Simple Living

[kara speltz]

We have a new page on our website, that for me is very exciting. One of my own personal great passions is the issue of Simple Living. We've recently made a commitment, not only to add this page to our website, but to also add a Simple Living Corner to our alerts. Simple living is something that is not very well understood, so I'm really looking forward to sharing these ideas. If you'd like to take a look at the new page, you can find it at: http://www.soulforce.org/article/870

I'd love to see some discussion here on the forum regarding these issues.

Thanks, Kara

[Jamie McDaniel]

Kara, I know you have mentioned the article "What if the world were a village of 100 people?" in an old thread on living simple (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72). I just came across this presentation called Miniature Earth (http://www.miniature-earth.com/) that is an updated version.

[Jennifer5]

Can't wait to here more on this... great page Kara, thank you for sharing!:love:

[Lydia]

Thank you for addressing this topic. It's something that I struggle with.

[kara speltz]

Thank you for addressing this topic. It's something that I struggle with.

Dear Lydia: Simple living, I suspect, will always be an issue people struggle with, just as nonviolence is. There are no quick answers, no black and white answers, it's always a matter of judgement about what we really need in our lives.

My own personal issue for the last couple of months is fairly small - it would incur only a $150-200 investment. What I wish was that I had others within my church community to share my thinking with. When most of your friends don't make simple living a priority, everything becomes relative.

Most of my friends consider me to be a prime example of how to live simply - but that is so far from the truth. I have way, way too much stuff.

Some of the best folks I know around living simply are Catholic Workers and also the Mennonite community. They really do take seriously their commitments to simple living.

I'm really hoping this forum could possibly provide the possibility of folks who want to live simply but need support in the process.

Kara

[Jennifer5]

Kara, the effort you put into this whole living simply thing is just amazing! I would love to hear more on this topic, and if there is information that I can send out to friends and family that would be great! I know a lot of people that would be very interested in what you're doing!:love:

[kara speltz]

Kara, the effort you put into this whole living simply thing is just amazing! I would love to hear more on this topic, and if there is information that I can send out to friends and family that would be great! I know a lot of people that would be very interested in what you're doing!:love:

I can give people a couple of excellent links that I use myself. Certainly in my own life it was the Catholic Worker movement that helped me understand the issues. When I first married, I lived in an fancy Connecticut Ave., Apt. in Washington, D.C. and had twenty-five (yes, 25!!!!) pairs of high heel shoes! I was definately resistant to the idea - and what a shock it was when we moved into a ghetto area.

Probably one of the revealing moments came when my neices and nephews came to visit me and said to me that I shouldn't let the kids play on my furniture because it would ruin it. They were just 8 and 9 at the time, but already they'd learned that property was more important than people. I was shocked.

There is a list of Catholic Workers through out the country and although the CW is pretty anarchistic and each community is very different, the chances of getting an understanding of simple living are very strong. You can check to see if there's a Catholic Worker in your community by going to:
http://www.catholicworker.org/communities/commlistall.cfm

But in true CW fashion the website is not always working:rolleyes:

The other thing I would recommend is checking out our Living Simply page and you'll find two other links to organizations that do massive education on the issues of Living Simply. The link for that is: www.soulforce.org/simpleliving

For folks of the Christian persuasion, I have a 7 week course that I edited from another organizations program on simple living. I gave it at my own church. The workshop was called $$$ and Spirituality. Any one who would like to see that just write me.

I'm just delighted to see an interest in this subject within Soulforce, because it is such a neglected subject. Many thanks!!!! Kara

[1engelbythesea]

Thank you Kara for bringing forth this subject. Both of us are struggling with this Simple Living as we just inherited the remains of two devoted pack rat parents, including too many pets. Right now I am feeling as though I just retired to become a profesional yard sale bag lady. WE have donated truck loads of furniture (old, not antiques), Clothing, Personal care items to Women Shelters, Goodwill, AmVets.
Last October we went to New Hampshire and Vermont my first trip to the area to visit relative of my partner. The only thing I purchased in a Shaker store was a very small painting (5"x10") there is a single house in a large praire in large above it it says SIMPLIFY. It is hung were is the first thing I see every morning and the last thing I see every night.
Hope to stay healthy and live long enough to accomplish that!:pray:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest. -Mohandas K.
Gandhi (1869-1948)

[Dash]

I was just reading the "Simple Living" page to which Kara linked above. One of the statements was...

They don't understand that the vast majority of people who choose to live more simply do so, not out of a feeling of sacrifice; but rather, they are seeking deeper sources of satisfaction than a high stress, consumption-obsessed society can ever provide.

My workplace is very interesting in that I see a number of construction project managers hurtling about in their jobs, pulling their hair out over deadlines, and grinding their teeth on a thousand frustrations. Most of these people have a bachelor's degree in Architecture or Engineering...most are married...most either have children or have raised them.

All of them make considerably more than I do as an office boy with a Master's Degree, and to be honest, I'm not sure they could have provided homes for and supplied the needs of their families in the Chicago area without the higher paying jobs. Nonetheless, I often watch them with some sadness at the stress they face...some relief as well...that I can supply my needs and be fulfilled in my little job without the stress.

The tension, of course, lies in my desire to make something of my music. That ambition...or stewardship of the talents (an ethic my good father instilled in me)...makes me push myself in other ways. It calls for increases in income to provide resources that I don't presently have like personal transportation, air travel to auditions, lessons, expensive clothing to make an impression on auditioners, even perhaps more schooling or expensive programs.

Sigh...I do live simply, and fully appreciate the beauty of such simplicity, but I wonder if I will one day be one of those people running around in a mad dash to keep the plates spinning. Sometimes I feel guilty for not doing more...for treasuring the simplicity of my life. I feel like I'm being lazy and lax.

Tension... Even in trying to be simple.

[kara speltz]

Sigh...I do live simply, and fully appreciate the beauty of such simplicity, but I wonder if I will one day be one of those people running around in a mad dash to keep the plates spinning. Sometimes I feel guilty for not doing more...for treasuring the simplicity of my life. I feel like I'm being lazy and lax.

Tension... Even in trying to be simple.

Actually it gets easier, the older you get. And in addition the more you chose to spend time with others who have this same value.

It involves a lot of trust, and I would suggest that if your life is supposed to be about making music, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't do that and still keep it simple.

But it gets really hard when you're around people who don't even comprehend the ideas of living simply, so it involves finding others who are also committed to this. That's what the Catholic Worker movement did for me. It gave me a community that was focused on doing the works of mercy, not accumulating wealth and prestige. The Soulforce community too has that potential, but at times we get lost. That was why I pressed for a deeper commitment to this issue within Soulforce. It was basic to Gandhi's understandings, but we often make light of it, or feel guilty about it, rather than embracing the concept and taking the first steps to finding ways to simplify.

The fact that this discussion continues on our forum, makes me oh so happy, as I get ready to attend, what is expected to be, the largest Catholic Worker gathering ever held.

kara

[Zerbie]

Dash articulates a significant problem in "being a singer." I always felt responsible for the voice I was given to the extent that I felt it my responsibility to remain working on stage so that the gift was being used. But unless you've lived as a singer (or lived WITH one, I suppose) you cannot IMAGINE what it entails insofar as expenses, not only financial but personal. Maintaining a psycho-emotional "center" in the midst of pursuing this stuff, surrounded by other singers with their aspirations, needs, ambitions, is the closest thing to impossible I've ever seen.

I think the trick is figuring out where to draw the line for oneself. I tend to prefer having fewer financial obligations, even when that means assets, but otoh, sometimes there's a trade-off that is worth it. Now that I"m in an "okay" place and no longer struggling, I am able to give back to the community both financially and with volunteer time. And I simply cherish having the opportunity. A few years ago I was so hard pressed to get-by myself, I couldn't afford it.

[kara speltz]

I think the trick is figuring out where to draw the line for oneself. I tend to prefer having fewer financial obligations, even when that means assets, but otoh, sometimes there's a trade-off that is worth it. Now that I"m in an "okay" place and no longer struggling, I am able to give back to the community both financially and with volunteer time. And I simply cherish having the opportunity. A few years ago I was so hard pressed to get-by myself, I couldn't afford it.

Good point. Part of simple living is giving back both of our own personal time and hopefully financially, when we finally reach that place of feeling we have enough. Gratitude is so intrinsic to a simple life. All we have is gift and it is that understanding that lies at the heart of it. No two people will walk the same path in terms of simple living, just as no two people walk the exact same spiritual path.

I never thought that I would retire - I'm clearly a workoholic, and I suspect if it wasn't for Soulforce, I wouldn't have retired. But having the time to spend at the AIDS Center each week is absolutely - as they say in the Visa ad - PRICELESS!

I recall giving a workshop at our action in St. Louis on simple living. It was awesome because we ran the spectrum on how we lived our lives. There was one couple there that had lived with no electricity and no running water for a number of years. I found myself thinking, omg I have no right to be running this workshop these women are so far beyond my own capacity for simple living.

But then I remembered something someone once told me - we are all teachers and we are all students. Each of us teaches the other

Kara

[Jennifer5]

You're amazing Kara... I love just listening to all you have to say on this topic.:love:

[kara speltz]

Dear Jennifer: Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad folks are finding this helpful. I just stumbled an an interesting resource guide, I'll copy below. Unfortunately almost all of the books and resources cost $$$$, but perhaps some libraries might have some of this. I found this particular page by googling "simple living."

Here's the resource list:


~ Articles & Essays ~
What is Voluntary Simplicity? by Linda Breen Pierce

Recipe for Simplicity by Linda Breen Pierce


~ Organizations & Activities ~
Alternatives for Simple Living is a non-profit organization that equips people of faith to challenge consumerism, live justly and celebrate responsibly.

Mindful Canada is an on-line resource organization for Voluntary Simplicity in Canada.

Seeds of Simplicity is a national, non-profit membership organization for the general public centered on voluntary simplicity. It sponsors the Simplicity Circles Project, directed by Cecile Andrews, author of Circle of Simplicity.

The Simple Living Network is a comprehensive web site featuring simplicity-related news and events, a free newsletter including articles and columns by well-known authors, a database of simplicity study groups, and links to other simplicity-friendly web sites. You can purchase many books and other simplicity-related publications from this web site.


~ Magazines & Newsletters ~

Simple Living Oasis, a quarterly journal edited by Janet Luhrs, author of The Simple Living Guide, offers tips, tools, and inspiration to those who want to live simply. is a newsletter featuring tips on simple living, letters from readers who share their experiences, book reviews and more.


~ Book Summaries ~
Affluenza: The All-Consuming Epidemic by John de Graaf, David Wann, Thomas H. Naylor (San Francisco: Berrett-Koehler, 2001). Explores the personal, social, economic, and environmental costs of overconsumption in North America. Suggests strategies for rebuilding families and communities, respecting the earth, and restoring personal health and sanity in a world suffering from excess.

Graceful Simplicity: Toward a Philosophy and Politics of Simple Living by Jerome M. Segal (New York: Henry Holt, 1999). Philosopher and political activist contends that the grass roots, self-help approach to simple living is inadequate to effectuate lasting changes in our culture. Proposes political and social changes to our cultural and financial institutions.

A Reasonable Life: Toward a Simpler, Secure, More Humane Existence by Ferenc Maté (Pflugerville, TX: Albatross Publishing, 2nd edition, 2000). Presents a compelling, witty, radical and passionate diatribe on the state of American society, with corresponding suggestions on how to turn our world back right-side-up.

The Simple Life: Plain Living and High Thinking in American Culture by David E. Shi (Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, Reprinted 2001). Comprehensive historical review of various simplicity movements from the 17th to 20th centuries, written by scholar and researcher of intellectual history.

The Simple Living Guide: A Sourcebook for Less Stressful, More Joyful Living by Janet Luhrs (New York: Broadway Books, 1997). Comprehensive guide on various aspects of simple living, including time, money, inner simplicity, work, simple pleasures and romance, virtues, families, holidays, cooking and nutrition, health and exercise, housing, clutter, gardening and travel.

Simpler Living, Compassionate Life: A Christian Perspective by Michael Schut, editor (Denver, CO: Living the Good News, 1999). Diversified collection of essays written by experts in the simplicity movement offers excellent overview of the principles of voluntary simplicity.

Simplicity: Notes, Stories and Exercises for Developing Unimaginable Wealth by Mark A. Burch (Gabriola Island, B.C.: New Society Publishers, 1995). Explores the spiritual nature of voluntary simplicity, mindfulness, direct personal involvement in everyday living, ecological issues such as reducing waste and consumption, sustainable development, and greater equitable distribution of the world's wealth and resources.

Simplify Your Life: 100 Ways to Slow Down and Enjoy the Things That Really Matter by Elaine St. James (New York: Hyperion, 1994). Classic popular bestseller offering practical tips on simplifying in the areas of career, household, health, social, finance, and personal affairs.

The Value of Voluntary Simplicity by Richard Gregg (Wallingford, PA: Pendle Hill, 1936). Philosophical essay on the need and benefits of living more simply. Still relevant for the 21st century. Author coined term "voluntary simplicity."

Voluntary Simplicity: Toward a Way of Life that is Outwardly Simple, Inwardly Rich by Duane Elgin (New York: Quill, Revised 1993). Classic seminal text for the modern voluntary simplicity movement. Discusses implications of voluntary simplicity from individual and societal/global points of view.

[Jamie McDaniel]

...when we finally reach that place of feeling we have enough.

This is what draws me into the idea of simple living. That we can reach a place of having enough instead of buying all kinds of things we don't really need. Gluttony, be it food or material items, is not good.

There was one couple there that had lived with no electricity and no running water for a number of years. I found myself thinking, omg I have no right to be running this workshop these women are so far beyond my own capacity for simple living.

And this is what sends me running away as it seems to classify running water and electricity as things we don't really need. I see technology as such a social help to the human race. So while I can respect (maybe?) the personal choice this couple made, I don't see the benefit of it. Shouldn't we work to get such basics to the masses rather than having those people that have them give them up?

Perhaps I misunderstand. Was the couple trying to experience the lack of running water and electricity so they could learn what it is like to live without these basics? Sort of like a fast to try and understand for just a moment the pain of the hungry poor? Or did they feel stronger as humans by learning to survive without these basics? (I just watched Cast Away, by the way.)

I guess I just get turned off whenever simple living seems to go the way of primitive living.

I sometimes have a similiar discussion regarding vegetarians and vegans. I often end up thinking that the vegans, in their extreme diet, aren't really persuading the masses to give up meat. Perhaps that is not the point, maybe it is just personal. But then again, what would we vegetarians and vegans consider better: a few people who ate no animal products whatsoever, or millions eating less meat. I'd go with the latter.

That is not an exact analogy to the idea of simple living, I know. But in both vegetarianism and simple living, I see the danger of extreme denial becoming an individual virtue rather than a call to the masses.

Thoughts?

[kara speltz]

And this is what sends me running away as it seems to classify running water and electricity as things we don't really need. I see technology as such a social help to the human race. So while I can respect (maybe?) the personal choice this couple made, I don't see the benefit of it. Shouldn't we work to get such basics to the masses rather than having those people that have them give them up?

Perhaps I misunderstand. Was the couple trying to experience the lack of running water and electricity so they could learn what it is like to live without these basics? Sort of like a fast to try and understand for just a moment the pain of the hungry poor? Or did they feel stronger as humans by learning to survive without these basics? (I just watched Cast Away, by the way.)




The vast majority of people who strive to live simple lives do not find themselves in such primitive situations. As I listened to this couple, I think they spent somewhere between one and two years living in the cabin in order to slow down their very hectic lives. Eventually they returned to Cleveland and continued their activist work. But this was a time together for them to reflect on what is important in their lives. I remember when I came back from Iraq, it was a bit difficult to shop in regular grocery stores, because of the excess of so-called "choices" of, for instance, cereals. Do we really require an entire aisle of cereals???? Or, pet foods? I think it helped me understand on a whole different level, the excessiveness of our culture.

I firmly believe it's absolutely necessary for us recognize that we're all called to different paths. And it is NEVER acceptable for us to judge another's lifestyle. If we're paying attention to our own consumerism, I doubt if we'd have time to judge anothers. Compared to most who live within a Catholic Worker community, my life style (NOT as a homosexual, but as a consumer) might appear overly consumeristic, but I have had one friend call my lifestyle voluntary poverty - WHICH IT IS NOT by any stretch of the imagination.

It's important that we not "keep up with the Jones," whether they are consuming vast amounts of resources, or whether they're living in a cabin in the woods. It's about paying attention to where the Spirit leads us, .... not where the Spirit leads the "Jones."

kara

[Daniel]

I wish to associate with Dash's and Zerbie's comments about the musician's life. Art ain't cheap! That's for sure.

Training for it. Producing it. Selling it. More and more, the field (whether it is pop or opera) is becoming even more visually oriented than it is already. And in the rush for the appearance of things, I believe a great deal of substance, the real delights of the ear, are being lost in the quest for more visual stimulus.

That said, there is a paradox here worth contemplating.

There is one thing about music (especially classical music) that is very hard- and at the same time- very attractive- and very simple. One has to learn to appreciate living like a monk to really pull it off at a high level. This imposes an inner - as well as an outer - simplicity on one. I think that's a good thing. It requires a heightened kind of listening.

I like to think that listening, real honest-to-god listening, is actually a pretty simple matter. It doesn't require much fuss. Just focused attention. What could be more simple than that? And difficult....with so much competing for one's attention?

Yikes!

It's like we have to learn to see with our ears and hear with our eyes in order to make sense of things as they really are.

[kara speltz]

That said, there is a paradox here worth contemplating.

There is one thing about music (especially classical music) that is very hard- and at the same time- very attractive- and very simple. One has to learn to appreciate living like a monk to really pull it off at a high level. This imposes an inner - as well as an outer - simplicity on one. I think that's a good thing. It requires a heightened kind of listening.

I like to think that listening, real honest-to-god listening, is actually a pretty simple matter. It doesn't require much fuss. Just focused attention. What could be more simple than that? And difficult....with so much competing for one's attention?

Yikes!

It's like we have to learn to see with our ears and hear with our eyes in order to make sense of things as they really are.


Dear Daniel: I've been thinking about your posting for a while now. We American's are so inundated with "stuff." It's very hard for people to take the time to focus and to really slow down to a kind of simplicity that brings focus to one's life.

Shortly after I moved into senior housing, my car broke down. It seemed to me to be an invitation to explore whether I could get by without one, given that my area has excellent public transportation.

I can't always get to where I want to go directly, but I've started walking a lot more. And the walking, along streets I used to drive through has been fascinating. I've seen so many things that I would have missed, had I been driving. Like a spectacular Bird of Paradise plant that had been blooming for weeks prior to my giving up my car, but had completely been missed as I sped by.

Within two weeks of walking and taking public transportation, I made the decision to get rid of my car, and it has really been a blessing. In the 6 months since then, I've rarely missed having a car. If I'm taking my grandkids, I rent a car for a day or two, but that's about it.

So each step, it seems to me, leads to another, and another, and .....

But again, I must emphasize that each persons path to simplicity is unique. I was reminded of that when I went to a nationwide Catholic Worker gathering a couple of weeks ago. I brought my cell phone, but expected to be "shamed," for having such an extravagent technological item. Much to my surprise there were all sorts of cell phones, and not one single negative remark about them! :lol:

So, I had made the mistake of expecting all Catholic Workers to be opposed to the idea of a cell phone and was very much surprised to see an understanding within the community that they can be very useful tools for organizers. I find the Catholic Worker to be a community that is very consistent in it's search for simplicity. Each of us must follow our own path and be in a constant process of discernment in terms of what are necessities and what aren't. This process might sound constraining, but it's actually challenging and extremely liberating.:D

kara

[NathanATX]

http://sfcompact.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thecompact/
Welcome to The Compact.

We are a group of individuals committed to a 12-month flight from the consumer grid (calendar year 2007).
The Compact has several aims (more or less prioritized below):

To go beyond recycling in trying to counteract the negative global environmental and socioeconomic impacts of disposable consumer culture and to support local businesses, farms, etc. -- a step that, we hope, inherits the revolutionary impulse of the Mayflower Compact.
To reduce clutter and waste in our homes (as in trash Compact-er).
To simplify our lives (as in Calm-pact)We've agreed to follow two principles (see exceptions etc. on our blog (http://sfcompact.blogspot.com/)).

#1 Don't buy new products of any kind (from stores, web sites, etc.)
#2 Borrow, barter, or buy used.

[Daniel]

Could you go without your cellphone? If it meant being able to eat- I think you would. While not conclusive, the article below makes one ponder this.

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece

Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?
Scientists claim radiation from handsets are to blame for mysterious 'colony collapse' of bees

By Geoffrey Lean and Harriet Shawcross
Published: 15 April 2007
It seems like the plot of a particularly far-fetched horror film. But some scientists suggest that our love of the mobile phone could cause massive food shortages, as the world's harvests fail.

They are putting forward the theory that radiation given off by mobile phones and other hi-tech gadgets is a possible answer to one of the more bizarre mysteries ever to happen in the natural world - the abrupt disappearance of the bees that pollinate crops. Late last week, some bee-keepers claimed that the phenomenon - which started in the US, then spread to continental Europe - was beginning to hit Britain as well.

The theory is that radiation from mobile phones interferes with bees' navigation systems, preventing the famously homeloving species from finding their way back to their hives. Improbable as it may seem, there is now evidence to back this up.

Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) occurs when a hive's inhabitants suddenly disappear, leaving only queens, eggs and a few immature workers, like so many apian Mary Celestes. The vanished bees are never found, but thought to die singly far from home. The parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.

The alarm was first sounded last autumn, but has now hit half of all American states. The West Coast is thought to have lost 60 per cent of its commercial bee population, with 70 per cent missing on the East Coast.

CCD has since spread to Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. And last week John Chapple, one of London's biggest bee-keepers, announced that 23 of his 40 hives have been abruptly abandoned.

Other apiarists have recorded losses in Scotland, Wales and north-west England, but the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs insisted: "There is absolutely no evidence of CCD in the UK."

The implications of the spread are alarming. Most of the world's crops depend on pollination by bees. Albert Einstein once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left".

No one knows why it is happening. Theories involving mites, pesticides, global warming and GM crops have been proposed, but all have drawbacks.

German research has long shown that bees' behaviour changes near power lines.

Now a limited study at Landau University has found that bees refuse to return to their hives when mobile phones are placed nearby. Dr Jochen Kuhn, who carried it out, said this could provide a "hint" to a possible cause.

Dr George Carlo, who headed a massive study by the US government and mobile phone industry of hazards from mobiles in the Nineties, said: "I am convinced the possibility is real."

The case against handsets

Evidence of dangers to people from mobile phones is increasing. But proof is still lacking, largely because many of the biggest perils, such as cancer, take decades to show up.

Most research on cancer has so far proved inconclusive. But an official Finnish study found that people who used the phones for more than 10 years were 40 per cent more likely to get a brain tumour on the same side as they held the handset.

Equally alarming, blue-chip Swedish research revealed that radiation from mobile phones killed off brain cells, suggesting that today's teenagers could go senile in the prime of their lives.

Studies in India and the US have raised the possibility that men who use mobile phones heavily have reduced sperm counts. And, more prosaically, doctors have identified the condition of "text thumb", a form of RSI from constant texting.

Professor Sir William Stewart, who has headed two official inquiries, warned that children under eight should not use mobiles and made a series of safety recommendations, largely ignored by ministers.

For all we know, if may not be cellphones alone, but the towers that transmit the signals that reach them. Those towers are all over the countryside.

It would be a great irony if mankind was forced into a simpler way of living because technology current technology prevented us from living at all. All that stuff we've dreamed up to make life easier may be making it harder.

[kara speltz]

Yikes. Interesting theory. I have been hearing that something is killing off the bees but that is the first I've heard of the cellphone theory. While I would be able to give up my own cellphone, it would be hard. My guess is the vast majority of Americans wouldn't.

[ladyinred]

I actually prefer simple living (of course on my budget I have to) But after doing alot of moving throughout the years(My mother's and my own) I frankly got tired of all the stuff. Perhaps the less is more motto applies here, not that I have to live with just the bare necessities, but I found that as I had less clutter and stuff in my life I actually liked it better. When my mother died , I just got rid of alot of stuff that she had, alot of it was donated, most of it was new or in very good condition but I just did not want to store it or keep it,alot of it I wouldn't use anyway...Her most expensive jewelry I wasn't interested in and let my brothers have it for their daughters. But I will tell you there was alot of STUFF.UUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH,LOL

[keltic63]

I wanted to bump this.

Last Saturday, our community had its annual Yard Sale. Many residents gathered their unwanted belongings and set up shop in their front yards, back yards, and garages. It was a beautiful, sunny, warm day. I'm sure that many families were able to reduce their clutter and pocket some change. It's a big event here.

Afterward, a local Mennonite church allowed people to bring their leftovers to them. The residual "stuff" was then sold at a rummage sale yesterday and today, as a fundraiser for a scholarship that the church provides to local HS graduates in memory of a beloved church member.

Today, my partner and I went to that rummage sale. I was blown away by the amount of stuff. I thought immediately of this thread. I also watched people pack their paper bags full, for a mere $3. I kept thinking of how much of these things were just unnecessary, many of them manufactured as impulse purchases, luxuries, or an attempt to cash in on some current fad. As we walked around the tables, workers would pull more stuff out and set it on the tables. I perused the same 3 aisles of tables, at least 3 times, and new items were on display each time. The amount of clothing was overwhelming, and I didn't even bother looking there.

I also thought about what will become of the "residuals" from that rummage sale. The sponsors are doing it again next week, and it seems that there will be more items that were not out today. I'm glad that this is a successful fundraiser for them. I'm sad that our society produces so much stuff that eventually becomes waste.

[kara speltz]

I wanted to bump this.

Last Saturday, our community had its annual Yard Sale. Many residents gathered their unwanted belongings and set up shop in their front yards, back yards, and garages. It was a beautiful, sunny, warm day. I'm sure that many families were able to reduce their clutter and pocket some change. It's a big event here.

Afterward, a local Mennonite church allowed people to bring their leftovers to them. The residual "stuff" was then sold at a rummage sale yesterday and today, as a fundraiser for a scholarship that the church provides to local HS graduates in memory of a beloved church member.

Today, my partner and I went to that rummage sale. I was blown away by the amount of stuff. I thought immediately of this thread. I also watched people pack their paper bags full, for a mere $3. I kept thinking of how much of these things were just unnecessary, many of them manufactured as impulse purchases, luxuries, or an attempt to cash in on some current fad. As we walked around the tables, workers would pull more stuff out and set it on the tables. I perused the same 3 aisles of tables, at least 3 times, and new items were on display each time. The amount of clothing was overwhelming, and I didn't even bother looking there.

I also thought about what will become of the "residuals" from that rummage sale. The sponsors are doing it again next week, and it seems that there will be more items that were not out today. I'm glad that this is a successful fundraiser for them. I'm sad that our society produces so much stuff that eventually becomes waste.

Thanks for the bump Steve. I actually had forgotten about this posting, which I used to try to put something new on it every several weeks or so.

We Americans take our abundance so much for granted. One of the things I love about the Mennonites is there commitment to peace and to simplicity. They are one of the few denominations that understands the relationship between materialism and violence. Since so many new folks have joined since this particular piece was posted, I think I'll put it up again, because the statistics are really staggering.

What if the world were a village of 100 people?

If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look like this. There would be:
61 Asians
12 Europeans
8 from the North America
5 from South America
13 Africans
50 would be female
50 would be male
67 would be non-Christian, 33 would be Christian
of the 67 non-Christian, 18 would be Muslim, 14 Hindu, 6 Buddhist, 13 other religions
89 would be heterosexual, 11 homosexual
59% of the entire world's wealth would be in the hands of only 6 people
43 live without basic sanitation
18 without improved water sources
14 would be unable to read
50 would suffer from malnutrition
1 would be near death, 1 would be near birth
Only 7 would have a secondary education
12 would own a computer
3 would have internet
one adult between the ages of 15-49 would have AIDS
if you have a refrigerator, a bed to sleep in a closet and a roof over your head you are richer than 75% of the rest of the world
if you have a bank account you are one of the 30 wealthiest people
18 will struggle to live on $1/day
53 will struggle to live on $2/day.

Breaking the figures down to numbers we can conceptualize really makes the desparity clear.

We Americans live with this abundance because others are being oppressed. Until this desparity is overcome there can be no peace. Gandhi said it all when he said there is enough for everyone's NEED, but not for everyones greed.

For more information on simple living, try googling simple living and you'll find all sorts of wonderful websites.

kara

[u-dog]

if you have a refrigerator, a bed to sleep in a closet and a roof over your head you are richer than 75% of the rest of the world

I have a closet somebody else could use !! :) though I don't know why they would want to!

[Jennifer5]

Steve, I understand where you're coming from and I feel the same way.


To address more of what both of you are talking about...

Everytime I'm told that my life isn't wonderful and that I'm poor next to some people... I feel sick. I feel sick just thinking that some people really do walk around thinking of what they have and not what they have to give.

If 59% of the world's wealth was in the hands of six, they would more likely then not, have enough wealth to secure the future of the other 94 and themselves. If 18 were without proper water, we would learn to share what we had. If 14 could not read we could sit and teach them one by one.

We could educate the masses, feed the hungry, clothe the cold, we could make this world a wonderful place if things could be viewed this way. If everyone just did what they could to help those in need, these problems could be fixed. But how many people even think of leaving the "American Lifestyle" (as it's probably best known), to help someone else.

Would you live in a smaller house? Would you never go out to eat or go to the movies, if you realized that really, it could save the life of one or more people?

We have to be reminded of these things (or at least I do). Because I read this, begin to think about... ramble on forever... but in the end, I feel like there is only one goal in life worth reaching. Help others, save someones life... even if you were able to bring one person with no food and education and bring them to a point where they could support a family of their own.... you would've accomplished something huge. :love:

(alright, enough rambling from me... sorry about that)

[kara speltz]

Steve, I understand where you're coming from and I feel the same way.


To address more of what both of you are talking about...

Everytime I'm told that my life isn't wonderful and that I'm poor next to some people... I feel sick. I feel sick just thinking that some people really do walk around thinking of what they have and not what they have to give.

If 59% of the world's wealth was in the hands of six, they would more likely then not, have enough wealth to secure the future of the other 94 and themselves. If 18 were without proper water, we would learn to share what we had. If 14 could not read we could sit and teach them one by one.

We could educate the masses, feed the hungry, clothe the cold, we could make this world a wonderful place if things could be viewed this way. If everyone just did what they could to help those in need, these problems could be fixed. But how many people even think of leaving the "American Lifestyle" (as it's probably best known), to help someone else.

Would you live in a smaller house? Would you never go out to eat or go to the movies, if you realized that really, it could save the life of one or more people?

We have to be reminded of these things (or at least I do). Because I read this, begin to think about... ramble on forever... but in the end, I feel like there is only one goal in life worth reaching. Help others, save someones life... even if you were able to bring one person with no food and education and bring them to a point where they could support a family of their own.... you would've accomplished something huge. :love:

(alright, enough rambling from me... sorry about that)

Dearest Jennifer: I love your ramblings. If only more people thought as you do, this imbalance wouldn't exist. kara

[Jennifer5]

Dearest Jennifer: I love your ramblings. If only more people thought as you do, this imbalance wouldn't exist. kara

:love: Thanks, it's nice to hear! :love:

[Pablo Rafael]

We could educate the masses, feed the hungry, clothe the cold, we could make this world a wonderful place if things could be viewed this way.

I think of the Bible verse that says that of those to whom much has been given, much will be required. One of the saddest things about our nation's influence in this world is that we could.

With just the money spent of the Iraqi war we could provide drugs for all those suffering from AIDS in the third world. By just removing crop subsidies we could double the price poor farmers in Africa get for their crops. We could easily provide help for refugess in Chad that have fled from the conflict in Darfur. We could help Iraqi refugees in Jordan who have fled from the war we created. We could use our nation's wealth and power to help those less fortunate. However we use it to secure our own power and aquire more wealth for ourselves. We are a nation that has been given much; I mourn over how little we do for others.

However, each of us individually still can do our part, even if our national government does not.


89% heterosexual, 11% homosexual

Kara, where did you get this statistic? It is the highest figure I have heard for the homosexual population. Usually I hear around the 5% figure.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[Jennifer5]

However, each of us individually still can do our part, even if our national government does not.

Very true and many of us sit an say what we could do, and don't even do our part. Welcome to the United States, the land of the lazy people. (well, sort of, there are many who do their part and more, they don't deserve to be called lazy...)


Kara, where did you get this statistic? It is the highest figure I have heard for the homosexual population. Usually I hear around the 5% figure.
The numbers all came off of a certain website, can't remember which...? But I think that 11% makes more sense, so don't you? I always heard it was 10... but that seems really low to me.

[kara speltz]

Kara, where did you get this statistic? It is the highest figure I have heard for the homosexual population. Usually I hear around the 5% figure.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

I got it from a website, http://www.miniature-earth.com/
The initial publication of this goes back to the 1990s and didn't include the gay factor, this updated one did. kara

[mjules]

This is a very interesting thread (and article!), and one that touches on a subject that gets a lot of discussion from me, my parents, and several of my closest friends.

My parents and I have severely downsized our living spaces in the last few years - we both live in travel trailers (RV's, kinda) full-time. Mine's older and smaller than theirs... mainly 'cause it's their old one. *laugh* The only thing I really miss about living in a bigger apartment? The kitchen. I swear, it's almost impossible to cook in my kitchen.

Aside from that, though, a topic of conversation for me lately has been the concept of communism (not Marxism/fascism, for clarification purposes) and trying to decipher how that would work on a wide level. Currently, society as I see it has a very "every man for himself" (forgive the gender-specific articles) mentality. On occasion, you see a banding together of small family units, but even then, survival of the fittest sometimes comes into play. I have young teenaged friends living at home whose parents do not pay for their food or clothing, for example. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to teach kids work ethic, but it strikes me as a further evidence of the breakdown of a caring mentality.

In a communistic society, everyone would have their own jobs and responsibilities, and everyone would still be fed. Wasn't that what the disciples and apostles did after Jesus' ascension? Didn't they sell all they had, pool their resources, and use the resulting pool to take care of everyone?

There are some people still caring for the "widows and orphans," don't get me wrong, but not nearly enough, especially when compared to people who are using their disproportionate wealth to support their own materialistic addictions (because it DOES become a compulsion) rather than striving to make a REAL difference. And I don't mean to condemn anyone when I say that, but I do mean to point out that simply donating finances to charity out of a sense of obligation, guilt, or as a method to feel good about one's own so-called altruism isn't actually *really* taking care of people. Along with practical items like food and clothing, there is a lot of emotional poverty in the world, too.

Living simply doesn't just mean cutting down on material possessions, I don't think. I think it might also have something to do with cutting back on the amount of emotional energy one dedicates to selfishness, and instead learning to genuinely love people, one individual at a time.

...Er, sorry, I kind of went off on a mini-rant there. :blush:

[Jennifer5]

No problem, ranting is common, I think most of us can relate. :love:

I definately understand what you're saying, I really wish that there was a more common understanding of these things. How do people continue to go on about what's wrong in their lives while being completely blind to all the could do to save anothers.


Even just for an example, for people who go out to the movies regularly.... not that that's wrong, but if instead you spent that money on helping someone else out, how much of a difference could that make in someone's life.

[kara speltz]

No problem, ranting is common, I think most of us can relate. :love:




Even just for an example, for people who go out to the movies regularly.... not that that's wrong, but if instead you spent that money on helping someone else out, how much of a difference could that make in someone's life.
Jennifer you are so right, we don't recognize the amount of privelege we have, and we almost never consider the possibility of doing without, so that others can have some of the basics that we take for granted.

The cost of a movie, these days, could often feed a family of four, with simple basic foods.

I wonder how many people take seriously the idea of tithing - giving back 10% of what we have. I'd love to see some discussion on that issue and also which groups people feel drawn to enough to go without.

Kara

[kara speltz]

[/U]
I wonder how many people take seriously the idea of tithing - giving back 10% of what we have. I'd love to see some discussion on that issue and also which groups people feel drawn to enough to go without.




Somehow it seems this question was a show stopper. So let me see if I can ask it another way. There was a time when people gave 10% of their income to their church or other worthy organizations, is this something that people still think is important? Or are there other ways to tithe such as 10% of our time and talents? Does that make the question easier to approach? kara

[Zerbie]

I liked what mjules had to say. Essentially, it starts with where the emotional energy is. The consumer society wants us to be materialistic so it plays on selfishness in order to get us to spend more. There has to be an internal energy shift to not being so interested in that material stuff before behavior is likely to change much.

I have always felt that while each of us has an entitlement to basic needs being met, I've also always felt we have an accompanying responsibility to see that the needs of those around us are met as well, insofar as we are capable of doing so.

Since I've always been a low earner, I still don't think of this in financial terms. I think of this in terms of time and energy. Now that my own basic needs are met I have time to give back, which I do by working on volunteer causes. Naturally, I gravitated to the cause that speaks to me the most. For whatever collage of reasons, that cause for me is the LGBT cause, and probably always will be - it always has been. There are other pressing issues - war, torture, hunger - but for whatever reason, I just belong to this one. I try to take whatever actions I can on other important matters and I do make financial donations sometimes, but I also go with my focus. That way, one matter receives 100% attention. I think it should be that way. There are people who give 100% attention to rescuing animals, others to ending war or poverty. We do what we're called.

But I also think that as a whole, society does not feel a sense of responsibility for its neighbors. Then there are those who believe a difference should be made but feel overwhelmed and disillusioned about the possibility of making even a small step. Truly though, the small steps are the way to go. We learn on small steps.

[BenL]

Somehow it seems this question was a show stopper. So let me see if I can ask it another way. There was a time when people gave 10% of their income to their church or other worthy organizations, is this something that people still think is important? Or are there other ways to tithe such as 10% of our time and talents? Does that make the question easier to approach? kara

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and maybe get knocked off it. I really think that the biblical notion of tithing is obsolete in this consumer society. It's meaningless to most ordinary Americans.

For one thing, it's an agricultural model. Ten percent of your crops and husbandry. I haven't planted anything in soil for more that 20 years, not even a houseplant. The only animal I have is a cat right now, though we've had dogs before. Somtimes I'm tempted to give the whole cat away. :eek:

The other problem with the tithe for me is that it's just another of the Old Testament dos and don'ts which most people pick and choose among. Of course, the insitutional church is very much invested in the concept of tithing and is certainly willing to push a guilt trip onto anyone who doesn't practice it.

I find that the people who talk big about tithing (as opposed to the ones who do it quietly) are among the most holier-than-thou people I have ever known. I think the model for giving ought to be God's grace. What we give out of obligation is worthless to our souls. It's what we give freely that lifts us up in God's sight.

I think of two principles when I think of charitable giving.

The first is that I should set the amount I'm going to give FIRST in my accounting and not LAST. The original idea of tithing is that it's the first gift, not the leftovers.

The second principle is that I give out abundance and not out of scarcity. God's abundant love is motive enough for me to give. It's kind of like the pay it forward movement. I have been blessed. Pass it on.

Uncle Sam (and some states and municipalities) already exact a legal tithe in the income tax. It's supposed to support, among many other things, the social safety net we as a society erect to keep people from abject poverty. The net seems to have many tears in it and is not always effective. But the tax is deducted before we ever see any of our money. The United Way operates on a similar principle: Convince people to use payroll deductions, so United Way gets its money first. Both approaches create resentment among a lot of people. This is not a political discussion, although it sure could turn into one.

We need a contemporary idiom for talking about giving ... and tithing just aint' it, in my opinion.

[kara speltz]

I think of two principles when I think of charitable giving.

The first is that I should set the amount I'm going to give FIRST in my accounting and not LAST. The original idea of tithing is that it's the first gift, not the leftovers.

The second principle is that I give out abundance and not out of scarcity. God's abundant love is motive enough for me to give. It's kind of like the pay it forward movement. I have been blessed. Pass it on.

We need a contemporary idiom for talking about giving ... and tithing just aint' it, in my opinion.

Hmm I agree with much of what you've said. Our tithing or gifting, or whatever you want to call it should be first, not last. But I don't think I agree with giving out of our abundance, unless I'm not understanding what you mean by that. The story of the poor women who gave her last pennies to me is a powerful statement of trusting in God.

I love the concept of "paying it foward." There was a time when my income was so low, I stopped giving, but ultimately I recognized that I needed to find a way to continue to donate what I had. I don't believe any of us is so poor that we can't adjust our budgets so as to give to causes we believe in, and whatever we call it, it seems to me its an important part of our spiritual process.

kara

[keltic63]

We need a contemporary idiom for talking about giving ... and tithing just aint' it, in my opinion.


tithing isn't a word that is heard much in my church, we prefer to talk about "stewardship." we realize that all we have is given to us by the grace of God and that we need to be good stewards of those gifts. Our giving then becomes a discussion about the best ways to use those gifts, often money, and each family/individual in the church is asked to consider an amount that they can direct to the church's work. Our particular denomination allows offerings to be directed in many different areas, so an appeal for money does not necessarily reflect a desire by someone to build up this local church's coffers. I can recall times when our accounts were heavy on the benevolence and missions, and the general fund (salaries and building maintenance) were low. There was no ethical or legal way to transfer money from one account to the other, AS IT SHOULD BE!

I do hear you on the archaic sound of "tithing" ;)

[BenL]

Hmm I agree with much of what you've said. Our tithing or gifting, or whatever you want to call it should be first, not last. But I don't think I agree with giving out of our abundance, unless I'm not understanding what you mean by that. The story of the poor women who gave her last pennies to me is a powerful statement of trusting in God.


The concept of the economy of abudance rather than the economy of scarcity is a view of existence that says we have been given SO much by God rather than the view that we're always lacking something. It's kinda the glass half full or the glass half empty sort of thing. If we're always hoarding because we never know what the next calamity is going to demand, then we can never see that we have an abundance to give. To me, this is kingdom economics. Consumerism on the other hand tries to convince people that they don't have enough, that they always need more.

Did you ever notice that the people who are trying convince you that you MUST have this car or that you must invest with them so you can have a wonderful retirement are in reality trying to separate you from your money?

The demands of honest stewardship recognize that you must be as prudent in your giving as you are in your spending. But give you must. With an open heart, out of the abundance you DO have no matter how little that is in worldy terms, and without an expectation that you will receive anything in return.

[kara speltz]

Thought it might be good to update this thread with some additional thoughts about simplicity.

- Simplicity means choosing our path through life consciously, deliberately, and of our own accord.

- As a path that emphasizes freedom, a choiceful simplicity also means staying focused, diving deep, and not being distracted by consumer culture. It means consciously organizing our lives so that we give our "true gifts" to the world -- which is to give the essence of ourselves.

- Simplicity means to feel such a sense of kinship with others that we "choose to live simply so that others may simply live."

- Simplicity means to choose ways of living that touch the Earth more lightly and that reduce our ecological footprint.

From Alternatives for Simple Living