Need to clarify

[mrg26ph]

Dear Folks,

I need something to clarify if same sex live together is acceptable in the eyes of God? This problem poses everytime I think of having one, but i'm afraid because of our Roman Catholics practices that prohibits same sex live together and also our society imposes on. If yes, please give me the justification. I need your help at this time, I dont know what to do.

Thanks

Marlo

[BruceChris]

Marlo, I read a lot of books on religion, and theology, but I am NO expert. And I have never been to the Phillipines. I sincerely hope that many of our other members respond to your concerns. You should have answers from many of our members to think about, and not just mine.

I would have to say that this matter should be between you and your God, or between you and your personal conscience. Many of us here believe that a loving, committed relationship is one of life's greatest rewards, and one of life's greatest accomplishments. We believe that it is the duty of the society that we live in to find ways to approve of, sanctify and bless these relationships. But as yet, very few governments, societies, or churches have done so, at least for same sex relationships.

I hope that you have some close friends to talk about this with. What gay community resources, support groups, or other organizations can you find that you can talk to?

You will also, of course, have to live in and live with the other people in your neighborhood, your church, and your job. I am sure that you know far more about your neighborhood than I do. I wish you the best of luck, and I am looking forward to seeing the replies that other members post.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Pablo Rafael]

Marlo,

I want to reinforce what Bruce said. I think his comments are right on the mark. I saw your original posting some time ago. I apologize for not responding sooner. You ask a hard question, and I have hesitated in answering. I can't really give advice so I will just share my viewpoint.

As a fellow Roman Catholic I know what situation you are in. When Pope Benedict first was chosen as Pope he was asked what teachings he planned to change in the church. He responded so rightly, that the teachings of the church come from the Bible and not from him or any other person; they are from the Word of God and are not his to change.

I would encourage you to prayerfully go to the Bible and study the teachings on marriage and relationships. I will share my own personal beliefs. They are strictly my own, don't take them for more than just a personal opinion.

I am fairly conservative in my beliefs and believe that the Bible is true Word of God. God created the sacrament of marriage as a union between two people. (I differ from the church in believing that same-sex unions are also blessed by God. It is my belief that the Christian church in general has misinterpreted the Bible teachings on homsexuality.) God calls us to be faithful to our spouse. The rules the Bible gives to be committed to one person apply to heterosexual and homosexual alike. Sex is not something to be regarded lightly but is to be practiced inside of marriage.

It is difficult for gay Catholics to have lifelong partners because the church will not recognize it as marriage. In the Bible times people were considered married when they made a committment to each other. God recognized this as marriage even when there was no official ceremony.

We Catholics are left with the options of:
1. Remain celibate.
2. Enter into a committed monogamous relationship without the blessing of the church.
3. Ignore the teachings of the Bible in regard to sexuality.
4. Leave the church and go to another denomination.

I think options 3 and 4 are very poor choices, and 1 and 2 are difficult choices. I don't know if this is of any help. It is a situation I have struggled with. I don't have any solid answers, and I often seem to contradict myself. I know that God calls us to live lives of purity. He also is a God of endless forgiveness and love. (I know I, for one, need a lot of that.) I pray that God will guide all of us as we work to do what he has called us to do.

Maybe some of the other readers of this posting are also Roman Catholic and have some opinions. (I have not found many who identify themselves as Catholic in the Soulforce forums, however.)

Yours in Christ, Pablo

[dewdrop_world]

Hi Marlo,

Definitely one of the most difficult questions we have to face, and one of the most difficult faith crises too. What do you do when there is a very real possibility that the way you were taught your faith (note, not necessarily the faith itself) might let you down?

Most of us are taught that being gay is not compatible with being Christian. For myself, and I know I'm speaking for many who are here on this forum, and many are not, I reached a point of conflict. I could draw no closer to God without fully accepting and loving myself, but I couldn't accept and love myself and at the same time accept without question what I had always been told.

It took some time for the conflict to mature, but eventually I had to consider where I should put my allegiance. Is my allegiance to God first and foremost, or is it first to a community that believes in God but which is perhaps fallible? I had really reached a point where nothing made sense except for looking inside myself for my own connection to God. I could no longer be satisfied with a priest or minister telling me, "This is what it means to know God."

After much prayer, I now understand that God is always there, has always been there, and that God's love is not conditioned on obeying every last letter of the Law. The spirit of the law is what really matters.

- What does it mean to trust God completely? My opinion is that obsessing over commandments, as fundamentalists do, suggests a lack of trust in God, as if one must "earn" God's favor through "good behavior." What is it like to trust in God without that anxiety?

Note, this is rather different from trusting the Pope :)

- What does it take for you to love yourself fully, as a child of God?

- If loving yourself fully, as a child of God, means that you embrace your sexuality (I don't think everyone must necessarily embrace it, but most of us do), then what is more important? Obeying scripture or religious authority to the detriment of your relationship with God and with yourself, or worshipping God even when others don't recognize God in it?

We Catholics are left with the options of:
1. Remain celibate.
2. Enter into a committed monogamous relationship without the blessing of the church.
3. Ignore the teachings of the Bible in regard to sexuality.
4. Leave the church and go to another denomination.
I think #3 is a bit harshly stated. For one, did the Biblical authors have any models for healthy, monogamous same-sex relationships? Were they condemning that, or rather things like sexual excess, temple prostitution, etc.?

I view #3 not as "ignoring," but as placing the usual verses in their proper place. To me, I would rather be healthy and express my communion with God by being a whole person, grateful for being made as I am. Scriptures are guidelines, but they can be misused, and I would rather put my trust in prayer (instead of someone else's authority, which might be, and often is, abusive).

Good luck on your journey. It's hard to leave the safety of conforming to a religious community's expectations. But if the community can grant approval, it can also take it away. What I've discovered in my journey is a connection with God that no one can ever rob from me, because it's real and doesn't depend on anyone saying it's either good or bad. It just is. You have my sincerest hope that you find your way to this same kind of peace.

James

[Pablo Rafael]

I think #3 is a bit harshly stated. For one, did the Biblical authors have any models for healthy, monogamous same-sex relationships? Were they condemning that, or rather things like sexual excess, temple prostitution, etc.?

I view #3 not as "ignoring," but as placing the usual verses in their proper place. To me, I would rather be healthy and express my communion with God by being a whole person, grateful for being made as I am. Scriptures are guidelines, but they can be misused, and I would rather put my trust in prayer (instead of someone else's authority, which might be, and often is, abusive).



James,

I quite agree with you. My point #3 was poorly stated. I believe there is a great difference between what the Bible teaches about sexuality and
how people have interpreted Biblical teachings over the years. Sexual abuses and excesses are clearly denounced by the Bible. I believe that loving same-sex relationships are pleasing to God. Though many have demonized same-sex relationships, I don't feel that the Bible takes that stand at all. In the end we all need to study the Bible and come to God in prayer. Believing something just because "that's the way I was taught" is a very poor statement of faith.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[mrg26ph]

Dear Folks,

Thanks for the enlightenment I really appreciate your answers, Muchas gracias from the bottom my heart. I wanted you to know that there are times in my life that I wanted to die because I dont know what to do, lot of pressures from the family and my relatives, Im aging already and I want to be happy but our society imposes on harsh words for us gays. But for now I accept myself for who am I and continue the journey in this terrible world I live but the most important I am love by God who understands me beyond all human understanding.

Thanks Bruce, James and Pablo.

[scott snedeker]

Dear mrg26ph

Any expression of love for another human pleases God. To share a life together in love is an affirmation of your true nature. God created you gay so that you would love another of his gay children who needs you. This is his will. That's why love-making feels good. When you make love you make God happy as he shares in your joy

Love and affirmation,

Scotty :cowboy:

[scott snedeker]

Dear marlo,


Had another thought, I now get that you have been told by church elders that they believe God does not want gay people to share love and life in the sanctuary of a home. This, of course, could not possibly be his will. In telling you this in error they are NOT pleasing him because it is a sin to misrepresent God in a way that stifles joy. They risk their souls by doing this. My advice is to pray for them to see their error and their sin so that they can make amends. Look forward to their joy when they receive forgiveness for their sins after seeing the light of God. God created you gay for a reason and the reason is to love!


Scotty :cowboy:

[hankzzz]

Marlo, don't worry about it as you are definately not the only gay in the Philippines and certainly not the only gay Catholic. I have talked to several people over there, I know it is somewhat more taboo than here, but there are many others.

As for right and wrong, follow your heart. I believe that God speaks to us directly (if we listen) and that the scriptures are only words, unless you get guidance from above.

I had considered traveling to your beautiful country and have a lot of respect for Filipinos.

I would definately advise you seeking a life partner for a monagamous relationship - as I am sure you will. Perhaps, the person you meet will help you with family and church issues and you can work together on it ;)

[ladyinred]

I think the comments on this about this issue are very insightful and wise. I commend you all in your own spiritual authenticity rather than trying to reach God outside in some traditional way or through what you've been "taught" to believe.:)