Speaking in Tongues

[Daniel]

I've always wondered what happens in the brain when one speaks in tongues. And lo and behold, there is an article in this morning's paper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/health/07brain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania took brain images of five women while they spoke in tongues and found that their frontal lobes — the thinking, willful part of the brain through which people control what they do — were relatively quiet, as were the language centers.

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The images, appearing in the current issue of the journal Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, pinpoint the most active areas of the brain. The images are the first of their kind taken during this spoken religious practice, which has roots in the Old and New Testaments and in charismatic churches established in the United States around the turn of the 19th century.

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The new findings contrasted sharply with images taken of other spiritually inspired mental states like meditation, which is often a highly focused mental exercise, activating the frontal lobes.

The scans also showed a dip in the activity of a region called the left caudate. “The findings from the frontal lobes are very clear, and make sense, but the caudate is usually active when you have positive affect, pleasure, positive emotions,” said Dr. James A. Coan, a psychologist at the University of Virginia. “So it’s not so clear what that finding says” about speaking in tongues.

The caudate area is also involved in motor and emotional control, Dr. Newberg said, so it may be that practitioners, while mindful of their circumstances, nonetheless cede some control over their bodies and emotions.

Being someone who mediates and who can also swing into speaking in tongues at the drop of a hat, I can say from experience that there is a difference in feeling between the two activities. Now I know why.

What's it all add up to? You got me. But a few thoughts comes to mind.

The matter of a drop of activity in the caudate suggests to this reader that (are the scientists being polite here?) the activity is itself is lacking something, meditation being, as the scientists put it, "a highly focused mental exercise", one that activates the part of the brain that has a measurable and beneficial effect.

Fundamentalists are always talking about the Spirit taking them over. Considering the evidence here, is it any wonder that they also yammer about demons taking one over as well? It's even been suggested by fundamentalists that those who meditate open themselves up to demonic forces. Well. Guess what? It's those who are speaking in tongues that are not using all of their brains. ;)

[Daniel]

Here are the pics that accompanied the article.

[marutidas]

I have always been kinda, well, for lack of a better word, wierded out by televagelist speaking in toungues, If you know anything about about altered states knows that they are faking it. But the other cases they seem to be whipped up in some kind of frezy. The preacher may not be feeling it, but their followers are.

It has similarities to Spirit Possesion in Vodou, where people are said to take on the personalites of the spirits being honored at the ceremony, But I would say that a Hougan( High priest) or a Mambo(High priestess) feels the "spirit" more that a televagelist preacher does. It's all very fascinating.

[mtatum4496]

One of the few times I ever saw the gift of tongues present in a worship service was in a setting few people would think of - in a Quaker meeting for worship.

When thinking of speaking in tongues, most people think of the exhuberant acts of the Pentecostals. This was not the case in this Quaker meeting based on silence that I attended on Easter Sunday in 1983.

At one point in the service, a woman got up and began to speak in a melodious voice; she did not raise her voice, but spoke in normal tones. I did not understand the words she spoke. Yet, the words seemed to be positive in their energy.

After the woman sat down, a few moments passed. A gentleman across the room rose and said in a quite voice "I have been given the interpretation". He proceeded to offer up words of encourgement to the meeting, which apparently had been dealing with something of great importance of late, and many of the members were weary. Again, as he spoke, I felt positive affirmation that the message was from God and directed to those who worshipped in that place.

I have to wonder - what would the brain scan of a Quaker who worshipped on the basis of centering down and waiting in the silence, and then was given the gift of tongues reveal?

[kara speltz]

I grew up Roman Catholic and always thought speaking in tongues had absolutely no basis. My ex-husband did a workshop in living in the Spirit and actually received the gift of tongues. I spoke with my priest about it, because I had only the highest respect for my ex-husband. He actually told me he had the gift and that not all charismatic Catholics were reactionary. He said there was a very progressive group of charismatics. Shortly after that, I got an opportunity to do a life in the Spirit workshop and really had hoped, I too, might learn the gift of tongues, but to no avail.

I recall telling my pastor, who I was very close to, of my disappointment and he blew me away when he said to me, Kara, the gift of tongues is one of the least of the Holy Spirit's gifts, believe me you have many, don't worry about speaking in tongues. That was good advice to me. And while I still sometimes think some who speak in tongues have ulterior motives, I also know that there are some, who like the Quaker woman are sharing their wonderful gift.

All things are possible with God, of that I have no question.

Kara

[Daniel]

Kara- I started speaking in tongues at the age of 15 when my older sister (who had been converted and witnessed to me) placed her hands on my head and said a prayer. I remember very clearly having the belief that 1) something wonderful was going to happen 2) I could actually 'do this' and 3) the Holy Spirit was a real force of some sort and was going to give me something. I've experienced a change in many of the concepts/ideas that I held since that time (strictly speaking, Buddhists aren't concerned with 'God'). I can, however, still speak in tongues.

The cultural and religious context in which speaking in tongues happens is fascinating. We bring so many layered meanings to it. And it's not that I'm trying to knock it here, though I admit that the last line of my first post was provocative. I played with the assumption that 'more' is 'better', which, strictly speaking, isn't necessarily so. I think a scientist would say that the difference in brain scans simply indicates a difference. What does that difference mean? That's what I'd like to know. I'm hoping we can start to understand what we think we are doing from what is actually happening.

Does the meaning we assign to speaking in tongues complicate matters? I think so.

[mtatum4496]

I think it is important to remember that all the spiritual gifts are given for a purpose; sometimes they are given to us for the edification of our own spirits. At other times, spiritual gifts are given so that others may be ministered to and comforted.

I personally have never been given the gift of tongues, although on more than one occasion I have been present when it was given, and I felt the spirit of God bear witness to me that the gift was real and from God. I've also been present when tongues was practiced and through the gift of discernment, I was given to know that God was not the origin of the gift of tongues in those instances.

There have been times when the Holy Spirit has directed me to go somewhere and I had no reason why - yet when I arrived, I found indeed there was a reason. I recall an elder of my aquaintance who was traveling for his work and while on the road felt a strong urging to take an exit off the highway he had never taken. He obeyed and ended up stopping at a house he did not know. He felt prompted to tell the woman and man who answered the door who is was and that he was an elder in our church. The man and woman cried out, because they had a child who was ill, but there was no congregation of the church near enough for them to ask the elders to offer the sacrament of administration to their child. As it happened, he had his oil with him and was able to administer to the child.

So many times we crave to possess one gift when in fact we have been given those that God knows we need in order to grow and to also be a means of ministry to others.

[kara speltz]

I think it is important to remember that all the spiritual gifts are given for a purpose; sometimes they are given to us for the edification of our own spirits. At other times, spiritual gifts are given so that others may be ministered to and comforted.


There have been times when the Holy Spirit has directed me to go somewhere and I had no reason why - yet when I arrived, I found indeed there was a reason. I recall an elder of my aquaintance who was traveling for his work and while on the road felt a strong urging to take an exit off the highway he had never taken. He obeyed and ended up stopping at a house he did not know. He felt prompted to tell the woman and man who answered the door who is was and that he was an elder in our church. The man and woman cried out, because they had a child who was ill, but there was no congregation of the church near enough for them to ask the elders to offer the sacrament of administration to their child. As it happened, he had his oil with him and was able to administer to the child.

So many times we crave to possess one gift when in fact we have been given those that God knows we need in order to grow and to also be a means of ministry to others.

Oh yes, that's happened to me so many times, it get's really eerie, on one level. I seem to have a strong connectionn to the Holy Spirit and there are times when I know that I'm being called. My two trips to Iraq were certainly calls, I had no desire, really to go, and to this day don't quite understand why I was called there, just an absolute certainty that it was the Spirit directing me. I don't often talk with this to others, because they get a bit freaked out, so it's reassuring to have this discussion in the forum.

Kara

[Daniel]

I recognize that we all need a 'frame' in which to talk about these things, and 'Holy Spirit' is as good as any other, but, speaking personally, the label one uses isn't as interesting to me as the activity itself.

There have been some striking experiences in my life, instances (mostly during or following a period of deep meditation) where I have felt 'led', connected to everything (and that the world was a good place) and where I felt as though I was touching a thread that ran throughout my life. Whom is doing the leading? I can't say that I actually 'know' (part of me wonders why we always think of this in terms of a 'who', which tends to externalize the experience somewhat), but I do know that enough of this sort of thing has left me with the observation that I have a choice to go with that inner 'voice', or not. It seems to me that if I ignore it, it stops talking in to me, which may amount to the same thing!

[tdogg]

Daniel, I find the brain activity comparisons to be very interesting. I never have given it much thought that it could be that different. Wow, it certainly looks different!

I totally understand the concept of 'being led' - sometime it is very heavy on my heart to say or do something for others and other times, it isn't. I try to listen to my heart and act when I feel led and not necessarily act when I don't. I've always imagined it was the Holy Spirit putting it on me. Having been raised AG from a young age, I'm very familiar with others speaking in tongues, but as hard as I tried, it hasn't been a gift I've been blessed with. Although I too have felt God's presence at times when someone else was speaking, and haven't felt His presence at others. Last May while in Scotland with my aunt (who hasn't spoken to me in months - she is very condeming of my sexuality and relationship), who speaks in tongues although I don't necessarly feel the Lord's presence - anyway, she spoke to a group of Charismatic Catholics. They had a tongue speaking session where it appeared I was the only one not participating, and then the deal where she touched them and they fell. I was a little taken back at how disorganized it all felt, and did not feel the presence of God, but did feel like I wanted to leave. It was very strange for me, although I'm not in a position to say it wasn't God's work. My aunt told me once, she could pray with me and I could speak in tongues, I just have to start babbling baby talk and then it would come. Thought that was strange also. I don't believe we are all entitled to all gifts of the Spirit.

[Daniel]

tdogg- the story you've related closely parallels one that I remember meself.

I was about 16 or so and a South American pentacostal revivalist came to the church I was attending. They proceeded to have an 'upper room' service (it actually was in a hall that was on the second floor- but this is bedside the point!) and the revivalist went around the room praying for everyone. They all ended up on the floor, everyone but me. There I was standing in the middle of the room wondering why I didn't 'go down'. There must have been a hundred people laying on the floor. (Yes- I could speak in tongues with the best of them at this point.) It left me feeling strange- and yes- I thought as you did that somehow, the whole thing was 'off' in some way. It all seems forced somehow.

Or course, the charismatic would say that I was holding out on God. My view, however, is that I was using my head in different way. A conscious, different way. it may be hubris on my part, but I think the brain scans may indicate this. It is any wonder that I was (a good deal later) interested in meditation, an activity which uses additional parts (I'm being polite here- I could atually say more :rolleyes: ) brain itself?

It's very interesting what your Aunt said about learning to get the 'gift'. My own rumination on the matter leads me to think about the process we all go through to learn to speak. There is the phase called 'echolalia'.

ech·o·la·li·a
n.
1) Psychiatry. The immediate and involuntary repetition of words or phrases just spoken by others, often a symptom of autism or some types of schizophrenia.
2) An infant's repetition of the sounds made by others, a normal occurrence in childhood development.

While speaking in tongue is called "glossolalia'.


Glossolalia (from the Greek, (glossa), tongue and (lalô), to speak) comprises the utterance of semantically meaningless syllables. Glossolalia is claimed by some to be an unknown mystical language; others claim that glossolalia is the speaking of an unlearned foreign language (see xenoglossia). Glossolalic utterances sometimes occur as part of religious worship (religious glossolalia).

While occurrences of Glossolalia are widespread and well documented, there is considerable debate within religious communities (principally Christian) and elsewhere as to both its status - the extent to which glossolalic utterances can be considered to form language - and its source - whether glossolalia is a natural or supernatural Spiritual phenomenon.

Here's what my brain is chewing on.

Is glossalia in any way related to echolalia? At least in function? Is it an adult form of echolalia? Is speaking in tongues the scrambling of sounds already known, while echolalia is the sound of words being learned?

Is this why when I speak in tongues it sounds like rhyming French?

I wonder what they would find if they hooked me up. The same thing as in the scans posted here?

[mtatum4496]

... Although I too have felt God's presence at times when someone else was speaking, and haven't felt His presence at others. Last May while in Scotland with my aunt (who hasn't spoken to me in months - she is very condeming of my sexuality and relationship), who speaks in tongues although I don't necessarly feel the Lord's presence - anyway, she spoke to a group of Charismatic Catholics. They had a tongue speaking session where it appeared I was the only one not participating, and then the deal where she touched them and they fell. I was a little taken back at how disorganized it all felt, and did not feel the presence of God, but did feel like I wanted to leave... .

tdogg, what you describe here is pretty much identical to an experience I had at age 17. A friend of mine who belonged to a Congregational Holiness Church congregation (and this congregation actively taught one had not received the Holy Spirit and been extended salvation until one spoke in tongues) asked me to go to a worship service with him. I felt somewhat uncomfortable from the moment I entered the building, but at first just put it down to the fact I had never been there before. After the service got into full swing, though, my vision began to darken and I sensed a presence that had nothing to do with God. When one woman began to speak in an unknown tongue and others began to chime in, the darkness seemed to grow thicker. I had not choice but to excuse myself and leave as I began to have trouble breathing. Once my foot stepped off the property, my vision cleared and I could breathe normally.

That is the single most severe instance of being in a church and sensing the presence of evil.

Now, I have seen the gift of tongues given in worship services in other churches (I recall a very powerful instance when I went to an Assembly of God service with a friend once where the presence of God was so strong that I don't see how anyone could not have felt it). So I do know it is a valid spiritual gift. But I do think it is only given when there is a reason for it to be given, and it should not be esteemed to the exclusion of the other gifts.

[Diane Vera]

Kara- I started speaking in tongues at the age of 15 when my older sister (who had been converted and witnessed to me) placed her hands on my head and said a prayer. I remember very clearly having the belief that 1) something wonderful was going to happen 2) I could actually 'do this' and 3) the Holy Spirit was a real force of some sort and was going to give me something. I've experienced a change in many of the concepts/ideas that I held since that time (strictly speaking, Buddhists aren't concerned with 'God'). I can, however, still speak in tongues.

What, if anything, does it mean to you when you do it now? What could it possibly signify in a Buddhist context?

The cultural and religious context in which speaking in tongues happens is fascinating. We bring so many layered meanings to it. And it's not that I'm trying to knock it here, though I admit that the last line of my first post was provocative. I played with the assumption that 'more' is 'better', which, strictly speaking, isn't necessarily so. I think a scientist would say that the difference in brain scans simply indicates a difference. What does that difference mean? That's what I'd like to know. I'm hoping we can start to understand what we think we are doing from what is actually happening.

Could you please clarify that last sentence? It appears that some words may be missing.

[Daniel]

What, if anything, does it mean to you when you do it now? What could it possibly signify in a Buddhist context?

To be frank, it doesn't mean anything to me per se. That is, I do not ascribe supernatural importance to it. Nor am I of the opinion that the Holy Spirit is speaking through me.

This is a result of my study and practice in Buddhism which has influenced me heavily. I do not know, however, how a Buddhist monk might think about the matter, not having disussed the matter with one. :rolleyes:

Here's an interesting site on the phenomina. The info is taken from another site that is not currently active.

http://www.meta-religion.com/Linguistics/Glossolalia/glossolalia_today.htm

Glossolalia today

From: http://www.bible411.com/glossolalia/glossolalia_4.htm

If the gift of tongues was not ecstatic utterances and if the gift of tongues ceased shortly after the death of the Apostles, then how do we account for the phenomenon of tongues in the form of ecstatic utterances today? It is interesting to note that glossolalia is not a phenomenon confined to Christianity. Pagan religions throughout the world are frenzied with tongues. This is reflected in an article in the Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation entitled "An Ethnological Study of Glossolalia" by George J. Jennings, March 1968. Jennings observes that glossolalia is practiced amoung the following non-Christian religions of the world; the Peyote cult among the North American Indians, the Haida Indians of the Pacific Northwest, Shamans in the Sudan, the Shango cult of the West Coast of Africa, the Shago cult in Trinidad, the Voodoo cult in Haiti, the Aborigines of South American and Australia, the aboriginal peoples of the subarctic regions of North America and Asia, the Shamans in Greenland, the Dyaks of Borneo, the Zor cult of Ethiopia, the Siberian shamans, the Chaco Indians of South America, the Curanderos of the Andes, the Kinka in the African Sudan, the Thonga shamans of Africa, and the Tibetan monks. Certainly we wouldn't attribute Glossolalia in these heathen religions to the work of the holy Spirit.

Behavioral Scientists have conducted extensive research on glossolalia and for the most part concur that supernatural forces are not necessary to explain its existence. This is shown in an article entitled "Behavioral Science Research on the Nature of Glossolalia" which appears in the September, 1968, issue of the Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation.


I'm hoping we can start to understand what we think we are doing from what is actually happening.

Could you please clarify that last sentence? It appears that some words may be missing.

No words missing there. Just my usual knotty writing style in evidence. :lol: What I meant to say was that since the meaning we assign to speaking in tongues is dependent on one's environment and culture, we should all take a harder look at ourselves and our thought processes regarding it.

How do we know what we think we know? That's what interests my curious mind.

[dsdrane]

Guys, please excuse my ignorance, but this is fascinating and I have a couple of questions:

Is each person's speaking-in-tongues language different/unique, or can one understand someone else?

Or is it that the sounds are meant to transcend syntax and grammar the way we normally understand them?

Daniel, when you use this gift of yours, are you aware of what you are saying...can you understand others?

Has anyone attempted writing this down?

[Daniel]

Guys, please excuse my ignorance, but this is fascinating and I have a couple of questions:

Is each person's speaking-in-tongues language different/unique, or can one understand someone else?

Or is it that the sounds are meant to transcend syntax and grammar the way we normally understand them?

Daniel, when you use this gift of yours, are you aware of what you are saying...can you understand others?

Has anyone attempted writing this down?

David- these are some of the questions I have asked myself. I have not read of any instance where a living person has claimed to know what was being 'said' by another person, that is, a known human language. The link I quoted earlier has this to say based on research. The emphasis in bold is mine.

http://www.meta-religion.com/Linguistics/Glossolalia/glossolalia_today.htm

VIII. Summary

Glossolalia is an unusual pattern of aberrant speech. A review of the current research data provides a new source of information for examining the phenomena of glossolalia. If is a modification of the conscious connection between inner speech and outer speech. The meaning and function of glossolalia is closely tied to its social and cultural context. The historic theological debates concerning glossolalia centered on whether it was of divine or devilish origin. Such debate is irrelevant. Glossolalia, as such, is not a spiritual phenomea, but is may be a result of deep and meaningful spiritual exercise.

Whether we agree with these conclusions or not, the research referred to in the article reveals that glossolalia today is actually abbreviations of known languages. Note the following quotations:

5A. Structural Linguistics of Glossolalia

A number of studies on American English-speaking glossolalists have recently been done. These reports vary somewhat in the specific technical conclusions, but in general there is consistency in the conclusions. The differences seem to be due to the fact that glossolalic speech has different degrees of organization. Some glossolalia is very poorly organized and consists of little more than grunts and barely-formed sounds, while other glossolalia is highly organized into a systematic series of vowels and consonants. Several language studies, including our own, suggest that glossolalists develop their speech from ill-formed structure to "practiced" and "polished" glossolalic speech. Thus the quality of glossolalia depends to some extent on the stage of development of glossolalia.

The following seem to be reasonable conclusions from these studies. Glossolalia, in English-speaking subjects, is composed of the basic speech elements of English. The major difference consists of a lack of organization of the basic vowels and consonants into the elements necessary for intelligible speech. The elements of speech such as pauses, breaths, intonations, etc., are greatly reduced or changed. Thus glossolalic speech tends to resemble the early speech qualities of young children before they organize all the various parts of the adult language. Further, there is a reduced number of vowels and consonants used. The conclusions of the linguists is that glossolalia has the characteristics of partially formed language, while lacking certain requirements of true language.

Indeed, many of the qualities of glossolalic speech are those found in the speech of young children. A comparison of Devereaux's outline of children's speech and glossolalic speech is striking. On this basis, one may suggest that glossolalic speech appears to be a return to an early way of speaking, in which speaking and sound are used for purposes other than just the communication of thought. This idea gets further support from other data to be cited.

Another line of investigation has focused on the duplication of glossolalia under experimental rather than religious conditions. Al Carlson, at the University of California, recorded two types of glossolalia. One type was recorded by volunteers who were asked to spontaneously speak in unknown language without having ever heard glossolalia. These speech samples were then rated and the two types of glossolalia could not be distinguished from each other. In fact, the "contrived" received better ratings as "good glossolalia" than did the actual glossolalia.

Werner Cohn, at the University of British Columbia, took naïve students to Pentecostal churches to hear glossolalia and then asked the students to speak in glossolalia in the laboratory. They were able to successfully do so. Their recordings were then played to glossolalists who described the glossolalia as beautiful examples.

In sum, the data suggest: that glossolalia has a specific language structure based on the language tongue of the speaker; that the linguistic organization is limited; and that the capacity to speak in this type of semi-organized language can be duplicated under experimental conditions. Thus, glossolalia does not appear to be a "strange language," but rather the aborted or incomplete formation of familiar language.

This research clearly undercuts the claims of glossolalists that they speak a "heavenly language." In reality they are speaking abbreviations of their national language.

I find the whole matter fascinating. And I can only look to my own speaking in tongues to notice, as I mentioned in an earlier email on this thread, that my 'version' sounds like French, that is, the phoneme's used in the the French language. It's rhymes a great deal for one thing. Rather curious that. I sing in French, but my 'tongues' French is a lot easier to pull off. My sense is that, my brain utilizes many of elements of French, but not all!

Did it always sound like it does now? No. It didn't. It was a much more crude affair when I did it in my teens. This makes me suspicious, and leads me to conclude that the activity is, in essence, originates in the part of my brain that processes these sounds, but not in a 'intelligent' way. The article from the NYtimes on this thread, as well as the link here, seems to suggest this.

No. I can't understand a word- or sound- it might be better said- that comes out of my mouth. Nor have I ever understood another person who spoke in tongues when I was in the AG church. But it is an electrifying experience when it happens in a service. Everything about the environment makes for great theatre. I don't mean btw, to imply a negative connotation here, since the threatical aspect of speaking in tongues in a public space for the benefit of all is, from my point of view, one of the primary reasons we attend church and other 'performances'. We hope to be moved and lifted up. Touched in some way by our participation. To feel renewed and refreshed. Great 'theatre' does that.

There may ideed by something theraputic about the activity. But this may have more to do with beliefs about the activity rather than the activity itself. If so, that is a curious thing, is it not?

If, as the quoted article suggests, that speaking in tongues is "a result of deep and meaningful spiritual exercise", then it seems to me that the the purpose and function of this excercise, as distinct from its assigned purpose and function, remains to be discovered.

[tdogg]

Wow, Daniel a lot of food for thought in your posts!

I have attended churches where on occasion one would speak in tongues and another would subsequently speak in English, apparently interpreting the tongues message. I've heard from hard-core pentecostals that true in-tongue messages from the holy spirit will be accompanied by an immediate translation, otherwise they are false. I've also heard that it may or may not be accompanied by translation. None of this have I been able to get out of any Biblical reading on my own. It just depends on the denomination and the particular sect of the denomination, and then on who is in charge (pastor/preacher, etc.).

The comparisons and possibilities of echolalia and glossolalia are pretty interesting. It would have been scientifically awesome if I could have hooked up everyone at the Charismatic catholic session including my aunt, to ekgs, emgs, and brain scans - wow, now there would be some fodder for discussion! All I know is, that session just somehow didn't seem right to me. Not in that I thought it was necessarily evil, more like they were just trying to hard to be spiritual. All over the place. But I've also experienced very controlled, very deliberate tongue-speaking in a pentecostal environment. I can't remember any instances of anyone recording these; however, at the CC session, my aunt did insist that I take pictures, which I felt were extremely intrusive and inappropriate, so after a couple shots, I put the camera down.

All that said, I've pretty much given up attempting to do any tongue-speaking of my own. I dont' believe it's a gift I'm meant to have.

[matthewspeed]

By no means do I believe that tongues is something psycological. It is a supernatural gift. First, the bible talks about speaking in other tongues. (I will not go into all the sriptures at point, perhaps this is something that many of you out there can research) Secondly, you also have to take someones experience and compare it to what the scriptures tell us. When you read something in scripture, and it correlates with someone on a personal level, then thats when the word of God really comes alive and proves itself! I experienced the gift of tongues when I was about 21. I was shown the scriptures about speaking in tongues. I was extremely excited, being a new Christian. I wanted all that God had for me. I had no idea of what to expect. I had only seen others speaking in tongues, never thought much about it. I was curious.

Then these 2 ladies from church took me in some empty classroom within the church. They sat me down and explained the scriptures relating to tongues. They showed me the scriptures. Then they laid their hands on me and told me to just praise God and ask for the gift. I started to just praise God with my words of praise and thanksgiving like I had done many times before, just wanting to know more of God and receive more of Him. Then as I was praising God with all my might, all of a sudden, I felt this burning heat from my head to my toes. I started to sweat. It was like tornado of heat swirling through my body. I can't explain it. Then I uncontrollably started to laugh. I laughed so hard, my stomach muscles started to ache. Then I started to sob uncontrollably, then laugh again, then........ all of a sudden my English words became another language!! I just kept spewing these words, louder and louder. They came so naturally. I knew in my mind and my soul, that it was another language. I was not trying to babble or make something up, it just came out!! I was rolling my tongue with words that sounded hebrew, or arabic. I was in that room for about an hour, all the time, laughing, crying, sweating, shouting out words I have never spoken before!

I know in my mind and my spirit, that was a gift from God. I received the gift of tongues. I can speak in tongues to this day at the drop of a hat. I don't practice speaking in tongues today, due to the fact that I am too ignorant of what it all means. For years I spoke freely in tongues in prayer groups. Now, I do not. I am scared. I know it is from God and I have a fear of abusing something that God has trusted me with. There is no manual to tell me when and where to speak this language. The bible tells us that it is to be interpreted by someone with the gift of interpretation, and I know no one at this place and time who can properly interpret my tongues. So, I do not practice it.

Well, thats my story. I know it is from God. It doesn't mean I understand it, but His ways are not my ways!! -Matthew

[u-dog]

I really appreciate hearing your experience. I have never heard anyone describe the experience so graphically before. It sounds truly wonderful. speaking in tongues has never been a part of my tradition. I grew up being taught that the gift of tongues was REALLY the gift of Pentecost (the ability to speak in your language and to be understood by others in theirs). I have a broader understanding now and believe that it IS in fact a spiritual gift as you describe it. I prayed for a while that I would be given the gift of tongues but that prayer was not answered in the affirmative. I'm fine with that. God has gifted me in many other ways.

[dsdrane]

This is really fascinating stuff.

And...I do NOT mean this to sound negative...just a little scary.

OK, maybe a lot scary.

[Something new & different...therefore I must fear it. :rolleyes:]

Seriously, though, is it a pleasant feeling? Can you stop if you wanted to? Does your demeanor or facial expression change (as it sounds like it must with you, Matthew)?

Curious & confused,

David

[Britt.]

I'm glad this thread was posted, although I'm not really sure why I didn't notice it before.

I've always had somewhat of a bias against this, & am still somewhat skeptical sometimes. Back when I went to GUTS church, in my teens, they would try to force this as sort of a requirement.

I don't go to that church now for reasons obvious to anyone who might know anything about it, but my partner does this, probably a couple times a day. Short prayers, not shouting, but still tounges I guess. I've never felt any need to throw all my linguistic skills to the wind to pray, but I really doubt he's someone who would fake it, much less when there is no one around. Doesn't push it on me.

That being said, after seeing the scans & some things that have been said here, I wonder about something. Every once in a while he says something that I know is exactly the same phrase. Not any language I know, but I pick up little linguistic things, & recognize that phrase enough to say it myself, although I don't know what it means. So I wonder if you make a habit of this, does your brain start to learn the language automatically? I've heard other people who probably aren't insincere do it. A lot of it sounds similar. Whatever it is, I'm inclined to think there is somewhat of a pattern, like any language. Maybe it's not gibberish after all.

[Diane Vera]

Back when I went to GUTS church, in my teens, they would try to force this as sort of a requirement.

What is GUTS Church? I Googled and found the website of something called Guts Church (http://www.gutschurch.com/) in Tulsa, Oklahoma -- is this the same church you are talking about? I didn't inspect the entire website, but, offhand, it does not appear to say much about this church's beliefs.

I don't go to that church now for reasons obvious to anyone who might know anything about it

You got my curiosity up. What is this church like?

[Diane Vera]

Question to GLBT-friendly Pentecostals and others here with similar beliefs in the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and other direct inspiration from God:

Do you believe that the dramatic growth of the Pentecostal and charismatic movements over the past century is a work of God? If so, how do you account for the fact that the Pentecostal and similar churches tend to be among the most homophobic churches?

[Britt.]

Never seen their web site before, but that's it. It was started by a few "born again" bikers, & grew to what it is now. They're very literalist, preach a lot of hellfire crap, etc. Speaking in toungues was almost a requirement, like you were not Christian enough if you didn't do it. Everyone is supposed to feel guilty basically all the time. I don't see why anyone would believe that way. They also do the Halloween thing where they have various scenes of people in Hell, & try to convert those who come to see the event.

[MickA]

The following video is very helpful in understanding the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge and why they ceased.

Speaking In Tongues Part A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6fIUpvZUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6fIUpvZUI

God bless,
Mick

[Daniel]

The following video is very helpful in understanding the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge and why they ceased.

God bless,
Mick

Welcome to the Forum Mick.

So I watched the vid and got that the speaker was using various scriptures to create a narrative concerting Tongues. Ok. So what does this have to do with this thread? Do you have a point to your post? And if so, what is it?

[Rick336]

"Speaking in tongues" (from my point of view) may be the result of an undisciplined mind.

"There is nothing so disobedient as an undisciplined mind." - Buddha



Rick

[RedneckDyke]

Anytime anyone talks about speaking in tongues I can't help but think of the Movie "Saved" where Cassandra "speaks in tongues" at the assembly. Or the movie "The Apostle" where the radio station guy tells Robert Duvall that he can preach on the radio as long as he speaks the King's English and not in tougues.
I don't have any problem with it except if people just make it up and say God told them something just to have power over people or make themselves look good. Or some churches pressure people to do it or they aren't really saved. I think if someone did it in my church they may get a look or two but it wouldn't be a big deal. We have lots of different kind of people in our church.

[BrianB]

I grew up in a Foursquare Gospel church. You were made to feel like an imcomplete christian if you didn't speak in tongues at that church. There were special services that lasted into the morning hours to help someone receive the gift of speaking in tongues. You just had to "tarry until the Spirit moved". Then you had to "pray through." My mom received the gift while still in the baptist church. Our family was invited to find a more suitable church. A few months later I received the gift on my birthday.

When I received the gift of speaking in tongues I just spoke a few words of babble. Then my tongue took off almost by itself. I was forming the words but they flowed very quickly. I still do pray in tongues sometimes. I believe it helps you pray when you aren't sure what to pray. I've also found that praying in tongues is calming. FWIW

[Rick336]

I grew up in a Foursquare Gospel church. You were made to feel like an imcomplete christian if you didn't speak in tongues at that church.

"And they'll know we are Christians by our love."


:lol:

Rick

[donovan]

Pentecostal is a false church

The catholic church is the mother of all harlots, all her daughter churches will be destroyed as well as her when Jesus Christ comes again.

Denominations are not what Christ wants. The bible is against these churches, they do not follow the teachings of Christ but the teachings of man.

The speaking of tongues

It is much better to speak in a language that everyone understands
Also the fact of the matter is that speaking in tongues are for non believers to make believers out of them,, so it should not be used in church in the prescence of believers.

The true church is you and me and the people who are saved in Jesus Christ name, the born again Christians. All other churches will be destroyed.

They are from satan,, The churches can be traced back to catholism and they are her daughters.

I DO NOT SUPPORT NO CHURCH ESPECIALLY ONES AGAINST GAY PEOPLE

[kara speltz]

Pentecostal is a false church

The catholic church is the mother of all harlots, all her daughter churches will be destroyed as well as her when Jesus Christ comes again.

Denominations are not what Christ wants. The bible is against these churches, they do not follow the teachings of Christ but the teachings of man.

The speaking of tongues

It is much better to speak in a language that everyone understands
Also the fact of the matter is that speaking in tongues are for non believers to make believers out of them,, so it should not be used in church in the prescence of believers.

The true church is you and me and the people who are saved in Jesus Christ name, the born again Christians. All other churches will be destroyed.

They are from satan,, The churches can be traced back to catholism and they are her daughters.

I DO NOT SUPPORT NO CHURCH ESPECIALLY ONES AGAINST GAY PEOPLE

Dear Donavan: Let me guess! I'll bet you come out of fundamentalism, and what you can't even see is that you're still acting like a fundie by making the kind of statements you've made here.

Nonviolence is about loving our advesaries, not calling them names. Many of us here have found a welcoming place within Christian (and even Catholic) churches. Gandhi says we must become the change we seek, not imitate those we are trying to change.

While I don't automatically trust everyone who speaks in tongues, I'm enough of a charismatic to know that there are a number of people who speak in tongues who are Spirit filled.

Let's not just turn the world upside down, let's create a more loving and accepting place.

Kara

[Daniel]

Pentecostal is a false church

The catholic church is the mother of all harlots, all her daughter churches will be destroyed as well as her when Jesus Christ comes again.

Denominations are not what Christ wants. The bible is against these churches, they do not follow the teachings of Christ but the teachings of man.

The speaking of tongues

It is much better to speak in a language that everyone understands
Also the fact of the matter is that speaking in tongues are for non believers to make believers out of them,, so it should not be used in church in the prescence of believers.

The true church is you and me and the people who are saved in Jesus Christ name, the born again Christians. All other churches will be destroyed.

They are from satan,, The churches can be traced back to catholism and they are her daughters.

I DO NOT SUPPORT NO CHURCH ESPECIALLY ONES AGAINST GAY PEOPLE

Had you even read this thread before you started shooting from the hip?

[BrianB]

"And they'll know we are Christians by our love."


:lol:

Rick

I love you too, Rick.

[Rick336]

I love you too, Rick.


I was being facetious. I'm not a Christian.


But thanks. :-)



Rick