Cyber Protest in Heterosexist Message Boards

[Huggins293]

As Martin Luther King protested in neighborhoods where racism was the strongest, as cyber activists we need to protest on forums where heterosexism where it is the strongest. Preaching among those who embrace the pro-gay message provides support but will not influence a culture that inspires laws that culturally oppress gays and lesbians.

Please join the fight to protest boards that are infected and dominated by hetero-supremacy. Let’s be 100% to kindly exposing the lies, narrow mindedness, and hypocrisy in the very justifications of heterosexism.

The aims of civil protest are to:

1. Repeatedly expose the unfairness, un-objectivity in written justifications of heterosexism.
2. To be committed to practice respect and literary pacifism in our protest, no matter how belligerent, hateful, and contemptuous the reaction to our protest is. Even if our objectors react in hostility to our words convicting heterosexism, we will continue to be respectful and non-attacking in our responses. We may fail at this aim at times but our commitment will remain.
3. Purposely disobey the demand to self impose censorship of our message of truth because it disturbs objectors.
4. Establish within heterosexist boards a micro-atmosphere that is supportive of those who have been abused, degraded and disowned. (Note: Some gays probably have noticed many heterosexist posts and feel powerless against it.)
5. Establish and sustain a literary presence of opposition to heterosexist culture in hope that even the most vocal and passionate heterosexist will someday realize their spiritual violence and be re-deemed.

When we expose the corruption in hetero-sexism, then we eliminate the reality of laws that support and celebrate hetero-supremacy. In my future posts, I will point out message boards that foster and nurture heterosexism, I plead with you to join others in witnessing to the truth and confronting the lies, hypocrisy, distortion said by even the most loving and well intentioned objectors.

[Huggins293]

Please delete this thread I will move it to the activism board.

[ladyinred]

I do that alot on forums. Well it may not convince everyone, but I know my messages reach quite a few readers on the forums I post on.. and I'm sure it will get many people to think at least. I personally don't react negatively to the resistance I get. But as far as being timid about speaking out, that I'm not,lol You should've seen the emails I used to send to FRC. I was quite a thorn in their side. Unfortunately they didn't really get it and probably didn't want to. Congressmen too. They probably at times see me as a pain in the butt but they still hear from me.I've even gotten friends to do the same. I may not be winning any popularity contests with them, but oh well.. I got that from my dad, he'd often say the same thing,"I'm not here to win your approval or popularity contests.." My mother could be a spitfire too.

[ladyinred]

I heard this on a PBS special on Dr Wayne Dyer.. And he stated,"Be independent of the good opinions of other folks." This is a component of spiritual strength . Mariam Williamson , stated in her book...."and the old school of thought probably won't like ya either." But we need innovative people and pioneers , people who aren't afraid to voice their thoughts and opinions, even if it goes against the status quo...and convention. And we can follow Christ's example in this. It's the silence and passivity that gives other people too much power and authority over our lives..(Like the government and it's current state of affairs) It works in their favor of course, but not ours. The blind guides at the top of the pinnacle are misleading the American people, they shouldn't be our shepards or our champions of democracy. (they are hardly examples for the rest of us to follow)The American people need to take that power back. Until we do, and demand accountability and integrity from our leaders things will not change. We the people will have vanished into oblivion under an autocratic rule, rather than a democracy. Absolute power does corrupt. That's why our original founding fathers had checks and balances put into the constitution.

[scott snedeker]

I side with Abraham in this one. The more attention you give a thing you don't want, the more you activate it. Creating something you do like that attracts the vibration of tolerance, understanding and kindness that is present (at least to a small degree) in everyone would be preferable.:) I recommend to leave them alone or if you feel you must you might attract them by advertising a site that promotes what you want. BUT DON'T ARGUE IN THEIR FORUM! :mad: :) In kentucky it is said "If ya rassle with skunks , ya end up stinkin!" Or similarly "You can't win a argument with an idiot, and observers may not be able to tell the difference."


Scotty:cowboy:

[ladyinred]

I agree Scotty, but I was not arguing with people on these sites, only presenting view points. Arguing I learned the hard way gets you nowhere.. After a while you just accept that there are people who will not change their mind in spite of how you present your views. But the point is I also came across to alot of people who also supported my views, as well. I even get courteous replies from people who don't agree with me often times ,because I don't attack them for their views. I will just politely say , we just don't see eye to eye on this one.. Not everyone agrees with me or shares my views. I think many people are so conditioned and engrained by this culture and religious fundalmentalism(and also the lies of the radical religious right) to believe that gay people are destroying their families and our culture and the "moral fabric" of our society as well as trying to undermine traditional marriages between man and wife. They see us as a threat, in that they are told we are trying to convert their children to our lifestyle and so forth. Well there has to be a voice of reason to counter these misconceptions and lies or distortions and hopefully dispell the fears that many of these people have about the GLBT community. If we don't speak up for our own who will?

[ladyinred]

My tactic is to inform people that the GLBT community has no interest in undermining their family values or their traditions, such as the institution of marriage of man and wife. We have no interest in converting their children to our lifestyle, and that we are not all a bunch of pedophiles who prey on children ( according to the FRC we are, and disease ridden, drug addicts, promiscious among other things... well we know these problems are a part of the heterosexual culture as well .Aids is not a gay disease( Otherwise only gays would get it.) We see the evidence of aids running rampant in other cultures such as Africa which has led to millions of children being orphans..so it is widespread in the heterosexual culture over there as well, and other countries such as Thailand have the same problem. But the stigma of aids has stayed with the gay community largely because of the media and misinformation from other sources such as th FRC and the radical right. But we also want to let them know we will not tolerate being treated like second class citizens who have no rights or don't deserve equal and fair treatment under the law. Gay partners should have the same rights as married couples because they have the same legitimate needs as heterosexual couples, such as medical care, housing, jobs, support for their spouses and children and legal protection also to protect them from discrimination that would undermine and threaten their livlihood and legal rights. According to the constitution we should have equal protection under the law, but now you have the radical right screaming that the gay community is threatening to destroy the fabric of society and their families among other things. Gay people have been unfairly scapegoated for everything that goes wrong in our country from divorce, to abortion and accused of every depravity that they can think of . Is that fair? And we are supposed to just shut our mouths and go along with this?

[scott snedeker]

lady in Red

I Agree that we must stand up and be seen and I myself am publically Gay in my community. As a physician I have a lot of visibility. But I still would not go to a fundamentalist Baptist church for example and tell them that their adherence to verses in Leviticus was wrong. Not that I lack courage but more because I would further polarize opposition to acceptance of gay people. The quote that I read in the previous thread on this topic from huggins' "debater" was a demeaning question based on a hideous filthy baited vulgar premise that any response would only have strengthened its "legitimacy"

Civilized dialogue in a neutral circumstance where you can be an example to attract and activate a dormant positive emotional vibration in someone is definitely beneficial to our cause. But opposition usually polarizes opposing emotional vibration and is usually a less effectiveand less efficient.

The fact that we are attracting each other and strengthening each other by our dialogue is further evidence of the undeniable force of our cause. You are a teacher and a leader. Attraction I feel is the strongest force in the universe. With skill you can be powerful in attracting others toward a goal of comfort and acceptance.

Sharing your gay life experience with someone naiive can be the most genuine and strongest attraction. below is my letter to the editor published June of this year The content represents my belief in an attraction-based universe

Dear Editor,
Imagine the time in your adolescence when you were discovering your sexual awareness. Now Imagine being told that your feelings of sexual attraction make you a worthless deviant because you feel them toward the same sex. So to survive you hide this secret and stifle the growth of your emerging identity and learn to hate yourself. This is psychological child abuse at its worst.
Then imagine the miracle of courageously overcoming this self loathing imposed by your past abuse. This epiphany restores your sense that you are a person deserving of happiness, equal worthiness and love. A hard fought internal struggle won by myself and many other gay people.

Some say being gay is a choice. They are half right. You can choose to be true to your nature and experience passion, romance and love, all essential parts of a balanced normal life. Or you can falsely pretend to be attracted to the opposite sex and live an empty passionless lie.
The undeniable battle for equal civil rights for gay people is on in Washington. I believe our nation's destiny is to overcome homophobia. However we need to stop permitting the psychological abuse of our children. A pivotal point of history is in the making. Ask yourself. Do you wish to align with those who hate, fear and discriminate or those who will help overcome obstacles in pursuit of the ideal of equality and healing?

Thanks for commnuing with me

Scotty:cowboy:

[ladyinred]

And I agree with you, arguing over who is right and wrong is usually getting into a an endless debate that you can't win,often escalating into a warfare of words and insults. I try to avoid that. But I personally wouldn't step into a baptist church and stand up among the congregation and start preaching to them how wrong they were. But what I want to see more in the gay community is a way to help dispell fears and misconceptions among the heterosexual community. As long as they see us as a "threat", we are not going to get anywhere. How can we project an image that we are not their enemies for example? That we are not out to destroy their marriages or family life? How can we offset the lies told by the radical right to scare them wittless into thinking that gays want to spread diseases like aids or prey on their children? That we are somehow depraved and abnormal and want to convert their children to our way of life. These people believe what they are being told literally. I even know a guy who had a list about all the things homosexuals supposedly do and what to watch out for. There should be dialogue and way to promote more understanding and less fear. It shouldn't be our aim to attack them and put them on the defensive but to help promote more understanding and to help dispell the many fears people have about homosexuals.We don't gain anything by fighting a losing battle by assaulting them. But we do have the right to promote what is in our best interests and to discourage violence and hatred , especially if these are weapons being encouraged by the radical right toward the glbt community.. If we don't stand up to that... then it will basically legitimize what they are saying and doing.

[ladyinred]

A quote I remember reading .."Fear is the parent of cruelty." What people see as a threat or as frightening to them often has lead to violence toward certain groups in the past as well as present, including gays. When a certain group of people are demonized or misunderstood ,we see the results from a historical perspective as well, the "witch hunt " is on to root out the "undesirables."

[ladyinred]

And we wonder why so many gays are still in the closet or secretive? Not because they are cowards by any means.. My ex didn't come out at work but kept her mouth shut about her sexual orientation, because the company she worked for was not what you call a "gay friendly environment." When I was working I kept my mouth shut too. I didn't want to open myself up to hostility or harrassment that could be directed at me. (And I basically felt it was none of their damned business anyway) It was a matter of personal survival for both of us, and trust me we have been harrassed in the past.. by neighbors who lived above us and were egging our apartment, throwing trash on our balcony and bashed in the front window on my ex's truck. We didn't even tell people there we were gay... But the woman who lived upstairs basically said to Terry , who was minding her own business and coming home from work... ""You are going to rot in hell for your immoral lifestyle." (And she was no Christian by any means..) And her thug boyfriend used to just walk on by us as if we didn't exist.. So I can relate to the plight of many gay people who are not totally out or still in the closet. Who wants that kind of abuse directed at them?

[ladyinred]

I was just reading on James Dobson and false focus of the family. Some of his claims are so outlandish. Like saying that gays came from dysfunctional familes with distant fathers and controlling mothers. What a bunch of bunk. How many heterosexual people come out of the same types of dysfunctional homes? And I can think of many.And the one on homosexuality is a sign of feeling inferior as a man. LOL I can think of numerous heterosexual men who have self image problems. If they were so secure in their own masculinity then why are they so homophobic? I've even seen heterosexual fathers thinking hugging or kissing their sons is so "queer",or changing a baby's diapers makes them whimps or unmasculine. Talk about the hangups ... The fact is dysfunctional family behavior is rampant in the heterosexual culture. My sister in law had a really abusive upbringing with her mom and it didn't result in her being a lesbian. They say that gays were molested as children as well. But to debunk this one ,many heterosexuals were too , it didn't affect their orientation, otherwise every kid who was molested would be gay or lesbian,and obviously that is not the case. I can tell you about the screwed up marriages,kids with mental and emotional and physical abuse... I know there is alot of research that disputes the fallacies of Narth research. But to me , just common sense does it. I've just found out through life experiences, observing people and reading alot,especially on the psychology of dysfunctional families as well as talking to people about their experiences in life and paying attention to their attitudes.When I read this I just had to smile to myself and think ,"Oh well." Maybe I ought to be a psychologist lol. James Dobson and his claim just sounds like more pseudo science to me.......:rolleyes: :eek: :sick: :disagree:

[ladyinred]

Mental health.. While I'm not a psychologist or an "expert on mental health." I think there are keys to what makes us mentally healthy. I think it was Thomas Paine who quoted ,"Happy is the man who is mentally faithful to himself." And it boils down to self image. If you have a positive, loving image of yourself, you tend to show these feelings toward others as well. The key to happiness I guess is to live the life that is uniquely yours and self fullfilment. Having a positive outlook on life and faith in your own abilities and potential and possibilities. And also as Shakespeare quoted. "To thine own self be true." Mine is personally to never think of myself as inferior to other people. I was a high school drop out, flunked English several times,(I was "stoopid" ) had barely one semester of college. Don't have alot of money am now single. But the ways I've grown as a person and my ability to be more compassionate and understanding of others as well as my contributions to my relationships and society is what I feel I excell at. I might be a pauper. But I'm still a queen.LOL People have told me I have a keen mind and a great deal of wisdom and insight as well. I also love music and play the guitar and diddle around on it alot, basically coming up with my little compositions and style of playing. I love animals too.And kids. They can be so fun to be around ( But if you are a parent like me, you also have the challenges of raising them, and I have had to learn a great deal about patience) Plus a sense of humor helps. I try to be open minded and objective. Things don't bother me like they used to because I don't take too much personally.. So I say make the most of life and be happy.. that's what counts. I also like poetry. So if any of you are talented in that area , post it ,I'd like to read it.. I have friends who like to write short stories as well, and I am amazed and in awe of the talent they have for writing...(and sometimes a little envious)But I admire people with a flair for creativity.:love: :cool: :lol:

[scott snedeker]

Lady in Red

Just for the record I doooo Like your style! :)

And It can be maddening when our leaders claim they are entitled to legislate their hate toward gay people and permanently incorporate it into our nation's constitution. This example sends a message of sanctioned malevolence and inequality to our children learning in school today.
This is homphobia at its most shameful.

It is important for gay gals and fellas to see the cause of low self esteem is not that they are gay ( thus deficient) but that society is anti-gay (thus deficient). Adolescence is a critical time in emotional development. A gay girl should get encouragement from parents and society for example: "sweetheart your girlfriend is so nice and pretty and I like her sense of humor! Why don't you ask her to come for dinner so we can get to know her! " But I can tell you that this almost certainly did not happen in your home when you were 16! Quite the opposite I'm sure!

Anger and rebellion are sometimes necessary steps up from catatonic fear and low self esteem. It may be a vital step in changing the "blame" from yourself to those who really are guilty. And hold them accountable. Each step up the emotional scale feels better than the previous lower one. And there is an ecstasy during each transition For a period of time this step is natural and healthy But to stay there is a mistake. To skip it, however, is probably a mistake too.
I find that in my current position on my emotional journey that I can attract so much more strongly than I can oppose. Because of my comfort from the progress made toward gay equality i am optimistic. This optimism can be contagious and inspire optimism in others! I'm thrilled with the progress so far! And I bounce with anticipation with the progress to come!

scotty:cowboy:

[Huggins293]

I do that alot on forums. Well it may not convince everyone, but I know my messages reach quite a few readers on the forums I post on.. and I'm sure it will get many people to think at least.


:) I think my messages do as well. Again critics of this tactic feel that we are trying to convert a bigoted board over night. That is not the case. The aim is to be a witness to the evils of heteorsexism on a consistent basis and not allow this evil to be ignored by silence.

I personally don't react negatively to the resistance I get. But as far as being timid about speaking out, that I'm not,lol You should've seen the emails I used to send to FRC. I was quite a thorn in their side.

:) I used to retaliate against resistance, but now I see this as a form of spiritual violence. As a witness to the evil, I should not fight spiritual violence with spiritual violence. I should fight it with kindness, love, compassion and sorrow. That is what I intend my responses to be. My rare anger should not be essentially in rage but out of pain and sorrow. It should be a means to show holders of the oppressive sentiment how dangerous and unjust their sentiment is.

[Huggins293]

I was just reading on James Dobson and false focus of the family. Some of his claims are so outlandish. Like saying that gays came from dysfunctional familes with distant fathers and controlling mothers. What a bunch of bunk.
Although Dobsons perception of homosexuals is distorted, it would be unfair to merely focus on him. His perception is ingrained in the common people of this country. I know a co-worker who is committed to good will but shares Dobsons view. Their uneasiness with homosexual behavior is so great that it causes distorted views of homosexual behavior. Like Dobson, everyone on this board has an inaccurate view about an individual and even a group. It is hard for me to say this but we should see Dobson in many light as we see ourselves.

[Huggins293]

After a while you just accept that there are people who will not change their mind in spite of how you present your views.
When we present our views it should be in the hope that they will someday change. Yes, there will be people who never eradicate their bigotry, but we can not be certain of it.

Well there has to be a voice of reason to counter these misconceptions and lies or distortions and hopefully dispell the fears that many of these people have about the GLBT community. If we don't speak up for our own who will?

Exactly and we witness on predominant heterosexist boards who collectively support the wrong message. Our witnessing does not only include having dialogue with our objectors, it equally includes conversing amongst ourselves and reflecting on the oppressive sentiments on these boards. If our objectors are too hostile there will be enough activists who can turn to one another and witness the evil inflicted upon us for telling the truth.

When we participate on the board as witnesses it is not neccassarily to converse with the most stubborn and hostile objector. We can converse among ourselves and politley critique our objector's motives and tactics. We also can take a breather from those boards to rest our souls, and again demonstrate the evil with compassion, kindness and love.

If 10 activists visit a brutally, hostile heterosexists board and witness. Others who are hurt by heteosexist sentiment will see support of them when they need it most. Our goal is not only to hope to someday redeem the objector but to support the oppressed.

:) Lady in red, I think you would be a good ally. Can you join us on one of these boards with strong anti-gay sentiment. I will give you the web address in a minute.


I applaud your attitude.
Thank YOu
Huggs

[scott snedeker]

ladyinred & huggins:)


I agree that more discussion on these message boards keeps our issue current. This inevitably works in our favor if reassuring and attractive examples are offered creating familiarity.:) Familiarity un-demonizes us by allaying fear. If we appear as normal, feeling humans and not as targets It is harder to attack us without a feeling of accountability. Present opposition:mad: and we strengthen our "target status."


My impression from previous messages was that these were chat rooms dominated by neanderthals who depended on demonizing us for gratification as a compenation for their low self-esteem. Perhaps my first impression was inaccurate. I was under the impression that these boards were created as an instrument for such gratification. Gays chatting on these message boards thus would only provide fodder to serve their purpose . This best explains why I so strongly recommended against participating on these message boards. If I shot from the hip because of my ignorance I apologize to you both. I suspect that, as usual, that the best interpretation is probably somewhere midway between our perceptions.


Scotty:cowboy::love:

[Huggins293]

ladyinred & huggins:)
I agree that more discussion on these message boards keeps our issue current. This inevitably works in our favor if reassuring and attractive examples are offered creating familiarity.:) Familiarity un-demonizes us by allaying fear. If we appear as normal, feeling humans and not as targets It is harder to attack us without a feeling of accountability. Present opposition:mad: and we strengthen our "target status."


My impression from previous messages was that these were chat rooms dominated by neanderthals who depended on demonizing us for gratification as a compenation for their low self-esteem.
From first impression you would think that however from my experience and reality. These members share the same view that my family, many of my friends and co-workers already have. Many anti-gays do not have low-self esteem neccessarily, they simply have a brutal intolerance of gay culture. They also do not depend on demonizing gays because the gay issue has never been brought up as frequently until I arrived on the board.

I'd say they suffer the brutal bigotry that whites suffered in the south in the 1960s and 50s. These are the whites black leaders addressed with non-violence.




Perhaps my first impression was inaccurate. I was under the impression that these boards were created as an instrument for such gratification.
These boards discuss far more topics than gays and lesbians. However, the culture on these boards is brutally heterosexist. They clearly have an unwritten policy of excluding gays from the sex and relationship board. The gay or lesbian must assimilate and give the false impression that he or she is str8 in order to peacefully be welcom on the board.



Gays chatting on these message boards thus would only provide fodder to serve their purpose.

The two heterosexist boards I feel are not for that purpose. The jamaican star board simply wants to be free to believe that gays are morally inferrior it is written in their laws and culture. The x-tian board simply feels they are being attacked for their heterosexism. My persistence of brining up gay inequality irriates many of them and that is when there heterosexist reactions become very strong.

Alhtough I do empahtize with your view that aggressive protest in hostile heterosexist boards will provide fodder to assault gays, this is board reflects the culture that oppresses gays. It is the culture that has influenced laws that ban gay marriage, gay sex and gay adoption. If we do not address this culture in kindness but firmness, our silence only allows this cancer to remain and even grow.

In boards that have hostile heterosexism, we must maintain a presence. If our objectors continue to be brutally hostile even when we are kind and compassionate, we must turn to each other for discussion, but we should not leave, because there are gays on these boards who live under this social oppression and need a voice that defends them and uplifts them. These boards talk about a lot of issues and subjects that appeal to both gays/lesbians and straights. Thus, it is a public forum where everyone should feel comfortable. Clearly, gays are tempted to feel uncomfortable on a sex/relationship board with heavy heterosexist sentiment.

Nevertheless, we still must address our objectors as people who are misguided and have a distorted perception of homosexuality. Their misunderstanding not them as individuals. We must address their questions with the highest class and dignity no matter how brutally hostile and offensive they may be. We are cyberspace the ability to numb ourselves form degradation is much easier than numbing it in person(which some great men have). I know in committment to this ideal, we may fail at times, but we must maintain the commitment to words that are not violent to our objectors.


This best explains why I so strongly recommended against participating on these message boards. If I shot from the hip because of my ignorance I apologize to you both. I suspect that, as usual, that the best interpretation is probably somewhere midway between our perceptions.

Please do not aplogize you simply have a different means of activism. I feel that if our activism is done to elevate esteem of the oppressed while in hopes of redeeming the oppressor, it is worth it. As I have said many times our goal is not to redeem heterosexists within a couple of days, it is to someday redeem them while uplifting the oppressed.

Thank You
Huggs

[1engelbythesea]

The fact that we are attracting each other and strengthening each other by our dialogue is further evidence of the undeniable force of our cause. You are a teacher and a leader. Attraction I feel is the strongest force in the universe. With skill you can be powerful in attracting others toward a goal of comfort and acceptance.
Scott and other posters I do agree with the above. Attraction is the strongest force in the universe. It is hard to hate someone when you realize that they are just "like you" a loving, caring human being, interested in making this a better world, adding and not substracting to the community. We need to keep on being who we are, arguments have never gained new friends. :pray:

[scott snedeker]

I'd like to thank you fellas for your insight and views. our dialogue has directed me to focus my thoughts to make my understanding more tangiable. Keep up the spirit! God put you here to remove the barriers to love! Hetereosexism is just another. Love yourself too. You owe it to your posterity to experience joy today!


scotty:cowboy: