ladyinred
11-09-2006, 02:10 AM
you all would be so proud of some of the atheists on the copper forums standing up for gay rights.Also note that many of these postings are responses to the religious rights attack.(Watch the dialogue)(Also note many of these people are straight)
Look at what shersher wrote:The people here who support same sex marriage have stated the reasons for their support. Why would you choose to believe that their reasons are something other than what they have said? Do you think they’re all a bunch of liars? Or is it that you just can’t comprehend that not everyone thinks and believes as you do?
It’s unbelievably ignorant of you to say that parents who are accepting of their gay children don’t REALLY love them. If you REALLY love your children, you accept them for who they are - even if they are not exact little replicas of you.
-----------------
Sherry
Henirietta wrote:Civil rights demand equality for all.
To withhold rights from one group that are allowed to all other citizens is the worst form of discrimination.
The more we have discovered about brain chemistry, hormonal influences on behavior and genetics in general, the more we know that people have no choice over what kind of body they inhabit during life. We are born into a physical system that is composed of many elements.
No one was given the choice of whether or not to be born into a female or male body. We do not choose our birth parents, nor our ethnic identity. The composition of a human being is determined by factors that are beyond anyone’s control of choice. Each of must do the best with the physical structure that we inhabit.
Heterosexual people are born to be heterosexual, Homosexual people are born to be homosexual. Bisexual people are born to be bisexual. Transexual people are born to be transexual. The attempt to legislate conditions that are inborn is doomed to failure. Fear and persecution can control and inhibit behavior to a certain degree. But to expect people to change sexual orientation is just as realistic as expecting someone to change their racial identity, or for someone who was born without arms to choose to grow new arms and become the same as everyone else.
Shersher:Exactly what are we supposed to be protecting children from by limiting marriage to heterosexual couples?
12 Reasons (why homosexual marriage is "bad" and why gay people should not be allowed to get married)
Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.
Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.
Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.
Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears’s 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn’t changed at all: women are property, Blacks can’t marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.
Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.
Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country. That’s why we only have one religion in America.
Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.
Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license.
Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven’t adapted to cars or longer lifespans.
Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians.
"Promoting hatred and bigotry in the name of God is what destroys society, not the marriage of two loving people of the same gender." Raymond Miller
Freethinker,
First, let us make it clear - it is not "gay rights". It is "equal rights for gays". There is a huge difference!
Committed homosexual couples get nothing! Heterosexual (straight) couples who marry get from the federal government: Access to Social Security after spouse’s death, access to health insurance through spouse’s workplace, the right of custody of children after divorce, visitation rights for non-biological children, joint parenting rights, such as access to children’s school records, bereavement leave after death of a spouse, burial determination after the death of a spouse, domestic violence intervention, sick leave to care for spouse or non-biological child, legal validation of a long-term relationship, ability to live in neighborhoods deemed "families only", access to life insurance in spouse’s workplace, access to survivor’s benefits in case of emergency, access to spouse’s crime victims’ recovery benefits, ability to file wrongful death claims, right to shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce, ability to file joint home and auto insurance policies, joint rental leases with automatic renewal rights if spouse dies or leaves, access to adopting children, automatic inheritance of shared assets after spouses death, automatic inheritance of retirement savings tax-free after spouses death, automatic exemption of property tax increases on shared assets gained after spouse’s death, ability to file joint tax returns, access to tax breaks for married couples, veterans discounts based on spouse’s armed forces status, assumption of spouse’s pension after death, ability to file joint bankruptcy, ability to collect unemployment compensation benefits after leaving a job to relocate because of spouse’s job move, ability to transfer property from one spouse to another without transfer tax consequences, access to fostering children, automatic next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions and hospital visitation status,, immigration and residency priority for spouses from other countries, ability to invoke spousal privilege in a court of law, access to reduced rate memberships at health clubs, social clubs, organizations, prison visitation rights.
All of these rights are reserved solely for unions of one man and one woman. Again, same gender couples get nothing! This is the firm position of corporations and businesses everywhere who do not wish to provide equal benefits to gay couples as they give to straight couples. GET IT?
Flatlandogs:It’s a shame that many don’t have respect for others’ differences. Remember when the targets were black?
Flatlandogs:Well first John, I’m not black, nor am I gay. I’ve been married, I have three grown daughters nine grandchildren and one great-granddaughter. At the moment I’m just seeing what it’s like to be alone for the first time in my entire life. It’s interesting. My remote is my own, but when I lose it I can’t blame anyone else except maybe the cats, but it’s too heavy for them to pick it up with their paws.
My comments were aimed at those who gloat at the judgement. They seem to think that heterosexuals are superior and that only they should have the right to marriage.
The irony is that most marriages end up in divorce so how sacred can it be for the marriages that are one man and one woman?
Marriages are legal partnerships, if you doubt me try going through a divorce sometime.
Shersher: radio, are you serious? I can’t believe you actually attempted to rebut the 12 Reasons! The list is sarcastic. I don’t see how anyone could take the list seriously! It shows how ludicrous the arguments against gay marriage really are, by explicitly stating the arguments... and letting the obvious conclusions from these arguments follow, which are clearly not accurate.
Quote: Originally posted by radioengineer on 06 July 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not rights, or superiority, but Morals (or the lack of them.)
In your biased opinion.
Any one has the right to object to unacceptable behavior, when it effects, what we are bombarded with, day and night.
Yes, even people who object to your unacceptable behavior.
The same as the trash shown on TV. I know we can turn it off, but why should we have to consider that.
Why not?
Trashing Morality is just a slippery slope under the guise of liberty. I should have the right to walk down the street, without being barraged by immorality.
Unless you live in the heart of The Castro, I seriously doubt that you are being barraged by overtly gay people demonstrating their affection for each other as you walk down the street.
And shouldn’t they also have the right to walk down the street without being barraged by prejudiced, intolerant people?
But we are getting closer to the Abyss.
What is wrong is now right and what was right is now wrong.
Words like enlightened, or politically correct are pretenses to pervert morality.
It’s irritating when bigotry disguises itself as morality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henrietta:Hooray for all your posts Sherry.
That was an excellent example of sarcasm.
Obviously Radio does not understand sarcasm.
For those of us who enjoy that style, you are a winner.
Have you noticed that bigots, in general, always consider themselves to be morally superior to everyone else?
Where does Radio live anyway? I know people who would love to find that street which is being barraged by immorality. That could even be a great tourist attraction.
To all those who do have issues with this concept, please remember:
It takes all kinds of people to make a society, and
Live and Let Live is very good advice if you wish to co-exist with the rest of the people on this planet.
Let the good times roll!
Carpe diem from Henrietta
Shersher:Quote: We were put here to be fruitful. How fruitful is a homo union? It is not, because they do not produce anything. At best, they can only build on what someone else has produced.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
What makes you say we were put here to be fruitful? Does this mean you believe that infertile couples and people who never marry are useless and should not be here? What about people who are childless by choice? Or children who die before puberty? Or people who are mentally or physically disabled and can’t or don’t have children? Why are they here?
Quote: so yes I know there is a legal aspect to marriage, but it is a very minor aspect when a couple truly care for each other.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Look at what shersher wrote:The people here who support same sex marriage have stated the reasons for their support. Why would you choose to believe that their reasons are something other than what they have said? Do you think they’re all a bunch of liars? Or is it that you just can’t comprehend that not everyone thinks and believes as you do?
It’s unbelievably ignorant of you to say that parents who are accepting of their gay children don’t REALLY love them. If you REALLY love your children, you accept them for who they are - even if they are not exact little replicas of you.
-----------------
Sherry
Henirietta wrote:Civil rights demand equality for all.
To withhold rights from one group that are allowed to all other citizens is the worst form of discrimination.
The more we have discovered about brain chemistry, hormonal influences on behavior and genetics in general, the more we know that people have no choice over what kind of body they inhabit during life. We are born into a physical system that is composed of many elements.
No one was given the choice of whether or not to be born into a female or male body. We do not choose our birth parents, nor our ethnic identity. The composition of a human being is determined by factors that are beyond anyone’s control of choice. Each of must do the best with the physical structure that we inhabit.
Heterosexual people are born to be heterosexual, Homosexual people are born to be homosexual. Bisexual people are born to be bisexual. Transexual people are born to be transexual. The attempt to legislate conditions that are inborn is doomed to failure. Fear and persecution can control and inhibit behavior to a certain degree. But to expect people to change sexual orientation is just as realistic as expecting someone to change their racial identity, or for someone who was born without arms to choose to grow new arms and become the same as everyone else.
Shersher:Exactly what are we supposed to be protecting children from by limiting marriage to heterosexual couples?
12 Reasons (why homosexual marriage is "bad" and why gay people should not be allowed to get married)
Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.
Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.
Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.
Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears’s 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn’t changed at all: women are property, Blacks can’t marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.
Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.
Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country. That’s why we only have one religion in America.
Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.
Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license.
Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven’t adapted to cars or longer lifespans.
Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians.
"Promoting hatred and bigotry in the name of God is what destroys society, not the marriage of two loving people of the same gender." Raymond Miller
Freethinker,
First, let us make it clear - it is not "gay rights". It is "equal rights for gays". There is a huge difference!
Committed homosexual couples get nothing! Heterosexual (straight) couples who marry get from the federal government: Access to Social Security after spouse’s death, access to health insurance through spouse’s workplace, the right of custody of children after divorce, visitation rights for non-biological children, joint parenting rights, such as access to children’s school records, bereavement leave after death of a spouse, burial determination after the death of a spouse, domestic violence intervention, sick leave to care for spouse or non-biological child, legal validation of a long-term relationship, ability to live in neighborhoods deemed "families only", access to life insurance in spouse’s workplace, access to survivor’s benefits in case of emergency, access to spouse’s crime victims’ recovery benefits, ability to file wrongful death claims, right to shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce, ability to file joint home and auto insurance policies, joint rental leases with automatic renewal rights if spouse dies or leaves, access to adopting children, automatic inheritance of shared assets after spouses death, automatic inheritance of retirement savings tax-free after spouses death, automatic exemption of property tax increases on shared assets gained after spouse’s death, ability to file joint tax returns, access to tax breaks for married couples, veterans discounts based on spouse’s armed forces status, assumption of spouse’s pension after death, ability to file joint bankruptcy, ability to collect unemployment compensation benefits after leaving a job to relocate because of spouse’s job move, ability to transfer property from one spouse to another without transfer tax consequences, access to fostering children, automatic next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions and hospital visitation status,, immigration and residency priority for spouses from other countries, ability to invoke spousal privilege in a court of law, access to reduced rate memberships at health clubs, social clubs, organizations, prison visitation rights.
All of these rights are reserved solely for unions of one man and one woman. Again, same gender couples get nothing! This is the firm position of corporations and businesses everywhere who do not wish to provide equal benefits to gay couples as they give to straight couples. GET IT?
Flatlandogs:It’s a shame that many don’t have respect for others’ differences. Remember when the targets were black?
Flatlandogs:Well first John, I’m not black, nor am I gay. I’ve been married, I have three grown daughters nine grandchildren and one great-granddaughter. At the moment I’m just seeing what it’s like to be alone for the first time in my entire life. It’s interesting. My remote is my own, but when I lose it I can’t blame anyone else except maybe the cats, but it’s too heavy for them to pick it up with their paws.
My comments were aimed at those who gloat at the judgement. They seem to think that heterosexuals are superior and that only they should have the right to marriage.
The irony is that most marriages end up in divorce so how sacred can it be for the marriages that are one man and one woman?
Marriages are legal partnerships, if you doubt me try going through a divorce sometime.
Shersher: radio, are you serious? I can’t believe you actually attempted to rebut the 12 Reasons! The list is sarcastic. I don’t see how anyone could take the list seriously! It shows how ludicrous the arguments against gay marriage really are, by explicitly stating the arguments... and letting the obvious conclusions from these arguments follow, which are clearly not accurate.
Quote: Originally posted by radioengineer on 06 July 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not rights, or superiority, but Morals (or the lack of them.)
In your biased opinion.
Any one has the right to object to unacceptable behavior, when it effects, what we are bombarded with, day and night.
Yes, even people who object to your unacceptable behavior.
The same as the trash shown on TV. I know we can turn it off, but why should we have to consider that.
Why not?
Trashing Morality is just a slippery slope under the guise of liberty. I should have the right to walk down the street, without being barraged by immorality.
Unless you live in the heart of The Castro, I seriously doubt that you are being barraged by overtly gay people demonstrating their affection for each other as you walk down the street.
And shouldn’t they also have the right to walk down the street without being barraged by prejudiced, intolerant people?
But we are getting closer to the Abyss.
What is wrong is now right and what was right is now wrong.
Words like enlightened, or politically correct are pretenses to pervert morality.
It’s irritating when bigotry disguises itself as morality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henrietta:Hooray for all your posts Sherry.
That was an excellent example of sarcasm.
Obviously Radio does not understand sarcasm.
For those of us who enjoy that style, you are a winner.
Have you noticed that bigots, in general, always consider themselves to be morally superior to everyone else?
Where does Radio live anyway? I know people who would love to find that street which is being barraged by immorality. That could even be a great tourist attraction.
To all those who do have issues with this concept, please remember:
It takes all kinds of people to make a society, and
Live and Let Live is very good advice if you wish to co-exist with the rest of the people on this planet.
Let the good times roll!
Carpe diem from Henrietta
Shersher:Quote: We were put here to be fruitful. How fruitful is a homo union? It is not, because they do not produce anything. At best, they can only build on what someone else has produced.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
What makes you say we were put here to be fruitful? Does this mean you believe that infertile couples and people who never marry are useless and should not be here? What about people who are childless by choice? Or children who die before puberty? Or people who are mentally or physically disabled and can’t or don’t have children? Why are they here?
Quote: so yes I know there is a legal aspect to marriage, but it is a very minor aspect when a couple truly care for each other.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------