How low will they go?

[suzer1013]

It's hard to believe this, but some of our more conservative brothers and sisters in the Episcopal blogosphere are suggesting that the Equality Riders, or perhaps some other GLBT friendly group, "staged" the vandalism that happened to the Equality Ride bus the other day.

Susan Russell (of Integrity) posted the story about the vandalism here: http://inchatatime.blogspot.com/2007/03/when-they-came-for-homosexuals.html

If you've got your asbestos lined boots on to wade through toxic sludge, read the comments to that post.

And here is Susan Russell's comment on the commenters: http://inchatatime.blogspot.com/2007/03/imagination-officially-staggered.html

At first, I got angry when I read this stuff. But now, I realize that is exactly what these folks want -- to make us angry and defensive. What is the best way to handle such lies and misinformation? I pray for these people, even though they pray for me to just shut up and go away (or worse). How can we counter their Untruth with Truth?

I know, I know. I have to choose my battles, and this one probably isn't worth fighting. But when I see my fellow Soulforcers possibly slandered, I really want to do something about it.

Susan

(BTW, may not be able to check back in a lot in the next few days, so if I don't respond right away, just give me some time :) )

[BenL]

Susan,

I have tried to keep the Presiding Bishop's fast this Lent, even though I disagreed with a lot of what she said. I have interpreted her call simply to be Christian and loving toward my conservative brothers and sisters, even though I don't feel like they are acting that way toward me. I pray for them with as little vitriol as I can manage, when my human nature really wants to berate them before God. I also plan to wear a rainbow pin to church on Easter, as a symbol that my fast is over.

It seems to me that while these events play out in the political arena here and now, they will be resolved lovingly only in God's time. So, while they all seem so urgent now, I have tried to give it over for Lent so I can find my own center in God. This has been difficult, because I'm basically a news junkie and can get so caught up in the blogosphere. I can't wade in the "toxic sludge" anymore, so thanks for keeping an eye on it for me and us. Yours is a prophetic mission I don't envy but am grateful for.

I may have a skewed view of the Episcopal and Anglican universe, but it seems from the pew I sit it that the ordinary people are getting a little sick of the high dudgeon that the extreme conservatives are keeping themselves in. Most people around where I live have gay people in their families or know others who do. Or they work with us. Or they serve on committees with us. Because they know us as people, mostly pretty much like themselves, they are put off by all the fire and brimstone. They want to lead their lives in peace, and they assume that we do, too. And they certainly don't want to hear about what I do in bed, anymore than I want to hear about their nocturnal excapades.

More than the extremist bloggers, I think that we need to keep our eyes on the House of Bishops as they convene tomorrow in Texas. There's a cause I'm praying for.

P.S. I reread this, and it sounds a little like criticism, and I DON'T mean it that way. I'm trying to describe how I have had to deal with this. I truly value what you are contributing here.

[Alecto]

They said Phelps was a big gay conspiracy too. ::dumbfounded::
There's probably some really interesting psychology at work that would be worth looking into, but not by me right now.

[IVAWSGT]

if Soulforce did it they would have at least used spellcheck.

[Zerbie]

if Soulforce did it they would have at least used spellcheck.

HahahahahaHA!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

Way ta go, Jen!!

ROFL!

[Emproph]

if Soulforce did it they would have at least used spellcheck.

Which is why they misspelled it...to avoid suspicion.

I mean think about it, it’s all part of their diabolical little plan to trap Christians into accusing them of victimizing themselves so that they can then accuse Christians of being certifiably insane.

There's no other explanation.

In fact last I heard, the pictures were taken from inside the bus – you know what they can do with photoshop these days. Why, who’s to say there even is an equality ride?

Someone should look into that.

[u-dog]

Is there is really any such thing as Christianity? Perhaps gay people just MADE UP the idea of Christianity so that someone would misinterpret it and oppress them so that they would have an excuse to go on a fun bus trip for two months. Whadya think? Its possible right? when you really think about it?

<<yikes!>> :eek:

[andrewlittle]

So you folks mean that this could all be deception? Wow!

Let's see, how would that work.

To achieve total hegemony, we'd have to convince people that there was a constant threat of losing what we've convinced them they have. Freedom and liberty is at stake. Not only is there an external enemy, but there are domestic ones, too. People who want to force into believing and behaving just like them.

So we create this new religion - one that reads into pre-existing religious texts things that are not there. One that then holds those tenets up as defining characteristics of TRUE Christians, and - of course - TRUE patriots. We could then define those other people who want to follow the real message of their scriptures as being whore-mongering messengers of Satan Himself (don't worry about that detail - we can create that concept of personified evil pretty easily).

Of course, in the process of stripping these people of their "inalienable" rights, we'd have to convince people that they are actually trying to steal ours away from us - that they are trying to make us all clones of their own demonic style of religious belief and aberrent lifestyle. So we'd have to include some definition of what the only truly God-given kind of relationship looks like. Man, that would be tough, wouldn't it? I mean people aren't going to fall for treating some artificial human construct for control of the worldly powers as God's intended purpose for human relationships, are they?

Of course, we'd have to set up incidents that make it look like these unrepentent spawn of Satan are actually attacking us. Okay, let's spray paint a bus - that'll work. If it doesn't we could do something more sensational - what do you think of planes crashing into buildings we've already set up to implode on themselves - we could even set up the stage by having mock "disaster recovery" drills for exactly that scenario on the same day. Okay, now I'm just talking crazy. Sorry!

I think what we need to do to accomplish this is to take control of some major media outlets, place some unreflective, insipid, moronic, power-hungry, profiteering, judgmental dolts in power (you know, TRUE Christians like us), and then start legislating the attrocious bullshit we'd contrived into law.

Wow! Gaining power of all the world using deception, hatred and oppression as the proper tools of OUR loving God. What a rush!

Yeah, but it would never work, would it? Seems kind of far-fetched.

[Diane Vera]

They said Phelps was a big gay conspiracy too. ::dumbfounded::
There's probably some really interesting psychology at work that would be worth looking into, but not by me right now.

Mostly just an over-reliance on the principle of "Who benefits?" as a way of figuring out what's really going on.

The reality is that having a total jerk like Phelps as an enemy has indeed helped build public sympathy for the gay rights cause.

From this, some people conclude that Phelps is in secret sympathy with the gay rights cause, rather than that he really is just a total jerk.

[Diane Vera]

When They Came for the Homosexuals…
By Chris Hedges
Mar 11, 2007
Truthdig (http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070311_when_they_came_for_the_homosexuals/)

Includes some commentary on the vandalism of an ER bus.

[Daniel]

Diane- thanks for the link. I read Truthdig often, but somehow missed this new article by Hedges.

We're had several threads here on the forum that dealt with Dominionism and Christian Facism etc, so it was interesting to read Mel White's perspective on the matter.



The Rev. Mel White, who founded Soulforce and is one of our country’s most important if unacknowledged civil rights leaders, has spent most of his life, since coming out as a gay man, mounting nonviolent protests against these “Christian” bigots. But he and most gays and lesbians who resist usually resist alone.

"They [the Christian right] want to end homosexuality in America,” White told me, “and by doing that one step at a time, first the federal marriage amendment and then comes no adoption, no service in the military, the restatement of the sodomy laws and driving us back into our closets, or worse. They do not want to compromise, but they begin with compromise, after compromise, after compromise.”

The advance, White says, is demoralizing the gay community, which he warns “is losing the will to fight.”

"It’s safer back in the closet anyway, and since we can pass, or the gay leaders can pass, the ones who wear suits and have good jobs and have plenty of money, they will go underground,” he said. “It is the gay people out there in the hinterlands who have no options. They are being rejected by their families, discarded by their parents, kicked out of their jobs, harassed, ‘outed’ and killed. The gay leaders don’t have a clue about this suffering.”

"There are no fountains or cafeterias or bus stations we can integrate,” White continued. “There are no symbols that we can attack. Marriage, the one great act of defiance, in San Francisco and Massachusetts showed to the country gay couples lined up to get married. This is something they [right-wing Christians] didn’t like. The faces looked normal. They had children. These pictures were killing the caricatures. That for me is one of the great things we’ve done, just go to get married no matter what.”

“What frightens me most are gay people who don’t understand what’s happening and who are unwilling to take a stand,” he said. “Once they take away our rights they’re going to start wanting to register us because we’re the ones who have the most sexually transmitted diseases. They’re going to say ‘we want to register you so we can give you special medical attention.’ Quarantine comes next, along with taking away our children, the children we’ve adopted. They will take away the partnership rights the corporations put in place, because they can put pressure on the corporations. My bleakest description is that we’ll not only be driven back into our closets, but we’ll have to leave the country. Right now, we have to leave the state of Virginia, because of the law that says we can’t have any agreements, or any contracts, or any powers of attorney that represent marriage. So every gay person who has a business here lives in fear.”

It was also interesting to read the commentary after the article. Shows one a slice of life. What stuck out were several comments re the ERide which repeated sent the message we have seen here- abet couched in public vs private terminology: "Those gay people are causing themselves trouble.

The strongest point that I came away from Hedges piece is this: straight America better wake up, because after they go after gay people, they are coming for you.

[revtj]

What I see amongst those conservative christians demeaning the Equality Rides is a real resentment of LGBT people claiming to be, or taking the role of, victim(s). The baloney at Covenant gave me pause to think on this...

I think many of these conservative christians have been taught in their communities of faith that they (conservative christians) are being victimized by the left, that gays are trying to 'force' them to be accepted and that the government and activists are trying to undo and get rid of christianity as they understand it.

So when we present ourselves as the victims of hate crimes and discrimination, they think we're competing with them. By their logic WE can't be victims if we're part of the group they are so certain is victimizing them.

It's twisted logic but a common enemy unites the militant!

I think it's very important that we make this fundamental point which helps distinguish our complaint from theirs:

Our enemy is MISINFORMATION not other christians who disagree with us.

I believe our SF ERs have done an excellent job of sticking to & illustrating this principle by their actions & by their responses to actions against them.

(PS: Remember what the nice white folks in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia said when the Freedom Riders & SNCC came through their states? They all said they weren't racists but it was these outside agitators from up north who were stirring up trouble...)

[Diane Vera]

What I see amongst those conservative christians demeaning the Equality Rides is a real resentment of LGBT people claiming to be, or taking the role of, victim(s). The baloney at Covenant gave me pause to think on this...

I think many of these conservative christians have been taught in their communities of faith that they (conservative christians) are being victimized by the left, that gays are trying to 'force' them to be accepted and that the government and activists are trying to undo and get rid of christianity as they understand it.

Yep. For more about this, see the thread Christian persecution paranoia (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2673).