Gay Church Organists

[keltic63]

OK, Daniel pointed out Mel's quote about gay organists in another thread: "If all the gay organists quit playing on Sunday morning," he said, "there would be silence in Christendom."

It got me thinking about the boycott that was discussed briefly in another thread. I thought about my church and what would happen if I decided to take a sunday off, unexpectedly, as a way of protesting treatment of lgbt people. I love my church, and I know they love me. I think there would be a negative backlash for me. I suspect that many other organists are in the same position. I would think (and hope) that a great many of us are no longer closeted. I would hope that we are accepted within our congregations, even if the denomination is not open and affirming.

Where is the disconnect? Why is it that many church-goers/christians accept their lgbt choir directors, organists, lay ministers, etc. but do not confront their leaders when the anti-lgbt rhetoric is flowing?

[Zerbie]

Great one Keltic!

I think it's probably the simple explanation: people are loathe to challenge authority.

[BruceChris]

I suspect that all too often, it breaks down to embracing inconsistancy, to avoid conflict or pain.

P&L, Bruce Chris

[Daniel]

I believe there is another level to this: economics.

Organists (I am married to one) are on the low rung of the ladder within the church. They are often the first to go when a new pastor is hired. The average salary is around 8,000.00 dollars. Not a big chunk of change, you might say, but the amount, unfortunately, reflects the value the church puts on its music-makers. And all too often, the church will ask that organist to work for free. (Professional musicians - singers more than organists- are smart to never join the church they serve. Once they do, they are often expected to sing or play for nothing.) To put it bluntly, organists are loath to stick their necks out. Why? As an already undervalued and often highly educated resource, they feel at risk because they are in the minority (read: gay as a goose), in a less than open environment, and afraid of losing the little that they have.

My husband was fired from three (Catholic) churches as a consequence of disclosing his sexuality. His current church (Episcopal) is officiated by 2 gay men- partners in life and love.

'Nice work if you can get it" (and you can get it if you try)

[Pablo Rafael]

Daniel, where do you live that organists make an average salary of $8000? Maybe I need to move. Most of the musicians in my area volunteer for free. I play guitar/organ/keyboard at my church (Catholic). All of us are free volunteers who do it to serve the Lord. I have noticed that there are a great many gay musicians in the church. It is generally a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. I have also always felt appreciated and loved, but never put upon (sometimes a little overworked in the time around Holy Week, however) Even though the Catholic church opposes homosexuality, I have never hear a condemnation of it from the pulpit. Maybe I have been in a more accepting environment that is typical; I don't know.

Pablo

[keltic63]

Daniel, where do you live that organists make an average salary of $8000? Maybe I need to move. Most of the musicians in my area volunteer for free. I play guitar/organ/keyboard at my church (Catholic). All of us are free volunteers who do it to serve the Lord. I have noticed that there are a great many gay musicians in the church. It is generally a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. I have also always felt appreciated and loved, but never put upon (sometimes a little overworked in the time around Holy Week, however) Even though the Catholic church opposes homosexuality, I have never hear a condemnation of it from the pulpit. Maybe I have been in a more accepting environment that is typical; I don't know.

Pablo

Pablo, I earn quite a bit more than $8000 at my part-time church organist/music director job. I'm in PA

[Daniel]

Daniel, where do you live that organists make an average salary of $8000? Maybe I need to move. Most of the musicians in my area volunteer for free. I play guitar/organ/keyboard at my church (Catholic). All of us are free volunteers who do it to serve the Lord. I have noticed that there are a great many gay musicians in the church. It is generally a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. I have also always felt appreciated and loved, but never put upon (sometimes a little overworked in the time around Holy Week, however) Even though the Catholic church opposes homosexuality, I have never hear a condemnation of it from the pulpit. Maybe I have been in a more accepting environment that is typical; I don't know.

Pablo

Urban areas have more opportunities of course. But then, because of the abundance of musicians, salaries can be lower in urban areas. There are churches in many areas of the country where salaries are much higher than the average (which reflects info from the AGO) and Keltic's situation is a case in point. It all depends on the church and how much music is valued there. Average, as they say, is average. One could serve in a large church in say Texas and do, comparatively speaking, very well. My own perception is that large swaths of the middle of the country are highly invested in music, but the theological outlook is often narrow and confining toward gay persons. Urban areas tend to be more liberal in this respect. (That's why gay people have moved to cities- but this- from what I read- may be changing.)

To contrast things somewhat, professional singers in church are paid around $100-125 per service (here in NYC). This amounts to, roughly, $4000 a year. Professional singers are usually found in urban churches that have an established endowment. In fact, the paid singer, as a feature of religious life in urban areas, goes back to well before the civil war here in America.

You are certainly right about 'don't ask don't tell'. This leaves the gay musician in the postion of being 'used' and never really being 'heard', if you know what I mean. This is why I believe we must have the right to marry. Until then, we we always be seen as less than and mere adornment, even though that adornment is much appreciated. The whole of the person, not just their gifts of music, is what at issue here.

[Pablo Rafael]

I didn't realize that there was so much discrepancy in organist pay in different areas of the country. In this area (southern Colorado) Catholic churches almost never pay anything (and are large congregations primarily composed of lower income parishoners). When I have played at the protestant churches, which are usually quite small, the pay is usually in the range of $30 - $40 per service. This area is rather economically depressed and also, unfortunately, not very musically sophisticated.

[Daniel]

Pablo- You put your finger on it: It really is about economics to a great extent, and how economics interfaces with religion and class. There is one thing to keep in mind though. While churches in urban areas may have higher salaries than rural areas, the cost of living there is also much higher.

[Anthonypaul2]

Hello Everyone.
My name is Anthony. I am new to this group/forum. This is my 1st post. :)
I cannot think of a more appropriate thread for me to speak in as I am a Gay Organist with a very active ministry. I have a unique view on this as I started my music ministry in 1990 at an MCC church in Sacramento, Ca. They had 3 services on Sunday. I started out just doing one then two every Sunday and sometimes was called to do all 3. NEVER GOT PAID. Volunteer. Only time I got money was when I Played for HOLY UNIONS. Im not upset about it, cause at that time I was still learning things and my playing needed some refinement. I was at that MCC for 4 years. The next church was a NON- Denominational gay pentecostal church in the SF Bay area, CA. I Was there for 12 years. I was only a 'paid' minister of music/organist for 4 of those 12 years. I started off getting $160.00 a month. Then as the church shrank in membership, they switched to giving me 5% of the tithes/ offering per month which averaged out to about $50 dollars per month!! :( In this church I was the music dept. Small church and I did everything and rarely missed a Sunday in all those years because I knew they would not have music if I took a Sunday off. They eventully Fired me because I spoke out when their was injustice and I dared to question the Pastor's Authority (it was a church that pretty much let the Pastor run everything, with almost ZERO accountability and the pastor had ZERO training to be Pastor ) It was like a monarchy. Next church (currently) a UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST and AMERICAN BAPTIST ---dual affiliation. Small church. This was culture shock as my background is from The ASSEMBLYS OF GOD church.. Even the MCC I went too was a conservative/Spirit filled MCC. Here I am in the heart of liberal Christianity!!When I went to them they needed a sub. Then from a Sub. to a 'interim' minister of music. I got $100.00 dollars per Sunday. Now here is a group of 25 people who really LOVE their music and believe in paying for it. Well, when they hired a permanent minister of music, they kept me on as ASSISTANT minister of music/organist. Now I get $50 dollars per Sunday. Organists for small churches are in short supply around here. Alot of churches around here have abandoned their organs. You basically have the churches with PIPE ORGANS, which have players and the "Pentecostal" churches who have their Hammonds. Those churches in-between that spectrum may or may not have organs anymore or dont use them. My current church is one of those in-between. We dont have a hammond or pipe organ. (Wurlitzer 4300 electronic) and until I came along, the church had nobody that could play it or wanted to play it. Since I have been their, they cant get enough of it. They love the Organ! Im sincere about my ministry and my walk with the Lord and I joined this UCC/ABC church last year! So Im a part of the congregation and a paid musician. Although my experience has been in conservative churches, I have learned so much in the liberal church. I have went from being a conservative,now considering myself "middle of the road" as I see another side of Christianity in God's Kingdom. So to the original issue of Gay organists in Churches that are NON- accepting churches, I cannot speak to as I have never done that, but I know a few out there who are doing it and yes, its pretty much "dont ask, dont tell". Keep your "gay lifestyle" [whatever that is, Im still trying to fingure out what this suposed 'gay lifestyle' is that we lead???] out of the church and never speak up and you'll keep your position. So glad I never had to go through that.
God Bless !

[Matt Algren]

(Professional musicians - singers more than organists- are smart to never join the church they serve. Once they do, they are often expected to sing or play for nothing.)Amen to that. Take off the 'professional' and you find the group I sing with. We go all over and are generally paid via offering or whatnot; there's no set price. At our home church? Haven't seen a dime.

And I'm going to make people hate me, but if I never heard another pipe organ it'd be too soon. Give me a good pianist any Sunday.

[Pablo Rafael]

Hello Everyone.
My name is Anthony. I am new to this group/forum. This is my 1st post. :)
I cannot think of a more appropriate thread for me to speak in as I am a Gay Organist with a very active ministry.

Hi Anthony,

I will take this opportunity to say hello. This thread was also the thread that I made my first post on back in 2006. See post earlier. That is where the whole thing started. (What was that groan I heard?)

As an organist I was interested to read about your experiences. I see the organ declining in use in churches. At least in my experience piano and guitar seems to be taking over. Nice organs well played are majestic instruments.

And ignore what Matt says above. We organists are on the top of the musical hierarchy, and he knows it. And if anyone wants to argue, I will just add more stops. We organists can always be louder than everyone else. :D

Always glad to welcome a new organist to the forums. Please stick around and let us know more about you.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

.............................
This thread seems a good place to post this update.
My recent experiences have been enlightening. I used to play in three churches, one Catholic and two LCMS Lutheran. Both of the Lutheran churches have gotten rid of me since I "came out". The reasoning being that the songs are the Word of God. I guess my being gay contaminates the music. I find this a real hypocrisy especially from the Lutherans who empasize so strongly that all have sinned and all are in need of the grace of God, no one is better than anyone else for it is the forgiveness and love of Christ that covers us all. I guess for this group of Lutherans, grace is an abstract concept that actually doesn't have any practical application. In all fairness I must say that the individual congregational members have been supportive, but the pastors and their families have been the problem. And like Anthony said also, the pastor seems to have total control in these churches. I was going to play last weekend when a guest pastor was preaching. He, however, did not want me to play and arranged for someone else. I heard later there was a discussion after church about needing to go to the cross and ask God to take away my addiction. Addicted to what?! If I have an addiction, shouldn't I at least know about it and get something out of it? :confused:

As I have "come out" the general reaction has been, "Well, big surprise, like we hadn't figured that one out already." Somehow it is OK to be gay if one says nothing about it. But being OPENLY gay is a horrible sin. Why is dishonesty preferably to the truth in some Christian circles?

The catholics are glad to have me play, however. The Catholic church is MY church. It is actually nice to have only one church to deal with.

Well I better run. I have to play for the bilingual mass in a couple of hours. I get to play for three masses this weekend, two with guitar and one with organ. It is a joy to be allowed to participate in music ministry.

[Steven E. Webster]

Hi Anthony,
As an organist I was interested to read about your experiences. I see the organ declining in use in churches. At least in my experience piano and guitar seems to be taking over. Nice organs well played are majestic instruments.
.

Pablo and friends,
"Nice organs, well-played"--that's the key, isn't it? Organs need to be well-maintained and tuned. Organists need to know when to show off, and when to just accompany the music/singing of others.

I like singing with an organ when it doesn't drown me out and when it helps me sing my part rather than confuse me when I'm singing with fancy improvisations and key-changes. I've had a pianist in church recently do way too much improvisation during hymns! (I like to sing the bass part on the four-part hymns).

I'm pleased to say that in Madison, Wisconsin, at least, the organ is alive and well! There has been a steady pace of installations of new pipe organs, not only in churches, but also in the new civic concert hall. This is a major University town with alot of folks who appreciate classical music and organs.

My hope is that there is room in the world for all types of music. I like "blended" style services that offer variety.

I've heard it claimed that the AIDS epidemic struck the organist profession particularly hard, and that that is part of what has contributed to the apparent decline in the use of the organ. There just have been less organists for a while.

Steven Webster

[Matt Algren]

I was going to play last weekend when a guest pastor was preaching. He, however, did not want me to play and arranged for someone else. I heard later there was a discussion after church about needing to go to the cross and ask God to take away my addiction. Addicted to what?! If I have an addiction, shouldn't I at least know about it and get something out of it? :confused:Interesting (by which I mean asinine) that the discussion didn't include you. Also interesting (still asinine) that the people in the church folded so easily.

As I have "come out" the general reaction has been, "Well, big surprise, like we hadn't figured that one out already." Somehow it is OK to be gay if one says nothing about it. But being OPENLY gay is a horrible sin. Why is dishonesty preferably to the truth in some Christian circles?Because if you keep shtum about it, it means you're suitably ashamed of yourself. It also means you aren't making them uncomfortable. Old Christians likes them their comfort. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, Pablo. Sounds like you're doing well in your Catholic church.



Steven, this morning the organist thought it would be a great idea to play a different arrangement of the doxology. An arrangement that changed the standard chord progression. Would have been pretty if people hadn't fishing for notes.

[Steven E. Webster]

Steven, this morning the organist thought it would be a great idea to play a different arrangement of the doxology. An arrangement that changed the standard chord progression. Would have been pretty if people hadn't fishing for notes.

Matt,
As far as I'm concerned, you have a legitimate beef with THAT organist! There's a prelude, offertory and postlude to do the show-off stuff. Leave the hymns alone!

Steven Webster

[Pablo Rafael]

Organists need to know when to show off, and when to just accompany the music/singing of others.

I like singing with an organ when it doesn't drown me out and when it helps me sing my part rather than confuse me when I'm singing with fancy improvisations and key-changes.




Steven, this morning the organist thought it would be a great idea to play a different arrangement of the doxology. An arrangement that changed the standard chord progression. Would have been pretty if people hadn't fishing for notes.

Steven and Matt,
I don't know what to do with the two of you. You are taking all the fun out of being organist. What good is it if we can't show off a little? Who wants to play the hymns the same way all the time? I probably do get people annoyed at times. I like to try new things and fancy improvisations. In the congregations I have played for pretty much no one sings anything but melody. What I like to do when the congregation is singing quite strongly is not play at all on a verse and just let the singing be acapella. It sends shivers up my spine when the voices fill the church unaccompanied. I'll admit it. Too much improvisation can be distracting. What I see more often is organists that aren't proficient enough to try ANY improvisation. All hymns played the same way with the same registration all the time. Can I do some improvisation on some of the middle verses, please?

Catholic hymns have a tendency to be melodic rather than chordal. Not much opportunity to sing in parts unless you can make up your own harmony. Also the accompanients to the hymns oftentimes are very complicated and don't necessarily contain the melody. Catholic music is often more modern than most protestant hymnody. It mostly came into existence after Vatacin II.

Interesting (by which I mean asinine) that the discussion didn't include you. Also interesting (still asinine) that the people in the church folded so easily.
That has been the dissapointement to me. It is nice that so many people have spoken words of encouragement and support. But in the end no one is willing to actually do anything about it. I don't see anyone willing to challenge the prejudices. One church member, a fine man who has a lesbian daughter, said to me, "It's a real shame that it has to be that way." And the reason it is that way is because people are willing to just remain in their comfortable prejudices and believe as they are told.

In the little Lutheran mission church I used to play for, the congregation really wants me to play. But they won't challenge the pastor on it. It is the congregation who hires the musicians not the pastor. But, at least in the LCMS, the attitude is that the Pastor is boss, and congregation members are required to believe what is passed down to them from on high. No searching or questioning of the official doctrines is allowed. Be good obedient sheep. It is an interesting attitude for the church that started the Reformation to take.

[Zerbie]

I don't know what to do with the two of you. You are taking all the fun out of being organist. What good is it if we can't show off a little? Who wants to play the hymns the same way all the time? I probably do get people annoyed at times. I like to try new things and fancy improvisations.

Can I do some improvisation on some of the middle verses, please?

If we were working together, I'd say Go For It!!
I get frustrated with how simple church music is, and would love to get to do more complex and interesting stuff.
And while you're at it, transpose those hymns up a third, for God's sake!! They're always so low and growly I can rarely ever sing them. I feel like I'm moaning on pitch. :rolleyes:




That has been the dissapointement to me. It is nice that so many people have spoken words of encouragement and support. But in the end no one is willing to actually do anything about it. I don't see anyone willing to challenge the prejudices. One church member, a fine man who has a lesbian daughter, said to me, "It's a real shame that it has to be that way."


But it DOESN'T!

I was ruminating yesterday after church (yeah, I did decide to start going to one, and the guy talked about taking responsibility to actually do things to make the world better), that it seems really, really difficult to get people to a place of empowerment. For them to get to a place where they say, "If not now, when? And if not me, then who?"

So this fellow does not want things to be that way, yet because for the moment they are, he assumes they cannot be any different?

How often do I hear this from someone. Something is not as it should be, and rather than speak up or try something else, a person will shrug and say, "Whaddaya gonna do?" Which really means, "I don't like it, but I'm not going to do a damn thing about it." And I just don't get that.

I'm not talking about absolutely immobile brick walls, here. I'm talking about easy things, like taking one little step and saying to your pastor, "You know, Joe, I would really prefer it if we kept Pablo on as music director. He does such an excellent job with A, B, C, and Z. . . ." That's difficult????


And the reason it is that way is because people are willing to just remain in their comfortable prejudices and believe as they are told.
Thank you for saying it.
:love:


In the little Lutheran mission church I used to play for, the congregation really wants me to play. But they won't challenge the pastor on it. It is the congregation who hires the musicians not the pastor. But, at least in the LCMS, the attitude is that the Pastor is boss, and congregation members are required to believe what is passed down to them from on high. No searching or questioning of the official doctrines is allowed. Be good obedient sheep. It is an interesting attitude for the church that started the Reformation to take.

I wonder if this sitting back and being quiet thing is just a human attitude that crosses all kinds of social spectra. ? Anyone know?
I have never understood it. Maybe I am unusually outspoken or something, but I literally CAN'T understand sitting back and shutting up about something that strikes you as glaringly wrong, especially when you see it taking a toll on someone you respect and admire.

But it is something I observe - see back to my original response to this thread. For whatever reason, people generally are loathe to challenge authority. I wasn't talking about organists (I seriously suspect y'all have stronger than average personalities), I was referring to the congregations that sit back and watch this silliness go on. Why on earth wouldn't someone Say Something? I would. Heck, I've done it in non-church situations. It is NOT difficult. Why is there a problem?

[Anthonypaul2]

Hi
Matt,

I know the experience you speak of, and it happens in some churches and Im sorry you haven't been paid. In my church they VALUE the musicians and pay us and at Christmas time, they give us a BONUS. They only thing we are not paid for is the 5th sunday when their is a month with 5 sundays. Once in awhile, just because I love my ministry & my church, I will do a 'special' service as a volunteer.

YOur comment about pipe organs, well, I gues your not much of an organ music fan!? :( I dont play pipe organs , but appreciate their wonderful sound. I play electric/electronic organs and LOVE their sound. Add a Leslie speaker and your really cookin'! Pianos are nice, too. I do play piano as well. But its my 2nd choice. I much prefer organ, I also dont like to debate which is better because they are completely different instruments even though they have some similiarities ;)

Amen to that. Take off the 'professional' and you find the group I sing with. We go all over and are generally paid via offering or whatnot; there's no set price. At our home church? Haven't seen a dime.

And I'm going to make people hate me, but if I never heard another pipe organ it'd be too soon. Give me a good pianist any Sunday.

[Anthonypaul2]

Hi
Pablo,

Dont worry, Im not listening to Matt! :lol: He is entitled not to like pipe organs. I realize this was an older thread, but I just couldn't resist responding since Im an Organist. I do believe their is a special place for organists in the church because we are so rare.. Most churches have plenty of piano players. Also organs themselves are so different, depending on what brand it is.
So sorry to hear about the Lutheran church treating you the way they have. Its not right. Never heard homosexuality described as an 'addiction'. Weird. I always thought we were "practicing" :lol: bad pun ! I hate to say it but that is what many churches do when someone "outs" themselves--they punish by not allowing the person to play music, or take away whatever ministry that person was doing in the church. What always strikes me about that is, the bible is filled with people that sinned (really bad) and because their hearts were after the things of God, God used them! King David is a great example.. The book of Hebrews (Chapter 11) is filled with the "hereos of faith", for whom many were messed up, screwed up, murderers, disobedient, prostitutes, etc.. etc... Homosexuality is no greater than any other sin (if you believe its a sin in the first place, which I dont. I believe homosexuality is a normal part of our human condition. )My point is if your heart is after God and God's kingdom, God will use you! We also know that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Another words once God gives a gift and calling, its forever. God doesn't take it back , it is us who reject it or it is us who allow others to tell us we cant use it because of WHATEVER sin...) Im so glad you have the catholic church to play in. You might consider playing in churches that are AFFIRMING, that accept gays--if their are any where you live.. That would solve having to worry about being who you are! :)
>>>Before my ministry started in 1990, I did play "on occasion" at my parents church, but when the church leaders discovered I was gay they wouldn't let me play anymore. They didn't come out say that, but they never asked me again to play for youth services, rest-home servies for Childrens' church. So I was dying spiritually at hearing gay-bashing sermons from the pulpit and I knew God called me to do music and I was being denied. That is what led me to MCC, I had to get away from Anti-gay church.
God Bless you.


Hi Anthony,

I will take this opportunity to say hello. This thread was also the thread that I made my first post on back in 2006. See post earlier. That is where the whole thing started. (What was that groan I heard?)

As an organist I was interested to read about your experiences. I see the organ declining in use in churches. At least in my experience piano and guitar seems to be taking over. Nice organs well played are majestic instruments.

And ignore what Matt says above. We organists are on the top of the musical hierarchy, and he knows it. And if anyone wants to argue, I will just add more stops. We organists can always be louder than everyone else. :D

Always glad to welcome a new organist to the forums. Please stick around and let us know more about you.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

.............................
This thread seems a good place to post this update.
My recent experiences have been enlightening. I used to play in three churches, one Catholic and two LCMS Lutheran. Both of the Lutheran churches have gotten rid of me since I "came out". The reasoning being that the songs are the Word of God. I guess my being gay contaminates the music. I find this a real hypocrisy especially from the Lutherans who empasize so strongly that all have sinned and all are in need of the grace of God, no one is better than anyone else for it is the forgiveness and love of Christ that covers us all. I guess for this group of Lutherans, grace is an abstract concept that actually doesn't have any practical application. In all fairness I must say that the individual congregational members have been supportive, but the pastors and their families have been the problem. And like Anthony said also, the pastor seems to have total control in these churches. I was going to play last weekend when a guest pastor was preaching. He, however, did not want me to play and arranged for someone else. I heard later there was a discussion after church about needing to go to the cross and ask God to take away my addiction. Addicted to what?! If I have an addiction, shouldn't I at least know about it and get something out of it? :confused:

As I have "come out" the general reaction has been, "Well, big surprise, like we hadn't figured that one out already." Somehow it is OK to be gay if one says nothing about it. But being OPENLY gay is a horrible sin. Why is dishonesty preferably to the truth in some Christian circles?

The catholics are glad to have me play, however. The Catholic church is MY church. It is actually nice to have only one church to deal with.

Well I better run. I have to play for the bilingual mass in a couple of hours. I get to play for three masses this weekend, two with guitar and one with organ. It is a joy to be allowed to participate in music ministry.

[Anthonypaul2]

HI
Steven,
I agree with you, I like "Blended style" of worship and the church I belong too does that style. Yes, "nice organs ,-well-played" does make a difference. Organs can sometimes drown-out singers. The organist has to learn about the accostics of their Sanctuary. And some organists need to let other instruments be the LEAD and the organ can be the BACKGROUND. Organs do not have to take lead everytime. I cannot comment on pipe organs as I dont play them. But do appreciate them. Organs can be used for any type of music. (Some organs are better suited for some types of music ) but in general, its how you set up the organ to get the sounds you need/want for the particular kind of music that is being done!
take care!

Pablo and friends,
"Nice organs, well-played"--that's the key, isn't it? Organs need to be well-maintained and tuned. Organists need to know when to show off, and when to just accompany the music/singing of others.

I like singing with an organ when it doesn't drown me out and when it helps me sing my part rather than confuse me when I'm singing with fancy improvisations and key-changes. I've had a pianist in church recently do way too much improvisation during hymns! (I like to sing the bass part on the four-part hymns).

I'm pleased to say that in Madison, Wisconsin, at least, the organ is alive and well! There has been a steady pace of installations of new pipe organs, not only in churches, but also in the new civic concert hall. This is a major University town with alot of folks who appreciate classical music and organs.

My hope is that there is room in the world for all types of music. I like "blended" style services that offer variety.

I've heard it claimed that the AIDS epidemic struck the organist profession particularly hard, and that that is part of what has contributed to the apparent decline in the use of the organ. There just have been less organists for a while.

Steven Webster

[Matt Algren]

Steven and Matt,
I don't know what to do with the two of you. You are taking all the fun out of being organist. What good is it if we can't show off a little? Who wants to play the hymns the same way all the time? I probably do get people annoyed at times. I like to try new things and fancy improvisations. In the congregations I have played for pretty much no one sings anything but melody. What I like to do when the congregation is singing quite strongly is not play at all on a verse and just let the singing be acapella. It sends shivers up my spine when the voices fill the church unaccompanied. I'll admit it. Too much improvisation can be distracting. What I see more often is organists that aren't proficient enough to try ANY improvisation. All hymns played the same way with the same registration all the time. Can I do some improvisation on some of the middle verses, please? A little showing off is fine. I'd be disappointed if you didn't stretch yourself from time to time! And I love it when the accompanist drops out for a verse.

My church has a big pipe organ that they take a lot of pride in. Spent a goodly sum restoring it a few years back. And we're fortunate to have a good organist (a non-gay one :eek:) who knows when to flourish and when to cut it out. Every once in a while when we're singing a hymn that everybody knows like the back of their hands, she'll pull some nice tricks on the next-to-last verse, but she always sticks in a measure or two of flourish to give people a little warning.

But on the Doxology? We're Pavlov's dogs when we hear that D-chord. Don't mess with our trained reaction! ;)

As far as organs go, they're fine. I just grew up with a piano in church and it gives me a warm fuzzy when someone plays it. We have a baby grand at church and it's barely touched.

[Matt Algren]

Attention Church Organists: Read this post at your own risk. Please have smelling salts and a big Civil War era hanky available for swooning.

So they did some works on the lights in the chancel at my church a few weeks ago, and something got dropped on some of the small pipes* and bent them. Last week they apparently were able to use it, but she stayed away from certain notes and such. She said nobody but the more musical of people would have noticed.

Now comes the swoony part. Sometime last week, someone decided to 'fix' the pipes and got up there and bent them back. (Uh oh, there goes Pablo.) Yeah, she was really happy about that. Excited, even. Apparently her rehearsal Friday afternoon was spent figuring out what stops she could actually use this week. There should be someone there to fix it this week.




* I asked after church today, and the organist couldn't remember the exact number, but it's over 2,000.

[pianoplayer66]

:lol:HI Guys!

This is a rather fun conversation. I'm one of those organists that love to go travel around to different churches and get to play different organs whenever I can. Every instrument is different and every congregation is different. One of the first things I do is find out how much 'umph' the organ has! I just spent 3 weeks this summer traveling in Europe and got to play several organs there in large churches and small cathedrals---God I was in HEAVEN! 8-10 second reverbs! It was all I could think about for several weeks! (well, maybe not ALL I could think about:lol:)

Now, just so you don't get the wrong idea, I am not professionally trained and only got to do this because I was touring with a group of musicians. I am self taught and started playing on small livingroom organs in southwest Wisconsin when I was 14. That's all those churches had. Some didn't even have pedals, most only had less than a full octave of pedals. I didn't get paid for any thing I played for until I was in a bigger city in Wisconsin. I didn't get paid for Sunday, or Weddings, or Funerals. No one got paid for anything in those churches and we all did it for the glory of God. We filled whatever rolls we were qualified for.

I like to play with the hymns, but only with a congregation that is singing well. Most people love my playing but some don't like it if it is too loud (they just don't know how to live!) When I am a guest organist, it is not appropriate to play around with the service unless I know the congregation well.

At my regular church, I also regularly use the grand piano we have for the 'blended' music we use in the service. It just sounds better than I can make it sound on the organ.

I am also very fortunate to have a co-organist (who has never been married, never dated ;)) and we love to play piano/organ duets.

From not getting paid a penny to now getting paid $100/wk for 2 services, I know that money isn't the only (or even the best) way for a church to show its thanks to the musicians. That being said, I no longer play for weddings....no amount of money can get me back into that usual hornets nest of nerves! ( I once played for a wedding because I was a guest and the organist didn't show up...they asked me after I was seated. Another time when the organist was sick they held the wedding until I could drive 10 miles to play for a Catholic wedding. I had NEVER been to a Catholic service. In 2 minutes they told me where to play what. They told me to play 'The Rose' for the 'offering'. My first thought was 'wow! The Catholics take an offering at a wedding?!?' I didn't know it was the offering to Mary they were talking about. We passed that part of the wedding and the Priest presented the couple so I knew we were now ready for the recessional. During the recessional, the mother of the bride came up to the balcony and started screaming at the top of her (shrill) voice at me because I didn't play the Rose. I told her I waited for the plates to pass but they never did. She hit me on the head with her purse and called me an idiot and stomped away. I finished and slunk out of the church embarrased at age 16. It turned out I was the talk of the town. The whole congregation felt sorry for me. The rest of the family was thankful for me and the bride and groom put a public appology in the newpaper the next week. Unfortuneatly, as I said, in those days, I didn't get paid for either of those wedings!!

[Zerbie]

PianoPlayer,

You toured Europe this summer? What cities were you in (and when?) I ask because I was there for a month this summer traveling around with family. We visited churches/cathedrals also.
Hubby & I actually attended a service at the Frauenkirche in Dresden. :love:

Now, as to that horrid woman's behavior, I can't believe someone didn't scream at her for hitting you in the head with an object. I'm fairly sure that actually qualifies as assault. I'd be livid.
Although this much later, I suppose it's probably something of a source of amusement to you now. But man, after a thing like that, were I you, I would never play a wedding for less than $500.

[u-dog]

That is outrageous! If anyone ever treated the musician like that in a service that I was officiating at there would be HELL TO PAY.

[pianoplayer66]

Yeap, that was when I was 16. I played for weddings until I was about 30. Finally gave up. guess I am a slow learner!:lol:

Yeah, I was in Europe this last summer with a singing group. We did the church service at the Wesley Chappel in London, sang/played in churches/ cathedrals in Paris, Innsbruck Austria, Rothenberg Germany, St. Marks in Venice, then different places in Switzerland, Lichtenstein. I was wonderful!

Did a lot of traveling this summer. Also hit New York, Mexican ruains, and Las Vegas! Glad to be home for a while....except headed for Main in October!


That is outrageous! If anyone ever treated the musician like that in a service that I was officiating at there would be HELL TO PAY.