You Won't Believe it...but maybe you will

[pnggrad79]

My daughter goes to see my ex every other weekend and so I went to get her today from him. She told me and my wife that the pastor of the church (a fundamentalist Southern Baptist church) where she goes when she is with him, resigned last Sunday without warning to anyone. He made the announcement saying that he would be leaving to go to a "purpose-driven church", and I guess the members took it to mean that if he was going to leave to go to a church like that, it meant they weren't "purpose-driven" and they got mad. Since this announcement, several people from the church have engaged in petty backbiting against this man, who left for whatever reason. They told him that since he resigned to not even come back. They changed the lock on the church office so he can't go in to even clean out his office. The staff won't even speak to him. Several church members said that if he preached today that they would go elsewhere to church.

Now I used to be member of this church, before I came out as a lesbian. Now I am not welcome either, but I feel for this poor man, who is not being assaulted by the childishness of this immature congregation. But I have to say it is typical of them. Is this the kind of behavior in all straight churches? It seems that it is but I could be wrong. Sad, sad, sad. :(

[Daniel]

Can you reach out to the guy in some way? Sounds like he could use a real friend. Just a crazy thought on my part.

[Jennifer5]

Wow, harsh... but then again I don't completely feel that way... I wish so much that my dads church would do that to him... and I don't know why his last church didn't do that to him...


But I'm sure this is different...

[keltic63]

Interesting that he chose to insult them as he was going out the door.....

if he felt that the congregation was somehow lacking, perhaps he could have put that on himself, saying something like "my ministry here has reached it's end; I've done all I can do" or "God is calling me to more challenging work..." anything that puts the onus on himself, or a higher calling instead of something like "you people aren't producing, so I'm outta here!"

[pnggrad79]

I definitely think he could've chosen to handle his departure a little differently, but I just think the church itself is petty and immature. It is almost like little kids arguing and going back and forth over nothing. So what, he wants to leave, for who knows what reason-let him, but don't stab him in the back because he wants to leave.

It just reminds me of when I filed for divorce from my now ex. When the judge ordered him to vacate the house-he got his whole Sunday School class to come over and help him pack up. Mind you, I was there, but I might as well have been air because they didn't acknowledge me, say anything to me, acted as if I was a piece of furniture or a picture on the wall. And one of the members of the church worked as an aide in my school. I was walking down the hall one day and she was coming the other way. When she realized it was me, she crossed over to the other side of the hallway, sneered when she passed me, and kept on walking. I went home and told my girlfriend we needed to move far away from this town and this church. And we did. 85 miles away. The ONLY one to say ANYTHING nice to me through this whole ordeal was the Music Minister (now retired). He said, "I am sorry things didn't work out with you and your husband, but I want you to know I think you are one of the finest altos I have ever heard and I will miss you." He has no idea I am a lesbian, but I took the compliment and left that church forever. Good riddance, as far as I am concerned.

[keltic63]

I definitely think he could've chosen to handle his departure a little differently, but I just think the church itself is petty and immature. It is almost like little kids arguing and going back and forth over nothing. So what, he wants to leave, for who knows what reason-let him, but don't stab him in the back because he wants to leave.

It just reminds me of when I filed for divorce from my now ex. When the judge ordered him to vacate the house-he got his whole Sunday School class to come over and help him pack up. Mind you, I was there, but I might as well have been air because they didn't acknowledge me, say anything to me, acted as if I was a piece of furniture or a picture on the wall. And one of the members of the church worked as an aide in my school. I was walking down the hall one day and she was coming the other way. When she realized it was me, she crossed over to the other side of the hallway, sneered when she passed me, and kept on walking. I went home and told my girlfriend we needed to move far away from this town and this church. And we did. 85 miles away. The ONLY one to say ANYTHING nice to me through this whole ordeal was the Music Minister (now retired). He said, "I am sorry things didn't work out with you and your husband, but I want you to know I think you are one of the finest altos I have ever heard and I will miss you." He has no idea I am a lesbian, but I took the compliment and left that church forever. Good riddance, as far as I am concerned.

Honey, that music minister knew.....he's one of us! ;)

[pnggrad79]

I don't think so Keltic, but ya never know. I loved that man to death. He is one of the few I can actually stay in a room with for 5 minutes and not want to punch. I hate to come off sounding like some man-hating lesbian, but I really don't like most men, straight men, that is. I love gay men! Straight men get on my last nerve. Gay men are fun, don't think that women are put here to be their doormat, and have a great sense of humor! At least the gay men I know.

My wife and I went to Christmas dinner with a friend of ours from church who is a gay man. We were the ONLY lesbians there surrounded by about 30 gay men of all sizes,shapes,colors, and I felt a little outnumbered, but once I got to talking to some of them, they were really quite charming and personable. Generally speaking, I like gay men, because they are the best girlfriends. (if you know what I mean)

Lesbians, on the other hand, I don't know. Most of the ones I have known are either painfully shy, or just mean. I really would like to get to know some other lesbians besides myself, but the ones at my church, by and large are personable, but kinda stand offish. There are some that I really like as friends, and others I am kinda scared of. I have no interest in getting into all their drama. Like gay men don't have drama, please! I guess I came out too late in life to be a "real" lesbian. :rolleyes:

[Zerbie]

I don't think so Keltic, but ya never know. I loved that man to death. He is one of the few I can actually stay in a room with for 5 minutes and not want to punch. I hate to come off sounding like some man-hating lesbian, but I really don't like most men, straight men, that is. I love gay men! Straight men get on my last nerve. Gay men are fun, don't think that women are put here to be their doormat, and have a great sense of humor! At least the gay men I know.

My wife and I went to Christmas dinner with a friend of ours from church who is a gay man. We were the ONLY lesbians there surrounded by about 30 gay men of all sizes,shapes,colors, and I felt a little outnumbered, but once I got to talking to some of them, they were really quite charming and personable. Generally speaking, I like gay men, because they are the best girlfriends. (if you know what I mean)

Lesbians, on the other hand, I don't know. Most of the ones I have known are either painfully shy, or just mean. I really would like to get to know some other lesbians besides myself, but the ones at my church, by and large are personable, but kinda stand offish. There are some that I really like as friends, and others I am kinda scared of. I have no interest in getting into all their drama. Like gay men don't have drama, please! I guess I came out too late in life to be a "real" lesbian. :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I SO connect to this, PNG!!!!!!!! I adored gay men since the day I was born.

[Jennifer5]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I SO connect to this, PNG!!!!!!!! I adored gay men since the day I was born.

:lol: I think all women love the gay men! ...unless they have some weird uptight religous beliefs... but what I notice is that because of that, a lot of the time, straight men will tend to be very threatened by gay men:rolleyes:

[Zerbie]

:lol: I think all women love the gay men! ...unless they have some weird uptight religous beliefs...:

I wish that were true - sometimes homophobia can be quite nasty even without the religious training behind it. I've been close to some extremely homophobic women - both straight and lesbian (bi). :( 3 of them were far more vitriolic towards gay men than towards lesbians. One of them was a self-proclaimed f**h** who said she "loved" gay men - but she always ended up singling out some poor guy, harassing him, calling and showing up in the wee hours asking him to. . . you know. It was so disturbing! Then she was so overtly hateful towards lesbians it scared the crap outta me. I have my theories about what was behind all that.

[Jennifer5]

I wish that were true - sometimes homophobia can be quite nasty even without the religious training behind it. I've been close to some extremely homophobic women - both straight and lesbian (bi). :( 3 of them were far more vitriolic towards gay men than towards lesbians. One of them was a self-proclaimed f**h** who said she "loved" gay men - but she always ended up singling out some poor guy, harassing him, calling and showing up in the wee hours asking him to. . . you know. It was so disturbing! Then she was so overtly hateful towards lesbians it scared the crap outta me. I have my theories about what was behind all that.

...that's just sad. I always feel kind of bad when women fall for their gay 'boyfriends' (I suppose that word still works)

[Zerbie]

It was much different than normal "falling." She would set out to do it. Pick a guy, strike up a friendship, then when she had his trust, this stuff would start. Time after time. she once perceived me as in the way - and very nearly had to be pulled off me, claws and all.

She was a predator.

[Jennifer5]

that would definately be scary

[pnggrad79]

When women fall for gay men, it is kinda like "barking up the wrong tree". Don't you think so?:p

[Zerbie]

When women fall for gay men, it is kinda like "barking up the wrong tree". Don't you think so?:p

:agree:

Or men chasing lesbians, or lesbians falling for straight chicks, blah blah blah. Just have the sense not to chase your crush off a cliff if they don't feel anything in return!! Unrequited love is unrequited love no matter who is doing the loving, and who's doing the non-requiting. And crushes are sweet sweet fun. Just - no predators please!

I think unrequited attraction was behind my mom's homophobia. When I was 10 or so she told me she hoped I would never meet any gay men because I might fall in love with one and he wouldn't like me back.
I said "So what?"
She said "You would be rejected and have your heart broken."
And I said "Or that could happen with a straight man who just doesn't happen to like me the same way."
She: "Oh this would be different. This would be much much worse."
Me: "Really? How?"
She: "He would be rejecting you for being a woman!!"
Me: "I'd much rather be rejected for being a woman than for being ME."
Pause.

:lol:

[Zerbie]

How, at the age of 10, did you get to be smarter than your mother? You must have been a terrifying child to parent !!:D

:o :p

I knew who I was.

That was a disturbing night. That conversation wasn't long (a year or so I guess, the timeline is screwed up in my head:p ) after a terrifying night when I came out to my mom (I'm bi) in a knock-down drag-out fight. Conclusion: Do NOT come out when you're 9. :disagree:

Actually I had the impression when little that I was intimidating my mom. She even told me some times later that she didn't know what to do with me. I was often asking questions she didn't understand. It doesn't help that she has very low self-esteem too. I kind of felt on my own. I was considered terribly difficult and labeled a Problem Child.

Anyway, I was born knowing a lot about the sexual orientation issue. The first time I heard of homosexuality and the spooky repression around it I thought, "Oh yeah, this.[B][/B

[superhippy7890]

lol to your first story!

[BruceChris]

Does any of this have anything to do with why it is that some of the best times of my life were when I was mechanic for a lesbian motorcycle club, or that it seems that every time I fall for a girl, she falls for one too?

Well, I like to look on the bright side. I have a whole church full of friends of Dorothy's, and almost all of them are just good buds.

These days, when I meet somebody that I like, I find a way to check this out.

And when people behave like those in your church, it means that they are afraid and weak on the inside, or that they have avoided coming to terms with something important in their lives. Like knowing who they are, inside. Pray for them. (And pray for me, too, when I get caught practicing this stuff without a licence!).

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[frankandcathy]

Hi there png...I haven't talked to you before and I've been off for a while but I'm back for now.

I wanted to say that I'm really sorry to hear about BOTH church experiences you had. I've certainly had my own bad experiences as well and have been hurt, shamed, and felt abandoned...and I'm a white, middle-class, straight, conservative woman!

At any rate, I wanted to encourage you to indeed reach out to anyone involved whom you think might be hurting.

I also wanted to encourage you that, no, not "all straight churches" are "this way." But almost every human being is...across the board. Selfishness, pettiness, and childishness are all too common to the human condition (myself included). The hope with a church is, of course, that there will be enough mature people there to keep the immature ones in check! Obviously that didn't happen at your old church. :(

~C

[scott snedeker]

Dear frankandcathy,

I think I detect a little granola in your White flower mix! Defintely adds to the flavor! Being 98% pure granola myself (the extra nutty kind) I have a sense for its presence.

Life is change. And you definitely seem to be in the land of the living. Your exploration in to the way other people think, believe, and live is very progressive. It is a contrast to being conservative and I'm sure it is invigorating. But don't worry! Granola is not poisonous!:lol: I live in granola heaven (found it in rural florida) Where nearly everybody is as crunchy and nutty as I am. Even the sheriff takes his breaks to pet my goat (Pippin) several times a week. Good thing too because one of my neighbors reported that I was starving my animals (they are all Fat and spoiled!).
After 30 seconds the animal control raid turned in to a petting zoo field trip. One of the officers even offered to by the next mini pony stud (male) foal when it is born

Turns out my mini dwarf bull (he is the size of a calf full grown) got loose and was pestering a neighbor 2 miles away for treats and she got tired of it. He can be pushy and will butt you if you don't give him what he wants....now!:lol:

Ok! sorry I diverged to animal stories. Just like a granny showing her grandchildren pics.

Life is supposed to be fun. And the joy of discovery comes with exploration. The day you stop changing is your last.

Love and affirmation,

Scotty:cowboy: