On homosexuality and resurrection

[Pacific]

Dear members of this Forum.

Some time ago I disvovered the Forbidden Letters to Philip Gardiner. The first two letters are a little bit complicated (quick exchange of information between the Paris 4, the authors of the letters, and Philip Gardiner), but soon everything becomes clear.

The theory is that a man is resurrected through a microcosmic stone in his body(microcosmic means simply sub-atomic, so in the quantum-realm). And that means that stone is everywhere at the same time (no distances in the quantum world!).

This stone is the living stone, the Christ of 1 Peter 2:4, the stone of Transmutation of lead (metaphor for a mortal body into gold (an immortal body), so the stone of alchemy.

It propells the fire of resurrection (Kundalini). The phoenix is allegory for a human body consumed and recomposed through that (kundalini)fire.

The Letters say only certain homosexuals posess the necessary balance of the inner male/female to safely conduct that fire.:rolleyes: It is through this holy marriage (microcosmic sex) that the divine child is produced in the body. Through 'The Kingdom within, you don't know' (Jesus).

That's why it is written 'he who is near me (Christ as the stone) is near the fire, and he who is near the fire is near the Kingdom' (Gospel according to Thomas).

That stone is the Grail according to Wolfram von Eschenbach's Parzival. 'By the power of that stone (the Grail), the Phoenix (kundalini) burns to ashes, but the ashes restore him to life again'.

This means one is resurrected from a living body ('let the dead bury the dead') and not from a grave. Alive is only he, who is reborn from that fire.

That is alchemy. It is called the Work of the Sun by the Egyptians. And the magnum opus by the european alchemists.

Ibn Rumi summarizes that process with the words 'You have the energy of the [microcosmic] sun in you. But you keep knotting it up at the base of your spine.' [The Kundalini-snake and it's energy reside in the Sacrum]

And end-time theory is involved too. And if that theory is correct, then we are living in an interesting era, to put it mildly...

I would advise you to read at least

a) The Letters (5 in total)

b) Part 2 (13 emails)

c) The Paris 4 Newsletter

d) The Jonathan Rice and Otto Reich articles.

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters.htm

Best wishes,
Pacific.:)

[Pacific]

The Hendaye chapter is perhaps the single most astounding esoteric work in
western history. It offers proof that alchemy is somehow connected to
eschatology, that is, the timing of the end of the world. And it offers the
conclusion that a double catastrophe is imminent.[From 'A Monument to the
End of Time: Alchemy, Fulcanelli and the Great Cross' by Jay Weidner and
Vincent Bridges]

Taken from the Otto Reich article on the Forbidden Letters. (Link is in the left column.)

[keltic63]

will all of your posts include the promotion of and links to other websites?

[Pacific]

will all of your posts include the promotion of and links to other websites?

Dear Keltic,

certainly not. But it so happened that the response articles on the Forbidden Letters (the main reason why I joined this forum) cover so much that seems to be relevant to other threads, and that they justify separate discussions IMO too (nature of the soul/reincarnation). And it is about quality, isn't it, and not about the sources.

I'm the more surprised about your question, because I see many very noisy and silly posts that ad absolutely noyhing to a thread, yet no intervention or complaint from a moderator.

Best,
Pacific.:)

[Pacific]

A new article has been published. www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_16.htm

'In view of the recognized frequency of this phenomenon [of homosexuality], its interpretation as a pathological perversion is very dubious. The psychological findings show that it is rather a matter of incomplete detachment from the hermaphroditic archetype, coupled with a distinct resistance to identify with the role of a one-sided sexual being. Such a disposition should not be adjudged negative in all circumstances, in so far as it preserves the archetype of the Original Man, which a one-sided sexual being has, up to a point, lost.' [Carl Jung "Concerning the Archetypes and the Anima Concept," CW 9i, par. 146./italics by me] [see footnote 1]

[Joe Brummer]

I have read these letters and seen these websites before. The whole feel of the "secret" letters and societies is too fictional for me. This is the same feel as the Divinci Code. It is hard to take this seriously.

Please tell me what response or discussion where you hoping to find on this. Are you just looking to promote this idea or story? I am keeping an open mind, but must admit I am skeptical of the nature of this thread. I am hoping you can tell me.

[tpdncr4christ]

what is this stuff? who is mr gardnier? what are these secret letters? o my... i am so confuzzled:confused:

[TigerXero]

Could we have some background info. I've got no idea what you're talking about.

[NathanATX]

Could we have some background info. I've got no idea what you're talking about.

Pacific, TigerXero has a great point.

The brevity of your commentary on the links/text you post and the absence of any previous posts makes it look like these posts are not meant for actual discussion and/or relationship here on the forums, but rather to promote another's website.

To address this concern, I strongly suggest you contribute to the forums in other ways... i.e. participating in other conversations.

[Joe Brummer]

Pacific, TigerXero has a great point.

The brevity of your commentary on the links/text you post and the absence of any previous posts makes it look like these posts are not meant for actual discussion and/or relationship here on the forums, but rather to promote another's website.

To address this concern, I strongly suggest you contribute to the forums in other ways... i.e. participating in other conversations.

I think we need to give this poster the benefit of doubt and not assume he is promoting anyone's website. Those sites may promote his beliefs and we should respect that while some of us spread our beliefs by pointing others to websites, dos that mean we are promoting bible.com? let us not jumpt to conclusions about this.

I would like this poster to explain his belief in a bit more detail. Tells us what this is about. From there we should respect it, but if it is not adding to our discussions of faith or nonviolence, them maybe this thread should be locked.

So, how does this post you have made relate to faith or nonviolence?

What is your motives for posting what appears to be fictional? (and may not be, I am not making a judgement, merely an observation)

I am willing to indulge this long enough for it to prove its value to our discussions of faith and Nonviolence.

[Pacific]

I have read these letters and seen these websites before. The whole feel of the "secret" letters and societies is too fictional for me. This is the same feel as the Divinci Code. It is hard to take this seriously.

Please tell me what response or discussion where you hoping to find on this. Are you just looking to promote this idea or story? I am keeping an open mind, but must admit I am skeptical of the nature of this thread. I am hoping you can tell me.

Joe, thanks for your post. Scepticism is always good. But go read the newest article on the Letters by de la Censerie. It's impeccable.

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_16.htm

Best,
Pacific.:)

P.S.

Here's a quote from that article:

'In view of the recognized frequency of this phenomenon [of homosexuality], its interpretation as a pathological perversion is very dubious. The psychological findings show that it is rather a matter of incomplete detachment from the hermaphroditic archetype, coupled with a distinct resistance to identify with the role of a one-sided sexual being. Such a disposition should not be adjudged negative in all circumstances, in so far as it preserves the archetype of the Original Man, which a one-sided sexual being has, up to a point, lost.' [Carl Jung "Concerning the Archetypes and the Anima Concept," CW 9i, par. 146./italics by me] [see footnote 1]

[Pacific]

Could we have some background info. I've got no idea what you're talking about.

That's because your too lazy to study the topic-starter.

[Pacific]

Pacific, TigerXero has a great point.

The brevity of your commentary on the links/text you post and the absence of any previous posts makes it look like these posts are not meant for actual discussion and/or relationship here on the forums, but rather to promote another's website.

To address this concern, I strongly suggest you contribute to the forums in other ways... i.e. participating in other conversations.

Young man, you will see that I will support any actual discussion if people ask both actual and half-way intelligent questions. And what forum-rule says I have to participate in other conversations?

[Pacific]

Joe, you wrote...

I think we need to give this poster the benefit of doubt and not assume he is promoting anyone's website. Those sites may promote his beliefs and we should respect that while some of us spread our beliefs by pointing others to websites, dos that mean we are promoting bible.com? let us not jumpt to conclusions about this.

Nathan is not jumping to conclusions, if that is what you think. He's trying to find excuses to kill this thread and/or ban me from this Forum.

Best,
Pacific.;)

[Pacific]

Joe, here is my answer to you questions.

I would like this poster to explain his belief in a bit more detail. Tells us what this is about. From there we should respect it, but if it is not adding to our discussions of faith or nonviolence, them maybe this thread should be locked.

All you need is in the topic-starter. If you have any additional specific question, tell me. [I'm very busy, so I'm not here on a daily basis. You might have to wait for the answer.]

So, how does this post you have made relate to faith or nonviolence?

Alchemy is about deification. Of the human being.

What is your motives for posting what appears to be fictional? (and may not be, I am not making a judgement, merely an observation)

I don't think anything is fictional about Forbidden Letters part 2, emails 12 & 13.;)

I am willing to indulge this long enough for it to prove its value to our discussions of faith and Nonviolence.

Good.:)

[Daniel]

That's because your too lazy to study the topic-starter.

Nathan is not jumping to conclusions, if that is what you think. He's trying to find excuses to kill this thread and/or ban me from this Forum.

All you need is in the topic-starter. If you have any additional specific question, tell me.


Based on the statements above, you don't seem to be having the welcome you would like here. Let's see if we can get things going in a smoother way, ok?

How about sharing with this forum how you came upon this information, why you find it of such great interest personally, and how you think it can benefit those of us here who know nothing of it, and as you say for yourself, are very busy themselves?

More carrot and less stick please.

[scott snedeker]

"Did someone say carrots? oh boy! oh boy! oh boy! yum yum yum yum yum!":D

-----Sammy, my mini pony at feeding time:rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Scotty......I love ya! That's a big carrot. ;)

[dsdrane]

Hey, hey! This is a family show, Daniel!

:whistleblower:

;)

[keltic63]

Hey, hey! This is a family show, Daniel!

:whistleblower:

;)

this thread is ripe for innuendo! :D

[scott snedeker]

298his body may be little and his legs only 11 inches but he has a full size ............ Uh.....heart

[Daniel]

this thread is ripe for innuendo! :D


All I can say is that sometimes a carrot is just that: a carrot! :lol:

[Pacific]

Based on the statements above, you don't seem to be having the welcome you would like here. Let's see if we can get things going in a smoother way, ok?

O.k.

More carrot and less stick please.

That's a lot smoother already.

How about sharing with this forum how you came upon this information, why you find it of such great interest personally,

I've been redaing on alchemy for many years.

and how you think it can benefit those of us here who know nothing of it, and who are very busy

What's wrong with accumulating knowledge? And who is forced to be in this thread (if he's too busy for instance)?

[Pacific]

this thread is ripe for innuendo! :D

in·nu·en·do (ny-nd)
n. pl. in·nu·en·does
1. An indirect or subtle, usually derogatory implication in expression; an insinuation.

That's not related to non-violence, is it? ;)

[Pacific]

298his body may be little and his legs only 11 inches but he has a full size ............ Uh.....heart

When you come to know that your entitlement to joy is a given, All that remains is the exploration of the many different ways to let it in.

And preferably at the cost of others of course.

[Daniel]

I've been reading on alchemy for many years.


Ok.

What do you find interesting about alchemy? Were you brought up in any other faith? And if you are gay, have you found greater expression/acceptance in this current study of yours? And if is more than study and accumulating knowledge? Do you practice? And if so, what do you practice? Are their rituals that you perform?

I was brought up as a Christian, but have studied other faiths and various philosophies, including Heremeticism.

[Pacific]

All I can say is that sometimes a carrot is just that: a carrot! :lol:

All much too busy to read the Forbidden Letters but not to busy to compose stuff like this.

[Daniel:]and how you think it can benefit those of us here who know nothing of it, and as you say for yourself, are very busy themselves[bolds by me].

[Pacific]

Ok.

What do you find interesting about alchemy? Were you brought up in any other faith? And if you are gay, have you found greater expression/acceptance in this current study of yours? And if is more than study and accumulating knowledge? Do you practice? And if so, what do you practice? Are their rituals that you perform?

Daniel, this thread is about the alchemical theory of the Paris 4, not about me.

I was brought up as a Christian.

Christianity is eating the menu, not the meal. It's the alchemist, the future Christ, who's eating the meal.[under Forum-name/taken from the Hanno Temming article]

If you would have...

studied Hermeticism...

...you would have known that.;)

Have to go now.

[Daniel]

Daniel, this thread is about the alchemical theory of the Paris 4, not about me.

If you would have...


...you would have known that.;)

Have to go now.


Well. Some of us are curious about people and some of us are curious about ideas. And some of us are curious about both. You can count me as one the latter.

If you are uncomfortable with answering questions which you think are prying or intrusive, I can undertand that. However, your comment that I should know something about what interests you, doesn't strike me as particularly friendly despite the wink. If that's your version of a carrot, I'm afraid I can find little to bite into here.

[nmwolfboy]

After taking the time to go & look at these 'Forbidden Letters' i can't say i'm impressed. They appear to be an amalgam of Western Occult traditions. Syncretism without much coherence. They are poorly written, too.

While i poked around looking for more info about them, what was most interesting was finding posts on other forums that so closely mirror Pacific's postings here in style & content that i'm certain they were written by the same person. If that's true, then it would appear that Pacific has no interest in having a dialogue, unless you wholeheartedly embrace the letters & blockquote sections of them admiringly and then call that discussion.

My cynical nature looks at the 'forbidden letters' and sees just a marketing ploy for Philip Gardiner's newest book.

[Daniel]

After taking the time to go & look at these 'Forbidden Letters' i can't say i'm impressed. They appear to be an amalgam of Western Occult traditions. Syncretism without much coherence. They are poorly written, too.


One wants to be generous and give the benefit of the doubt to Mr. Pacific, but after going through the 'letters' and well as the correspondence on the site extolling them, one can only conclude that they are, in form, content and tone of voice, one and the same person.

As such (and I share your cynicism here wolfboy), the attempt at an effective marketing ploy isn't working very well.

What troubles me here is that I'm perfectly able to assume that Mr. Pacific/Gardiner has experienced actual life-changing phenomena. Why he chooses to cloak those experiences in what amounts to a great deal of ubfuscation is beyond me. I would like to suggest to him, however, the words of a Buddhist saint:

When you meet the Buddha on the Road, kill him!

Taking one's experiences and erecting a temple around them serves no one but the little self that creates it. That is, of course, unless one is in the literary game for financial gain. if that is so, Mr. Pacific/Gardiner is going to have to to study the craft of writing a great deal more than is evidenced here.

As the saying goes, you can fool some people some of the time....

[Joe Brummer]

It there really a Paris 4?

Are these letters and secret socieities real?

That could be the debate, but it doesn't belong in the nonviolence and faith form. Although this thread has been a good practice at nonviolence, I don't feel it belongs here.

[andrewlittle]

Gnosis can be wonderful. Special gnosis in the mind of one person is always terrifying, however.

Absolutism is not limited to conservative forms of Christianity, Islam, etc., but can be found anywhere in which "proofs" are regurgitated verbatim from sources of "ultimate knowledge". Posting "proofs" absent any evidence of reflective thought or critical assessment is no different than blindly posting biblical quotes to criticize or condemn without ever having thought through the implications.

Pacific, forgive me, but your constant regurgitation of what others think seems immature and unreflective. You proof text the thoughts of others and post them guised as somehow being helpful to those at this site. How are these quotes helpful to the members of Soulforce, or intended to elicit conversation?

When someone asks for clarification you answered, "That's because your too lazy to study the topic-starter."

When someone noticed you didin't seem interested in dialogue, you wrote, "Young man, you will see that I will support any actual discussion if people ask both actual and half-way intelligent questions. And what forum-rule says I have to participate in other conversations?"

You seem incapable or unwilling to discuss what you "know", opting instead to vomit the words of other people as if they are the absolute, unquestionable truth.

When snake-oil salesmen are asked about the efficacy of their products, they generally just keep reciting the words on the label, like they portray some unquestionable truth that only the specially gifted can understand. Anyone who doesn't understand or who press for more information is dismissed as too thick, stupid, or ignorant.

Snake-oil comes in many forms, but in the end it just a compilation of ingredients - or words - that add up to empty promises. I haven't read anything in your links - and I have read them - that gives this empty elixer any value whatsoever.

But, I'm sure you'll just dismiss me as too lazy, too stupid, or whatever, to understand the life-giving magic you are selling. If that's the case, so be it - I'll just languish in my ignorance and be willing to pay the price as a few specially insightful people reap the all the benefits of divine knowledge.

[TigerXero]

I'm not lazy, just ignorant. I viewed the letters before posting, but I think that only made matters worse [for my understanding of them]. They look like something the Church would not approve of reading. What relation do they have to Christianity?

[scott snedeker]

Dear Pacific,

Affimation of self is a need common to all of us. I am pagan in part because I was disaffirmed by christians. Now that I have met gay-affirming christans I no longer feel threatened and even have come to embrace Christ's ideal of universal and unconditional love. My metaphysical beliefs are that he was a remarkable human, but with a genius that saw love in all.

yesterday I thumbed through The Alchemist at Borders. The spiritual journey of the shepherd boy had parallels to my own. The connection with self.

I think it represents yet another path to this common goal.

Homophobia pushed us off our path and connection to unconditional love of self and others. So when we find this precious gift we defend it.

It is not necessary for you to defend Alchemy from me. I now see it as a path, similar to my own, toward reconnection to unconditional love of self and others, with no less and no more legitimacy. It is another of the many diverse ways to let in joy

[kara speltz]

Pacific, forgive me, but your constant regurgitation of what others think seems immature and unreflective. You proof text the thoughts of others and post them guised as somehow being helpful to those at this site. How are these quotes helpful to the members of Soulforce, or intended to elicit conversation?

When someone asks for clarification you answered, "That's because your too lazy to study the topic-starter."


But, I'm sure you'll just dismiss me as too lazy, too stupid, or whatever, to understand the life-giving magic you are selling. If that's the case, so be it - I'll just languish in my ignorance and be willing to pay the price as a few specially insightful people reap the all the benefits of divine knowledge.

Dear Andrew: I agree with your analysis of Pacific. I have seen these kinds of posts a lot in the mail that Soulforce receives. It's clear in such cases that the aim of the writer, is not dialogue but to insult and prove that they are "right," and we are wrong. Well they surely are "right" in one sense and that's they way the cling to the Religious Right's dehomanization of all gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

I suspect responding to Pacific simply gives him/her another opportunity to assualt us, so I think I'm off this particular thread.

Kara

[Pacific]

If you are uncomfortable with answering questions which you think are prying or intrusive, I can undertand that.

I nowhere said I was uncomfortable with that. That's what you make of it in an attempt to frame me.

However, your comment that I should know something about what interests you, doesn't strike me as particularly friendly despite the wink.

And I am not particalry thrilled by 'commands' like...

More carrot and less stick please.

[Pacific]

After taking the time to go & look at these 'Forbidden Letters' i can't say i'm impressed. They appear to be an amalgam of Western Occult traditions.

They are? This is from the Magnus Strom response article. Have fun.

"I've studied alchemy for over twenty years and there are many things I've never seen in literature.

The (1) decapitation by a thread for instance. Is that in literature?
The (2)metallic like wheel in the decapitated head?
The alchemist (3)being attached to the floor at two points?
The (4)child's-voice?
The (5)details on John the Baptist?
And the (6)stuff on the tree being planted in the garden where one waits for the fruit? That's wonderful alchemical allegory I've never discovered before myself and never saw discussed anywhere either in literature.
The (7)endtime-pope-alchemy-code (I've never seen anyone discover that)?
That homosexuality (eight) is a requirement for alchemy?
That (9) the stone of transmutation ignites Kundalini?
The (10) part on (public) Mark chapter 14, verse 51?
The (11) stuff on the 120 BCE manuscript?
The (12) Caephas-VITRIOL-connection?
The fact (13) that the 7th chakra is to open first, and not last, and to stay open alone for many years?
The (14) amazing theory (which makes sense) that the main characters in Parzival are one and the same person?
The (15) stuff on the ovarium/testicle?
As well as the (16) stuff on the footwashing, including the tale on the son of God having a foot fetish of some kind?


Again, where can this all be found? Let alone in many places."

They (i.e. the Letters) are poorly written, too.

Perhaps your French is better.


While i poked around looking for more info about them, what was most interesting was finding posts on other forums that so closely mirror Pacific's postings here in style & content that i'm certain they were written by the same person.

I'm on two other Forums too and copying in a topic-starter (and edit it a litlle) if it's a good text is better than to publish a not so good text written by yourself.

If that's true, then it would appear that Pacific has no interest in having a dialogue.

The first good question or remark on my topic-starter (meaning one actually deailing with the alchemy of the Letters) has yet to be posted here.

unless you wholeheartedly embrace the letters & blockquote sections of them admiringly and then call that discussion.

??????????

My cynical nature looks at the 'forbidden letters' and sees just a marketing ploy for Philip Gardiner's newest book.

??????????

I am sick to the teeth of talking about the Letters."
-- Philip Gardiner on July 14th 2006

[Pacific]

One wants to be generous and give the benefit of the doubt to Mr. Pacific, but after going through the 'letters' and well as the correspondence on the site extolling them, one can only conclude that they are, in form, content and tone of voice, one and the same person.

As such (and I share your cynicism here wolfboy), the attempt at an effective marketing ploy isn't working very well.

What troubles me here is that I'm perfectly able to assume that Mr. Pacific/Gardiner has experienced actual life-changing phenomena. Why he chooses to cloak those experiences in what amounts to a great deal of ubfuscation is beyond me. I would like to suggest to him, however, the words of a Buddhist saint:

When you meet the Buddha on the Road, kill him!

Taking one's experiences and erecting a temple around them serves no one but the little self that creates it. That is, of course, unless one is in the literary game for financial gain. if that is so, Mr. Pacific/Gardiner is going to have to to study the craft of writing a great deal more than is evidenced here.

As the saying goes, you can fool some people some of the time....

?????????????

No, there are no links to the completely fraudulent Paris 4 on this website because it has all come from within the mind of one deluded and intimately psychotic and bipolar individual. Those who take it all seriously are being deluded themselves by a psychotic individual, which strangely attracts other psychotic individuals. Beware of the trap. Others have walked blind into it."
[Philip Gardiner on his website]

54.


'I will not answer any more questions on the (Forbidden) Letters, which certain individuals seem to have a stake in perpetuating across the net.'
[Philip Gardiner ten minutes after he, for the first time, jumped a public discussion on the Forbidden Letters in July 2006, and was jumped back.][Rice article]

Are we perhaps on paranoiaforce.org?

[Pacific]

It there really a Paris 4?

Are these letters and secret socieities real?

That could be the debate, but it doesn't belong in the nonviolence and faith form. Although this thread has been a good practice at nonviolence, I don't feel it belongs here.


Practise, that's worth something Joe!

[Pacific]

Gnosis can be wonderful. Special gnosis in the mind of one person is always terrifying, however.

Gnosis is mostly terrifying. All Gnosis is about alchemy (very little people know this), meaning, the divine (kundalini) spark within.

There is no broad, light and safe path to paradise. It's the rape of the Resurrection and the terror of the Night of the Soul, a dark, narrow and dangerous path, to quote Jesus, that is going to do the trick. And no uninvited man passes the flaming kundalini-sword of Eden safely. But whoever does, will be overcome through the Great Work of Alchemy in the end. And once that is done, he will reign over the universe timelessly with Christ, his new microcosmic head. That is the core of the Gospel, the Good Message.[under Forum-name] ]


Pacific, forgive me, but your constant regurgitation of what others think seems immature and unreflective.

?????


When someone asks for clarification you answered, "That's because your too lazy to study the topic-starter."

You're framing me. And that's not about non-violence. Please read his original question (he was in a way asking for the topic-starter to be recomposed).

Could we have some background info. I've got no idea what you're talking about.

When someone noticed you didin't seem interested in dialogue,

You're framing again.

you wrote, "Young man, you will see that I will support any actual discussion if people ask both actual and half-way intelligent questions. And what forum-rule says I have to participate in other conversations?" You seem incapable or unwilling to discuss what you "know", opting instead to vomit the words of other people as if they are the absolute, unquestionable truth.

I don't think I care for your choice of words here.

When snake-oil salesmen are asked about the efficacy of their products, they generally just keep reciting the words on the label, like they portray some unquestionable truth that only the specially gifted can understand. Anyone who doesn't understand or who press for more information is dismissed as too thick, stupid, or ignorant.

I called someone lazy, not stupid. Whát's more, the person I called lazy called himself ignorant.

I'm not lazy, just ignorant.


Snake-oil comes in many forms, but in the end it just a compilation of ingredients - or words - that add up to empty promises. I haven't read anything in your links - and I have read them - that gives this empty elixer any value whatsoever. But, I'm sure you'll just dismiss me as too lazy, too stupid, or whatever, to understand the life-giving magic you are selling. If that's the case, so be it - I'll just languish in my ignorance and be willing to pay the price as a few specially insightful people reap the all the benefits of divine knowledge.

From this last post alone I can see just how alarmed you are by the Letters.;)

[Pacific]

Dear Scott,

thank you for your post.

Here we go.

Dear Pacific,

Affimation of self is a need common to all of us. I am pagan in part because I was disaffirmed by christians. Now that I have met gay-affirming christans I no longer feel threatened and even have come to embrace Christ's ideal of universal and unconditional love. My metaphysical beliefs are that he was a remarkable human, but with a genius that saw love in all.

Allow me to quote from the Rice-article (I would agree with those quotes).

45.

'Whether Jesus ever actually existed has long been debated. The argument, very well documented, is, that there is absolutely no corroborating evidence of his existence in documents, other than highly suspect Christian sources.' [R.Eisler]




46.

'If Jesus had only done half of what he is supposed to have done, then portions of that half would have been in Roman and Jewish documents written before 34 AD.' [Musing]




47.

'The earliest rabbinic writings make no mention of the Christian godman. Only when Christianity became a serious challenge to Judaism did the Rabbis start to manufacture black propaganda of their own.' [ K. Humphreys on www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm ]




48.

'As Kenneth Humphreys points out (www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm), Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius weren't even born in 33 AD.' [Musing]




49.

'We don't know whether a man called Jesus ever lived (...), but the Gospel never took place.' [The Paris 4]




50.

'The few words on Jesus outside the Bible we have from the second half of the first century only prove a faith was there. That people believed he had existed. Not that he had existed.' [Musing]




51.

'Virtually all the commentators simply cannot cut the emotional umbilical cord tying them to the idealistic image of the Nazarene Jesus they have created in their minds.' [N. Carter]




52.

'The acts of Jesus are as fictional as the acts of Parzival.' [The Paris 4]




yesterday I thumbed through The Alchemist at Borders. The spiritual journey of the shepherd boy had parallels to my own. The connection with self.

Exactly, the Self, the only living God there is.

I think it represents yet another path to this common goal.

Homophobia pushed us off our path and connection to unconditional love of self and others. So when we find this precious gift we defend it.

Yes.

It is not necessary for you to defend Alchemy from me.

Actually I only promoted alchemy here. Alchemy doesn't need to be defended (explained perhaps, but not defended). It's about deification. It's force being the only living God in the universe.


I now see it as a path, similar to my own, toward reconnection to unconditional love of self and others, with no less and no more legitimacy. It is another of the many diverse ways to let in joy

I don't think alchemy is an alternative to anything. The authentic joy it will produce in the triumphing alchemist will be of a different kind too than the joy we know as mortals. The 'animal joy'.

Best,
Pacific.

[Pacific]

Dear Andrew: I agree with your analysis of Pacific. I have seen these kinds of posts a lot in the mail that Soulforce receives. It's clear in such cases that the aim of the writer, is not dialogue but to insult and prove that they are "right," and we are wrong. Well they surely are "right" in one sense and that's they way the cling to the Religious Right's dehomanization of all gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

I suspect responding to Pacific simply gives him/her another opportunity to assualt us, so I think I'm off this particular thread.

Kara

the aim of the writer, is not dialogue but to insult and prove that they are "right," and we are wrong.

??????

that's they way the cling to the Religious Right's dehomanization of all gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

??????

I suspect responding to Pacific simply gives him/her another opportunity to assualt us.

Dear Kara,

since you publicly accused me of coming here to assault forum-members, I feel sligthy entiteld now to advise you publicly to see a psychiatrist. Because there is no doubt on my mind you need one. Goodday.

[Pacific]

I'm leaving this board.

Pacific

[Daniel]

Dear Kara,

since you publicly accused me of coming here to assault forum-members, I feel sligthy entiteld now to advise you publicly to see a psychiatrist. Because there is no doubt on my mind you need one. Goodday.

A wise therapist once said to me: "If you listen carefully to a person, they will tell you what their problem is, how to deal with it, and then ignore what they said."

[Joe Brummer]

A wise therapist once said to me: "If you listen carefully to a person, they will tell you what their problem is, how to deal with it, and than ignore what they said."

And you Daniel, have nailed the issue with these words.....

Our good friend Pacific has come to the board, presented an issue, told us how we won't listen to his truths, quoted those truths from some source and then left in a huff because we would not listen to his version of the truth....

Where have I heard this before?

Adding to this, Pacific acknowledged that my questions were good, but didn't answer them. He should run for president with that tactic, it has worked for many a politician and failed many people in need of beliefs that work in the real world.

It comes down to this: We all think we have something to add to the world, but when faced with the notion we must prove our truth, we run, back down, or bash others. We quote sources, but never speak from our hearts.

Speak from you heart and you will not go wrong!

[Pacific]

I came back to this forum to copy a post, and yes, the brave who have been at work after I left.

A wise therapist once said to me: "If you listen carefully to a person, they will tell you what their problem is, how to deal with it, and then ignore what they said."

Because that's what you do too all the time, ignore what people say on this forum.

[Pacific]

And you Daniel, have nailed the issue with these words.....

Our good friend Pacific has come to the board, presented an issue, told us how we won't listen to his truths, quoted those truths from some source and then left in a huff because we would not listen to his version of the truth....

Where have I heard this before?

I don't know where you have heard this before, Brummer, but I know what framing is aswell as the Commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

Adding to this, Pacific acknowledged that my questions were good

I did?

but didn't answer them.

I didn't answer some of your questions. These two in fact:

It there really a Paris 4?

Are these letters and secret socieities real?

Because how on earth should I know whether there is really a Paris and whether these letters and secret societies are real? Goes without answering for a half way intelligent person.

He should run for president with that tactic

Since this is the non-violence section I shall not tell you for what 'office' you should run.

It comes down to this: We all think we have something to add to the world, but when faced with the notion we must prove our truth, we run, back down, or bash others.

????

We quote sources, but never speak from our hearts.

You don't understand the quotes, you don't know the first thing about my heart, but you post. Naturally.

Speak from you heart and you will not go wrong!

Brummer, if I would speak from my heart to you all in relation to your posts, I'd be banned from this Forum.

And another thing: I am not your good friend.:sick:

[Jamie McDaniel]

This thread has been closed.