KJV Luke 17:34-36

[baref]

I think the combined wisdom of the world can be simplified. Dont judge others and dont judge yourself. In not judging others I find that I can forgive myself for the human similarities that I bear to others and in not judging myself I find that I can muster the love that I would like to give other to encourage them not to judge either. I grew up with a mom that basically said on a daily basis that the worst thing you could do to your parent was be gay or kill yourself. Well to late for the first one... I have done much study and soul searching. I have had God as part of my life by choice (my parents did not go to church) ever since I can remember. In these forums I always like to through out KJV Luke 17:34-36. I get different reactions from everyone that I meet on those versus. They are not even included in some bibles. There is a stepped revelation in those versus. When you read it literally you get a different picture than when you read it in the text of the entire chapter or the entire book. For years it was my saving grace in understanding that what is being done now was done before and yet we survive. That you can never judge or understand Gods choices in who is right or wrong. And, that human behavior is human behavior.

Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this community. Feel free to ask anything, I am pretty much an open book.

daniel

[Zerbie]

Welcome Daniel.

Sorry you grew up hearing such a sad message from your mom. :(

Sounds like you came through A -okay though.

[belladonnacordial]

Hello Daniel! :wave:

You seem to have found a lot of wisdom through your experiences growing up. I look forward to reading your posts! Welcome to the forum!

Love and peace to you, Donna

[BruceChris]

It is unfortunate, the messages that you recieved earlier. Self esteem is an important part of who we are. When Jesus said "Love others, as you love yourself", He gave us a two part message.

It is often easier to love others, than to love ourselves. And to love ourselves, first we must understand ourselves, and accept ourselves. Many say that we cannot love others until we love ourselves. The two processes are synergistic. The more we learn about one, the easier the other becomes.

Bi-coastal? Beats bi-polar, any day! :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Joe Allen]

The KJV Bible quote first.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

But, "men" and "women" are not in the Greek Text which the KJV translators used.

The literal translation would be more like the following:

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The context has to do with one person being ready for the Return of Christ Jesus and the other not being ready. Just because one of the two persons is saved by Jesus is no sign that the non-believer will be taken by Jesus.

This sounds somewhat like the rapture doctrine which is based on one Bible verse. But, IMO, it has no connection with the 19th Century Rapture Doctrine.

[nmwolfboy]

Welcome Daniel! :wave:

The world certainly would be a nicer place with less judging; imagine if we all followed Christ's second commandment to "love your neighbor as yourself."

Please feel free to jump into the discussions - you'll also find some great resouces here (http://www.soulforce.org/article/5).

-scott

[Daniel]

I think the combined wisdom of the world can be simplified. Don't judge others and don't judge yourself. In not judging others I find that I can forgive myself for the human similarities that I bear to others and in not judging myself I find that I can muster the love that I would like to give other to encourage them not to judge either.


And a great thought here! Could not agree with you more- though it can be hard to practice, can it not?

Being a student of Buddhism, your words ring a lot of bells.

Welcome!

[Pablo Rafael]

Daniel,

Welcome. I like what you say about not judging others and the idea of showing love. I believe with all my heart that LOVE is the most powerful force in all creation. In treating others with love we never can go wrong.

I see you haven't had many takers on your Luke passage. We mostly seem to be ignoring it. I guess I will make a quick comment without a great deal of theological weight. I see it as a comment that in the end of time there will be trouble (when isn't there). Some people will be taken by that trouble; others will manage to escape by God's power. God's power in this world is Grace.

Glad to have you here.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[DennisP]

Pablo Rafel,

Too many of us have labored under the religious intreptation of scripture.
Paul tells us in Corintheans that ' The letter of the law (scripture) killeth and the spirit of law gives Life'. The word spirit from the Greek has the same root word as 'figurative' 'symbolic'. I believe that Paul is telling us that a literal translation of scripture killeth, leads us into judgement and
back to a religious way of life which historically leads to man's world, not the world of the Spirit. The Adam & Eve tale was given to Christianity by a man named St. Augustine but creates more questions than it answers, by a literal translation. The Hebrews, from which it originally comes, wrote Genesis as a book of mythology and science. Within the symbolic translation, there lies many scientific treatums which were accredited to other scientists in the Western World at a much later date.

Take solace. Change will come. We must accept these times and conditions as part of God's plan, as which all is. Live your life true to your heart and you will never fail.

Jesus also says, I believe also in the Book of Luke, when being questioned by the Pharasees about what to do in various of life situations, 'Why don't you decided for yourself what is right?' Living through a pure heart you will know intuativally what is right. He tells us to pray believing, as if what you pray for has already been accomplished. And don't forget that in Matthew Jesus tells us that he came to fulfill all the laws and all the prophets with two commandments - to love God and love one another. That is the Christian that I work at being.

God bless you!

[Wanderer]

Joe--

I was about to reply to Daniel's concern, when I saw that you had already done most of what I was going to do. All I have to add is:

1. When reading the KJV, it is important to remember that italicized words are specifically words which were *not* in the original text (and not "emphasized words," as some seem to believe.) These words were deliberately added by the translators of the KJV as a means of getting a kind of "minimum of addition" which those translators believed was necessary in order to make sense out of the passage. We know this, because those translators *said* *so,* in their introduction to the KJV, which unfortunately is not in all printings of the KJV. (I have with me at this writing my Ryrie Study Bible edition of the KJV, and it does *not* have this introduction--you might look for an original 1611 edition. They are hard to find, but worth the search on many counts.)

2. I personally grew up Catholic, and thus grew up with a translation called the New American Bible (...not to be confused with the New American Standard Bible, which is a Protestant translation.) The NAB, for what it's worth, does not delete the first two verses Daniel referred to, although where the third verse is concerned, it does have a footnote. This footnote contains the entire verse, and calls it a "scribal assimilation to Mt 24, 40." Since I believe the issue Daniel was trying to raise was in v. 34, I don't think that this bears much on the discussion; at least nobody seems to think that v. 34 is non-original and thus non-inspired.

3. As for the KJV's usage of "men" in that verse, vis-a-vis the NAB, the NAB inserts the word "people" at that point for probably the same reasons that the translators of the KJV used "men." Also, bear in mind that, especially in older English usages (...like the KJV...) the word "men" is often intended in a generic sense, to mean "human" and not "male."

Just my $0.02.

Wanderer

[Wanderer]

Dennis--

That's an interesting interpretation of 2 Cor 3:6! I'd never heard that before!

I'll have to do some reading on this....

Wanderer

[Paulus]

Dennis--

That's an interesting interpretation of 2 Cor 3:6! I'd never heard that before!

I'll have to do some reading on this....

Wanderer

Something like showing mercy...

Paulus

[Wanderer]

Paulus--

I've read your comment "Something like showing mercy..." and I'm afraid I don't understand it. Could you elaborate? Please?

Wanderer

[Jennifer5]

welcome daniel, glad to have you here! :)

[Gennee]

Welcome to Soulforce, Daniel. I'm sorry about some of the negative vibes that you were given. I think a lot of people have the idea that there are degrees of sin. Sin is Sin. Judging someone else is just as bad as stealing or slander or any other sin.

I hope that you find solace here.

Gennee

:)

[Paulus]

Paulus--

I've read your comment "Something like showing mercy..." and I'm afraid I don't understand it. Could you elaborate? Please?

Wanderer

Wanderer,

At the present moment I don't remember what I was thinking of that day. As for my absence here, I've been debating on other boards.

Paulus

[d_pedr]

Welcome Daniel,
you certainly started a discussion with this post! :D

We're told in the Bible about not judging lest we are judged.

I find that usually I am quick to judge on areas we are frightened sub-conciously that I am liable to fall. Its a way of putting up a barrier where we feel need one, (a bit like a rail at the edge of a roof garden), hence I see Jesus saying to me - 'Do not judge, or you will be judged." Luke 7:1. as very practical. I've got to a point now that I endeavour to love others, and leave God to do the leading and guiding, either so I can accept what I'm worried about, or for Him to do any leading of the other person even closer to Himself, and hence further from any danger they may be in.

As far as 2 in the bed is concerned...
The culture in the Bible was different, without central heating, so sharing a bed was often for heat and convenience. Even in Victorian times here in the UK, it was common for families (of between 5 and 12 children) to have 3 beds - in 3 rooms, one for the boys, one for the girls, and one for the parents. Luke 11:7 shows that a family sharing a beds was common then, again, probably, from the practical side of warmth. If caught out in the open in poor weather, its better for two to be in the survival bag than one.

Therefor I do not think there is any inference that the two in a bed would be in any sexual relationship, however the verse is translated.

that's my 2p worth

love and hugs