On reincarnation

[Pacific]

I don't believe in 'life after death'. And would agree with this quote, down here.
Would you too?

(...)that there is no such thing as reincarnation. And if people feel they remember past lifes, they actually remember a past life of somebody else. The macrocosmos and everything that has ever happened in that cosmos, is in the microcosmos. And that cosmos is passed on in our genes. So yes, we can get flashes from things that happened in the past, but they didn't happen to us personally. You are born once with a soul and a body, and a third agent [Spirit] can come in to save that body and soul by making it immortal in the Work of the Sun. Hence: woe the soul that depends on the flesh, and woe the flesh hat depends on the soul. [Gospel of Thomas]

Taken from the Hanno Temming article www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters.htm

[Lydia]

Carl Jung believed in something like this. He called it the Collective Unconscious - another way to describe it would be to say that we're all born with access to our the collective memory of all homo sapians who ever lived before us.

I thought you might be interested in that tidbit. :)

I've had a dream or two about the life of someone who lived long ago that was so specific in details that I couldn't possibly know that it made me wonder if I hadn't tapped into the memories of one of our ancient ancestors.

[Emproph]

I think Lydia put it well, that’s even better than the genetic memory theory that I reference below. At least those theories/ideas are better refutations than “because the Bible says so,” or “because I don’t remember living before.”
~~
Just a few musings I’ve been having...

1) If it’s genetic memory, wouldn’t one need to be a direct descendent from that person? So what if that person never had children?

2) As far as my experience with it goes, the memories I have, explain in full, many of the emotional and even physical problems I’ve had in this life. Which tends to validate the idea of karma. Obviously though, that conviction only works for me as I can’t share my experience any more than saying so.

3) And technically, if reincarnation were true, every time we are born into a new life – that is our “one and only” life, we are a completely separate and unique person, even if we’ve lived before. I would think that that’s where the “woe to the flesh that depends on the spirit” thing comes in. It doesn’t matter if reincarnation or karma is true, it’s about learning how to love right here and now that is most important.
4) Then there’s the idea that, what if we are “appointed only one live to live” and we want to come back? Is there a rule against that? If you “made it" to heaven and asked God to come back, would God say no?
~~
For me reincarnation is a stepping stone (back) to the understanding that we are all one being. Without the understanding of our own eternal nature, the concept of reincarnation almost confuses that issue. Ultimately there’s only one of us here anyway. There’s only one "I AM." All the individual “I ams” of creation combined – along with their source (God) – equal the great I AM (God). (creation being the "son," as in the son of the Father)

It’s my understanding that the very reason we are convinced there is no reincarnation is to provide a certain guarantee of focus on this life. In which case, ultimately, whether reincarnation is true or not is a nonissue. It’s all about now.

And I have to admit, there are definite consequences to the “memory” of having lived before. For instance, I take the absence of the fear of death for granted. I am often ignorant of motives based on the fear of death. The “war on terror” is a perfect example. It's really a war of terror on terror – fear fighting fear.

My perspective limits my ability to communicate effectively on the same level as those who are “deathly” afraid of death. Throw the fear of eternal hell into the mix and you’ve definitely got a deadly cocktail of the fear of death..
~~
So it’s definitely possible that I tapped into genetic memory or the collective unconscious, but that doesn’t explain the specific connections between those experiences and the ones I’m having now. On the flip side, reincarnation / karma fully explain the understanding of God’s perfect justice, in lieu of a one time unfair shot (life is suffering) at life with eternal hell (or nothing) as a potential consequence.

Forgive me, I haven’t read all your posts and only bits and pieces of the links you’ve posted, but you said at the top that you don’t believe in ‘life after death,’ so are you an atheist, or did you mean to say you don’t believe in life after life? :)

[Pacific]

For me believing in reincarnation is just another trick to deal with your mortality.

You write:

It doesn’t matter if reincarnation or karma is true, it’s about learning how to love right here and now that is most important.

I think to love right we have to overcome our carnal nature. And I think that can only be done through the alchemical process.

Best,
Pacific.

[Emproph]

I think to love right we have to overcome our carnal nature. And I think that can only be done through the alchemical process.

Best,
Pacific.
I definitely agree with that first part, but tell me a bit about the "alchemical process" if you could, enough to get me interested perhaps. I've been clicking on the links you've offered but haven't really known what to look for yet as far as meaning goes.. :)

Edit: Never mind, you explained as much in your "Can we influence our salvation?" thread. I'll have to take a closer look at those letters. Thanks.

btw I totally agree. :tup:

[nmwolfboy]

i'll bite on this one.

i do believe in life after this life. The form of that afterlife i'm not so sure of. Maybe it's as simple as the matter that forms my body continues in the natural cycle of decay & renewal. Maybe my awareness continues to exist & grow, still somehow related to my incarnate personality. Maybe i receive a new body, a glorified one & a continued life to worship God. Maybe it's immersion in the eternal existence of God. Maybe it's a form of existence so far removed from what i know now that it can only be described metaphorically.

Now reincarnation, that's a subject i've chewed on for many years. It's an understandable supposition, since the natural world around us exists in repeating cycles. Day to night & back again, the seasons, etc. However, what always brings me up short when considering reincarnation & kharma is this: what makes us think that time & space apply to discarnate spirit? I don't believe that God's existence is limited to a linear timeline, nor is He limited by the same spatial rules that seem to apply to us in this corporeal life. Given that we are made in the image of God (another discussion to have) why would the laws of space & time apply to our non-corporeal souls?

So given that time & space are apparent constraints of this manifested universe, and quite possibly do not apply otherwise, why do the popular views of reincarnation seem to typically follow a linear incarnation path? From past life to present life to future life. From past kharma to present situation? If the constraints of time do not exist outside the body, why can't all of a person's incarnations (assuming that there are more than one) be viewed as existing simultaneously, with kharmic influence (assuming that it exists as a vehicle for growth & progress) being rather a dynamic interchange between lives instead of cause & effect? If the discarnate soul isn't constrained by space or time, then why can't it inhabit multiple incarnations concurrently?

Those are some of the ideas that clank around in my brain when i consider reincarnation.

What do i really believe? i believe in the idea that somehow my life continues after the death of my body. That the life eternal is so incomprehensible to our brains our species relies on allegory & metaphor in attempting to grasp the idea of it. That we could all be wrong. i accept the doctine of the Church because it's as verifiable an explanation as any other that humankind has professed. i think the idea of genetic memory is interesting and has some merit.

Death is another of this life's Mysteries. Relax. We'll only know what it holds when we each experience it firsthand. Meanwhile i'm enjoying the Mystery of living!

[nmwolfboy]

I think to love right we have to overcome our carnal nature.

Respectfully, i find i disagree. i think in order to love right our carnal and spiritual natures must be in harmony. Neither should be ascendent over the other. Both are gifts of God.

i think this follows the example of Christ, both 'fully human and fully God'.