Sodom is still dying

[andrewlittle]

Two gay men and two lesbian women came to Sodom in the evening as Rev Lot was communing with some local folk downtown. When Rev Lot saw them, she rose to meet them and extended her hands, because she saw, in the faces of these people, the image of God – the very tired and rejected faces of Christ.

She said, “Please, my friends, come with me to my parsonage. You can shower and sleep. Then, tomorrow, you can come to church service before you continue your journey.”
They answered, “No, we will spend the night at the hotel on the square.”

But Rev Lot urged them to accept her hospitality, being concerned about their safety. Rev Lot was so persistent that the four changed their plans and accompanied her to the parsonage. She prepared a sumptuous dinner for them, which they gladly ate. The next morning the guests went to the church, where Rev Lot invited them to partake in the Lord’s Supper. Overjoyed at such an affirming welcome, they stood hand in hand with their lovers to take communion.

Several in the congregation were incensed at the sight of two men and two women holding hands as they moved down the line for communion. They started to vehemently complain to Rev Lot, insisting that they be barred not only from communion, but also the church. They called them all kinds of vile names, and insisted that such unrepentant sinners should not be allowed to worship with decent Christians.

Rev Lot looked around in appeal, and two people got up in defiance of the unruly church-goers.
The first said, “Look, I’m a sinner. You’ve embraced me, even though, to my shame, I have at times beaten my wife and children, and I have swindled people out of money.”
The other said, “Look, I am a sinner also. I drink too much, and gamble away my family’s welfare. You don’t throw me out into the street.”
Rev Lot looked at the crowd, and then to the two men, and said, “Yes, we’re all sinners here. But these folks’ sin isn’t their sexuality – their sin is just like our own. We’re all sinners, one way or the other, but these people aren’t sinning when they love each other – only when they don’t love others. Just like us, right here, right now. I beg you, please don’t be so arrogant and unloving.”

But the angry congregation members dismissed Rev Lot. They said to each other, “Who is she to judge us? She’s not really one of us. She may be our minister, but she’s an outsider just the same. We’ll deal with her later.”
Then the guests spoke to Rev Lot saying, “We’ll just leave. Thank you, but these people don’t understand the love of God any more than the thousands of other churches that reject us. Why are you here? Shouldn’t you be somewhere that appreciates both God and you?”

Then they left.
Rev Lot packed up her children and possessions and left after them, seeking a place where God’s children would be loved as God intended. Rev Lot’s husband would have gone with them, but he had a successful business and didn’t want to loose his wealth. He stayed and became just like the Sodomites.

For years the story of Sodom was told at the denominational meetings, but the story became twisted. They recognized the brokenness of the Sodom church, but decided that the problem was the presence of GLBT people. They even decided that Rev Lot herself must have been lesbian. Over and over, the story was recited how gays and lesbians ruined the Sodom church, and the denomination made rules to keep these deviants from their doors.
The denomination, just like the church, gradually became smaller and smaller, until there were only empty buildings where there once were churches. Other denominations pointed to the now defunct Church of the Holier Than Thou, and continued to blame the lesbians and gays.

God just wept, as yet other churches made decisions that would ensure their eventual death.

[kara speltz]

The denomination, just like the church, gradually became smaller and smaller, until there were only empty buildings where there once were churches. Other denominations pointed to the now defunct Church of the Holier Than Thou, and continued to blame the lesbians and gays.

God just wept, as yet other churches made decisions that would ensure their eventual death.

Dear Andrew: Oh, I just love that variation on the old myth of Sodom. Did you write it? The last line reminded me of a variation on the creation story.

It starts out the same, with Adam and Eve being told not to eat of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and they're going ahead and doing it. Where it varies, goes like this...... "In the evening when God looked for Adam and Eve to join him in his daily sunset walk, he couldn't find them. He called to them and they answered from behind a bush, telling them they were afraid to come out because they were naked. God sighed and asked who told them and asked if they had eaten from the tree. When they said yes, God cried and cried and said to them. I wanted you to know me with your hearts, but now that you have eaten from the tree of knowledge all you can do is know me with your head. And God broke out into deep sobs, crying huge tears, that flooded the Garden of Eden, sending Adam and Eve into the world."

I don't recall where I first heard this beautiful version, but it always resonated with me in the way I personally comprehend God.

I think it may have come out of a Jewish Midrash. If you've never experienced midrash, it's amazing, because they look at the stories and ask all sorts of questions, about who is there, and who is missing and what those who are missing might bring to the story. It's an exciting way of exploring the bible, that I highly recommend.

But again, Andrew I resonated so deeply with your variation and appreciate so much what you bring to this forum.

Kara

[TigerXero]

Those are very interesting stories.

[BruceChris]

With so much metaphor, or symbolism, it makes my head spin. I just copied it, and sent it to our two pastors, with proper creditation. Say, where did you get it?

Here's one for ya: One minister to another: " One of those dern ho-mo-SEX-u-als tried to tell ME that the sin of Sodom was inhospitality. What nonsense! Never ever been near a seminary, whaddya bet. Well let me tell YOU, I sent HIM packing!"

When it comes to creative venting, I'm much more into one liners.

Much sorrow, Bruce Chris

[andrewlittle]

Bruce, and Kara also, asked where it came from.
With so much metaphor, or symbolism, it makes my head spin. I just copied it, and sent it to our two pastors, with proper creditation. Say, where did you get it?

I wrote it this morning - I was feeling frustrated after a discussion with someone here in Iowa. I just wanted to vent creatively.

[Daniel]

Andrew- I hope you vent more often! What a wonderful take on an old story we all know too well. Seeing with new eyes is...well...everything.

[tpdncr4christ]

espeacially Biblical ones. tons of people would want to read them

[Jennifer5]

:applause: I like this... a lot! :award:

[RainbowL'elly]

if that's your creative venting skills in action, i want to read more- so vent more often, please? ;)

really, the other folks are right- you've got skill and we're just the start of a captive audience.

i am going to pass this on to my family, if you don't mind...they would find this very very interesting.

[pnggrad79]

Andrew,
Superbly done, my friend. Excellent creativity and analyses of an ongoing problem. You have highlighted a pervasive phenomenon in the church today and it is their definition of what a Christian is, and if you have a gambling problem, or drinking problem, or a host of any other problem or you are glbt, you can't possibly be one. That is the most haunting reason the evangelical church is dying and the reason so many pastors are preaching ambiguous, lightweight sermons in order to keep their congregations. The reason churches like Lakewood are so successful is that Joel Osteen spouts off plastic Christianity and that is what the crowd wants. They can't handle anything too meaty.
The Church has beat up so many people and shut their doors on the very people Christ would have embraced, and so people just don't want to go where they are going to face judgment and condemnation. We don't need fire and brimstone, and we don't need plastic Christianity either. What we need is basic Christian love-the kind that Jesus had. "For God SO loved the world, that WHOSOEVER ( no one is excluded) believes in Him, shall NOT perish, but HAVE everlasting life." John 3:16.:love:

[superhippy7890]

Wow Andrew that was great! You have such a great poetic soul! In fact i that the story could be expanded!

[u-dog]

Ok ... so he's talented and smart. So what? he's still homely and his head is already big enough that he needs a shoehorn to put his hat on!



(:love: ) love you andy!!

[andrewlittle]

I do! Everyone needs a heckler in the back row. Thank you all for your kind words. You too, Dave. ;) :D

By the way, Dave, just keep thinking about that big, red, sweet cake with massive amounts of frosting. Hmmm. Oh, I'm sorry - did I read somewhere you were on a diet?

[TigerXero]

The only thing I don't like about the Sodom story is that it makes it sound like the homosexuals are the sinners IN THAT when they come other people defend them by saying that they have sinned AS WELL. However, the minister points out the sin isn't their sexuality or love. I just think he says it too late (and doesn't justify such a stance for people who think it is a sin). I guess the only reason I thought that is because I was thinking of posting that on my myspace page, but because it doesn't give justification, I didn't. It IS a very encouraging message to we who believe (know?) that the Bible/God doesn't condemn us. Sorry to be critical, but it was just something I thought .

[TigerXero]

The only thing I don't like about the Sodom story is that it makes it sound like the homosexuals are the sinners IN THAT when they come other people defend them by saying that they have sinned AS WELL. However, the minister points out the sin isn't their sexuality or love. I just think he says it too late (and doesn't justify such a stance for people who think it is a sin). I guess the only reason I thought that is because I was thinking of posting it on my myspace page, but because it doesn't give justification, I didn't. It IS a very encouraging message to we who believe (know?) that the Bible/God doesn't condemn us.

[andrewlittle]

The reason I wrote it that way was because that is how it normally plays out in liberal churches - middle of the road people look at the sexuality as a sin, just not a bigger sin than their own. That's why I had Rev Lot say what she said in response.

I was troubled with that part myself, but it sounded and felt less authentic the other way - too smooth or something. Perhaps if I made Rev Lot's response to that part stronger or vehement, made it stand out clearer, it would work better.

Thanks for the critical reading (critical as in thoughtful).

[BruceChris]

Many of you have such beautiful pictures! And andrew, you are such an accomplished sinner! I'm impressed. :eek: :confused: :lol: :lol:

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[andrewlittle]

Many of you have such beautiful pictures! And andrew, you are such an accomplished sinner! I'm impressed. :eek: :confused: :lol: :lol:

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

You are too easily impressed, Brucie, my lad. I just hit the surface with my description on my profile. The rest would make your hair curl. I like to think of it as a colorful life on the way to maturity. With any luck maturity will remain a distant goal. (Dave, if you're reading this and getting ready to comment - can it! No-one's interested in your depraved outlook on my personality. Right, Bruce?)

But, now that I am qualified to be holier than thou, I want to discuss the kind of things that seem to impress you, Bruce. You like off-color humor. Hmmm. You are impressed with old geezers who've have sinned a lot. Hmmm. Hmmm.

I think, Bruce, you are a latent dirty old man. A prevert - that's what you are - a prevert. Good for you. :applause: :applause: :applause:

Excuse me, I'm getting visuals again. I'll be right back.

[u-dog]

:x :x :x :x :x :x :x

[BruceChris]

I love ANY perverted point of view, as long as there's a sense of humor behind it. And there is no doubt, that both of us are charter members of the O.F.C. (That's Old Fart's Club)

Getting visuals again? All of my friends at the sanatorium assure me that a good, well made aluminum foil hat will prevent the little green men from Roswell from doing THAT.

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

First I was a prevert, then for a long time, I was a pervert, but now that I've finally arrived, I am a PROVERT!

U-dog, I think he's asking us to GANG UP on him

I suspect that you just may underestimate me. I'll have to work on that.


Until then, Bruce Chris

[u-dog]

Two against one is vaguely unfair but I'm not above doing it. but since this is a battle of wits, we would be talking two against 1/2 and that doesn't even sound like fun anymore.:D

[NathanATX]

"Bring the Love"

Banter and joking around is great. Just keep these two things in mind: Be conscious of how others might read your words. Be sure the ones you're joking with know you love them.

Peace,
Nate

[NathanATX]

Bruce, and Kara also, asked where it came from.


I wrote it this morning - I was feeling frustrated after a discussion with someone here in Iowa. I just wanted to vent creatively.

I agree, this was very good.

[u-dog]

Andy knows THAT we love him. God alone knows why ;)

But we'll be careful. :love:

Nate, you remind me of my wife. When our kids were little and they would be wrestling around the family room, she would stick her head in the door and ask "Is this game still fun for EVERYONE?"

[andrewlittle]

Andy knows THAT we love him. God alone knows why ;)

But we'll be careful. :love:

Nate, you remind me of my wife. When our kids were little and they would be wrestling around the family room, she would stick her head in the door and ask "Is this game still fun for EVERYONE?"

Yes, it is. At least for me.

To set the record straight - oops, sorry - to make sure everyone else knows, I really do appreciate the banter and joking around. Please be aware that the participants in this battle of "wits" are engaging in what we see as fun and, oddly enough, uplifting.

As to the battle of wits - quite the misnomer considering we're talking about Dave and Bruce - bring it on, big boys. I'll stack my half-wit against the collective sum of your whits anytime.

And, Nate - thank you. It's nice to be defended, even when I don't see the need for the defense. That was very kind of you.

[BruceChris]

Obviously, with your spelling ability alone, or the lack thereof, we will *wittle* you down to size in no time.

P&L, BC

[BruceChris]

I thought that I had just posted a clarification, a minor apology perhaps, and a couple of wisecracks, but it seems to have dissappeared. I DO hate to be forced out of context, in ways beyond my control.

P&L, BC

[BruceChris]

You keep complaining about having frustrating conversations with someone in Iowa, and I keep telling people to move to Minnesota, where all of the Real People are. Is there a message here?

P&L, BC