Ex-gays Stated Reasons to turn Straight

[Huggins293]

Please read below the reasons ex-gays give to turn straight. Have you ever encountered reasons such as this? Please comment about any statement and give your input:

I realized I was looking for a father figure that my dad was not.”“I want to overcome the wounds thrown on me via sexual abuse by other males who used me.”

“My homosexual desires seem to be rooted in a deficit that I feel and want another man to fill. [In contrast,] my heterosexual desires come from a sense of being complemented by the attributes of a woman.”

“I see it as a false and unsatisfactory way to cater to basic emotional needs that were not properly met in my childhood and adolescence.”

“These feelings always contradicted with my moral values. They’ve caused me much pain when they’ve come up within my male friendships.”

“I truly believe I can never be happy in a gay life and I’m positive that change is possible. This motivates me to seek change.”“

I have a strong relationship with God and anything that comes between that I don’t want in my life. This has been a huge obstacle in my relationship with God. I want to live the life God has for me, not the one I feel is easiest at times.”

“I am seeking a better relationship with God by giving up SSA for God’s will.”

I have my views that i will share later, but please offer comments on any of these views.

thanks Huggs

[1engelbythesea]

:confused: People have for centuries sublimated feelings. It is possible to self brain wash
and it requires constant reinforcement... But just as the mind is powerful the flesh is weak.
It may work for a while, but as soon as they think they are cured and stop the constant reinforcement their nature will return stronger than ever. Whether or not they act on it depends on how insecure or intimidated they are. Ted Haggart is an example, that is just my two cents.

[Giancarlo]

I bet they say those things before they hit up the local gay bar. Many of these "ex-gays" are caught there and often are caught with secret boyfriends.

[Huggins293]

I bet they say those things before they hit up the local gay bar. Many of these "ex-gays" are caught there and often are caught with secret boyfriends.
I have heard this before, but what I am still trying to find it is how do the justify homosexuality being immoral.

[Huggins293]

:confused: People have for centuries sublimated feelings. It is possible to self brain wash
and it requires constant reinforcement... But just as the mind is powerful the flesh is weak.
It may work for a while, but as soon as they think they are cured and stop the constant reinforcement their nature will return stronger than ever. Whether or not they act on it depends on how insecure or intimidated they are. Ted Haggart is an example, that is just my two cents.
What does this quote mean:

My homosexual desires seem to be rooted in a deficit that I feel and want another man to fill. [In contrast,] my heterosexual desires come from a sense of being complemented by the attributes of a woman.”
Has this dude been brainwashed so badly that he thinks complimitary attibrutes of a woman is an absolute superior optionl. Look how many times complimentary attributes in the hetero world lead to divorce. I am str8 guy and not into gay sexuality but the logic of heterosexuality in theory is baffling.

[Giancarlo]

I have heard this before, but what I am still trying to find it is how do the justify homosexuality being immoral.

Man sometimes I get so mad about hearing people trying to justify it as immoral and then bringing in their perspective of the bible. I hear it so many times. Just today, this religious preacher was telling me all this hateful stuff because I had a rainbow bracelet (while I was minding my own business at a bus stop). I'm tired of these people.

[Huggins293]

Man sometimes I get so mad about hearing people trying to justify it as immoral and then bringing in their perspective of the bible. I hear it so many times. Just today, this religious preacher was telling me all this hateful stuff because I had a rainbow bracelet (while I was minding my own business at a bus stop). I'm tired of these people.

I do get frustrated at their message as well dude. Believe me I do. But I do want to caution you about describing those who oppose homosexual behavior as people who hate homosexuals rather than homosexual behavior. It is still a misguided belief but homosexual opponents are known to be at least friendly and respectful to homosexuals. I know associates at my place of work who dislike homosexuality but respect and care about homosexuals.

This does not negate the fact that their anti-homosexual views are still based on bigotry and ignorance.

I also like to add that many of my peers and friends support many tenents of the heterosexist ideology.

[Giancarlo]

I do get frustrated at their message as well dude. Believe me I do. But I do want to caution you about describing those who oppose homosexual behavior as people who hate homosexuals rather than homosexual behavior. It is still a misguided belief but homosexual opponents are known to be at least friendly and respectful to homosexuals. I know associates at my place of work who dislike homosexuality but respect and care about homosexuals.

This does not negate the fact that their anti-homosexual views are still based on bigotry and ignorance.

I also like to add that many of my peers and friends support many tenents of the heterosexist ideology.

Those who oppose homosexual behavior and get in my face about it, are questioning my very existence. In other words, this guy was not friendly or respectful at all, and started telling me I was going to go to hell. For one thing, the people I speak of are the Fred Phelps types. I should of been more specific.

I also find it extremely difficult to find one who dislikes homosexuality, but respects homosexuals. Homosexuality is part of who I am, and if they don't like it... then they don't like me. Being a bigot does not change the fact they are hurting the person they direct the bigotry towards. Even if they are nice about it, telling a LGBT person they should change in 'respectful' terms... well this causes emotional hurt.

In other words, no matter how much they want to sugarcoat it, what they do is neither nice or respectful. The only nice and respectful position to take is to "live and let live".

Listen, I do understand what you're saying, but I can't say I agree.

[Huggins293]

Those who oppose homosexual behavior and get in my face about it, are questioning my very existence. In other words, this guy was not friendly or respectful at all, and started telling me I was going to go to hell. For one thing, the people I speak of are the Fred Phelps types. I should of been more specific.
He is very likely to border on hate or virtually hate. He is a vulgar heterosexist redneck.

I also find it extremely difficult to find one who dislikes homosexuality, but respects homosexuals. Homosexuality is part of who I am, and if they don't like it... then they don't like me. Being a bigot does not change the fact they are hurting the person they direct the bigotry towards.
I agree people who care about another group use hurtful means even thought it is not their intention to hurt. I agree that disliking homsexuality is virutally disrespecting homosexuality.


Even if they are nice about it, telling a LGBT person they should change in 'respectful' terms... well this causes emotional hurt.
This is especially devasting to a child, if it is their parent. I hate to say it but in that context I would not want to be gay and carry that burden. Although it is the moral equivalent of heterosexuality, I do not and would not have the courage to come out if I were gay.


I

[Giancarlo]

I agree people who care about another group use hurtful means even thought it is not their intention to hurt. I agree that disliking homsexuality is virutally disrespecting homosexuality.

So you think that the statement "while I like black people, I do not agree with their blackness". While this statement is ridiculous and totally incorrect, your logic is the same. It isn't about caring. Those who dislike homosexuality are ones who want to see us, gays and lesbians, suffer. Disliking homosexuality is disrespect to a person and is a form of abuse.


This is especially devasting to a child, if it is their parent. I hate to say it but in that context I would not want to be gay and carry that burden. Although it is the moral equivalent of heterosexuality, I do not and would not have the courage to come out if I were gay.


I

I am gay, and I know what it takes to live in this society. I just don't see your point at all. I cannot give credibility to the anti-gay people in this world. And I will not admit they have anything but pure hate in their hearts.

[kara speltz]

I am gay, and I know what it takes to live in this society. I just don't see your point at all. I cannot give credibility to the anti-gay people in this world. And I will not admit they have anything but pure hate in their hearts.


Dear Giancarlo: Again you seem to make everything so black and white, when most of it is varying shades of grey. I have had amazing dialogue with straight Christians (and even an exgay Christian) where it was clear to me that there was NO HATRED on their part. The vast majority of people have good hearts and really believe that they are trying to save our souls. It's a mistaken belief on their part, but there is no evil about us in their hearts.

I can't help but wonder why you are attracted to this series of forums when the basic principle is that all of us our children of God; all of us fall short of the mark, and judgment is not our role on this planet.

I attend a parish that is very gay friendly. But that doesn't mean that they have much perception about what heterosexual privelege is. So that's part of my work at my parish; helping people comprehend what heterosexual privelege is; what class privelege is and what white skin privelege is all about. The vast majority of my congregation would never intentionally hurt anyone, but they some times do by their ignorance. Just as I sometime hurt people with my ignorance. Ultimately, it's about overcoming ignorance. There is a huge difference between ignorance and hatred. True much hatred comes out of fear and ignorance, but they are not necessarily inseparatable.

Do you like to play devil's advocate? Is that why your phrase things in the way you do? So many of your postings seem to be provocative, I just wonder why.

Kara

[Giancarlo]

Dear Giancarlo: Again you seem to make everything so black and white, when most of it is varying shades of grey. I have had amazing dialogue with straight Christians (and even an exgay Christian) where it was clear to me that there was NO HATRED on their part. The vast majority of people have good hearts and really believe that they are trying to save our souls. It's a mistaken belief on their part, but there is no evil about us in their hearts.

I'm not putting this in black and white terms. I can see the varying shades of gray. However in this matter, anti-gay behavior is anti-gay behavior. It is hurtful and dangerous. There is no such thing as an "ex-gay" person, by the way. There is plenty of hatred in those who feel against gay people. I am not talking about christians who embrace homosexuals as human beings.

I can't help but wonder why you are attracted to this series of forums when the basic principle is that all of us our children of God; all of us fall short of the mark, and judgment is not our role on this planet.

I am wondering why you think this forum should exclude those who do not hold the same beliefs as you. I am agnostic/weak atheist. And doesn't it say "POLITICAL OPPRESSION" in the title?

I
Do you like to play devil's advocate? Is that why your phrase things in the way you do? So many of your postings seem to be provocative, I just wonder why.

Kara

My postings are not provocative. They are what I believe. I'm not playing devil's advocate. This is why I what I believe. I know for a fact there is no such thing as an "ex-gay" person, and I know for a fact that anti-gay behavior is hateful. There is no other way around it.

[Lydia]

This may be something that you've already thought of, Huggins, but one of the things that stuck out to me is that somel of those reasons (i.e. looking for a father figure, using relationships to fill in the cracks of one's emotional health) don't have anything to do with anyone's orientation.

They're due to other things: past trauma or abuse that hasn't been dealt with yet, poor interpersonal boundaries, a weak sense of self, and for some possibly an undiagnosed mental illness.

Apples and oranges were meant for fruit salads, not comparisons. ;)

[Beth K. Eyres]

Most of those reasons sound really canned. I think I've read some of them on Focus on the Family's website (or their kin website "Troubledwith"). Don't some of them sound really Freudian? But people will always seek reasons and try to find meaning. Maybe these reasons to try to go straight make sense in their heads and seem truth.
Then there are the two that suggest God and gay are incompatible. And that is a message out there in the world.
As for encountering any of these reasons personally, nope, don't know any ex-gays.

[Huggins293]

This may be something that you've already thought of, Huggins, but one of the things that stuck out to me is that somel of those reasons (i.e. looking for a father figure, using relationships to fill in the cracks of one's emotional health) don't have anything to do with anyone's orientation.

They're due to other things: past trauma or abuse that hasn't been dealt with yet, poor interpersonal boundaries, a weak sense of self, and for some possibly an undiagnosed mental illness.

Apples and oranges were meant for fruit salads, not comparisons. ;)
Good Point.

[Huggins293]

Dear Giancarlo: Again you seem to make everything so black and white, when most of it is varying shades of grey. I have had amazing dialogue with straight Christians (and even an exgay Christian) where it was clear to me that there was NO HATRED on their part. The vast majority of people have good hearts and really believe that they are trying to save our souls. It's a mistaken belief on their part, but there is no evil about us in their hearts.

I can't help but wonder why you are attracted to this series of forums when the basic principle is that all of us our children of God; all of us fall short of the mark, and judgment is not our role on this planet.

I attend a parish that is very gay friendly. But that doesn't mean that they have much perception about what heterosexual privelege is. So that's part of my work at my parish; helping people comprehend what heterosexual privelege is; what class privelege is and what white skin privelege is all about. The vast majority of my congregation would never intentionally hurt anyone, but they some times do by their ignorance. Just as I sometime hurt people with my ignorance. Ultimately, it's about overcoming ignorance. There is a huge difference between ignorance and hatred. True much hatred comes out of fear and ignorance, but they are not necessarily inseparatable.

Kara
Kara you said what I felt perfectly. As activists we can not paint all anti-gays as haters of homosexuals as persons. It would be inaccurate and it prevents anti-gays who actually love gays, from understanding their bigotryand ignorance. Simply because we assert anti-gays are loving doesn't mean how they love is not influenced by ignorance and bigotry.

[Giancarlo]

Kara you said what I felt perfectly. As activists we can not paint all anti-gays as haters of homosexuals as persons. It would be inaccurate and it prevents anti-gays who actually love gays, from understanding their bigotryand ignorance. Simply because we assert anti-gays are loving doesn't mean how they love is not influenced by ignorance and bigotry.

How are they not haters? How do they love us? Please. They are bigoted and arrogant. I'm starting to see an agenda here to sugarcoat the anti-gay beliefs.

[kara speltz]

How are they not haters? How do they love us? Please. They are bigoted and arrogant. I'm starting to see an agenda here to sugarcoat the anti-gay beliefs.

Oh for God's sakes, Giancarlo chill out! This website is committed to trying to follow the principles of nonviolence if that offends you then find another place to post. That's why I asked you what draws you to this forum, given that our basic understanding is that people are not our enemies, only ignorance is.

And if anyone is arrogant......

kara

[Giancarlo]

Oh for God's sakes, Giancarlo chill out! This website is committed to trying to follow the principles of nonviolence if that offends you then find another place to post. That's why I asked you what draws you to this forum, given that our basic understanding is that people are not our enemies, only ignorance is.

And if anyone is arrogant......

kara

I'm not a violent person. That simple. I am not trying to make enemies. I'm just speaking my mind. I'm not arrogant. I don't think it's right to accuse me of being violent.

[kara speltz]

Kara you said what I felt perfectly. As activists we can not paint all anti-gays as haters of homosexuals as persons. It would be inaccurate and it prevents anti-gays who actually love gays, from understanding their bigotryand ignorance. Simply because we assert anti-gays are loving doesn't mean how they love is not influenced by ignorance and bigotry.

Dear Huggins: You have said it clearly and precisely. I know at times as a member of an oppressed minority, I tend to expect people at times to have an agenda that is to deny me my rights. When the truth is they simply have no comprehension of what it means to live in a society that grants priveleges to class, race, money and heterosexuals.

A couple of weeks ago I gave a workshop at the National Catholic Worker gathering. The title of the workshop was, "Heterosexual Privelege and the Catholic Worker Movement." When the monthly newspaper came out from the host community, I expected they would probably not say much about my workshop, because of a history of ignoring our issues.

Much to my surprise, one of the main articles featured the workshop and more importantly used "heterosexual privelege," in the title of the article. So my assumptions were all wrong.

Clearly folks within the Catholic Worker are trying to add heterosexism to their understanding of privelege in our society. That made me really happy.

Kara

[kara speltz]

Kara and Giancarlo -- you are both getting a little hot under the collar here. Giancarlo has been hurt and is angry with those who have hurt him. That doesn't make him unwelcome here. Or give him the right to jump on well meaning straight people with both feet.

If someone steps on my foot it hurts regardless of their intention. So there is no difference in terms of consequences between someone who stomps me maliciously and one who merely steps backwards and trods on me without realizing.

There is a HUGE moral difference between the two. The first is a violent abuser of my rights, the second is merely a fellow human being who doesn't yet see the harm that they are doing to me.


Thats why so many people understand homosexuality differently once someone they know comes out. Many parents, children, siblings, and friends have come to the truth by this route. I used to think this was a kind of hypocrisy but now I see that it is not... its just one of the ways that people learn ... not so much with their heads as with their hearts.

If we attack such people before they finish the learning process we do them and ourselves more harm than good.


Dear David: I don't believe I was getting hot under the collar, simply frustrated with Giancarlo who clearly doesn't understand the precepts of nonviolence and criticizes those who try to follow those steps.

Also, while there may be a moral difference, between those who deliberately attack us and those who don't, that's not up to us to define. Judgment lies with God, not us. Remember the section of the steps to nonviolence that tell us our advesaires motives are of no importance? Yes, it's hard. Nonviolence is hard. I struggle constantly not to demonize people. It is not something that comes easily to me.

Attacking anyone clearly doesn't lead us into a nonviolent solution. It just adds to the problem. If it came across as my attacking Giancarlo, I apologize. I just find it difficult to hear his consistent criticism given that the premise of Soulforce is nonviolence and nonviolence should mean we try not to demonize.

We clearly all fall short of the mark.

Kara

[Giancarlo]

Dear David: I don't believe I was getting hot under the collar, simply frustrated with Giancarlo who clearly doesn't understand the precepts of nonviolence and criticizes those who try to follow those steps.

Wow.

I'm not a violent person. I have never advocated violence towards anyone. I do not like war. These are some simple things. I am deeply offended and quite hurt that someone would accuse me of being violent. Of course I'm non-violent. I would never raise my fist to anyone. I may be very expressive in my views, but that's part of my culture.

Also, while there may be a moral difference, between those who deliberately attack us and those who don't, that's not up to us to define. Judgment lies with God, not us. Remember the section of the steps to nonviolence that tell us our advesaires motives are of no importance? Yes, it's hard. Nonviolence is hard. I struggle constantly not to demonize people. It is not something that comes easily to me.

I have no problem with one believing in any religion they want. I have absolutely NO problem with it. As long as they don't force it on me or anyone else. I'm a live and let live person. The only people I criticize are those Christian Conservatives who seek to put their agenda into legislation because that is detrimental to gays and lesbians, and their families. Criticism is necessary. I may be more vocal about it, but again I'm half Italian/half Spanish... and politics is something I'm always vocal about.

Attacking anyone clearly doesn't lead us into a nonviolent solution. It just adds to the problem. If it came across as my attacking Giancarlo, I apologize. I just find it difficult to hear his consistent criticism given that the premise of Soulforce is nonviolence and nonviolence should mean we try not to demonize.

I am giving solutions, and arguments. I am not giving violence. I would never use violence against a person. I request an apology. Consistent criticism does not equal violence. It equals the right to question the way some of which go about doing things. If I were to meet the President, I would be peaceful in asking him questions about some of the things he has done.

[Huggins293]

Oh for God's sakes, Giancarlo chill out! This website is committed to trying to follow the principles of nonviolence if that offends you then find another place to post. That's why I asked you what draws you to this forum, given that our basic understanding is that people are not our enemies, only ignorance is.

And if anyone is arrogant......

kara

Kara, I do understand soulforce's motto, but I share Giancarlo's frustration toward the unfair judgment by heterosexist toward gays and lesbians. He is very upset and angry at the reasons that are used to justify heterosexism. I know many of these people are good intentioned but they are using their flesh instead of common sense to make moral determinations. I think that is in part of Giancarlo's frustration.

His frustration should remind all of us how brutally harmful and insulting heterosexism is to gays and lesbains.

[Giancarlo]

I reiterate this message:

I am not giving violence. I would never use violence against a person. I request an apology.

I have endured a lot of abuse from people who claim they are christians, especially during the time I was in high school.

[sammy1980]

so, shouldn't the people really want to change, for whatever reason, be given the benefit of a doubt?

[Giancarlo]

At the worst, the "ex-gay" movement has caused people to commit suicide because these people can't "change". This is sickening. In fact it disgusts me so much I want such "therapy" banned.

[revtj]

I want to return to the original statements by 'ex-gays' if I may...

I think these people are asking fierce questions most of us asked at some point in coming out. I feel like I went through 'trying on' just about every answer they are giving, trying to reconcile homosexuality w/christianity.

It is painful to read some of the statements because I know it's a false premise based on bad information and yet also reflects a deep, sincere desire to be pleasing to God.

[pnggrad79]

Hugg,
I, as a lesbian, stated those reasons in various forms but came to the conclusion after fighting it for 12 years, that my reasons were full of crap. All the praying, denying, begging God to take it away, etc seemed like futile attempts at making myself be something I was not. I am a lesbian and proud of it. I am now happier than I have ever been and kick myself for not owning up to this sooner. These people are brainwashed by a fundamentalist establishment and are trying to talk themselves into being straight because of this inner turmoil. I was once there, so I can't really talk, but I believe in God's grace and it is the only factor that allowed me to come to the conclusion that I did-that being gay is ok-but I had to come out to myself and to God before that happened. God loves me lesbian and all, and no one can separate me from His love-not James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robertson, repentAmerica, Fred Phelps, or George W. Bush. I will commit to pray for people held in a straight bondage when they are really gay. That is an evil spirit of religion and not God's love. :rainbow: Thank God I am gay, and thank God he allowed me to figure that out.

[Eugene]

“I truly believe I can never be happy in a gay life and I’m positive that change is possible. This motivates me to seek change.”“

Well, I don't know any "ex-gays", but I used this reason on myself a lot before I came to terms with my homosexuality. The problem with the statement is "gay life". What is a "gay life"? As I used the phrase, it carried the meaning of an immoral, self-destructive, Tom of Finland-type lifestyle. And while I know that there are gay people who live that way, it isn't representative of "gay life". "Gay life" is as varied as gay men and the lives they choose for themselves.

As far as being "positive that change is possible" and assuming that means "change of orientation", I deluded myself with that for years. It led me through at least 2 theological models of sanctification (Keswick and Wesleyan) before I realized I was wasting my life waiting for a change that God wasn't going to work in me. "Just a little more prayer or just a little more faith" -- it is an endless pursuit that keeps happiness pushed far into the future.

[Huggins293]

Hugg,
I, as a lesbian, stated those reasons in various forms but came to the conclusion after fighting it for 12 years, that my reasons were full of crap. All the praying, denying, begging God to take it away, etc seemed like futile attempts at making myself be something I was not. I am a lesbian and proud of it. I am now happier than I have ever been and kick myself for not owning up to this sooner. These people are brainwashed by a fundamentalist establishment and are trying to talk themselves into being straight because of this inner turmoil. I was once there, so I can't really talk, but I believe in God's grace and it is the only factor that allowed me to come to the conclusion that I did-that being gay is ok-but I had to come out to myself and to God before that happened. God loves me lesbian and all, and no one can separate me from His love-not James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robertson, repentAmerica, Fred Phelps, or George W. Bush. I will commit to pray for people held in a straight bondage when they are really gay. That is an evil spirit of religion and not God's love. :rainbow: Thank God I am gay, and thank God he allowed me to figure that out.


I have one thing that has been boggling my mind. How can a former lesbian be so heterosexist. Lesley, a member of CARM claims to be an ex-lesbian but from her biggoted rhetoric, you could not tell. You would have thought she was another closed minded str8 person who was str8 forever. But she is not. Just read some of her comments on this board. The website is:

[Huggins293]

It is painful to read some of the statements because I know it's a false premise based on bad information and yet also reflects a deep, sincere desire to be pleasing to God.

Unfortunately, good hearted heterosexists pity or have sympathy for gays for that reason.