What's a moto?

[BronzDragon]

» Thom says: ☛ I am often hearing the phrase, “Love the Sinner, hate the sin.” This leaves a rather fowl smell in my ears. As I was sitting in a Metropolitan Community Church, I got an interesting idea for a bumper sticker. Understand, the minister was connecting Genesis 1.22 with 1 John 4.7-8 (I am getting a lot of milage from Genesis 1.22). Later this idea sort of came into use as I was discussing the issue of justice and mercy with my aunt.

[scott snedeker]

I thinks It's a moped

[dewdrop_world]

Most recently I addressed this cliche by stating that it often works out to 99.9% hating the sin, and 0.1% loving the sinner.

Funny, when I put it that way, none of the usual anti-gay suspects on that bulletin board tried to refute it. ;)

James

[RainbowL'elly]

yeah, i think that phrase is a load of BS- seems like james here's right with his %.

you know, they say they love us but they don't like that we're queer- so i ask them if they would tell someone who's black that they love them but they don't like their skin colour.

[Dash]

Reading on the train today, I came read the following passage regarding Gandhi's concept of ahimsa or nonviolence:

Gandhi believes that the force of non-violence is drawn into one's activities only where a constant discrimination between the "doer" and his "deed", in all judgments and actions, has established in moral consciousness an active attitude of love and impersonal viewpoint of Truth.

The principles of action, non-retaliation, non-resistance and the "return of good for evil", that define ahimsa or Love, are not possible without this impersonal point of view and the active detachment that this discrimination makes possible. This discrimination is possible only as a result of a similar discrimination of "self" and "not-self" within one's own consciousness. The latter discrimination separates "cognition of self" from "identification with its temporary material vehicles".

In Gandhi's view, it is the realization of atman (lit., self, soul) in oneself that alone enables one to effectively discriminate between the "doer" and "deed" in others. It is this discrimination which consequently gives the capability to non-violently engage the evil in the "deed" while loving and not-hurting the person, the "doer". Gandhi believes that this discrimination and attitude alone can enable one to maintatin the poise and clarity that are necessary to see Truth and to perservere in the struggle to realize it in the midst of that engagement." ~ Gandhi and Non-violence, by William Borman, pp. 16-17

I agree that I am often turned off by the oft-quoted phrase that Christians invoke like a magic spell to deflect any criticism of a distinctively love-free attitude toward people they judge. Nonetheless, I'm thinking that there is probably a significant truth in their statement. If it fails to build a positive relationship between the "sinner" and the "Christian", perhaps it is only a sign that their application of that truth is faulty.

From the quote above, one would imagine that there is quite a bit of personal work involved before one can effectively live such a noble sentiment.

[Dash]

Oh yeah... I should probably say that I struggle greatly to apply this essential perspective to some of the Conservative Christian voices that oppose us (ie., our brother, James Dobson....yes?). As Soulforce is committed to the principles of nonviolence, I feel I must assume the burden of purifying my own thoughts and actions in this regard to so that I can bring the force of Truth to bear in our struggle for change.

[BronzDragon]

Most recently I addressed this cliche by stating that it often works out to 99.9% hating the sin, and 0.1% loving the sinner.

Funny, when I put it that way, none of the usual anti-gay suspects on that bulletin board tried to refute it.

you know, they say they love us but they don't like that we're queer- so i ask them if they would tell someone who's black that they love them but they don't like their skin colour.

» Thom says: ☛ In the end, when they have said and done everything, and we are standing before the Judge at the End of the World, we stand alone. Neither James Dobson nor Pope Benedict will be standing in for us, nor will they be sitting in the Seat of that Judge. So, while we live, we can only live for our own reasons, find our own meaning, and our own love. One thing I know about curses, we have a choice to accept them or reject them. If we reject the gift of a curse, the gift remains the property of those who would give them to us.

So, they hate us. They also say that God Hates Fags! And yet, they are so lost in their hate they don’t even see it. God is Love: We are the images of God. That is my equation. I don’t really care that they can’t get past the cross; my hand, my shoulder is available should they want it. I will live my life, and in so doing hope that I can inspire others to become more than they thought they could be. I mean, the heroes and heras – the real ones – were just as human as we were, and were often thrust into problems that commanded that they sink or swim.