Pride: All in a Word

[BronzDragon]

» Thom says: ☛ It seems the greatest cornerstone of our argument against the charge of Sodomy is found in Ezekiel.«As I live» — declares the Lord יהוה — «your sister Sodom and her daughters did not do what you and your daughters did. Only this was the sin of your sister Sodom: Arrogance! She and her daughters had plenty of bread and untroubled tranquility; yet she did not support the poor and the needy. In her haughtiness, they committed abomination before Me; and so I removed them, as you saw.
Ezekiel 16:48-49

» Thom says: ☛ Being the hermetically sealed intellect that I am, I would ask this group their opinion of something.

I see the word pride in various flavors. It is like the sun at midday doing what she does, and doing it well, and taking great joy in what she is doing. I see it as the peacock glorifying in his train because he took so much time to make it and will no fall one inch short of presenting it in all his wonder. I see it as the architect who has just finished the most wonderful work of his life, and being glad that it is as well done as it is (even if tomorrow he feels he could tweak the design a little).

In this reference, I am thinking the word I’ve translated as Arrogance could also be: Self-righteous, self-deceitful. I would also pose false-humility would fall into the same sin, just dressed a little differently.

Again, I look forward to this group’s discussion on this word. :love:

[andrewlittle]

I see the word pride in various flavors. It is like the sun at midday doing what she does, and doing it well, and taking great joy in what she is doing. I see it as the peacock glorifying in his train because he took so much time to make it and will no fall one inch short of presenting it in all his wonder. I see it as the architect who has just finished the most wonderful work of his life, and being glad that it is as well done as it is (even if tomorrow he feels he could tweak the design a little).

In this reference, I am thinking the word I’ve translated as Arrogance could also be: Self-righteous, self-deceitful. I would also pose false-humility would fall into the same sin, just dressed a little differently.

Again, I look forward to this group’s discussion on this word. :love:

I could possibly nitpick some of the words you translated, but it would just really be nitpicking, because I would still agree with the essence of what you say. So, to your thoughts on pride.

There are primarily three Hebrew words that are commonly translated as "pride" - gabah, ga'ah (closely related) and mahmad.

In line with your thoughts on "pride", mahmad means literally "thing that is pleasant" (pride-positive). ga'ah means haughtiness (pride-negative), and gabah means exultation (pride- very negative, as in self-exultation). Since all are translated as "pride", this definitely undermines the instances were pride has a positive meaning.

Your translation of "arrogance" for ga'on (sing masc absolute form of ga'ah) is very appropriate - if anything possibly even a little short of self-exultation.

The Hebrew scriptures certainly reflect the flavors of "pride" in ways that are unfortunately lost in the English, just as the passages you cited reflect the true sins of Sodom in ways that are lost on those who want to stick to the King James Version's errors in interpreting those sins to be homosexuality.

[kara speltz]

Whenever there is a discussion about pride, I'm reminded of a time at my parish when we were just beginning to celebrate gay pride Masses in June. My pastor felt we shouldn't call it gay pride because, he said, "pride is one of the 7 deadly sins." When I mentioned that to a black lesbian friend of mine, she responded, "pride is only a sin for straight white men, for the rest of us it is a necessity." I cracked up. :laughing:

[marutidas]

For pride from a Hindu stand point, pride=ego, Doing only for ones self. The true test is to be empty of yourself. To live for others. Since hinduism relies mainly on stories to perve its meaning, I cant point to any story that you haven't read. The best example I can give is Hanuman.

He is a servant deity of Ram, he did not do out of glory for himself or thought of reward, he only did out of love of Ram.

If you were to call people who are very materialistic and selfish, sodomites, then yes there would be many sodomites in the world not just in the gay community, but in any community.

Pride in community is different, Gay Pride or the Million Man march, forming a community is the first step out of powerlessness, poeple can come together and find strength and heal. In the thirty years of gay pride, we have made great stride from being labled Criminals to being to having man rights we now take for granted, and we still have a long way to go. And not to mention the hard fought road of Blacks in this country and still are not treated as full equals yet. Katrina opened up our eyes to the still present racial inequality in this country. This kind of Pride is to point out the injustice we still suffer. This kind of pride is not just for one's self but for the others suffer with you.

~~~Maruti Das:flower:

[Emproph]

Whenever there is a discussion about pride, I'm reminded of a time at my parish when we were just beginning to celebrate gay pride Masses in June. My pastor felt we shouldn't call it gay pride because, he said, "pride is one of the 7 deadly sins." When I mentioned that to a black lesbian friend of mine, she responded, "pride is only a sin for straight white men, for the rest of us it is a necessity." I cracked up. :laughing:

In one sentence that quote encapsulates the explanation of the difference between "sin" pride and "self-esteem" pride – as Maritudas so eloquently articulated.

I hope you don't mind kara, I thought it worthy of the quote thread (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?p=20218#post20218).