have grown sooooo much from "hanging out with" all of my friends here. I am better person for knowing each of you. For that, thank you all. :love: :love: :love:

AZBear, we're ALL glad to have you, so please jump right in whenever you feel like it. :aparty:

[AZBear]

Thanks to all of you for your warm welcome. As a first discussion post here, let me offer up a little reflection. I hope it's not too far off-topic.

In my experience, love extended to others is like the knowledge that a teacher shares with his or her students. At the end of the class, the teacher still retains the knowledge and the students have gained the knowledge as well.

Love, then, is like the teacher's knowledge in that it should be freely shared, but not given away at one's own expense. The more you share the love you have inside of you, the more love you will gain in return. But in order to be capable of sharing your love with others you must first know and love yourself, be happy and complete.

The best advice I offer friends is always thus: Your life, as well as the lives of those you love, is happening in the here and now. Your life today is not a dress rehearsal for another life you will have later...Live it with love now. :love:

[Vanessa White]

Welcome, welcome, AZBear and Ladyinred. So glad that you have joined us. And, I am so glad that this thread got bumped up. It was one of many that elicited such profound inspiration in me. I agree with all of you about darling Dash, and also agree with Dash about something he has said here. Confused yet? Dash does have a deep, profound way to express himself emotionally and intellectually, and evokes it here with such beauty. I love him for that of many things. In addition, I agree with Dash when he says about those words coming from the inspiration he draws from others here on this forum. For a newcomer, the intensity of the experience has to be almost unbelievable and overwhelming- it was for me when I first got here. Now, all of those months later, I understand the full impact that we all have on one another. I communicate here like no place else. I feel more inspiration to find the words of my heart that I rarely have the opportunity, or take the opportunity, to express with any other group of people. Love, love, love- it is here among all of us. Thank God for a place for all of us like souls to come and take rest...........:love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[AZBear]

I completely agree. Especially about the way Dash has of expressing himself so eloquently. But I've not seen any of his posts in the last few days--hope all is well with him. Since I live in downstate Illinois I'm hopeful that someday on one of my shopping trips to Chicago I'll have an opportunity to meet and thank him in person.

That's not to say, though, that the rest of you aren't of the same calibre. In reading through discussions throughout the community, I'm just blown away by the insightful analysis and commentary offered by so many on such varied topics. I wish I had discovered this site a long time ago so that I'd have a little more background on all the discussions, but I'm trying hard to get up to speed.

[Dash]

Stop it! Y'all 'er makin' me blush! :o Hahah!!

I'm a busy cowboy, and it just got busier this week with a new opera gig. Plus...completely out of the blue, I lined up a date for this weekend. I'm excited! Haven't been out in...well...months. :rolleyes: I guess the tides of cynicism must be receeding since the last time. :lol:

[Zerbie]

Dash has a date!!!!!!! :D :weee: :weee: :weee: :rainbow:

I just squealed with excitement when I heard about your upcoming date!

You are such an exceptional soul Dash - I wish the most marvellous of friendships and loves for you.

Keep us posted. . .:love:

[Jennifer5]

Yes do keep us posted!!!! :weee: Want to know all about it!

[AZBear]

Sorry, Dash. Didn't mean to bring on a blush. But you do write exceptionally well. And if your singing is anywhere near as good as your writing, I'd expect you to someday give the famous Three Tenors a run for the money! Hope everything goes great on the date. Let us know...

[Vanessa White]

Talk about the contemplation of love- at least, contemplating the possibilities of love again, someday. So great for you!!! Have fun, and adventure, and let us know how it goes. I won't apologize for bringing on a blush, because you deserve every sweet word..... BTW, I think I squealed, too, Zerb!!

[Dash]

A lovely prayer for union from a tenth Century Greek Office Of Same-Sex Union--taken from the appendix of The Marriage of Likeness: Same-sex Unions in Pre-modern Europe by John Boswell:

Splendid to us and much sought after is the sweet smell of love, established in the time of the patriarchs, guided by the voices of the prophets, and sanctified by the preaching of the apostles: because of all beautiful things of the earth love is the most excellent. Abraham our forefather brought love to perfection under the oak of Mamre, and accepting the rule of love believed in God and was reckoned among the just; and he obtained for himself an heir of love in blessedness--his firstborn son Isaac, the pledge of faith, the incense of sacrifice, the portent of the Savior, the successor of justice, the father of many peoples and the foundation of the church. Do Thou now, Lord God, grant also to these thy servant, N. and N., the love and peace of thy holy apostles, which Thou hast bestowed on them, saying, "My peace I give you and I leave you my peace." It was love itself that gathered the holy apostles through brotherly love into the cheerful haven of the church. It was love that taught thy holy martyrs the patience to bear their sufferings during tribulation so they might inherit the unfading crown of eternal glory; love it was that allowed the prophets to fulfill their angelic service; love was the forerunner of the Savior, performing its services to all the holy; love offered as a sacrifice before God its own children--those who cherish brotherly love, who for God's sake extend charity to the poor, which they receive back ten thousandfold from Christ.

It is through love that we glorify God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has called us together from different places to come and see the treasury of love, which all the saints have desired and embraced as an unfading crown, and brought to God as a worthy gift. Yearning for this love Abel brought to God the firstborn of his lambs; yearning for this love Enoch the scribe pleased God with his justice; love strengthened the faith of Abraham so that he could prepare a welcome for the angels; love saved Lot from the inhabitants of Sodom; yearning for this love, Abraham offered his only son to God as a sacrifice. Yearning for this same love, the most wise Jacob inherited the blessing of Esau; love rescued Daniel from the lions' den; love caused Elijah to be taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire; and love saved Elishah on the mountain. Yearning for this love the three holy children were preserved from the fire in the furnace and offered a hymn of praise to God. And it is through love that we all come to know Thee as the God of all; servants the master, the mortal the immortal, those in time the eternal, those on earth the celestial. We do not enjoin, but implore. We pray to Him and He hears our prayers. Thou hast said, Lord, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

We, therefore, kind Lord, mindful of the holy commands of thine awesome and glorious covenant, knock on earth: open to us in heaven. Vouchsafe unto us a share of faith and love with all thy holy angels. Send to us, for us, that angel who guided Abraham, who was Isaac's captain, Jacob's companion, the waker of Lazarus, who came to the house of Zacchaeus the tax collector and said to him, "This day is salvation come to this house." For where there is love hatred does not rule, demons have no power, there is not sin. For there are these three things--faith, hope, and the greatest of all, love.

Wonderful and much longed for is the sweet smell of love. On earth it sows the seeds of piety and in heaven it gathers the sheaves of justice. "He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth forever." Turn thy holy ear to the prayer we raise to Thee, for Thou art the provider of all good things and the savior of our souls, and to Thee is endless glory, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Most people are completely unaware that same-sex marriages were ever a part of Church tradition. The early liturgies resembled opposite-sex marriage ceremonies in almost every way.

Anyway...for those who feel the scorn of the modern Church, it is nice to remember that she did not always despise our love, but for a thousand years or more actually celebrated it.:love:

[Daniel]

I'm a busy cowboy, and it just got busier this week with a new opera gig. Plus...completely out of the blue, I lined up a date for this weekend.

Ok. We all want to know. How did the OPERA go? :D

[Dash]

Well...the datey-date-date went fine. Actually, I had a great time! He was lovely in the extreme, and we had an easy time chatting together. I was a little swooney in the head with him...dark hispanic sweetie.

Alas...my hope that it might recur is fading somewhat.

Sigh...but then in these matters I am really rather inexperienced, and easily swayed between hope and cynicism.

Nonetheless, it was quite wonderful to be out with someone so agreeable. :love:

[Vanessa White]

I am glad that it went well for you, and if you are anything like me, swooning is often quite hard to avoid. I hope that if it is a good thing for your life, that you will see him again and it will go well. Your true love will find you Dash- no worries on that. And he will be blessed for it. Stay up and true to that beautiful person that you are..... peace, Vanessa:love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[AZBear]

Well...the datey-date-date went fine. Actually, I had a great time! He was lovely in the extreme, and we had an easy time chatting together. I was a little swooney in the head with him...dark hispanic sweetie.

Alas...my hope that it might recur is fading somewhat.

Sigh...but then in these matters I am really rather inexperienced, and easily swayed between hope and cynicism.

Nonetheless, it was quite wonderful to be out with someone so agreeable. :love:

Good to hear that your date went fine. I'm sorry for you, though, that the prospects for a recurrance may not be the best, at least not just now. If it's what you really want, though, maybe something will yet work out between you and him. :rainbow:

I know only too well of what you speak when you talk of bouncing back and forth between the poles of hope and cynicism. My own recent experiences with someone who is very special to me have had much the same effect on me.

Some might find it hard to believe that someone of my tender age could experience these feelings, but sometimes I get so disheartened over the prospects for finding my one true love--someone that I can build a life with--that the idea of entering a monastery (anyway, some kind of closed community) and leaving the world behind is alluring. But in my more rational moments I know that, wherever the path leads, I must struggle on in pursuit of my dream of loving and being loved in return by someone who is just as broken and needful as I am.

So hang in there, Dash. We all love you. We'll celebrate the good times with you, and will be here to offer comfort and understanding on those days when things somehow just won't go right. :love: :cowboy: :love: :cowboy: :love: :cowboy: :love:

[Zerbie]

Aw, Dash I'm happy to hear that you had a great time!!!!!! Dating is tricky - maybe there WILL be a second date after all? You are such a romantic, passionate, educated, caring, awesome person that some incredibly lucky person is going to snap you up one o' these days, and I'll be mighty surprised if it isn't SOON!

AZBear - you never know when love is going to hit you upside the head. It has a way of happening when you don't expect it. Just keep up with life - working, socializing, finding pursuits to get involved in, and suddenly - BLAM! You meet someone. Happens all the time.

Best wishes to BOTH o' ya! :love: :love:

[AZBear]

Thanks, Zerbie. You're a love. But if I'm gonna get hit upside the head, I'd rather have it happen sooner instead of later. Don't mean to come across as overly negative, but I feel the digits on the 'ol age counter clicking over faster each year and I'd really like to have some time to enjoy being with someone before I'm so old and senescent I don't even know I'm enjoying myself. :love: :flower2: :love:

[Dash]

...imagine that...:rolleyes:

Can't believe I never posted these verses in this thread! From the Song of Solomon, Chapter 8.

Place me like a seal over your heart,
like a seal on your arm;
for love is as strong as death,
its jealousy unyielding as the grave.
It burns like blazing fire,
like a mighty flame.

Many waters cannot quench love;
rivers cannot wash it away.
If one were to give
all the wealth of his house for love,
it would be utterly scorned.

There are many who set themselves against Love these days. Is it any wonder that gay people resist so fervently when our conservative brothers and sisters speak so disparagingly of our love? Hahah! Yes! We utterly scorn the thought of giving it up! And, yes, it is a mighty, blazing fire that will not yield to those who pour their cold water on it. Those who set themselves against love, set themselves against something that is as strong and implacable as death.

Take hold of love my Soulforcy friends. Cling to it like a life preserver in these rough waters. Hold on to love like the rope that guides you across a windy chasm. Grasp it tightly like the one friendly hand in a land of strangers.

:love:

[Dash]

Oh ya! By the way...that was Chapter 8, verses 6 and 7 of Solomon's erotic little canticle.

And this jealous, blazing "love"? That's "agape" in the Septuagint.
(http://septuagint.org/LXX/SongofSongs/SongofSongs8.html)

When the Jews made the first translation of their scriptures into Greek, they used "agape" quite a bit in this book.

Interesting, eh?...considering the much-abbreviated definition that "agape" has been given by the Church since then.

[Jennifer5]

Place me like a seal over your heart,
like a seal on your arm;
for love is as strong as death,
its jealousy unyielding as the grave.
It burns like blazing fire,
like a mighty flame.

Many waters cannot quench love;
rivers cannot wash it away.
If one were to give
all the wealth of his house for love,
it would be utterly scorned.

There are many who set themselves against Love these days. Is it any wonder that gay people resist so fervently when our conservative brothers and sisters speak so disparagingly of our love? Hahah! Yes! We utterly scorn the thought of giving it up! And, yes, it is a mighty, blazing fire that will not yield to those who pour their cold water on it. Those who set themselves against love, set themselves against something that is as strong and implacable as death.

Take hold of love my Soulforcy friends. Cling to it like a life preserver in these rough waters. Hold on to love like the rope that guides you across a windy chasm. Grasp it tightly like the one friendly hand in a land of strangers.

:love:
Dash, where do these words come from, you're amazing, you speak from the heart and it shows... I really hope to get to meet you in person someday!:love:

[Dash]

Dash, where do these words come from, you're amazing, you speak from the heart and it shows... I really hope to get to meet you in person someday!:love:

Well, darlin', I certainly hope to meet you too! I...I think I've mentioned this to others, but truth is I think I'd be a bit nervous to meet y'all in person. Hahah!! I'm not quite sure I'd know what to say if it wasn't typed into a little white rectangle on a blue background! And, how am I supposed to communicate with everybody without :love: and :rolleyes: and :p and :flower: and :inspector: and :weee: . I don't know if it can be done...

:lol:

[Jennifer5]

Well, darlin', I certainly hope to meet you too! I...I think I've mentioned this to others, but truth is I think I'd be a bit nervous to meet y'all in person. Hahah!! I'm not quite sure I'd know what to say if it wasn't typed into a little white rectangle on a blue background! And, how am I supposed to communicate with everybody without :love: and :rolleyes: and :p and :flower: and :inspector: and :weee: . I don't know if it can be done...

:lol:
I don't know about that Dash... in person you could actually hug the person if they're having a really hard time, and actually have expressions...lol... I bet you could do it...

[Dash]

Or...I could just print all of our smileys on little signs! :D Then, I'd just hold one up when I needed it! That'd be awesome! hahahah!!!

Hee hee! :laughing: :magic:

[Jennifer5]

Or...I could just print all of our smileys on little signs! :D Then, I'd just hold one up when I needed it! That'd be awesome! hahahah!!!

Hee hee! :laughing: :magic:

That would definately make for an interesting conversation.:lol:

[Vanessa White]

Oh, my, will the love abound!!!!!!:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: I think that where the words will fail me, I will resort to hugging and never wanting to let go!!! Here, in this safe haven community, I am able to express myself like no where else in my life. And I agree, no water can extinquish the flames of the love that runs through all of us here. It is an eternal flame, for one another, for the soulmates we have yet to meet, for all who join hands with us and want to walk the journey........

"Love is real
Real is love
Love is needing
needing love
love is wanting
to be loved." My beloved John Lennon

[Zerbie]

oh yeah, me too! (me three? Me . . . four???)

I would definitely hug y'all. . . but beyond that, I'd probably be totally wordless without these: :D :p :lol: :love: :love: :love:

I hope I get to meet all y'all in person someday, too - Jen, Dash, Vanessa. . . and the rest of our happy gang. :)

Y'all wouldn't know this because you don't see me 3D, but I'm just certain I've become a more loving person since I joined this forum. Thanks, and thank you darling Dash for this thread. :love:

Next week our campaign (remember the AZ campaign against the amendment?) is having a victory party. I bet it won't be as exciting as the night we watched the votes roll in - that night, everybody hugged everybody - we were just grabbing strangers and hugging each other! It was pretty amazing! Just last week I was introduced to a guy who I remembered from election night and I said, "Oh yeah, we've met, we hugged each other on election night." :lol:

Anyway, I imagine meeting all of you would be kind of like that. Man! We couldn't arrange something, I mean, could we? We're dealing with PA, AZ, WA, IL, TX, FL, CA. . . on and on it goes. . . rats. . . I guess we hafta stick to these: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[Jennifer5]

Yeah, for now Soulforce keeps us all together, and slowly some of us will meet... I've met a few from the forums... but I think the chances of getting us all in the same place at the same time is not likely.

Actually does anyone know... is there a Focus on the Family thing again in 2007? I thought that one of the Soulforce updates said that there was, but I either didn't read through that e-mail, or it didn't give much information or something I don't know... but it takes so long for me to actually manage and try and figure it our that I would really have to start thinking about it already... this year I can't depend on convincing a church into paying and unless I can find someone I know from here, I have no one ot take me either.. but don't want to miss an event if there still doing that.:)

[AZBear]

I'm really delighted at the outcome of the marriage amendment fight in Arizona. [Thank you, Zerbie, for all your efforts in support of this issue. :applause: ] As Zerbie already knows, I"m planning to relocate to the Phoenix area in the summer of 2007 (when I finish my Ph.D. program) to be with my new soulmate and partner, Rick, who lives and works there. (WOW! Talk about a whirlwind romance with a wonderful man! :love: :love: Learning to love again is like learning to live all over again.) Both Rick and I feel it's very important to be able to publicly proclaim and celebrate the love and commitment we feel for each other, so as Arizona becomes more hospitable to relationships such as ours and the celebrations they give rise to, we'll feel twice blessed. :flower: :flower2:

So it looks like Zerbie, Rick and I will get to meet and be neighbors! But I'm not despairing of ever meeting all the rest of you...it may just take a bit longer. Thinking about it, Phoenix might not be a bad idea as a vacation destination for any of you... :) :) :) We'll leave the porch light on for you.

Dash? Jennifer? Vanessa?

Love and hugs to all of you!
Gerry

[Daniel]

Gerry- your words- "Learning to love again is like learning to live all over again"- brought these to mind.

"Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it. If a man were to give all his wealth for love, it would be utterly scorned." Song of Solomon 8:7

Being partial to the choral setting by Brahm's, that's the one I have in my head at the moment. I'd sing the tune,:sing: but we're in cyberland.

[Zerbie]

:D :D :D :D :D


See, Arizona ain't SO bad!

(But do keep a close watch on our opponents in case they bring the amendment back in 2008 or some crap like that. :sick: )


Congrats, Gerry and Rick!!!! (new neighbors, won't that be cool?) :)

[AZBear]

Well, Zerbie, at least you'll have two more highly motivated guys around who will be anxious to lend a hand so we can give those troglodytes another thumpin', as "W" so eloquently put it. :D :D

[Vanessa White]

Has anyone else here ever felt like your capacity for love of another is so intense, so pure, that it scares many people away? I am really starting to feel that way. I stand in my truth, trusting that God is guiding me in the best direction, feeling firm and assured in my own, pure, sweet ability to give and to receive love. Then, I wait. I have come to be okay with the waiting, but sometimes I feel kind of like a freak with how pure that love feels within me, and that I am willing to face it, and to share it with someone else, without fear. So many of us are so afraid, afraid of that pure love.

Are there really other people out there, who are as willing as I am to stand in the face of that pure love, in order to feel the full impact and magic and wonder of it?

Help me with your loving words of wisdom, friends. :unhappy: :pray:

[tpdncr4christ]

Has anyone else here ever felt like your capacity for love of another is so intense, so pure, that it scares many people away? I am really starting to feel that way. I stand in my truth, trusting that God is guiding me in the best direction, feeling firm and assured in my own, pure, sweet ability to give and to receive love. Then, I wait. I have come to be okay with the waiting, but sometimes I feel kind of like a freak with how pure that love feels within me, and that I am willing to face it, and to share it with someone else, without fear. So many of us are so afraid, afraid of that pure love.

Are there really other people out there, who are as willing as I am to stand in the face of that pure love, in order to feel the full impact and magic and wonder of it?

Help me with your loving words of wisdom, friends. :unhappy: :pray:

I don't know if you read the poem, but I wrote something about masks. This is what I am talking about. Its scary, but amazing. When you take off your mask you leave yourself out in the world, to be judged and to be hurt, but also to be loved. And if you have a stronger inclination to only love people, you will receive only love in return. :love: People don't get it because they still have their mask on, they are still protected from these feelings.

I find it funny how so many people laugh at a child when the child says "I love you." The grown ups think it is because the child doesn't know what love is. In fact, kids know love better than any one, because they don't have on a mask. Your mask is your heart and mind protecting themselves from these raw emotions, and as we get older, the mask gets thicker and more complex. Adults find they feel love when the meet the one, because it is someone they can take there mask off to. That's what you are feeling. And you are waiting for someone to walk by and share that pure love with you. It will happen, eventually.

And besides, your face is usually much more beautiful when there is no mask.

[Vanessa White]

I get that, a mask. Maybe because I am a parent of a young child, is why I have less tendency to wear the mask, and I believe that my child gets it. She knows what pure love is. The thing is, I think I have always gone through life without the mask for the most part. Talk about vulnerability. People tell me how much they admire my courage, at making sweeping changes in my life in order to pursue love that is meant to be, yet they cannot fathom it for themselves, because of that fear. And, that is what I always get in trouble over in the relationships I pursue. I see the potential in people, rather than what they are willing to honestly show, and then, they never live up to their own potential, so they keep the mask on in the relationship. I need to meet someone who is willing to keep that mask off most of the time, at least. I am discouraged......

[tpdncr4christ]

I am discouraged......

Mathew 11:28-30: "Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

Give it to Jesus. He is cool like that. Have you ever hear the story of the footprints?


A man lives his life, and he remember's his life as footprints in the sand. As he reflects on his life he notices another pair of footprints join his own.

The man turns to God and asks what this was. God says, "This is when you found Me."

As he goes along, the footprints get weaker, then thy grow sparse, and soon one pair has dissapered all together. He turns to God, puzzled, "Did you leave me Lord?"

"No, this is when I carried you."

As they walk further along the sand, they see the footprints grow deeper and farther apart, then they loose direction, deep grooves left in the sand. The man turns to God and asks, "What happened here Lord?"

The Lord replies, "This, is when we were dancing."

My point with the story and the verse is to give up all of your problems to the Lord. Hand Him your yoke. He will take it gladly. And if it gets too rough, and you think He has left you, you will realize that the Lord is carying you through your hardship.

So just imagine yourself walking down a beach, no mask on your face. You are alone, but hundreds of people surround you. They all were masks, mishappen, inhuman, grotesque. Don't look at them. If you walk, holding hands with the Lord, they will make a path for you. And you will find someone, with out a mask, who will love you as you want to be loved. Will it happen today? or tomorrow? I don't know. Will it happen? I am sure of it.