Hi...

[edgelessdepths]

Hello, my name is Elsa. I'm bi-sexual and didn't actually come out to myself or anyone else till last year. I finally realized that I was attracted to women as well as me after attending a big glbt conference in South Dakota.

More on my life story later. What I was wondering is why, if you're gay, you feel comfortable being a Christian. I myself am an atheist/agnostic, due, in part, to my strong distaste some of the "rules" in the bible as well as an abhorrence for the things god condoned in the OT. Also, because I see no reason to believe in the supernatural.

I realize that there are liberal churches, we have a lebian minister in my campus glbt group, but I must say I don't understand it.

Please understand I am not trying to take away your faith or say that god, if he/she/it exists, doesn't love you. I am just wondering, why Christianity?

[keltic63]

welcome Elsa!

stick around and talk to us. You'll find that many of us are spiritual, but not christian, there are buddhists here, a pagan or 2, we're really quite a diverse bunch.


I would turn your question around though. What about being LGBT should prevent a person from being a christian? God loves us, right? why should that change because I'm gay?

[dsdrane]

Hi Elsa!

I professed agnosticism from the time I was 13 and made a conscious decision not to be confirmed. I'm now 39, so two-thirds of my life.

[Oy.]

But, then, when I least expected it, faith snuck up and grabbed me. There was no active choice to find it; it literally found me. There's no other way to explain it. All of a sudden I just knew, like when you realize you're in love with someone. The conscious choice this time was to say "yes".

With respect to homosexuality, the (barely mentioned) same-sex sexual contact proscribed in the Bible has nothing to do with modern-day sexual orientations and is, therefore to my mind, completely irrelevant.

Regarding your own path, I would simply urge you to live, learn, love and keep asking questions. We're all works in progress. Enjoy the ride.

Peace, David

[Daniel]

Elsa- welcome to Soulforce. Hope you stick around as well.

I like your question: you are a straight shooter (no pun intended!). And to consider what you have asked: why Christianity? Or Buddhism for that matter? Or any other religion?

One doesn't have to get very far to see that most, if not all, of the major religions have their conservative side. But this doesn't mean that conservatism should define everyone else- even those who don't believe in God.

Religious intolerance must be seen for what it is. Even one like Sam Harris, who wrote The End of Faith, recognizes this in his own way. He is someone who, even though he rejects all which, in his view, leads to violent acts (which, for him, includes the dogma that surrounds all religions), still meditates on a cushion- recognizing that there is more to be discovered about the mind and the inner world of experience. It isn't a simple matter of God or nothing.

There is a middle way. And in my view, this is the way of compassion- or if you will- love.

I've been one who has staddled two worlds mentioned above: Christianity and Buddhism. And for me, what I have experienced in the latter has only informed the former for the better. :rolleyes: This investigation has brought to me the realization that, no matter what 'box' one is holding, it is still a 'box'. It's what one does with that box that counts.

[superhippy7890]

I have to say that it is because people belive that Jesus died for their sins. Thats why they are Christians. I'm Jewsih because I belive G-d made covanent with my peoplemany years ago. It all has to do with what you scinerly belive. Oh and HELLO!!!!!!!!1

[edgelessdepths]

Thanks for all of the answers. :)
I guess the reason I don't think I could handle any type of Christianity is mainly because I was raised super conservative and the baptist and non denominational churches I went to left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to go to a wedding last year that was held in a church and even though the ceremony was completely innocuous I shook violently throughout the entire thing and ended up crying for hours in my hotel room. I don't feel comfortable in church.

I realize the bible doesn't actually say much about homosexual relationships, so conservatives are really stretching the whole "it's a sin, blaugh, blaugh, blaugh" thing. I can see taking some parts of the bible and thinking they are good, like love your neighbor etc., but there is so much that I don't agree with in the bible (like Paul and his ideas about women) that I don't really think of it as a moral guide for me. I have more of a "do no unnecessary harm" and "be nice to people" type attitude. However, I don't see anything wrong with taking and believing the nice parts of the bible.

Also, I just don't feel anything, any other something, out there like some people do. I was pagan for a while but it just didn't feel real to me. I felt like I was trying to believe in something just because I was used to it and not because I really did believe.

However, I do meditate some and find it very calming, so I suppose in some ways I still connect.

On to a different subject.

As a bi-sexual person and engaged to be married to a man I sometimes feel invisible and a person in the gay community. Also, I feel like being bi shields me from criticism and anti-gay attacks and I feel guilty about it. It's not like I try and hide anything but it doesn't seem fair that I "get off easy." Does anyone else feel like this?

Also, I have some friends that claim that I'm not really bi because I haven't "done it" with a girl. I find this frustrating, I don't think I should have to be intimate with someone before I can say that I am attracted to them.

Sorry for all the questions but I don't have any close bi friends to talk to.

Thanks everyone for being so friendly and I will stick around :)

[Zerbie]

. I don't feel comfortable in church.


As a bi-sexual person and engaged to be married to a man I sometimes feel invisible and a person in the gay community. Also, I feel like being bi shields me from criticism and anti-gay attacks and I feel guilty about it. It's not like I try and hide anything but it doesn't seem fair that I "get off easy." Does anyone else feel like this?

Also, I have some friends that claim that I'm not really bi because I haven't "done it" with a girl. I find this frustrating, I don't think I should have to be intimate with someone before I can say that I am attracted to them.

Sorry for all the questions but I don't have any close bi friends to talk to.

Thanks everyone for being so friendly and I will stick around :)

I don't feel comfortable in churches either, for the most part. You will rarely see me inside one.

As to the bisexual question, and the heterosexual privilege, you've certainly found a place to encounter like minds. There are a couple of other women here besides me who will relate to you on these points (Lydia and Zimnah).

I am bisexual and very happily married to a wonderful man. Yes, it makes me appear to all intents and purposes 'straight.' I let people assume so if they want, and only correct them if I hear them specifically refer to me as a straight person. In other words, RARELY, because people don't usually voice their assumptions out loud. I am fully aware of receiving "heterosexual privilege." I have to make a conscious decision not to waste my time with guilt, which is a useless way to spend energy that is best spent on constructive things. For me, some of that means a passionate commiment to activism on LGBT issues.

As to you can't be bi if you haven't "done it" with both sexes, that's BS. It's an affectional, orientational question, not a behavioral one. Behavior isn't the same as inner self-perception. Think of all the gay people who marry an opposite sex partner before they ever come out. By your friends' definition, they are all bisexual. But that's just going on behavior. What is inside the heart in those cases is a 100% gay person. And so, no, you don't have to behave according to the inner compass in order to know which way it is pointing.

Don't feel guilty. You are in love. Marry your prince charming. Be thankful you found him.

And welcome to the forum.
:applause:

[Pablo Rafael]

Hi Elsa,

Welcome.

You were asking. Why Christianity?
First of all, I see no conflict with being gay and being a Christian. The organized church over the years has developed a stand against homosexuality, but when looking into the Bible I don't see it. I find it important to realize that church denominations are not the essence of Christianity, but the people of God in a relationship with Him through His Word make up the Church.

Also I don't see "rules" as the main point of being a Christian. I see the grace of God as it is showered down upon us as the main point. Tied to that is the love that we are to show to all of God's people and to all creation around us. For me the main point is not "rules" but love.

It is a shame that to often churches have driven people away, especially gay people. My step-brother is also gay. He grew up in a very conservative, legalistic denomination. He left the church many years ago. I grew up in the Lutheran church and am now in the Catholic church. I love the church and would never think about leaving it. We have our problems, but it is a great joy for me every week.

Please let us know your thoughts. It is good to have you here.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[dsdrane]

:love: Pablo is THE MAN!

[scott snedeker]

Hi Elsa!

What you experienced at the wedding was a form of POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER.

The trauma is the emotional child abuse caused by homophobia at the hands of your church leaders.


In the time in your adolescence when you were discovering your sexual awareness you were being told that your feelings of sexual attraction make you a worthless deviant because you feel them toward the same sex. So to survive you hide this secret and stifle the growth of your emerging identity and learn to hate yourself.

This is psychological child abuse at its worst.

It may be difficult to imagine the miracle of courageously overcoming this self loathing imposed by your past abuse. You may need help to restore your sense that you are a person deserving of happiness, equal worthiness and love. It is a hard fought internal struggle won by myself and many other gay people.

Some say being gay is a choice. They are half right. You can choose to be
true to your nature and experience passion, romance and love, all essential
parts of a balanced normal life. Or you can falsely pretend to be attracted to the opposite sex and live an empty passionless lie.

Acceptance and affirmation of your own NATURE is the foundation of Spirituality.

I too feared Christ and Christianity. But later when I realized that judgemental "Christians" were really mostly people with "small minds driven by fear" (a previous thread by me) I was able to trivialize their hate.

I also experienced a trauma at age six that lead me to believe Christ was going to make me die of my congenital heart disease. Sounds silly now but to a young child it created a terror of christianity the origin of which I came to realize only in the last year!

I'm one of the Pagans by the way. My greatest spiritual ideal is Universal and Unconditional love of self and others. Which also seems to me to be Christ's most genuine message. I believe him to be merely human but a Genius non-the-less of universal and uncondtional love. Christ did not say You are loved but I only distastefully tolerate your nature! That comes from homophobes who are being self-righteous.

Churches sometimes use the attractive power of this ideal as bait so they can then use it to dehumanize gay people for gratification as a compensation for a their own sense of personal inadequacy. The result is often no less devastating than Childhood sexual rape. They see themselves as entitled to this gratification and are now violently objecting it being taken away from them by "The gay agenda":hissy:

I consider love without acceptance to be spiritual poison. "I love you but you are dirty" = rape of your self-esteem! Don't accept it! no matter how strongly you are tempted! Unconditional love without any caveats about your nature is worth waiting for!

I get a sense of unconditional love of my self and others from my lovers, My Reiki Circle, and from Abraham's Art of Allowing (A discipline of emotionally sensitive thought focus) This my spirituality.



Here I have found affirmation......and offer it in return.

There is great love here for you. We are complete through our love for one another and ourselves.
Scotty:cowboy: