Hello, My name is Thomas P.

[BronzDragon]

» Thom says:~Hello, My name is Thom. I just thought I would say something about why I am here before I respond to too many posts.

I am a Satanic Pagan, :eek: and have been ever in pursuit of arguments to keep Christians and myself honest about claims.


I have some reservations about the SoulForce perspective, but I expect these can be addressed in other forums. Here, I just wanna say, I don't care what a person believes, just why they believe it, and what they are willing to do about it.


I am in pursuit of an education to become an Addiction counselor, and in that ever winding road of education have found myself sort of accidently training to be a Gay Activist. Let's just say I've lost my little mind somewhere and the greater Self has been driving while I enjoy.



I look forward to this forum, and hope to learn as much as I share.

PS: I am nearly finished Rev White's book, Religion Gone Bad and am finding it to be inspiring. Also has revived my hope that the world is not going to burn under the thumb of a mob of Christnicks. :D

… Well, No good crying over spilled blood.
Wake up and smell the Jewel in the Lylyth.
Thomas Potter, Warlock; ReiKi 2°;:

[marutidas]

» Thom says:~Hello, My name is Thom. I just thought I would say something about why I am here before I respond to too many posts.

I am a Satanic Pagan, :eek: and have been ever in pursuit of arguments to keep Christians and myself honest about claims.


I have some reservations about the SoulForce perspective, but I expect these can be addressed in other forums. Here, I just wanna say, I don't care what a person believes, just why they believe it, and what they are willing to do about it.

I look forward to this forum, and hope to learn as much as I share.




Namaste Thom, My name is Maruti Das(servant of the son of the wind) in case you don't know you Hindu mythology.
Wow, we are attracting quite a diverse crowd.

Lets address this one thing at a time, Satanic Pagan....hmmm. I know a satanist, and I know many pagans, but never heard of a satanic pagan.
You might feel a little uncomfortable, especially when get some cc's in here.
I am one of the big voices about interfaith around here, and you are certainly entitled to believe what ever you what.

Which brings me to beilief, many here are christian, and some who are agnostic and some are atheist. But I will stick to what have learned so far.

First of all, even though that there are many Christians that speak out against homosexuality, there many who support us. So keep that in mind while you post here please. For me, because I am not qualified to talk about anyone elses faith, but for me God is not a beliefe that if I serve him that I will get something in return. I serve God best by helping others, This is my worship, I am what you could call a Hindu-Buddhist if you need to lable me,
That God is in everyone and everything for he is the source of all life. I have studied many other religions and everyone of them helps me understand God a Little more.

But real faith, has no definition, it is unique to each person. Words fail it, if you have not experienced it, then you will be hard pressed if you can find someone to explain it. Faith is not about beliving, Its about living, being the best human being you can be.

Soulforce is about non violent resistance, this includes verbal violence.
It is based on the idea that you cant put forth your argument in a open and honest manner, avoiding conversational falicies as much as possible.
Remember the ones who oppose us are still human beings, and they wish to be happy and free from suffering like everyone else. And evn though you cannot control another's actions, you can still control your own.

With closed palms, I bow to the Divinity within you.

[BruceChris]

I am very much trying to figure out who you are. Your introduction leaves many more questions un-answered (and un-asked) than answered. So you're a pagan, by which I guess you mean not a Christian.

You say that you seem to be becoming a Gay Activist. By this, I might guess that you may be running into a larger number of gay people in your addiction training than you might have expected. You may have positive feelings about those people, or at least you seem open to the possibility. You must, of course, realize that the gay people that you meet in treatment are, in many ways, not representitive of the gay community as a whole. Perhaps you may suspect that the way some gay people are treated may drive them to drink/use, or that that is what they may want you to believe.

You say that you are Satanic. By this, do you mean that you are simply out to play Devil's advocate, to see what you can learn, I think that's a great idea. If you really are Satanic, then I must suppose that you go out into the world periodicaly, and do various terrible things. Could you tell us about some of them? :confused: :eek:

You could, of course, go to some of the CC websites, and tell them that you are a Satanic Pagan. I am sure that they would love having you around a great deal more than we ever could. After all, it is people like you that keep them in donations. :dollar: :lol: :dollar: :lol:

You say:
"Here, I just wanna say, I don't care what a person believes, just why they believe it, and what they are willing to do about it." By this, I hope, you want to know about all of the wonderful things that we do because we are gay, and Christian. If you want to know what some of us are trying to do to stop these behaviors, you won't get very far. Perhaps you might wish to also ask some of us what is the source of our beliefs. You may very well want to call into question our honesty,and whether our stated beliefs are consistent with our stated principals, and our behavior. It is the belief of most of the people who come here, that the Conservative Christians (CC), and their leaders are far more hypocritical than most of our people, but you will have to decide that for yourself.

I think it would be great if you could just come and hang out, read our threads and posts, ask us some questions, and get to know us. :reading: :agree: :) :rainbow:

Oh, and by the way, are you related to Ann McCaffrey?

Peace, Love, and Rock-and Roll, Bruce Chris

[Emproph]

I am a Satanic Pagan, :eek: and have been ever in pursuit of arguments to keep Christians and myself honest about claims.


I have some reservations about the SoulForce perspective, but I expect these can be addressed in other forums. Here, I just wanna say, I don't care what a person believes, just why they believe it, and what they are willing to do about it.

Hey Thom,

I loved your whole intro but the part I quoted stood out for me.

I've been here for about a year and I still have difficulty with the non-violent ideal but I pretty much attribute that to my own human ego. That said, I'm Mr. logic around here - at least I try to be. There are many more here who are much more adept at effective non-violent communication, whom I continue to learn from.

Like you said about caring "why they believe it, and what they're going to do about it," for me that cuts to the heart of it, it's a fundamental question I've often overlooked in my dealings with 'fundamentalists.' Though I have definitely seen that spiritual non-violence can be very effective in extracting the answers to such questions.

Anyway, glad to have you and hope to see you around. :tup:

-Patrick

[BronzDragon]

Please explain what a Satanic Pagan is. Is it the same as a Satanist? Black Sabbath? sacrificing animals? anti-Christian imagery? Ritual abuse of children? abuse of Christian symbols and sacraments?

» Thom says: ☛ In my heart, Satanism and Paganism are complimentary to each other, each can learn from each other, and can contribute strength, honor, and honesty to each other.

If you define Pagan as I have, as “a respectable relationship with nature that is rather uninformed by civilization,” Then Satanism is the other end of the spectrum, “a respectable relationship with nature that is rather overly informed by civilization,” Each contributes to my way of life like two feet on the same path.

I expect someone will ask, "why Satan?" If we rely on the Hebrew and Christian Testaments, then I would observe what Satan did for Job and for the Christ.

For Job: Job did all that he did, and was righteous in the eyes of society (except his friends kept asking him to admit to some guilt so he could be saved). And Yet the Eternal One collaborated with Satan to correct a small flaw, fear of death and damnation. Job says it himself, “All that I have feared has come to me.” And so, The Eternal one worked with Satan to put Job back into perspective: You are going to die, soon, alone, and forever: now get on with your life!

For Christ, as Kama Mara did for Buddha: We have seen many world Saviors rise up to conquer the universe. Question, would we want some of them to be in such a position? Jim Jones? St Bernard de Clair Veau? Akhenaten? So, they test Christ, given options, a way out, or a way into insanity. If the would-be world savior chooses insanity or a way out, we have nothing to worry about, just keep the children away from him. If he chooses the path to enlightenment, and to subsequently enlighten others, then the test has proven of some value. In many mythic cycles, there are three major gods, one to create, one to sustain, one to destroy. Satan is there to sustain creation on it development and evolution.

More specifically, and on a personal level: Woden, the Norse King of the Asir, gave his right eye for eloquence, and sacrificed himself to his Self for wisdom and intelligence. Just as Satan refuses to allow social pressures to keep him from his goals, how can I do any less?

Modern Satanism is fundamentally a form of religious dissent, acknowledging that society has become a fundamental burden on its members, and the course needs to be corrected before disaster strikes. I just hope that in correcting the course we don’t cause more problems than we are solving. ~« Rev Thomas Potter; Warlock, ReiKi;
BronzDragon (http://www.geocities.com/TheBronzDragon/profile_0106.html); First Church of Satan (http://fcos.us/); DarkSide Coven.
❝ I wonder if [Pat Robertson] realizes the tragic consequences of his antihomosexual rhetoric. In the meantime, using the fear and loathing of homosexuals to raise funds and mobilize volunteers, Pat Robertson has become a major political and economic force in America and around the world. (Mel White; Religion Gone Bad) ❞

[BronzDragon]

I am very much trying to figure out who you are. Your introduction leaves many more questions un-answered (and un-asked) than answered. So you're a pagan, by which I guess you mean not a Christian.
» Thom says: ☛ I do not believe the appropriate antonym to Pagan is Christian. I believe the only appropriate antonym to Pagan is Urban. This is in large part because negative definitions are reactionary and problematic, and often separatism in its elite format. ~«

You say that you seem to be becoming a Gay Activist. By this, I might guess that you may be running into a larger number of gay people in your addiction training than you might have expected.
» Thom says: ☛ I asked a question, “Why does our nation feel so strongly about GLBT in the military?” I have read and studied history, both general and specific to the question; I have found myself become more of an activist, who happens to be Gay, and happens to be seeking answers on a more global level to the question. I have to wonder why, if they don’t wanna have sex with their own gender, do they have to be so mean to those of us who do?

I still wonder about what it is about differences (religious, political, sexual, physical) that invokes such fear, hate, and violence in people. And I do see this being internalized quite a lot.

As I study Addiction and Ministerial counseling, I find that Negative Addictions to substances and behaviors are very likely half-hearted attempts at suicide. I’ve had more than a couple of “short times” where the lust-object had to get drunk or high before they could touch me. I have to wonder about that, Why?

We define Meaning in Existential circles as that which encourages us to live and thrive. I think there is something in human nature that is fighting against human nature. We are human, we are therefore social animals. We need to be touched, sensually, intimately, and even sexually. Except for the sexual part (which comes with adolescence) babies die if no one cuddles them sensually and intimately, even though we meet every other need. Adults may die in ways that leave our bodies ticking. Given the depth of this need, and the depth of meaning that it cultivates, I see America becoming a society of lonely isolated souls who are dead in so many ways.

Fundamentalists say they love life, and yet they are killing us, depth and soul ~«

By this, do you mean that you are simply out to play Devil's advocate …. If you really are Satanic, then I must suppose that you go out into the world periodically, and do various terrible things. Could you tell us about some of them?

» Thom says: ☛ I suppose the worst I do is challenge cherished ideas and complacencies. I refuse to settle for second best, and don’t even settle for yesterday’s victories. In Buddhist like fashion, I find holding onto the past or hoping for the future is a form of neurosis that leads to so much suffering. I don’t go around yelling, “I am a Satanic Pagan.” When entering this forum, I felt it important to get that out of the way early, so that the rest of my stay can focus on Gay, nonviolent social dissent and activism.

I will say this: Having stepped out of my Christian frame of mind ever so long ago, has helped me learn to love myself, my fellow human being, and even the Eternal One and all that is within Xer. I am now at a point where I could sit with some Christians and have a civilized conversation, but I know with others I would have difficultly with that.

I would define a Christian as One who follows the teachings and examples of the Christ, whatever they believe about his historic condition, and calls him- or herself a Christian. I appreciate Christ from a Gnostic perspective, yet as I get beyond the Cross, I have not yet found any need to retrieve the label, “Christian” again, however remodeled it may have become. ~«

You say:
"Here, I just wanna say, I don't care what a person believes, just why they believe it, and what they are willing to do about it." By this, I hope, you want to know about all of the wonderful things that we do because we are gay, and Christian.

» Thom says: ☛ I do not come to a Christian-based forum to start a fight with Christians. Usually, I don’t need to. I come to a forum that has a Christian foundation in large part because I have found that not all Christians are like those I grew up with. We have a common need, and a common adversary: We both identify as Gay, and hold deep beliefs that some would call spiritual. I come to the SoulForce forum because I wish to learn how to cultivate a civil government that governs all of us. I want to learn how to be an activist, how to discipline my adversaries in such a way that I do not cause more pain and suffering than is already there. I am not a Satanist = antiChristian. I think the Christian Church-politic has gotten the message of Christ wrong: and I won’t say that the Church-politic is the only one. I am a Satanist = alternative perspective on life, philosophy, and goals of life. I raise my voice in the public forum to say, “Hay, I live here too, and wish to live in peace, not in piece!” ~« Rev Thomas Potter; Warlock, ReiKi;
(http://www.geocities.com/TheBronzDragon/profile_0106.html)
❝ When your candle burns low, you’ve got to believe that the last light shows you something besides the progress of darkness. Thomas Lanier “Tennessee” Williams (Bohemian Proverb) ❞

[BronzDragon]

Namaste Thom, You might feel a little uncomfortable, especially when get some cc's in here.

» Thom says: ☛ As you are familiar with the Hindu Paradigm, I might point out that in the Hindu religion, the differences between the Left- and Right-hand paths are not as black and white as they are in the West. I am not an Aghori, but the path I am on is similar in many respects. I seek the light, and I seek the peace of my true self, but I do not wish to lose myself within Siva, just to enjoy him and love him as I return to the world to share with others that same joy and peace.


And as such, I would note: I have come to love every attempt at offending me. I find that if they offend me, then I must have been off balance, myself. So, rather than blast the person who tried (or maybe weren't trying after all), I look within. If I see nothing wrong, what have I to fear? If I do, is it something I need to cull or cultivate?



I will not speak as a Christian authority for any but the Gnostic flavors. I will speak as one human, with some knowledge, experience, and hopes. ~«
Rev Thomas Potter; Warlock, ReiKi;


❝ When we deny or stifle parts of ourselves, we pay a heavy price: we feel a deep, amorphous sense of restriction; we are on guard; we are often troubled and puzzled by inner, yet alien, impulses demanding expression. When we can reclaim these split-off parts, we exderience a wholeness and a deep sense of liberation.
Irvin D. Yalom; The Theory and Practice of Group Psychotherapy. ❞

[marutidas]

[QUOTE/].
If you define Pagan as I have, as “a respectable relationship with nature that is rather uninformed by civilization,” Then Satanism is the other end of the spectrum, “a respectable relationship with nature that is rather overly informed by civilization,” Each contributes to my way of life like two feet on the same path.

Modern Satanism is fundamentally a form of religious dissent, acknowledging that society has become a fundamental burden on its members, and the course needs to be corrected before disaster strikes. I just hope that in correcting the course we don’t cause more problems than we are solving. [/Qutoe]

I have read many books on Paganism and been in contact with in the Pagan/Wiccan communtiy and they are very adimant about sepreating themselves from Satanism, Defining Satan as a Chritian deity, and they do not aknowledge any all evil entity. They do have a Horned God, the God of the Hunt, but he is the Goddess' Consort, not to be confused with Satan.

This may not be your case, Thom.
I just wanted to clear the air about paganism, for those who dont know.

I had step out of my Christian frame of mind long ago as well, Born into a souther baptist family, I dabbled in the black arts before I met a teacher, and she showed me the essence of Wicca. Was Satanism your first stop on your redefining yourself? I am also still on my path of discovery, although I am comfortable with being Hindu-Buddhist, I still go back a use some of the lessons I learn from Wicca.

The question that is really nagging me is Why Satanism?:confused:

[BronzDragon]

The question that is really nagging me is Why Satanism?:confused:


» Thom says: ☛ My simple answer is this :rolleyes: : Because it is the Culture of Faith that makes the most sence to me at this time. Also, I have come to a point where adding another label to my baggage would have no real function at this point.



To clarify, Satan is not Christian: He is Semitic. The Satan of the Early Hebrews is not the Satan of the Jews, is not the Satan of the Early Christians, is not the Satan of the Fundamentalist Christians or Muslims or Jews, is not the Satan of the Satanist. Read von Goeth's edition of Faust, and you are likely to get a better feel for the Satan of the Satanist of today's movement.



Try this: Satanism is me, it is not you. If we can get past the labels, we might do wonderful things together. ~«
Rev Thomas Potter; Warlock, ReiKi;

(http://www.geocities.com/TheBronzDragon/profile_0106.html)
❝ If those who lead you say to you, ‘See, the Kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you.
In they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
Yet if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.
Gospel of St Thomas. 3 ❞