A Time To Embrace -- New Book

[davidcom]

Hey folks,

My brother sent me "A Time To Embrace: Same-Gender Relationships in Religion, Law, and Politics" by William Stacy Johnson for my birthday. Johnson is a straight guy, a professor of Systematic Theology at Princeton Theological seminary, and a member of the "Peace, Unity, and Purity Task Force of the PC(USA) (the Presbyterian church).

So far I have just skimmed the book to see the structure of his whole argument and have plowed through the first couple chapters. So far I am VERY impressed with his scholarship and his careful arguments. I would love to hear what others think of it. Especially you, Andrew, this stuff is right up your alley. Have you read it?

Dave

[andrewlittle]

But that is about to change. Thanks for the heads up, Daniel.

The Task Force was, in some ways, a definite disappointment. In others, however, it MAY represent a distinct move forward, for the PC(USA), by at least moving back towards the historical understanding that each presbytery be empowered to determine what beliefs are "essential" and which are "important" but not binding. Depending on the level of backlash that continues to develop, we may be a step closer towards local conscience in ordaining LGBT pastors and elders.

[andrewlittle]

Why is it I get you two mixed up so often? Anyway, Darian, thanks for the information on the book. Hopefully, soon we'll be able to talk about the book. Thanks again, Darrell.

[Daniel]

That's ok Andrew. I get called DAVID all the time. Really. It's those damned biblical names! They blur into one another.

That said- I would be honored to be mistaken for our own dear DAVID. Speaking of which, I don't mean to pry DAVID (well....yes I do actually), but your brother must either know of your situation or suspect, yes? Or am I reading between the lines here way too much?

Guess I'm gonna have to get this book.

Yours,

Derwood

(that makes you, Andrew, Agnes Moorehead!)

[andrewlittle]

... but I don't dress near as tacky.

[Daniel]

... but I don't dress near as tacky.


I'm sure we can find you the right heels and a suitable dress....let me see what I've got in my closet!

You can, however, float in the air, at least on these pages. ;)

[scott snedeker]

my nose is twitching!:eek:

---Samantha...uuuh Scotty:D

[Daniel]

Oh David! I would never be one to come down on your family, and I am so glad you have the support of you brother and sister, but to hear that this-

They made it clear when we married that if I ever got divorced I would be looking for a new family. What can I say?

- makes me sigh deeply.

I would hope, should you choose to be out in a a greater way, that your family could embrace you both. And the partner/husband/lover/boyfriend you would eventually meet. ;)

Besides- it rings true with the title of this thread.

Sam! Samantha! Come back here and (poof!).......oh....it's you Sabrina!

[Daniel]

If I did it in a way that was faithful to and respectful of Carol... they would. If I hurt her there would be hell to pay.

Ah.......gotcha......you'd have to the the good not the naughty witch. That makes me feel better. If you show half the humor and good will you do here, I have no doubt that you would handle yourself like a gentlemen.

Back to topic: How's the book coming?

[novaseeker]

The book is excellent, really. It's a very serious, thorough examination of the issue from the theological and legal perspectives by a very serious theologian and lawyer. Well worth reading.

[u-dog]

Here is Johnson's typology of Christian responses to GLBT people:

He identifies three non-affirming responses. Three affirming and welcoming responses. and one response that he characterizes as Welcoming, affirming, and ordering. he claims that last response (consecrationist) as his own and commends it as the most healing for glbt people, their sexuality, and their relationships, as well as the most healing for the church. It allows the full welcome, inclusion, and affirmation of gay people while at the same time maintaining the church's traditional and historic values of "sexuality within ordered and covenantal relationships. Keep in mind that Johnson's target audience are people within the mainline protestant churches. He evaluates and summerizes each position under the three rubrics of "Creation" "reconciliation", and "redemption"

Prohibition
Creation: SSA and behavior =perversion
Reconciliation: Repent of gay identity: church prohibits SSA and behavior
Redemption: Return to true hetero nature

Toleration
Creation: Same gender orientation a tragic burden
Reconciliation: Repent gay choices welcoming of persons, non-affirming of acts
Redemption: Stoic acceptance of ones tragic fate through abstinence

Accommodation
Creation: Same-gender desire=tragic burden, but open to traces of grace
Reconciliation: gay and lesbian relationships are disobdedient in form but may be obedient in substance, if monogamous
Redemption: same-sex partnerships are better than promiscuity (lesser of evils)


Legitimation
Creation: same gender desire=like all other sinful conditions
Reconciliation: Focus on ordination. Church repents of singling out gay sins
Redemption: create a just world where differences don’t make a difference

Celebration
Creation: being gay is a fact of “natural” life
Reconciliation: GLBT need to reconcile to the goodness of their sexuality
Redemption: Live into one’s sexual orientation as God’s good gift.

Liberation
Creation: sexuality is a social construction: a fact of “nurtured” life
Reconciliation: Challenge binary gender categories (male-female)
Redemption: Affirm the complexity of gender choices

Consecration
Creation: all Sexual orientations not condemned, but ambiguous. Need to be rightly ordered to be "good"
Reconciliation: Sin does not reside either in orientation or behavior but in whether one’s life is rightly ordered. Relationships are a means of grace.
Redemption: sexuality is to be consecrated through an exlusive, committed covenant, blessed by the Church.

[andrewlittle]

I read some reviews while ordering my copy of the book. I looked locally but, if it doesn't come with a free set of crayons, you can't buy a decent book around here.

A couple of things I read mentioned that he did a very good job of describing the short-comings of offering second-class "civil unions" as well.

So, what did you think from your perspective?

[scott snedeker]

Here is Johnson's typology of Christian responses to GLBT people:

He identifies three non-affirming responses. Three affirming and welcoming responses. and one response that he characterizes as Welcoming, affirming, and ordering. he claims that last response (consecrationist) as his own and commends it as the most healing for glbt people, their sexuality, and their relationships, as well as the most healing for the church. It allows the full welcome, inclusion, and affirmation of gay people while at the same time maintaining the church's traditional and historic values of "sexuality within ordered and covenantal relationships. Keep in mind that Johnson's target audience are people within the mainline protestant churches. He evaluates and summerizes each position under the three rubrics of "Creation" "reconciliation", and "redemption"

Prohibition
Creation: SSA and behavior =perversion
Reconciliation: Repent of gay identity: church prohibits SSA and behavior
Redemption: Return to true hetero nature

Toleration
Creation: Same gender orientation a tragic burden
Reconciliation: Repent gay choices welcoming of persons, non-affirming of acts
Redemption: Stoic acceptance of ones tragic fate through abstinence

Accommodation
Creation: Same-gender desire=tragic burden, but open to traces of grace
Reconciliation: gay and lesbian relationships are disobdedient in form but may be obedient in substance, if monogamous
Redemption: same-sex partnerships are better than promiscuity (lesser of evils)


Legitimation
Creation: same gender desire=like all other sinful conditions
Reconciliation: Focus on ordination. Church repents of singling out gay sins
Redemption: create a just world where differences don’t make a difference

Celebration
Creation: being gay is a fact of “natural” life
Reconciliation: GLBT need to reconcile to the goodness of their sexuality
Redemption: Live into one’s sexual orientation as God’s good gift.

Liberation
Creation: sexuality is a social construction: a fact of “nurtured” life
Reconciliation: Challenge binary gender categories (male-female)
Redemption: Affirm the complexity of gender choices

Consecration
Creation: all Sexual orientations not condemned, but ambiguous. Need to be rightly ordered to be "good"
Reconciliation: Sin does not reside either in orientation or behavior but in whether one’s life is rightly ordered. Relationships are a means of grace.
Redemption: sexuality is to be consecrated through an exlusive, committed covenant, blessed by the Church.

Another path that leads closer to undconditional love of self and others that connects with christians who were pushed off this path by homophobia. I think this can be a big part of the journey. It sounds like it reaches.

I believe there is further to go. The last step still requires outside approval by a church and only affirms monogamy. I believe these are steps to overcome also. But then I'm a pagan after all and believe that spirituality comes out of discovery of one's nature and then connecting with it.

Accurate metaphysics is not my priority. Love of self and others is. I am a healer. whatever works the best, feels best is best.