Joel Osteen advocating "ex-gay" theology

[NathanATX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNQJQNlY3KY

[Zerbie]

Well I hope none of their kids are gay.
Anyone notice that his wife refers to the possibility of a gay child growing up wanting a relationship legally recognized as "happen(ing) to me"? Not as happening to another person - hypothetically, to her child?
Other creepy and ignorant things.

Great questions from LK! :tup:

Are these people pastors? Or musicians?

[NathanATX]

They are pastors of the biggest church in the US, Lakewood in Houston. I think 30-40,000 people attend services each week.

(That wasn't a typo.) :)

[pnggrad79]

Nate,
You are correct. Ironically and sadly, a LOT of gay people attend this man's church AND think he hung the moon. The few times I have heard him, he made me want to throw up. He spouts off prosperity gospel and feel good religion and his voice alone makes me ill. We just had a lesbian couple leave our small congregation to go to this mega church. I was like ok, go and be fed, until they find out you are lesbians, then let's see how it goes. They liked Lakewood's worship, a 15 member praise team and choir. It has a lot of bells and whistles and we have a 3 member praise team. We can't compete and don't try.

This is a mega church and a LOT of people are drawn to it because it tickles their ears, tells them what they want to hear, and that is really attractive. I saw Joel and Victoria on Larry King and when Larry asked them about homosexuality they said, "We don't think it is God's best and we have personally seen many homosexuals changed through the power of God. But we aren't going to judge or turn people away because they are gay. We all have sins in our lives and it is no worse than any other issue." I wanted to punch this man! First of all, homosexuality is NOT a sin! Secondly, you tolerate gay people in your congregation with the hope that God will change them! And Gay people fall for it. No he doesn't blast them from the pulpit but he wants them to change.

Seriously this man makes me ill.:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

[pnggrad79]

Zerbie,
In that interview with Larry King, Joel and Victoria Osteen said that if one of their children were gay, they would still love them, but pray for God to change them. As if being gay were something wrong and not quite up to par. I am getting madder and madder, I can't even type. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Daniel]

Like pnggrad, I saw them on Larry King and found their reaction to Larry's questions about gay people (Haggard etc) telling. You could tell Mr. Osteen didn't want to 'go there', but Larry, in that way that he has, just didn't let up. Osteen looked like he was being forced to eat a lemon- his ever present smile froze a bit and stayed that way until the inquisition was over. Not an iota of compassion for the likes of us, I'm afraid.

When Larry asked him " How can something be a sin if you don't choose it?" Osteen answered: "Well....that's the debate." And then went on to equate being gay with adultery.

What is it with people like this? They don't want their hermetic and materialist existence troubled by real life? And real people with real concerns? Some people are wise when young. Others never grow up.

I am sorry to say that I feel like Mr. Osteen will always be Peter Pan. And that is not to his credit. He can't fly when the going gets rough.

Dear Mr. Osteen- if you or your associates are reading this: I would like you to know that GLBTQ folks are as blessed as straight folks. And I'm sorry that you can't see that. It's you that needs to change, not us. How big is your love?

[nmwolfboy]

Stepford evangelists.

Seriously, the Osteen's branding of Christianity & Christian worship scares me. Maybe it's just my WASP upbringing, but such public piety makes me question their sincerity. Is it the Holy Spirit inspiring their congregation, or is it the idolatry of their high production value worship experience?

:headbang:

-scott

[Emproph]

Last I remember them from a Larry King episode, he was all like, “Ah don’t judge, ah don’t judge, my wife does, but ah don’t judge. So I gave him a free pass on the prosperity thing. So thanks Nathan for posting this, and pnggrad for sealing the deal – Now that was a diatribe you could feel. I had to go back and watch the clip again. Then I had to go find the transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/22/lkl.01.html), then I had to go autopsy the transcript.

KING: Where do you -- what's your view of homosexuality?

J. OSTEEN: Well, to me, Larry, it's not god's best. It's not, you know, the scripture clearly defines that it's not -- it's considered a sin. And -- but you know what? There's a fine line. So is lying, so is cheating, so is having an adulterous affair..

So I think we have to be careful not to beat people up. Our church has always been open to everyone that wants to come, regardless of who you are. And so we've seen people overcome things like that.He tows the party line – First equating the “sin” of homosexuality with the intent to harm others, then equating overcoming the desire to harm others with overcoming the desire to love and be loved.

That kind of oversight for a 'Christian' is inexcusable. I don't care if he hasn't thought about it before, that man has enough money to hire people to think about it for him.

oops:
KING: But, Joel, how could something be a sin if you don't choose it?

J. OSTEEN: Well, I think that's the debate and I don't know. I don't have all the answers. Wait there’s more:
I think sometimes -- I don't think we can say everybody doesn't choose it. I think sometimes we do choose things. But we have to, you know, maybe -- for instance, Larry, maybe I have a -- or just a male has a -- and I'm married and I have tendencies toward another female.
“Tendencies toward adultery?”
“Tendencies toward more women?”

But Larry, wanting more than enough is just as much of a sin as wanting just enough, isn’t it?.. Honey?
~~
I’m glad you said it Daniel about how he didn’t “want to go there” and the forced smile. I was afraid I was reading too much into it because I wanted to say he was squirming. You could see that he was uncomfortable selling out like that. He didn’t want to, but he did it for his fortune. I saw empire in his/their eyes. Every word he spoke, every nuanced suggestion was 'give or take' millions of dollars in lost revenue. The only way to "win" on the homosexuality issue is to minimize the damage.
~~
Anyone notice that his wife refers to the possibility of a gay child growing up wanting a relationship legally recognized as "happen(ing) to me"? Not as happening to another person - hypothetically, to her child?

Great questions from LK! :tup:

Are these people pastors? Or musicians?
They're pastors, or at least he is. I catch him on tv often enough. Impeccable observation btw. :tup: And I was really impressed with Larry too, he hounded 'em.
KING: Victoria, what do you think?

V. OSTEEN: I couldn't agree with that either. I mean my belief is that, you know, it's for a man and a woman. And it's not -- it just -- it wouldn't be something that I would feel in good conscience about. I mean I wouldn't want my children to do it [civil union] and so...

KING: If your children were gay, you'd still discourage it? Because you can't choose that.

V. OSTEEN: I'd love them. I'd love my children no matter what. And -- but I wouldn't be -- I can't say I'd be happy about it. I couldn't say, you know -- I'm not going to bend it just because it's happened to me. There's things that happen and they're, you know, they happen.
Well we now know what the moment looks like when "Christians" sell their souls for fortune and fame on national tv. woo hoo

[pnggrad79]

Joel and Victoria Osteen do have dollar signs in their eyes and preach an ambiguous gospel every weekend. It sells! People by the thousands are buying it. They like what they hear. They like to hear that just by having enough faith or giving money to Lakewood, that they can have the kind of car J &V drive and the kind of house J & V live in. You don't hear, "Take up your cross and follow me". You don't hear about the early church selling everything and living in complete unity and harmony. OMG! Don't tell people there is sacrifice involved in giving your life to Christ. We can't tell people that in dying to ourselves we let Christ live in us. If we do that, we will dwindle to the same populations that most churches have- 200 on a good day, and most of them, 50 on a good day. By no means! If we only had a congregation of 50, we couldn't afford the Bentley, or the million dollar home in River Oaks. Joel Osteen is a plastic (in more ways than one) preacher with a plastic wife, a plastic church, and a plastic life. To me, he and his prosperity gospel is like the Pied Piper and he is leading thousands down a road that does not lead to God. :headbang: :smashy:

[NathanATX]

Apparently in 2004, Osteen was at a book signing at Barnes & Noble and said "Homosexuality isn't God's best."

He got a TON of heat from fundamentalists for not outright condemning GLBT people. Here's a link to an article in the Southern Baptist Press: http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/storydownload.asp?ID=24027

Maybe he just wanted to clear things up so the fundamentalists would back off?

[NathanATX]

Remember this debacle?

Sept. 29, 2006, 12:43AM


FAA fines Victoria Osteen $3,000

Pastor's wife is also being sued by a flight attendant claiming assault

By ARMANDO VILLAFRANCA
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

The Federal Aviation Administration has fined Victoria Osteen, wife of Lakewood pastor Joel Osteen, $3,000 after determining she had interfered with a Continental Airlines crew member aboard a flight late last year.


And this week, a flight attendant filed suit claiming she was assaulted by Victoria Osteen during that flight to Vail, Colo., for the Christmas holidays.
Osteen has paid the penalty, which is not an admission of guilt.
On the civil matter, Rusty Hardin, Osteen's attorney, called the lawsuit a "ridiculous" attempt to seek money from Osteen, whose husband is a best-selling author as well as the pastor of the largest church in Houston.
In February, the agency notified Osteen that officials were planning to fine her $5,000 for the Dec. 19, 2005, incident, according to a letter the FAA sent to Osteen. The agency reduced the fine, which Osteen paid last month.
Aboard the plane, according to the letter, Osteen asked flight attendant Verssie Ray for napkins to clean a liquid on the armrest of her first-class seat. When Ray returned with the napkins, Osteen told Ray she should clean the armrest because it was her job to do so, according to the findings of the FAA investigation.
After Ray told Osteen she would get another flight attendant, Osteen left her seat and asked flight attendant Maria Johnson to clean the seat.
"You (Osteen) grabbed FA Johnson's right forearm and led her to your seat," the FAA report stated.
Johnson told Osteen she would get aircraft-cleaning personnel to take care of the liquid stain and headed for the cockpit. Osteen followed Johnson toward the front of the airplane where she encountered flight attendant Sharon Brown and asked to speak to someone in authority.
"You (Osteen) then tried to get past FA (Sharon) Brown by pushing her out of the way and elbowing her in the left breast," the FAA report stated.
"Both FAs told you (Osteen) that you could not go into the cockpit. You (Osteen) then grabbed the arm of FA Johnson who had just exited the cockpit, said then come here and pulled her into the galley stating that you had enough of FA Brown."
Johnson and Brown then asked to have Osteen to be removed from the plane, but she and her family left voluntarily.

Claims filed in civil suit

In her civil suit, Brown, a flight manager aboard Continental Flight 1602, stated she was pushed and elbowed in the chest by Osteen, who had walked up to the cockpit demanding "to speak with someone of authority."

The lawsuit, filed Monday, is seeking unspecified damages.
Hardin said Osteen did not assault Brown.
"Victoria Osteen never assaulted her, absolutely never assaulted her," Hardin said.
"This flight attendant just flipped out. I can't answer why, the only thing I can say is that Victoria Osteen is the last person in the world who would assault someone.
"This is an absolutely ridiculous lawsuit that never should have been filed."
Hardin and Lakewood Church said Osteen would not comment about the lawsuit or the allegation.
Reginald McKamie, Brown's attorney, said his client and flight attendant Maria Johnson filed complaints with the FAA.
He said several statements were filed supporting Brown's claim that she was assaulted by Osteen, including Johnson, who he said witnessed the assault. McKamie said Brown decided to pursue the lawsuit because Osteen still claims that they exchanged words because of a misunderstanding and that no assault took place.
"Victoria Osteen sent a letter out to her congregation saying she acted in a Christianlike manner. We're going to let a jury of 12 people from Harris County decide whether she acted in a Christianlike manner," McKamie said.

'Verbal misunderstanding'

Hardin said Osteen paid the fine to put the issue to rest and because she believes "very, very strongly" that she did nothing wrong.

"It's unfortunate that the flight attendant thought it necessary to file a lawsuit over a verbal misunderstanding. It was never assault," Hardin said. "She would never had paid the fine if the finding had a finding of an assault."
Don Iloff, brother of Victoria Osteen and spokesman for Lakewood Church, however, cited errors in the report, namely that the plane departed from Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.
Hardin said another attorney representing Brown had contacted him stating that his client wanted an apology from Osteen. Hardin said he never heard from the attorney again or anything related to the incident until the lawsuit was filed.
The lawsuit stated Brown sustained bruising and other pain as a result of the encounter. Brown is seeking compensation for past and future medical care, emotional pain, suffering, mental anguish and humiliation.
avillafranca@chron.com (avillafranca@chron.com)

[pnggrad79]

Nate,
You should have seen both J & V skirt this issue with Larry King. He mentioned it and both of them smiled their plastic smiles and said, "It was just an unfortunate incident and it wouldn't do anyone any good to bring it up again." or some such nonsense.:mad:

[NathanATX]

What's they saying... "there's an element of truth in jest"...

Victoria Osteen Tells All to a Landover Lady

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0106/osteen.html

[pnggrad79]

nate,
I hope this Landover Baptist Church is just satire! it is hilarious!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: