ACT UP returns?!

[Alecto]

http://logo.blogs.com/new_now_next/2007/03/i_just_came_bac.html

I honestly don't even know where to start with this, so...thoughts?

[Zerbie]

Ya know, I like Larry Kramer. I don't always agree with his every take on things, but he raises all kinds of important issues. I would love to sit down with him over dinner and talk for hours about this stuff.

I strongly recommend watching his speech (it's linked on the page Alecto linked to already, on the bar to the right.) I usually get impatient with video media after a few minutes, but this one, I watched the entire hour and recommend that ya'll take the time when you can. Kramer really covers the entire range of topics and emotions.

I liked very much his ideas for a more centralized web activism resource, stated in the last 5 minutes of the speech. It's true there is a lot of apathy in our community, he is correct in pointing that out. While he does a good job of catologuing the atrocities committed against gay folk worldwide, I think he does lose sight of the (admittedly slight) progress here at home. I don't find the picture is as bleak as he paints it (though I did feel so after the election debacle of 2004).

His comments about straight people are never going to care make me feel very glad that Soulforce is sponsoring the Seven Straight Nights for Equal Rights next fall. Gay activism is probably only going to make small steps until the larger community gets involved as well.

[Alecto]

I'm going to be honest and say that I haven't had the time to watch the video just yet (I will, and I'm sure I'll be back to talk about that), but maybe his statement about straight people is that we can't just wait around and depend on straights to stand up for us: we queer people need to step up and stand up for ourselves?

I think the progress here at home is primarilly cultural, and not-so-much legally speaking. I think that to say things aren't as bleak as they once were does not mean that they aren't still pretty bleak. Things are still pretty bad. Gay sex itself is no loger a crime. On the federal level, that's about all we've got. The no-gays policy for the military was effectively changed to a de facto no-gays-IF-we-catch-you policy. The lack of any type of marriage was changed to a federal decree that gay men and lesbians CAN NOT have the federal right called "marriage". State marriage, clearly, is not equal. I won't belittle the efforts of local activists, nor will I belittle their accomplishments on a state and local level. Different places have all variety of different policies that do what they are legally able to give equality. It DOES, however, feel like we haven't made much of a dent on federal policy.

[nmwolfboy]

i'm glad to see some good, old-fashioned gay outrage again! :applause::hissy::applause: i've not watched all of Larry's speech YET, but hopefully will be able to later today. i always have loved that ACT UP at its core functioned simply to give permission to voicing outrage at perceived injustice. (AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power = ACTUP)

i know there were people back in the 80s and 90s who said we turned alot of people off, but i also know for a fact that our actions shook loose the inertia that was so prevalent in the face of our friends and lovers dying.

One thing i thought back then, and still think today: it takes many types of action, from many different corners of the political landscape, to effect change. ACT UP's style isn't everyone's cup of tea. It never was. But i hope that as a minority community we've learned not to waste energy on criticizing the activists' tactics that we don't agree with, and instead will spend the lion's share of our energies on challenging injustice, whatever the form of action we personally embrace.

We can make a new world TOGETHER. We don't all have to agree on the 'hows and whys' before rolling up our sleeves and getting busy!

Pax :dove:

scott

[Diane Vera]

I think the progress here at home is primarilly cultural, and not-so-much legally speaking.

There has indeed been substantial progress on the cultural front. According to the article Gay teens coming out earlier to peers and family (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-07-gay-teens-cover_x.htm), by Marilyn Elias, USA TODAY, 2/11/2007:

"In my generation, you definitely didn't come out in high school. You had to move away from home to be gay," says Kevin Jennings, 43, executive director of the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, a national group that promotes a positive school climate for gay children. "Now so many are out while they're still at home. They're more vocal than we were."

Still, many continue to have a tough time. The worst off, experts say, are young people in conservative rural regions and children whose parents cannot abide having gay offspring. Taunting at school is still common. Cyber-bullying is "the new big thing," says Laura Sorensen of Affirmations Lesbian and Gay Community Center in Ferndale, Mich. "Kids are getting hate mail and taunts on MySpace or Facebook."

But as young gays become more visible targets, they also have more sources of help, experts say. In the 11 years since Jennings founded the education network, parents have become more supportive of gay teens, he says. Also, the network has trained thousands of school officials on how to reduce gay bashing.

...

In the mid-1990s, a few dozen Gay-Straight Alliance clubs were in U.S. high schools; now 3,200 are registered with the education network, Jennings says.

The Internet also has eased isolation for gay teens, offering a place for socializing and support, says Stephanie Sanders of the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction in Bloomington, Ind.

...

Teens are coming out in an era when more Americans than ever consider homosexuality acceptable. In 2006, 54% found homosexuality acceptable, compared with 38% in 1992, Gallup polls show.

Youths also swim in a cultural sea that's far more pro-gay than ever, says Ritch Savin-Williams, a psychologist at Cornell University and author of The New Gay Teenager. From MTV's The Real World to Will & Grace and Ellen DeGeneres hosting the Oscars, "kids can see gays in a positive light," he says.

The news in December that Vice President Cheney's daughter Mary is expecting a baby with her female partner has even brought gay parenthood into the Bush administration family.

However, a major countervailing cultural trend has been that the more fanatically conservative and traditionalist forms of Christianity have also been growing like wildfire, both here in the U.S.A. and worldwide, during the past several decades. This kind of Christianity, of course, is the main social base of the religious right wing.

[Zerbie]

I'm going to be honest and say that I haven't had the time to watch the video just yet (I will, and I'm sure I'll be back to talk about that), but maybe his statement about straight people is that we can't just wait around and depend on straights to stand up for us: we queer people need to step up and stand up for ourselves?

Correct - having listened to his speech, that was certainly what I understood his meaning to be.

I think that to say things aren't as bleak as they once were does not mean that they aren't still pretty bleak. Things are still pretty bad. Gay sex itself is no loger a crime. On the federal level, that's about all we've got.
It DOES, however, feel like we haven't made much of a dent on federal policy.

Now, here's where listening to the whole hour becomes critical. I agree with everything you say above (plus the things I deleted from the quote for brevity's sake.) However, when I said I don't find things quite as bleak as he paints them, I am referring to him being locked in a mindset of everyone who isn't gay wants us to die, and that NO ONE who isn't gay cares "if a faggot dies". There is some element of that (hate crimes, duh), but I've observed more and more of the "mainstream" standing up to blatant homophobia - which was not the case (as I observed it) 25 years ago, or even 15 years ago. Attitudes are more mixed than that.

The kernels of truth in his 'alarmist' descriptions are still there: besides what happened 25 years ago (and I agree with his assessment of how things were in the 80s, that's exactly what happened), he's exactly right no national political figures stand with the gay community strongly or consistently, homophobic attitudes prevail at the ballot box, in the judicial system, and internationally there is widespread hate speech and in some places imprisonment and execution of gay people just for being gay. I'd be insane to dispute those observations.

But here at home attitudes ARE changing. Yes they're changing slowly. Yes I too think it's "too slowly" but my god at least they ARE and I'd rather see some progress than none. It's okay to acknowledge that some improvements have occured - I think it's *healthy* to acknowledge when there is at least a seed of positive change out there. There ARE people who care. LOTS of them. From there, we just keep plugging on, more and more will join with us.

I think he's right about - and this is my word, I don't recall Kramer using it even once during the speech - a general apathy amongst many in the gay community. I am glad Larry's out there making noise and inspiring folks. His words fired me up to try even harder to make better things happen.

[Alecto]

Just to clear up my ignorance: the Logo report made it sound like ACT UP has indeed been around the whole time, but just has been kinda mellow, for lack of a better word. Anyone know? I was under the impression that they just weren't around, and that they literally had to restart the group back up.

[nmwolfboy]

Just to clear up my ignorance: the Logo report made it sound like ACT UP has indeed been around the whole time, but just has been kinda mellow, for lack of a better word. Anyone know? I was under the impression that they just weren't around, and that they literally had to restart the group back up.

The ACT UP group i was involved with in the late 80s & early 90s was more like an organic cellular organism than a structured membership organization. Now, i'm no expert on the history of ACT UP, but i'd say that ACT UP has never really gone away.

ACT UP always tried to keep its focus on AIDS related issues. With the treatment advances and better disease management, fewer and fewer of our friends & lovers were dying. The immediacy of outrage became harder to maintain, with the exception of some individuals like Larry Kramer. Fewer and fewer people showed up at meetings. Less energy was devoted to AIDS-related zaps and actions. In the organic group model, if folks didn't ante up support for an action, then the action didn't happen.

Some of us started to turn to other issues. The personal connections and empowerment discovered through ACT UP spawned many other groups that operated similarly to ACT UP {like Queer Nation; in Pittsburgh where i lived other groups appeared, including the Committee Against Racism (CAR) and the guerilla street theater of the pro-choice "Church Ladies for Choice".} The people who flocked around ACT UP in the 80s and 90s and put their energies into zaps and actions are mostly still around. Many of us have continued to be involved in a variety of political and community efforts.

Again, i wouldn't say that ACT UP ever went away. People's energies just got directed elsewhere. In my case i started to really burn out after the '93 glbt March on Washington. Then i moved to New Mexico & focused more on my primary relationships and just living life for a few years. Along the way i turned into a more traditional citizen activist concerned with glbt issues, HIV/AIDS and disability issues, issues of sexual freedom and community building. i know the passionate street activist inside me is still there - i've just developed a low tolerance for consensus process meetings. :headbang:

If attention and energy are gathering around AIDS related issues once again, that's all for the good.

[Alecto]

::watches video::


I think he, as an older activist, is very distraught at the apathy (I find the word appropriate too). He was distraught then (Was he involved in Queer Nation? "Army of lovers" and all...), and he's distraught now, and I don't hold it against him, when trying to fight that apathy and light a fire under the queer community's ass, to be selective about which information he focuses on. Not finished just yet, but I haven't heard him say there's been ZERO progress of any sort. The comments at the beginning about being back in 1981 were really about coming full circle regarding people's motivation.

Also: this has been concerning me for awhile now, so HOORAY for him saying it. Marriage is NOT the apex of queer equality. If we do get it, we won't be "done", or anywhere near it.

"Who cares if a faggot dies?" Yes, straight people care. Some of them. Sometimes. I won't defend his words, as such, but I will say that he's right that in the government, no one cares. Because saving gay lives is too dangerous. And, in fairness, so is standing up for ANY moral issues with foreign policy. But there should be just as much outrage for those, too, instead of no outrage. If that makes sense.


Also, sidenote: I took my lazy bum to wikipedia and got educated about ACT UP's decline (though continued activity).

[Zerbie]

Yes Alecto, it makes total sense.

[tdogg]

I get frustrated and perplexed at the apathy I see in the gays and lesbians I know, even my partner. When I discuss my opinions and beliefs especially in regards to things I read on the forums here including links to news, blogs, etc., very often I get a reply of "yeah, I was like that too a long time ago". So they attritube my passion for equality and current issues to be a product of the fact I came out just a few short years ago?? I only hope and pray I feel the same in 10 years as I feel today, and have felt for several years (yes, even well before I finally accepted myself). It's sad and I don't understand why people who are subject to such limitations would be ok with them.

I was at dinner with two lesbian friends and a straight friend. The discussion ran into equality, civil rights and soulforce, as well as various related actions and events. After listening to me, my straight friend looked at the other two and said point blank that she was very disappointed in them. Of course, it was half in jest, but half serious. She had a real look in her eye that appeared to wonder why they were so complacent about issues that affect them. I know it makes me look a bit freakish to my friends, but I'm ok with that. I just wonder how they are ok with life as it is for them now. Or, maybe it's not necessarily ok, they are just too lazy and self-absorbed to do anything about it. Wow, that sounds harsh - self absorbed. Maybe it's more that they just don't have the emotional or mental energy to deal with it??

[Zerbie]

Hiya Tdogg! :wave:

I imagine it's a matter of where someone is "at", at any given moment. I know I move in cycles. Several years "on" with the activism, and then a few years "off." Emotional energy does get spent, and it does run out.

I consider that someone who is working full time and raising a family, coping with mortgage payments, accelerating gas prices and health care premiums, etc., has plenty on their plate as they go about their daily life. Add to that one crisis, personal, familial, financial, and who wouldn't be on Overload?

Being in a position to give back, having the emotional/psychological energy to spare, and/or the financial means to help a worthy cause, is a sign of good fortune, even privilege. A few years ago, I wanted to be an activist, but I was so exhausted and poor whilst working 90 hours a week, I literally COULDN'T help anybody else.

Otoh, I've shared your frustration with apathy. At times it has seemed to me that no one even cared about their OWN situation. I suppose that appearance can have any number of causes.

My personal favorite irony is recalling all the discouragement I got from gay people when I first dove into activism. Had a musical mentor (gay male) drop all communication with me when he found out I was still involved with the local gay activist coalition (he had tried to protect me by deciding FOR me that gay people "aren't worth it." Yes, he said that to me.) And only about a year ago a gay male colleague pulled me aside behind closed doors to whisper a recommendation that I drop the cause.

I figger - I'm not these people and our priorities are just different. They don't have a right to decide my priorities for me, nor do they have a right, because they are gay men, to pass judgment on whether other gay people are "worth it" or not. :mad: This is the cause that grabs me and resonates most deeply within, and therefore I do the activism stuff ultimately for myself, because it is my own conscience that demands it. :pray:

[tdogg]

Hi back Zerbie :wave:

I hear what you are saying. I think there's a difference between complacent and apathetic. I could see complacent describing those who don't have enough energy or resources after putting in a day of their life to apply towards activism. But the apathy is hard to take. Seems like they just don't care. Sometimes I even take a break, albeit a short one, but a break nonetheless. It is sometimes easier to be happy with how things are.
And sometimes I think it's a result of my passion also, more passionate than many I know. Passionate people are more inclined to be active upon their beliefs.

My friends are great, hopefully I didn't make it sound like they weren't! So if any of you are reading this, I love you all even in complacency! They are some of my best champions. I could see myself in a past life, leading a very small and brave faction of passionate women in a battle of civil rights while my friends would be the support back home...does that make sense? My partner has basically learned to live with my passion and opinions and actually I've been able to help her see the light at times! ;)

[Diane Vera]

Otoh, I've shared your frustration with apathy. At times it has seemed to me that no one even cared about their OWN situation. I suppose that appearance can have any number of causes.

What do you think are some of the causes, besides just being too busy with other things?

My personal favorite irony is recalling all the discouragement I got from gay people when I first dove into activism. Had a musical mentor (gay male) drop all communication with me when he found out I was still involved with the local gay activist coalition (he had tried to protect me by deciding FOR me that gay people "aren't worth it." Yes, he said that to me.)

Why do you think he outright opposed your activism -- to the point of dropping all communication with you -- rather than merely being uninterested or telling you he thought it was a waste of time?

That's more than just apathy. How common do you think such attitudes are among GLBT people?

[Zerbie]

What do you think are some of the causes, besides just being too busy with other things?

I forget what possibilities were floating around my mind as I wrote this the other day - - lessee. . . Here are some speculations as they pop into mind:

Personal crisis (of any sort, that trumps being "busy"), burn-out, emotional defense (like when I refuse to watch the news b/c I can't handle the emotional overload anymore), satisfaction with one's own life, (ie:"Well *I'VE* been out of the closet for 20 years and NOTHING bad ever happened to ME because of it,"), sheer unawareness of one's lack of equal legal status, (said to me by a gay man BEFORE Lawrence v Texas, "But there's no law against me having sex in the privacy of my own home, they CAN'T arrest me for that." Er, well, back then, they COULD.)

Why do you think he outright opposed your activism -- to the point of dropping all communication with you -- rather than merely being uninterested or telling you he thought it was a waste of time?

That's more than just apathy. How common do you think such attitudes are among GLBT people?

I'm not going to address the last question since it's asking me to generalize and guess a percentage, which I am simply unequipped in any way to do.

To answer the question about my mentor who dropped me, Diane, I didn't offer any background info in the post above. I talked about this months ago in a thread called "Conflicted gay/bi people". You could search it easily.

Anyway, he was an older colleague (15 years older than me) who took me under his wing. I am sure that his only conscious intention in what he did/said was to protect me. What he said, though, revealed quite a lot of internal homophobia. Told me he had tried therapy to change his orientation, and that he "failed" it. That he "can't" be "normal." That he would leave his partner in an instant if they came up with a new therapy to cure homosexuality. That I had a choice to avoid these issues, a choice that he didn't have, so therefore I should retreat into heterosexual privilege to avoid living in fear. That I would ruin my career by associating with gay rights. That, in fact, I should avoid even having gay friends b/c even that was "dangerous."

I told him the fact that he and millions of others could not change was a major reason I had be involved in activism. That was when he said, "Don't throw your life away for people like me. We aren't worth it." Grabbed both of my arms and squeezed, ordered me to promise him I would abandon gay rights causes. I only promised him b/c he said he would never let go of my arms until I did - so otherwise, we would probably still be standing there frowning at each other all these years later.

A couple months later we saw each other again and he quietly asked if I had dropped involvement and gotten things "sorted out." I told him, "I am still very involved with gay rights activism." He looked very sad, and never spoke to me again. Wouldn't even return an email.

[Rick336]

Wow. I wish I had been at this protest. There's nothing like a good protest demonstration to get your frustrations out. It's been a long time since I participated in one. I think the last one I was in, I was the main speaker. We were protesting against anti-gay police brutality. That was in Minneapolis back in 1982.

It's good to see Act-Up getting fired up again. Protests like this one gets people's attention. In fact, I think I saw a photo of it in this week's Time magazine.

**Correction: It was in Newsweek Magazine.