What is being Saved exactly?

[superhippy7890]

Is it exlusive to Christianity? I have had experiences like simmilar to those who have claimed to "saved" in Judasism. So what do you guys think?

[frankandcathy]

In my experience, most evanglical Christians define "salvation" based on Paul's statement that if you "believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, you will be saved." I am sure there are other scriptures used as well.

Of course, then you have the whole "lordship" thing meaning: Just because you say that you've experienced the above, does that mean you're saved? I say no. I say there has to be a submission of your will to that of Christ's. I say there has to be a CHANGE in behavior and actions. Not a FORCED change (behavioral modification) but a change RESULTING from the heart change that you've already had.

"Once saved, always saved" doctrine would disagree with me, however. Which, in my opinion, is why we have a lot of "hypocritcal" Christians...meaning a lot of people who walked down an aisle because they were afraid of going to hell, set a prayer, and thought they were done. Their lifestyle never changed or their thoughts about their own sin or whatever.

My two cents.

Thanks.
~C

[keltic63]

In my experience, most evanglical Christians define "salvation" based on Paul's statement that if you "believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, you will be saved." I am sure there are other scriptures used as well.

Of course, then you have the whole "lordship" thing meaning: Just because you say that you've experienced the above, does that mean you're saved? I say no. I say there has to be a submission of your will to that of Christ's. I say there has to be a CHANGE in behavior and actions. Not a FORCED change (behavioral modification) but a change RESULTING from the heart change that you've already had.

"Once saved, always saved" doctrine would disagree with me, however. Which, in my opinion, is why we have a lot of "hypocritcal" Christians...meaning a lot of people who walked down an aisle because they were afraid of going to hell, set a prayer, and thought they were done. Their lifestyle never changed or their thoughts about their own sin or whatever.

My two cents.

Thanks.
~C

oh my. will this turn into an argument about grace? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[pnggrad79]

Superhippy,
My definition of "being saved" is summed up in 2 verses of the New Testament.

1. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

2. "For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and not of yourselves, it is a gift of God. Not of works, that you can boast of." Ephesians 2:8 & 9.


In my view, the Old Testament, with Abraham, Moses, David, etc, they all pointed to the Messiah, embodied by Jesus Christ. Everything in the OT pointed to a time when grace would define God's salvation and not sacrifice as was prominent for the salvation of the OT people. Jesus, by his death on the cross, absolved the need for sacrifice, because he was the ultimate sacrifice. Once and for all, he established himself as the payment for our sin and brought us back into communion with God.

The New Testament is all about grace and the sufficiency of Christ as our Savior.

That pretty much sums up what I believe about salvation.

[Joe Brummer]

Let me complicate matters for a moment. (actually, for fun and learning.....learning is fun)


The original question asked about being saved. Many evangelicals believe you must be saved, even if you believe in Jesus. Many evangelicals do not agree that Catholics are "saved" or "born again".

Do you need to be "saved" or "Born again" or is just a belief in Christ all the bible requires?

[Daniel]

Your question, "Is it exclusive to Christianity" opens up the topic considerably. I think there are a few things to keep in mind here.

The phrase itself, 'being saved', has a particular meaning within modern Christianity as has been noted by Cathy and others. Here's some context on the issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soteriology

My thought here is that we each have what I call numinous experiences, And while we see them through the particular lens of our religious training and upbringing, is what we see/experience similar- if not identical- as what those in other faiths experience? And what if one has no religious upbringing at all and has numinous experiences, what does that mean?

There have been centuries of argument about that, which bring up the many other questions like:

What is nature of reality? Are we animals having divine thoughts, or divine beings having a human experience? Is this 'thing' I've just experienced (salvation) all in my head? The product of mere synaptic patterns in the brain? How do I know what I think I know? What is knowing?

It may seem like wading into quicksand, but I think doubt and questions are par for the course. It's the people who have all the answers (and insist on them) that give me the willies.

[NathanATX]

"Saved" is a great movie... :) I just watched it again last night.

Many Christians believe in a literal hell... meaning a lake of fire where all unsaved will burn for eternity. All humanity was doomed to be "unsaved" when Adam & Eve sinned against God by eating the apple from the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. Jesus, the very Son of God and being of God, came to Earth to give His life as a blood sacrifice to pay the price for the forgiveness of sin, thereby allowing people the chance to be saved from hell. But... only those who pray the sinners prayer, get baptized, confess their sins, go to church, convert others, abstain from "evil & wickedness," (fill in denominational requirements here) etc., etc., will be "true Christians" and be able to go to heaven instead of Hell.

I prefer to think about being SAVED from a life of not being confident of God's goodness and love for me. Being SAVED from a life of fear, hate & self-destruction.

I certainly don't believe a loving God would send His kids to burn in eternity for temporary sins.

[andrewlittle]

As much as it offends my sensibilities to agree with him publicly, I concur with David's concept of what it MEANS to be saved.
It means to have everything that separates us from God removed (like sin and death) so that we are brought close to G-d again forever.
As you may have noticed, however, people tend to answer this question by telling you the MEANS by which they believe someone is saved. This is entirely understandable in my mind, given the wide variety of belief, but may not be helpful to YOU in finding an answer.

As you can tell, there is a variance even within Christian theology and doctrine as to the MEANS of salvation. If it was a short, easy answer, the subject would not have it's own classification in theology - soteriology. Then, when you add non-Christian perspectives, the issue becomes much broader yet.

So, would you entertain a discussion on what it is that you, as a Jew, believe you are to be saved from?
How do you view humanity's separation with G-d, if you have a concept of that in the first place?
What experiences have you had that seem similar to some of those experiences described by others?

As I've mentioned before, I believe G-d cut a covenant with the Jews that was not superceded by the covenant with all humanity. G-d did not break one promise in order to make another. So, while I believe strongly in the new covenant as it extends to me, I do not believe G-d abandoned the first that he made with your ancestors.

That being said, I would love the opportunity to dialogue about the differences and similarities of belief from each prespective. I will try to minimize my "universalizing" of my own doctrine and dogma in the process.

How about it? Wanna play?

[superhippy7890]

Yes I belive G-ds covanent with the Jews cannot be broken by anything. I was just wondering how people would describe it in your own terms

[frankandcathy]

a little weird...I mean about Jewish people being saved.

I've been reading Romans a lot lately and Paul seems to say two totally different things about it. In one spot, he seems ADAMANT that Jews will be saved, "I don't want you to be ignorant about this." In other spots, he seems to say they're not unless they accept Christ.

Anyway, these are all good thoughts. Good point about not "how" but "what." I think the "how" is intertwined with the "what." It's like faith and works. Two sides of the same coin. I make a decision one time ("how) that could affect my life not at all, a little, or a lot. It is the testing of that decision and my reaction to it's calling that determines the "what" maybe.

And while we're on the subject (kind of)...Paul said a lot of weird stuff. And some stuff that I just read and think, "WHAT?"

I was asking the Lord last night why He couldn't throw a book of the Bible in written by a mother to other mothers/wives to HELP ME OUT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! But then I realized that a lot of that "love others, perservere, etc." stuff applies to moms/wives too! :)

~C

[kara speltz]

Is it exlusive to Christianity? I have had experiences like simmilar to those who have claimed to "saved" in Judasism. So what do you guys think?

I'm a cradle Catholic who left the Church for 20 years and then returned some 20 years ago. I find this whole thing about "saved," truly odd, and it seems to me to focus our attention more on keeping an angry God appeased, rather than spending our lives trying to serve the God we love.

Remember when you first "fell in love"? Remember how there wasn't enough you could do to make that loved one happy. Making them happy, made us happy. I think this is what should be the focus of our lives. Serving God in one another. I truly believe that you can't pursue happiness - it is a result of that deep connection of love we feel with God and with one another.

The other problem I have with the whole "saved," ideology is that I find it most often is a way of judging others and feeling superior. Given that each of us falls short of the mark on a consistent basis, I would expect, it seems to me the only person we are capable of judging is ourselves. And if we need to compare our lives with someone else, you can bet we're doing something wrong.

Kara

[Daniel]

Kara- you've put your finger on why my original post was worded as it was.

I spent my adolesence as a pentacostal, where 'being saved' was part of the parlance of being a christian. For them, 'being saved' separated the wheat from the chaff. I do not deny that the experience I had wasn't important- it was. I simply have a different understanding of that experience now, which is why I couched that first post in the terms I did.

If we are saved from anything, I hope it is our thoughts which limit ourselves and others.

[revcobb]

How much blood and ink have been spilled trying to be right about salvation! How many have lost themselves trying to save others...and lost others to save themselves.

I'm new here but willing to dive in. The question's enormous. I'm less inclined to want to define salvation narrowly when there's so much to be saved from: war, oppression, prejudice, racism, sexism and heterosexism, economic injustice, hunger, slavery, fear, exploitation, and death. The list goes on. It gets personal, too: alienation, fear, doubt, despair, emptiness, grief...

Salvation may be Moses leading the people of Israel out of Egypt, the return from exile, the overthrow of Antiochus Epiphanes, the early Christian martyrs refusing to serve in Rome's army, or the establishment of Zion. Salvation doesn't always mean you get out alive. But it does seem, in every instance, to mean being faithful and responding well despite all the world throws at you.

We can arague over whether anyone can save themselves. I suspect we can't, but while it requires help from God, we also have some role in standing up against injustice and oppression. Gives life meaning, I think.

But salvation isn't just salvation from. It's salvation for. Jesus set the standard for salvation pretty high in his first sermon in Luke, when he quoted Isaiah: "he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to bring release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." He's talking about his call from God. He's claimed his life's mission, his purpose, his raison d'etre. And it's setting people free, lifting them up.

Maybe that's all I'm saying: to be saved is to be set free to carry out God's purpose for your life. The challenge is figuring out that purpose. Odds are good it has to do with making someone else's life better.

[scott snedeker]

From a Pagan perspective I see being saved as the removal of the barriers to love of self and others which allows connection to our true nature of love = God.

This is my interpretation of Christ's message: Genuine universal and unconditional love of every human being. His genius was to see past these barriers in everyone.

I too see Chirst as merely a Human being Oh! but what a human being he was!!!

His genius was to feel love toward everyone, and in one of history's most brutal eras!

I am "saved" meaning connecting to my love of self and others over and over again as I grow and heal from my psycholgical and spiritual injuries.

So yes! If a Pagan can be saved, so can a Jew or any human.

Conformity to a Metaphysical belief is not required!!!

Whether the path is devotional (common to many christians I observe) or by meditation (my current favorites are Reiki and Abraham's Art of Allowing) or any other path, Connection to Universal Unconditional Love is Available to any who allow it in!

Love and afffirmation,

Scotty:cowboy:

[superhippy7890]

I agree with your answer scott. The thing is that it is a major question of being saved from what?

[Daniel]

We have to be able to see the good (God) in ourselves as well as others. One first has compassion for one's own suffering and ignorance and then that of others. Yes- this is a Buddhistic idea, but a good one nevertheless.

The cowardly lion finds that he had courage all along, the tin-man his heart, and the scarecrow a brain.

Dorothy gets home and finds she never had to leave in the first place.

That's salvation.

[superhippy7890]

I thought Dorthy wanted a canker sore, but ebded up having one all along :lol:

[scott snedeker]

I agree with your answer scott. The thing is that it is a major question of being saved from what?

From self-loathing, joylessness, Lack of unconditional love of self. Many of us older gays have these sequalae of emotional injury from a world that was universally homophobic when we were discovering our sexual awareness. Affirmation and reconnection to our sense of entitlement to joy is sometimes difficult. I can compensate for the emotional barriers placed by my past pschological abuse with spiritual healing. For me Reiki, listening to Abraham, And lovemaking are they ways I do this.

By coming out so early in life I think you will escape the emotional injury from the psychological abuse from homophobia. Thank God There is the beginning of the end of it. You project a sense of entitlement to joy equal to anyone. Never let that be taken from you!

[superhippy7890]

ahh i see. I am now wondering why when some people get saved they are so pompus?

[zimnah]

I read the replies to your post, and I think you got quite a wide variety. I believe the concept of being "saved" differs from person to person, and that those who believe themselves to be saved from a fate worse than death (the Christian concept of Hell) often wish to celebrate their salvation, their new connection with G-d and Jesus.
It's a bit different with us, though. I think the closest we can come to that feeling is that one magical moment when something significant from the Shemoneh Esreh suddenly jumps out during silent repetition and changes how we view an aspect of our lives or the world or our surroundings or even someone with whom we've had dealings with. Because we don't believe, as a rule, that G-d interacts directly with us, but rather supports us and loves us as we stretch ourselves to the true limits of His gift of free will (how's that for a run-on sentence??), it is difficult for us to wrap our brains around the concept of constant peril that Christians seem to feel that they might die and be cast into the fiery pits of Hell before they have a chance to connect one-on-one with G-d through Jesus. Our salvation comes through Torah, tzedakah and acts of lovingkindness. It's a slow, plodding and cumulative process in which we realize that we only have this one chance during our lifetime on earth to get it right.
I'm guessing I've gotten a few things wrong vis a vis the Christian view, so I welcome any corrections :pray:
I hope that helps.
--Dawn:love: :love:

[superhippy7890]

yay the post is alive!