Guiliani and the Issues

[Tinkerbell047]

It's still a ways out from election time, but the primaries are closing in quickly. I'm still an advocate for Clinton, but I have heard some great news for us and the Republican party.

Rudy Guiliani is going to be running for the Republican ticket. I've been so worried about who the Reps would have, because most of them are anti-gay, that I've been beside myself. Oh, I get WAYYYY too into politics for my own good. However, the other night I heard my parents discussing the Rep ticket, so I started paying attention, ready to jump in and save my favorite candidate from sure destruction at the hands of my father's tongue, when he said that Guiliani was "an absolute no" and before I could ask why, my mother did for me... anyway, my dad had read that he was pro gay marriage, pro civil unions, pro gay rights, and (not a fan of this one) pro abortion. So, in the minds of my mother and father this disqualifys him from the race (or rather, their votes), BUT, if he gets on the ticket, and Clinton or half of the other running Dems do too, then it will be a very good four years for us by way of congressional decisions.

-Tink

[BruceChris]

This early in the campaign, it is important to remember that what the candidates usually has very little to do with where thay actually stand on the issues. What they are doing these days is called "posturing", and it is mainly aimed at the next primary, and whatever group of voters that they think will be their main base of support, at least for now.

I'm Hillary, all the way, too. (Unless Bush and Cheney both keel over permanently, and then I'll probably support Nancy Pelosi.)

We do have to keep one thing in mind, however. We do NOT want the Republicans to run a total nutcase, on the theory that he will surely lose. With Republicans, it's far too likely that he will win. :eek: :confused: :eek:

Peace and Love, but very likely only if the right woman wins, Bruce Chris

[dsdrane]

As a big FoB (Fan of Bill) and as a former New Yorker, I've been favorably disposed to Hillary for eons. I've spent more than my share of hot air defending her against the throngs of anti-Hill people, who would hate her even if Christ himself annointed her on prime-time television.

Not anymore.

My flirtation with her candidacy ended when she demurred when asked what she thought of Joint Chief Pace's comments about the immorality of homosexuality. It was craven politics at its worst and displayed a fatal lack of conviction that, frankly, I don't want in the Oval Office. I was deeply, deeply disappointed (and I'm used to being disappointed).

I love the idea of woman in that (or any, for that matter) office, but my hopes are riding on a Gore-Obama ticket.

Re: Giuliani, don't hold your breath. I can see him running as an Independent, but there is no way on God's green earth he'll be nominated by the GOP -- for all the reasons Tink spells out, but also for his three marriages, very public last divorce, his tattered relationship with his son, and his penchant for extracurricular cross-dressing (just for fun, of course).

I see Tommy and/or Fred Thompson heading that ticket.

Read me now, believe me later.

:cool:

[Tinkerbell047]

This early in the campaign, it is important to remember that what the candidates usually has very little to do with where thay actually stand on the issues. What they are doing these days is called "posturing", and it is mainly aimed at the next primary, and whatever group of voters that they think will be their main base of support, at least for now.


Yes, it IS necessary to remember these things, but if you look back at his record from when he was Mayor you'll see that he's been pro-gay for a long time. I don't feel like he's trying to position himself with us so much as he is with the conservatives. He may say from time to time that he's "against" gay marriage (to appease the Conservative Reps) but his past and record show this is not the case. You may be right, but I'm really hoping that he's as a good a man as I think he is.


My flirtation with her candidacy ended when she demurred when asked what she thought of Joint Chief Pace's comments about the immorality of homosexuality. It was craven politics at its worst and displayed a fatal lack of conviction that, frankly, I don't want in the Oval Office. I was deeply, deeply disappointed (and I'm used to being disappointed).

Re: Giuliani, don't hold your breath. I can see him running as an Independent, but there is no way on God's green earth he'll be nominated by the GOP -- for all the reasons Tink spells out, but also for his three marriages, very public last divorce, his tattered relationship with his son, and his penchant for extracurricular cross-dressing (just for fun, of course).


What did Clinton do, exactly? These were the Joint Chief's remarks about homosexuality in the military, or am I thinking of something else? I think, not knowing what she said, that you have to look at record, because any politician is going to angle so that they sound best on any given day.

Okay... I'm slow... does Guiliani really cross-dress?

-Tink

[BruceChris]

I am disappointed also that Hillary did not chose to express a more definitive statement, on a very piblic forum, this early in the campaign. However, if you have heard what she has said in front of the HRC, and at many other times, you/we realize that she is supportive, when she can be. *Politics is the art of the possible.* The article below even summarizes those points, right at the top.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/clinton.gays/index.html

In a political campaign, it is all too often easier to accumulate enemies than friends. History is repleat with stories of candidates who said something early in a campaign that may have sounded innocuous enough at the time, but which boomeranged in the media, and they were never heard from again.

History is also full of examples of politicians that have made innocuous enough statements to the press, and then turn around and sound like Ann Coulter or Strom Thurmond when they feel that they are among friends. Political watchers (junkies?) like ourselves often pick up on this, but all too often the word just never gets out to the average voter, or Fox news listener.

Hillary may be many things, but she does support us, and she is not politically stupid.

I choose to take the long view, on this matter, and on the Epicsopalian Church.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1550724.ece

And if the stories of Guiliani cross dressing are really true, I think President Hillary will undoubtedly appoint him to head up the F.B.I!

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[dsdrane]

For images:

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&q=giuliani+drag

For video:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/154212/rudy_giuliani_in_drag/

As for Hillary:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton sidestepped a question about whether she thinks homosexuality is immoral Wednesday, less than two weeks after telling gay-rights activists she was "proud" to stand by their side.
Clinton was asked the question by ABC News, in the wake of Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Peter Pace's controversial comment that he believed homosexual acts were immoral.
"Well, I'm going to leave that to others to conclude," she said.

Full article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/clinton.gays/index.html

[BruceChris]

He also sidestepped it. -- So it's still wait and see.

P&L, BC

[u-dog]

This initial stage of a campaign is like a dance. All of the candidates are trying to get into as many heads as possible as "a reasonable person that I could see as President" and not as "a weirdo kook who can't possibly win" they are going to say as little as possible for as long as possible before they start lining up on the issues.

[TigerXero]

My friends and I are going to be ecstatic when we have a Presidential Election Night Party if the two nominees are Clinton and Guiliani. Everyone wins! Well... at least in theory.

[BruceChris]

Of the peolpe that OWN the Republican party outright, and all too much of the Democratic party. :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar:

Clearly, George Bush is owned body and soul, by the oil companies, and when he gets bought, he STAYS bought. :borg: I almost feel sorry for the man. Almost. :disagree: :disagree:

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Tinkerbell047]

Who knows. It's going to be a long road from here to there with everything happening. We might realize that Clinton isn't the woman for the job, and might find out that some Rep. is. Who knows?

Really, I'm hoping, like TigerXero that Clinton and Guiliani make the ticket.

[soulo]

Politicians are all the same. Clinton wasn't clear with her statements on General Pace the first time around, and when asked about New Hampshire's decision to allow civil unions Rudy Giuliani said that it went too far.

I hope that once the tickets are announced, the issue of gay rights is brought up during the debates.