Agnostics Heaven or Hell

[godloves12]

I have a girlfriend named Ashley who is agnostic. If she remains agnostic to her death will she burn in Hell forever after death?

[dsdrane]

Heavens to Betsy, no!

:whistleblower:

[godloves12]

Heavens to Betsy, no!

:whistleblower:

You think she'll go to Heaven?

[Britt.]

No. I really don't think people go to hell for religious approaches. If being agnostic works for her, she's supposed to be agnostic.

[godloves12]

Anyone else?

[keltic63]

what if hell doesn't exist?
what if it does exist, and your girlfriend finds herself there for other reasons?
what if we're all wrong?
what if we're all right?

[andrewlittle]

I have a girlfriend named Ashley who is agnostic. If she remains agnostic to her death will she burn in Hell forever after death?

Agnostic means "not knowing" or "without knowledge". The opposite of faith is certainty - not doubt. Faith is believing in the absence of proof. Certainty is elevating belief to the level of the absolute - a form of idolatry in that the certainty becomes what is worshipped. Doubt - agnosticism - is the lack of faith or lack of knowing. God works through all, I believe, including those who question - perhaps, especially those who question.

I personally think there is more "danger" in worrying about the state of someone else's soul or salvation, than in worrying about our own. Your relationship with God is your concern. Her's is her concern and not for you to judge or worry over.

[Daniel]

I may be the only one who find this funny...well....sardonic funny to be sure....but this thread calls to mind a quip made by the famous French philosopher....

"Hell is other people"

[kara speltz]

I personally think there is more "danger" in worrying about the state of someone else's soul or salvation, than in worrying about our own. Your relationship with God is your concern. Her's is her concern and not for you to judge or worry over.


I'm with you Andrew. And that is often, one of my responses when people write Mel telling him that he (and we) are going to hell. I suggest that they spend some time with Matthew and the sermon on the Mount, and ask themselves, are they really in any place to cast stones at another, given that the only control we have is over our own sins. Just yesterday the Gospel was the high priests trying to trap Jesus by asking Him his position on the woman caught in adultery. His response, let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

[dsdrane]

My aunt is divorced and is probably going to get remarried. She is dating someone new. Are you saying that if she remarries and doesn't repent she will burn forever in Hell?

Just say it. I won't get mad. This means that many people that you know would also go.


I have a girlfriend named Ashley who is agnostic. If she remains agnostic to her death will she burn in Hell forever after death?

If I may be so bold: what exactly is the deal with the hell fixation...especially the "burning forever" part?

:whistleblower:

[NathanATX]

Many people in more conservative churches have a fear of hell as a significant part of their belief system.

Personally, I choose to believe God is love. I can't reconcile a loving God with barbaric torture.

[Daniel]

If I may be so bold: what exactly is the deal with the hell fixation...especially the "burning forever" part?


Here's how I think of it.

We all die. No one gets out alive. That's the deal. And the more people identify with what's called 'body consciousness' and thoughts of 'sin' and who is doing those 'sins', the more they are concerned about making judgements re an afterlife and what will await them there.

It's all scorekeeping. And fear of Death.

Instead of the person keeping their eye on their own paper in the classroom of life, 'sin' obsessed people are constantly looking over to their neighbors paper because they are not convinced that they know the 'right' answers. But they convince themselves that the other person must be wrong. That makes them right.

But I offer that it's better to be Happy than Right.

If one is happy and in love, and is compassionate towards others, that's heaven on earth.

[andrewlittle]

While it is true that technically there's little difference between morality and ethics, people generally understand them differently - especially people who tend to be obsessed with sin and judgment.

Morality, in the way it is practiced today, is the proccupation and judgment of other people's behavior - usually, but not always, after the fact. This means we tend to discuss negatively what someone has done, based on our own value system, and call it a lack of morals.

Ethics is quite different in the way it plays out. Someone with a strong sense of ethics tends to pre-judge or pre-qualify their own behavior before the fact. They tend to use their sense of values to prescribe how they should act in the world.

I have found, at least, that generally people who concentrate on morality are less likely to utilize a sense of personal ethic in their own actions, and people who are ethically based rarely moralize. Just my observations.

[Daniel]

I have found, at least, that generally people who concentrate on morality are less likely to utilize a sense of personal ethic in their own actions, and people who are ethically based rarely moralize. Just my observations.

Andy- what an astute observation. I like how you've framed the matter very much.

I'll take ethics over morals any day.

[bryanf]

Honestly we don't have a solid answer. Here are various answers that various people who call themselves Christian might say.

There are those who believe that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation. And often they believe a result of not accepting Christ is eternal seperation from God.

There are those who believe that faith in Jesus Christ is not necessary for reunification with God. They believe that Jesus Christ will bring all of creation back into union with God.

There are those who believe that Jesus Christ is a good moral teacher and inspires us to live a good life. We may or may not have an afterlife experience.

And there are many who believe many other things under the banner of Christianity. Ultimately don't take what a single or multiple may tell you, consider rationally and with an open heart all things. I personally consider you to approach this thing not only from a researched/rational perspective, your personal experience, the traditions & experience of others in their testimonies, and any spiritual rule/authority that speaks on this subject. Often for the last people consider the creeds or the bible as appropriate. Good luck on your journey in search of an answer. Do remember there are those even in this forum who do not identify themselves as a Christian, they may offer you a perspective from a different faith perspective.

Godspeed in your journey.

[tdogg]

While it is true that technically there's little difference between morality and ethics, people generally understand them differently - especially people who tend to be obsessed with sin and judgment.

Morality, in the way it is practiced today, is the proccupation and judgment of other people's behavior - usually, but not always, after the fact. This means we tend to discuss negatively what someone has done, based on our own value system, and call it a lack of morals.

Ethics is quite different in the way it plays out. Someone with a strong sense of ethics tends to pre-judge or pre-qualify their own behavior before the fact. They tend to use their sense of values to prescribe how they should act in the world.

I have found, at least, that generally people who concentrate on morality are less likely to utilize a sense of personal ethic in their own actions, and people who are ethically based rarely moralize. Just my observations.

So those who are driven to live a 'moral' life are basically living how they feel someone or a group of someone's dictate they should. While those who are driven to live 'ethically' are living by the dictates of their own conscience? As someone who finally after more than 40 years decided to live my own life according to my conscience (ethics) and not sucumb to the pressure of living the life others expect of me (morality) - I totally get what you are saying and agree Andrew. Thanks for saying it so excellently!

[tdogg]

I may be the only one who find this funny...well....sardonic funny to be sure....but this thread calls to mind a quip made by the famous French philosopher....

"Hell is other people"

Sometimes they certainly are Daniel!!

[BruceChris]

We always judge ourselves by our intentions, and other people by their results.

I'll go with the Universalists, and the Course in Miracles. We all go to Heaven, and God heals us when we get there. (Or recycles us, if you believe in re-incarnation)

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Steven E. Webster]

I don't know, on this question I'm agnostic!

Steven Webster

[Diane Vera]

If I may be so bold: what exactly is the deal with the hell fixation...especially the "burning forever" part?

Many people in more conservative churches have a fear of hell as a significant part of their belief system.

Personally, I choose to believe God is love. I can't reconcile a loving God with barbaric torture.

Indeed, this very paradox (an allegedly just and loving God who punishes people forever for the sins of one little lifetime) is one of the reasons why I gave up Christianity at the age of 15.

[pnggrad79]

Hmmm! Several musings on this point. The Bible refers to hell in several places, but I am not sure if it is used as a metaphor or not. It would appear that it is used as a metaphor. When it talks about the lake of fire, in Revelation, is it a metaphor? I personally believe that one must have faith in Jesus Christ to be in union with God, I think it is central to the theme of the Bible. However, if one throws this out as nonsense, then I believe that eternal separation from God is what happens. Now whether it is what is alluded to in the Bible, I am not sure. I know that separation from God cannot be a good thing. And it is not something I want to experience in any form or fashion. So that is my two cents...:)

[Jennifer5]

..I probably am far from helpful to you. I say no, but then read other people's responses to see that I myself am actually probably considered agnostic.

I don't believe in spending your life waiting to go to heaven, I just don't think it's healthy to wait your entire life waiting for it to be over. I always feel that heaven isn't that wonderful thing in the clouds where all is good and you spend eternity with those you love, or that hell is that thing down below where you go to burn for eternity because of a mistake(s) you've made. I think that heaven and hell are right here on earth and they are what you make them. Maybe life is both, a moments you feel you are in hell and your turn around again and all is well. As for what I think happens to you when you actually die, I have very mixed beliefs. I never really think that you come back as something, yet on the other hand I'm sure that my grandparents have been my families guardian angels...

...so, anyway, I'm sure that's a far, far cry from what you believe, but my point of view non-the-less. I do have to agree with those who say that you really do have to say for yourself.... but remember, is this worth even thinking about, if it's keeping you from moving on.. sometimes you just have to move no and let go of these things. It sounds like it's really bothering you...:love:

[Alecto]

I'm agnostic, but I thought I'd throw this out there. I feel like if there's a God who's going to judge you based on something you had NO way of knowing "down here", then that God is kind of an asshole and is nothing like the usual concept of the Judeo-Christian God. So, if that's the case, maybe I don't wanna be hanging out with him forever anyway.

[Diane Vera]

I'm agnostic, but I thought I'd throw this out there. I feel like if there's a God who's going to judge you based on something you had NO way of knowing "down here", then that God is kind of an asshole and is nothing like the usual concept of the Judeo-Christian God. So, if that's the case, maybe I don't wanna be hanging out with him forever anyway.

This is another of the philosophical reasons why I gave up Christianity at the age of 15. Why should a person's eternal destiny depend on, of all things, the content of one's beliefs about the spirit world?

[u-dog]

THe reason that I spend as little time as possible thinking about heaven and hell as I can is that it is so F*****G CHILDISH !!

If there is a Hell, then going there is not about punishment. Christianity isn't about being "good" so Daddy will like me and reward me with a big bowl of heaven with hot fudge sauce and sprinkles or being "bad" so that Daddy will spank me and send me to Hell without any supper. Christians and Non-Christians alike... PLEASE GROW UP !!!!! :headbang:

"Heaven" is the life with God for which we were created. "Hell" is seperation from the life with God for which we were created. Both states exist during this life and continue into the next (I believe)

If I were an agnostic about whether the water in the swimming pool would hold me up or not and so decided not to jump into the pool... my exclusion from the pool would NOT be a punishment. It would be a consequence of my not jumping in. If I were an agnostic about the water in the pool, but said, "Oh what the heck!" and squeezed my nose and did a canonball into the pool anyway, my inclusion in the divine pool party would not be a reward for jumping... it would simply be a result of my "leap of faith"

It is entirely possible that Agnostics will not be in heaven when I get there (will not be included in the life with God for which we were created) and if not being in Heaven means being in "HELL" then... yes... agnostics will be in Hell. But that will not be because God gave them an "F" in spirituality or a spanking for guessing wrong about the spiritual realm... it will be because agnostics decided not to jump into the divine pool.

I have a hunch, in fact, that there will be LOTS AND LOTS of Atheists in heaven, because even though atheists can often have really bad attitudes with respect to God... at least they jumped into the pool.

just my two cents

Dave

[Emproph]

I have a girlfriend named Ashley who is agnostic. If she remains agnostic to her death will she burn in Hell forever after death?
What do you think?

[tpdncr4christ]

The "I have no clue" button is missing.

Honestly... Don't know... don't really care. I have a feeling if I go to hell because I am gay... I'd rather be there than with God. But, I have faith that I am going to live a life that pleases God, so I'm going up. But I don't really know for sure. I just pray like hell... that I'll get into heaven.

[Jennifer5]

Honestly... Don't know... don't really care. I have a feeling if I go to hell because I am gay... I'd rather be there than with God.

Exactly how I think about it... if the people I love won't be there, then I don't want anything to do with it anyway...