I have a really important question

[Jules619]

How to deal with the fundamentalist that told me, It said simply that homosexual activity was sin. Period. End of Story. As to your question on why certain laws are practiced today, and certain are not from the Old Testament, I told you. Do your homework. In the OT, most of the law refers to the ancient jewish tribes of Israel. The law is applicable to us ONLY if it is repeated in the New Testament and the law prefigures the person and work of Christ. That is why those verses you talk about referring to stoning for adultery and sexual activity during a womans period are not kept today. You dont know anything about theology and that is dangerous. That is the reason that most Christians find that homosexuality is wrong and that some of the old Jewish laws no longer apply to us. That is my clear cut answer to you. Study up on your theology. The only substance I need is Biblical scripture. I believe in ABSOLUTES. This was actually said to me...I am not out to "win", but I certainly do not believe as a fundamentalist does...and I certainly know he is wrong...how do address his whole OT/NT analogy? I was trying to say that there are many laws that are not practiced today, but that the bible specifies that we follow....showing that bible was interpretated in totally different ways...anyone's thoughts??

[Joe Brummer]

Simple, where is the biblical support for this theory? Where in the NT does it say we should start eating things with no fins? Where does it say anything about this theory. It is cute, but not biblically supported.

What is important to note is two keys things about this person's repsonse to you.

1) this person insults you by saying you know nothing about theology. So right from the top they are trying to intimidate you. That is wrong and not playing well with others.

2) This person leaves no room for them to hear a different view, as soon as you try to respond their biblical absolutes will become fingers in ears singing mary had a little lamb repeatedly.

Our salvation isn't up for debate! It is between us and god, not some biblical know it all on a web board. My real answer is to stop debating with them.

[Jules619]

Thank you for your reply....I know I should stop debating with him...quite frankly, there is nothing that he could say that would sway me to his fundamental judgmental side anymore than what I have to say will sway him...he also did the whole, "we should love them all, homosexuals, muderers, drunks, prostitutes"...and that just started it for me...there is just zero tolerance when that kind of idiotic talk starts. That is when I jumped in.....I grew up in the fundamentalist church..I know what kind of crap they pull....how EVERYONE is beneath....it doesn't sit well with me anymore(and certainly never did as a child as well). Thanks again...


Simple, where is the biblical support for this theory? Where in the NT does it say we should start eating things with no fins? Where does it say anything about this theory. It is cute, but not biblically supported.

What is important to note is two keys things about this person's repsonse to you.

1) this person insults you by saying you know nothing about theology. So right from the top they are trying to intimidate you. That is wrong and not playing well with others.

2) This person leaves no room for them to hear a different view, as soon as you try to respond their biblical absolutes will become fingers in ears singing mary had a little lamb repeatedly.

Our salvation isn't up for debate! It is between us and god, not some biblical know it all on a web board. My real answer is to stop debating with them.

[Daniel]

My thought here is serious as well as humorous: Bless the living hell out the people like this. Gets one off the hook right quick. Joe's right. When insults are thrown at one and demands are made...well....there really is nothing to talk about. The person isn't talking to you at that point, but to the scary picture they have in their mind.

[Jules619]

You are right...I start out having that attitude...show them love...but then I just get so mad! I suppose I should stay clear of forums where there is absolutely going to be controversy....but that is easier said than done. I just continue to be appalled of how pompous the fundamentalist is....they can't even get along in their own religions....believe me, I am definitely a recovering Southern Baptist although I NEVER thought they were right in their exclusion and judgements...thanks for your words!(and I love that quote)

[Daniel]

You are right...I start out having that attitude...show them love...but then I just get so mad! I suppose I should stay clear of forums where there is absolutely going to be controversy....but that is easier said than done.

Oh....baby....I hear you loud and clear! Even here, I've had more than a few run-ins. But I hope my learning curve in matters of nonviolence is growing. At least I hope so! One only gets better at it by practice.

My own journey has meant maintaining a spiritual practice and an interest in the writings of those who expouse nonviolence. We all need skillful means- tools- as well as thoughts, which encourage us to act instead of react.

In the end, the one thing I sense myself getting a better handle on is the ability to stand calmly and firmly in my own skin, without apology or need of validation. And that is a good thing. Then there is no need to condemn or fear condemnation.

[Pablo Rafael]

I understand that this is a conversation on a forum like this. The approach I am learning that seems to work for me in these kinds of situations is this:

1. I state my position and give Biblical support for it.

2. This usually leads to a statement, like you received, from someone who claims to argue from the "true" theological position. I then simply point the person to some resources such as the article on this webpage "What the Bible Says". Much more debate gets into a "the Bible says", "no it doesn't" argument. I might make a few more Biblical points not to convince the person but to bring up the point that there are devout Christians who disagree.

3. I make a few follow-up statements that are from personal experience relating the issue to my life and those of people I know. This brings in the social aspects of the situation rather than the Biblical ones.

4. After this I usually leave for good. Dwelling too much on the issue will get me upset. I figure my point has been made.

I try to add a little humor and try not to take myself too seriously. A humble attitude can really temper a person's hostile response. My conversations are generally among my fellow Catholics who have a tendency to be more moderate than a lot of fundamentalists (but not always). In forums there will always be some others who will also come to my side. (or I will help support theirs.) Hostile comments I have reported to the moderators who have removed the offending posts.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[superhippy7890]

I know I probably shouldbn't, but I just love when these arguments come up. I don't know why... Maybe it's some kind of meantal S&M. Anyways, I simply ask what Bible theirusing. I then tell them to learn heberw/aramaic/latin/greek an then come to me.

[Daniel]

I know I probably shouldbn't, but I just love when these arguments come up. I don't know why... Maybe it's some kind of meantal S&M. Anyways, I simply ask what Bible theirusing. I then tell them to learn heberw/aramaic/latin/greek an then come to me.


You wicked young man you............:lol:

[superhippy7890]

:rolleyes:

[Jules619]

I guess the thing I am trying to understand is what exactly he is saying...if he thinks I am so wrong on theology....I mean, this was the same guy that when I asked about what he thought of women ministers, his reply was, "I haven't really read on that"..yet it women in the bible are mentioned to be submissive and quiet...and then he said, but I prefer a male minister. I haven't responded back to him...but I was just like to understand where he thinks he is coming from so that I may combat this type on nonsense the next time it happens...any help?

[Daniel]

I guess the thing I am trying to understand is what exactly he is saying...if he thinks I am so wrong on theology....I mean, this was the same guy that when I asked about what he thought of women ministers, his reply was, "I haven't really read on that"..yet it women in the bible are mentioned to be submissive and quiet...and then he said, but I prefer a male minister. I haven't responded back to him...but I was just like to understand where he thinks he is coming from so that I may combat this type on nonsense the next time it happens...any help?


My I suggest another way to think about this?

You know when you go to someone's house and have a meal? If you've had a really good time, what do you remember? What you ate?

Hardly.

Long after, you will remember the warm feelings and the great time you had with the people that you shared the meal with.

Just so in converations where one is endeavoring to 'combat this type of nonsense'. You will be remembered, not on the content of what you say, but how you say what you say. In that sense, having all the facts are only the half of it.

Let him think you are wrong. Do you really need his validation?

And if you want to know where his is coming from: ask him directly. That shows you are interested in his life- his thoughts- and him- and are not just trying to score points or change his mind. Because you can't. Only he can do that.

[Jules619]

I absolutely understand what you are saying....and really, I do not wish to continue to "debate" with him....and I certainly do not care what his opinion is concerning me...I suppose he has made that quite clear(as I am just as guilty of throwing my distaste for the fundamentalist-and have not succeeded all that well in holding my tongue) I suppose it more about the others that were on this board...those that actually said, "you know, maybe I should rethink things a little bit"....I don't think I am some holy roller that knows everything, but I certainly know that Christ's love, as well as in other spiritualities, does not EXCLUDE. To my surprise, some people on that board had never heard from someone who is actually gay - who is also a Christian...there are those with very open minds and hearts but have been swayed by what they are taught in conservative churches....I guess that is my reasoning that I would like to have a better stand with regard to what he said...so that those that are open do not return to being closed again by his remarks(or rather someone else's remarks in the future-I don't care to talk with him anymore) We have all experienced withstanding people's ignorance where homosexuals are concerned...only to reveal we are gay to them...and see the light pop on and say, "Oh, I didn't know you were gay"....and then amazingly....some attitudes do change....acceptance starts....those are the people that I would hope to reach....instead of the hopeless fundamentalist robot.

[Joe Brummer]

My I suggest another way to think about this?

You know when you go to someone's house and have a meal? If you've had a really good time, what do you remember? What you ate?

Hardly.

Long after, you will remember the warm feelings and the great time you had with the people that you shared the meal with.

Just so in converations where one is endeavoring to 'combat this type of nonsense'. You will be remembered, not on the content of what you say, but how you say what you say. In that sense, having all the facts are only the half of it.

Let him think you are wrong. Do you really need his validation?

And if you want to know where his is coming from: ask him directly. That shows you are interested in his life- his thoughts- and him- and are not just trying to score points or change his mind. Because you can't. Only he can do that.



This is so well said. You should put this on post cards! :)

[Daniel]

This is so well said. You should put this on post cards! :)

:cool:

The thought occurred to me after seeing a print ad for chefs/food.....the line being something like "what you'll really remember is the time you have together..."

They were selling something, but I thought: "That's true!"

Truth in advertising? lol

[Joe Brummer]

Daniel, You silly, modest boy...it wan't the food thing (altough i am always hungry since I stopped smoking).......it was the nonviolence approach to "debate" that I thought was brillant.


Just so in converations where one is endeavoring to 'combat this type of nonsense'. You will be remembered, not on the content of what you say, but how you say what you say. In that sense, having all the facts are only the half of it.

Let him think you are wrong. Do you really need his validation?

And if you want to know where his is coming from: ask him directly. That shows you are interested in his life- his thoughts- and him- and are not just trying to score points or change his mind. Because you can't. Only he can do that.

[Daniel]

Daniel, You silly, modest boy...it wan't the food thing (altough i am always hungry since I stopped smoking).......it was the nonviolence approach to "debate" that I thought was brillant.

Modesty becomes her.......(batting eyelashes)