Goodbye

[andrewlittle]

I want to thank you all for allowing me to be a part of your thinking processes for these last few months. I must be off to find areas where I can play nicely.

To all of you - each and every one of you - God bless.

[Zerbie]

I want to thank you all for allowing me to be a part of your thinking processes for these last few months. I must be off to find areas where I can play nicely.

To all of you - each and every one of you - God bless.

WHAT?! :eek:

Andy, please don't leave the forum!!!!!!

[Daniel]

Andy- I 've sent you a PM but believe an acknowledgement here is in order.

You many not read this, but the use of the words 'play nicely' strike this reader as a rather cryptic rejoinder to an unstated question or observation. It leaves one wanting more- and wondering- frankly- what gives?

Play.......it's something we do as kids. And if we are lucky, get to keep doing it in some measure as we grow up. I know I am lucky in this department. I am paid to play in the theatre. But even there, the vicissitudes of life are inescapable- its all too easy for play to seem like work.

I don't know what it's going to take for you to get your mo-jo back, but I pray you are able to find your 'place' and are able to revel in it fully. You deserve nothing less.

And on a personal note: Andy- you are a natural leader. Just because I don't always pick up the ball you throw my way is no reflection on you: your wisdom, kindness and warm heart are felt by everyone here. You will be sorely missed.

Please reconsider. Beside. All hell is going to break loose soon- we need you. Really. We do.

Peace to you.

[nmwolfboy]

Andy, say it ain't so! You have no idea how much reading your posts & perspectives have helped me here. i hope leaving the forum isn't a permanent thing; your voice would be greatly missed!

-scott

[u-dog]

Andrew,

Without you to kick around... what's the point in going on? :'(

[Jennifer5]

Please Andy, you can't leave!!! You're so loved here we would all miss you so deeply! Please, please, please, do not leave. :'(

[BruceChris]

You have always brought us thoughtful and insightful posts and humor, occasionaly subtle. And may I remind you, that for some of us to attain a better edge, it is first necessary to apply a good abrasive. :rolleyes: I'm sure that You-dog would agree with that. :agree:

Peace and much Love, Bruce Chris

[andrewlittle]

Thanks for the sentiments, folks - and also the ones in PM's.

You have U-dog to blame for my reconsideration of whether or not to leave, at this point. He is really quite merciless in his pastoral care approach - and a true friend. So after I get the stitches and sling taken care of, I'll pout for a while and compose my thoughts.

My reticense to stay is not because of conflict and arguments - I come, perhaps, all to well equipped to engage in those. I am, possibly, too aggressive when taking on hateful diatribe - not nonviolent enough in my responses when other people and/or their beliefs are attacked or denigrated - not willing enough to pretend violence and conflict doesn't exist and sit back and let violence occur in the form of words - and, perhaps, too sensitive to being told that I didn't play "nicely", or suggestions that engaging hate is "throwing stones". I am who I am, however, and I will not allow others to abuse, verbally or otherwise, other people. Time will tell whether that is compatible with Soulforce's guidelines. I may just end up being your cross to bear.

An initial thought is that "nice" can be just as violent as hate. To allow hateful and/or irrational rhetoric to occur unchallenged, at the expense of others beliefs, choice of religion and practice, and (of all things) choice of pseudonyms, is in my mind a violent act. Nonviolence includes addressing violence - confronting it and opposing it - letting the object of that abuse know there are people who would stand in defense of them. Brings Equality Ride to mind, no? So, my "problem" that causes me to deal with certain kinds of posts as aggressively as I do, is that I am, at my core, not the least bit "nice".

Conflict is to be engaged. Abuse is to be challenged. Visceral hate is to be resisted viscerally. This, however, may not be, in the long run, compatible with this site's notion of nonviolence and, so, it would end up being a violent act to remain and act this way. We shall see.

[u-dog]

The rumors that I beat Andrew around the head and shoulders with a 2x4 in order to make him stay are totally baseless ! I never laid a hand on him! I don't even like the guy! I begged him to leave. but... like the bad penny he is... he's back ;)

[tdogg]

Hi Andy

I know what you are saying about defending others who we perceive as being attacked violently, if just in words. I find it difficult to turn the other cheek when people I care about are the ones getting slapped. That said, I can't recall reading anything you've posted on these forums that I would consider not non-violent enough for you to excuse yourself. I hope you reconsider, you are a vital part of our group and it wouldn't be the same without you.

I'll miss you if you go, I will be happy and grateful if you stay. Either way, I wish you much joy and peace - we must keep up the good work, we are all in this together.

God Bless

Tdogg

[suzer1013]

An initial thought is that "nice" can be just as violent as hate. To allow hateful and/or irrational rhetoric to occur unchallenged, at the expense of others beliefs, choice of religion and practice, and (of all things) choice of pseudonyms, is in my mind a violent act. Nonviolence includes addressing violence - confronting it and opposing it - letting the object of that abuse know there are people who would stand in defense of them. Brings Equality Ride to mind, no? So, my "problem" that causes me to deal with certain kinds of posts as aggressively as I do, is that I am, at my core, not the least bit "nice".




Andy - - I am very much in agreement with your statement above. I, for one, would be sad if you left. You often (unwittingly) manage to take what I have tried to ineptly express (or sometimes what I am thinking before I've even expressed it) and put it beautifully and powerfully into words. I don't think I'm alone in feeling that we need you here, we need your voice and your passion. I do hope you will stay.

I, too, have struggled with what nonviolence means in the face of forms of violence that go unchecked for the sake of being nonviolent. We do need to speak up in the face of any kind of oppression -- whether we are being oppressed, or whether we are doing the oppressing.

Susan

[andrewlittle]

I have yet to see you "ineptly express" anything. We also need your passion and voice, as well. God bless, Andy

[Daniel]

Andy- so glad you reconsidered- at least for the moment. If you really think you are a cross to bear- I have news for you.

Everyone is standing in line - ready to lift.

[belladonnacordial]

Hi all!

Though my messages were private my happiness is public! Woo hoo!

Thanks everybody. Way to go U-dog! :weee:

Winning through non-violence also means savouring a victory. That's what your staying means to me, Andy.

Peace and light,
Donna

[BruceChris]

He said he was as Cross as a Bear. Totally normal, for Andy :unhappy:

P&L, Bruce Chris

[andrewlittle]

And everyone else - thank you. I must admit to feeling somewhat homeless during the short time I placed myself in exile. Jaime pointed out that I must have passed the point of feeling like a "guest". Quite right, Jaime - and thanks for takng the time and effort to communicate with me. You are a entleman and a scholar, but reat assured, I won't tell anyone so your secret will be safe.

But, this attention is now embarrassing - don't you people have better things to do?

[Daniel]

But, this attention is now embarrassing - don't you people have better things to do?

I say pour it on a little longer. Standing in the spotlight takes practice you know.

And pink spotlights are always flattering.

[tpdncr4christ]

I'm glad you're not leaving. Just wanted to say that... Extremly glad Uncle Andy.

[Jennifer5]

I'm glad you're not leaving. Just wanted to say that... Extremly glad Uncle Andy.

Yea, yea.... if you were to leave you couldn't be our Uncle Andy...:love:

[Emproph]

An initial thought is that "nice" can be just as violent as hate. To allow hateful and/or irrational rhetoric to occur unchallenged, at the expense of others beliefs, choice of religion and practice, and (of all things) choice of pseudonyms, is in my mind a violent act. Nonviolence includes addressing violence - confronting it and opposing it - letting the object of that abuse know there are people who would stand in defense of them. Brings Equality Ride to mind, no? So, my "problem" that causes me to deal with certain kinds of posts as aggressively as I do, is that I am, at my core, not the least bit "nice".

Conflict is to be engaged. Abuse is to be challenged. Visceral hate is to be resisted viscerally. This, however, may not be, in the long run, compatible with this site's notion of nonviolence and, so, it would end up being a violent act to remain and act this way. We shall see.

That's exactly how I feel. I'm very angry and often want to lash out for truth's sake – for logic's sake for that matter.

Philosophically it's the biggest challenge. To say and believe God is love and forgives all, and then get into an argument about it.

I think the whole point here, hopefully, is to learn how to apply that spiritual understanding better.

To compare ourselves with the Soulforce principles is tantamount to using Jesus Christ as our guide and his message as our goal. Failure is certain but the goal is fixed.

There are many here who exemplify the principles of non-violence infinitely better than I do, and I have come to the understanding that I may never be as effective a communicater as they are in that sense. What I have learned is that it's possible to to learn. Improvement is the goal now, not perfection.

The more I can improve my core "not niceness" when it comes to speaking truth, the better and more effectively I will be able to communicate it.

I continue to fail miserably, especially when the heat is on – whether here or elsewhere. But when I do succeed, take a step back and re-word or reframe my position/response, I remember that it's the experience I've had here at Soulforce that has helped to shape my understanding of the importance of that attitude, and thus I see that I've improved.

Personally it's never enough of course, but I have this sense that If I can learn how to do it – not get good at it per se – but understand it, I might be able to explain/help those who are good at non-violence be even more effective. That's the role I have as I see it.

I always look foreward to reading your posts, they are so often enlightening, profound and even divinely humorous at times. I would hate to see you go under these circumstances, especially because I think that the issue quoted as above is precisely (at least one of) the core reasons Soulforce exists: To learn how to confront evil without being evil in the process.

Feeling "evil" emotions like anger in the process of doing so is a given, and I think is a specific issue to be explored here on the forums. Point being, that's the whole point. How do I not be "evil" when I am feeling evil.

You are Andrewlittle, and we love you.

[scott snedeker]

I'v read through your posts and can understand why you felt addressing violence can be a no-win situation.

"Emotional pain is a symptom of being abused" either by my self or someone else. "Every time we lie to ourselves, judge ourselves, or reject ourselves, our emotional reaction isn't pleasant. The pain is letting us know that we have to do something to stop the abuse."

--Don Rene Ruiz with Janet Mills from the Toltec wisdom collection

Demonstrating the violence of abuse by contrasting it to love and acceptance and pointing out it's malice, shame and unacceptability is nonviolence. Intolerance to abuse when we see it or experience it is an entitlement and not violence responding to violence. Intolerance to abuse is good. Intolerance to another's entitlement to live true to his nature is abuse. Abusers deliberately or through ignorance confuse the two so they can dehumanize another for gratification as compensation for a personal sense of inadequacy.

These are understandings that I have gained from this forum and other sources. I have become more "grown up" as a result. I think you and the rest of us have also. I call it growth facilitated by affirmation as well as defending challenges to that affirmation.