Hello ... again

[BrentRichards]

Hi, I'm Brent ... I was a member of this forum before, but got out of the habit ... been following the 2007 Equality Ride daily, so I figured I'd get back to the forum, too.

Brief version of my story is that I have always been a very conservative evangelical Christian, and it took me a LONG time to reconcile my faith and my sexuality. I was a student with Campus Crusade for Christ in college, and served on staff with that ministry for 3 years after school. I've been to seminary and served as a church professional (I'm not an ordained minister, yet ... still an option, though not in my current denomination) I've only been out for about a year.

I was formerly involved in the "ex-gay" movement and quite outspoken against affirmation of homosexuals in the church and society. As God's grace is inclined to work, the risks and suffering of those that I then opposed were exactly what made it an easier world to come out in for me!

My theological "evolution" has been a long process, started in part by meeting Mel White some 8 years ago at a Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly where I was part of the team for an ex-gay ministry lobbying against gay ordination, and being so impressed with his character and his message.

I've been privileged recently to begin doing my part as part of the solution, rather than part of the problem, in speaking with several church and clergy groups about my change of heart and mind, and how God loves and accepts us just as He made us! My conservative local church is now struggling to come to some resolution on how they will approach this issue, now that its also about a person they know and love. It's been very positive.

I'm hoping to join the Equality Riders at Messiah College, as I live nearby. If any of you are reading this, I am so proud of all of you, and just a little jealous! What an incredible experience and challenge it must be!

I'm a single dad to two adopted sons, ages 16 and 17, and a counselor by trade.

[andrewlittle]

Welcome, Paul - oops, Brent. Me thinks you are and will be a great deliverer of the gospel message of love and inclusion. It sounds like your vsion has cleared up nicely. ;)

Look forward to catching up on your posts.
Andy

[Zerbie]

Welcome Brent.

You have a strong message. Glad you're here. :)

[u-dog]

Welcome to Soulforce Brent!

Are you PC(USA) still? do you have any first hand information/insight/poop on the "One by One" organization and its leadership? Where do they get their money? are they for real? especially the perky young lady who seems to be the executive director?

Dave

[andrewlittle]

Welcome to Soulforce Brent!

Are you PC(USA) still? do you have any first hand information/insight/poop on the "One by One" organization and its leadership? Where do they get their money? are they for real? especially the perky young lady who seems to be the executive director?

Dave

Seems to be yet another in a long line of ex-gay ministries - the exec-director being "ex-lesbian". They appear to be in tight with Exodus, and with the Presbyterian Laymen. Now, there's a likely source for a wad of money, as well as the number of churches in our good old PCUSA who want to banish all by God's frozen chosen to hell.

[u-dog]

Is the Layman a SOURCE of funding? or another recipient of funds that come from who knows where? I have always wondered who it is that really funds the Layman.

And, ok, I know I am treading perilously close to the edge of the abyss of stereotype hell here but... if that little barbie doll cutie was/is a lesbian (ex or otherwise) I'm a monkey's uncle. Ok OK OK I apologize. Forget I said it... it was wrong. But I did think it.

[BrentRichards]

Welcome to Soulforce Brent!

Are you PC(USA) still? do you have any first hand information/insight/poop on the "One by One" organization and its leadership? Where do they get their money? are they for real? especially the perky young lady who seems to be the executive director?

Dave

I am still PCUSA, and OBO is in fact the last ex-gay ministry I was affiliated with. I did a lot of writing for them, was on their speakers bureau, and even (very) briefly on their board. I was with them at General Assembly when I heard Mel White speak.

So yeah, I guess I have some inside info. OBO relies entirely on congregational/individual contributions, and they really do operate on a shoestring. At least, they did when I was with them.

Honestly, I have mostly positive things to say about OBO ... they're much more moderate than some groups, though I obviously don't agree with their position any more. I contacted them about a year ago to ask them to remove my writings from their website and not use them any more, as I no longer agreed with them. They complied graciously, and I had several concerned, though polite contacts from leaders about my current position.

I do not know the current Executive Director ... she was not involved when I was. I dated the founding Executive Director for a while, oddly enough. The Exec position was very part time when I was there (with very very minimal pay) ... couldn't say what it is like now.

The positive things about my time with them included that they as an organization made no sweeping claims about the possibility of "change" ... they did not run any kind of change ministry themselves, their mission being largely educational. They also spoke frankly against coercive treatment, bizarre treatments like the so-called "shock therapy" and homophobia. They are nonetheless clearly on the traditional anti-gay side of the debate, but are generally very gracious.

My only negatives with them, aside from my obvious disagreement with their Biblical position, were personality clashes with one or two other volunteers who I found a bit disingenuous. But you'll have that everywhere.

Any of that helpful?

[Rick336]

Brent,

Nice to meet you and welcome back. I'm looking forward to your input here. And if you meet up with the Equality Riders at Messiah College, be sure to tell us about it.

I'm thinking about being at Montreat College here in North Carolina when the Riders arrive there on the 10th. It's only about an hour drive for me.

Rick

[RevVW]

I find this very interesting. I was involved with the Exodus "ministry" in San Rafael, CA for three years. It helped alot of us realize that we were already whole, accepted in the beloved as we were created, as God intended, gay. I realize that was not what they intended, but it actually had the opposite effect intended.

[u-dog]

Yes, Brent, very helpful. Good to know that OBO is not as evil as they might be... I guess. Good to know that they are operating on a shoestring and not sucking money out of some nefarious, unknown source. One would like to think that one's "co-religionists" are just misguided and not the minions of Hell. Glad that you have come out of coming out of homosexuality. Your voice is one that needs to be heard in the churches. Do you have any venues for that?

Dave

[BrentRichards]

RevVW ... I had a similar experience. Oddly, one of the last dominos to fall for me (so to speak) happened at a conference at a very anti-gay Episcopal Seminary in Pittsburgh ... Dean Paul Zahl (who has earned himself a bad reputation in the gay world by an ill-conceived comment comparing gay activists to terrorists) preached on the concept of God wanting to use us at our point of greatest brokenness ... it was obvious to me what that was in my case. It was not, as I had always assumed, being gay, but rather how I viewed myself and my sexuality. I knew that I wanted to have a ministry with other gay people, but I also knew from experience that "they" (WE!) couldn't be expected to hear anything I had to say if my starter was "You're not ok with God ..." Finally realized that to preach grace to anyone else, I had to preach it to myself first, and the rest, as they say, is history ...

U-Dog ... I've tried to be very careful not to throw out the positives of my experiences in the ex-gay movement, and yes, there were many. I was fortunate not to be running with the real whackos (shock treatment folks and such) ... I'm very fond of the Soulforce Creedo About My Adversary:

http://www.soulforce.org/article/679

Thanks all for your kind welcome back.

[Diane Vera]

U-Dog ... I've tried to be very careful not to throw out the positives of my experiences in the ex-gay movement, and yes, there were many. I was fortunate not to be running with the real whackos (shock treatment folks and such) ... I'm very fond of the Soulforce Creedo About My Adversary:

http://www.soulforce.org/article/679

What were some of the positives of your experiences in the ex-gay movement?

[Diane Vera]

Brief version of my story is that I have always been a very conservative evangelical Christian, and it took me a LONG time to reconcile my faith and my sexuality. I was a student with Campus Crusade for Christ in college, and served on staff with that ministry for 3 years after school. I've been to seminary and served as a church professional (I'm not an ordained minister, yet ... still an option, though not in my current denomination) I've only been out for about a year.

I was formerly involved in the "ex-gay" movement and quite outspoken against affirmation of homosexuals in the church and society. As God's grace is inclined to work, the risks and suffering of those that I then opposed were exactly what made it an easier world to come out in for me!

My theological "evolution" has been a long process, started in part by meeting Mel White some 8 years ago at a Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly where I was part of the team for an ex-gay ministry lobbying against gay ordination, and being so impressed with his character and his message.

I would be very interested to hear more about how your change of heart came about.

Are you still a conservative evangelical Christian?

[jedismama]

I' ve appreciated hearing about your journey.

Looking forward to more.

Julie Anne

[BrentRichards]

What were some of the positives of your experiences in the ex-gay movement?

I met some very positive, compassionate, and Godly people, who certainly were a good influence on me.

It was the first context in which I allowed myself to admit my orientation out loud (even though it was in the context of "I don't wanna be!"), and to associate with other gay people (even though they were in the same non-affirming boat).

It challenged me to look at and improve some areas of my life, which I am glad for, even though the reasons/results suggested by the ex-gay movement didn't turn out to be real/true for me. For example, I closely examined my view of and relationship with my father, and was able to develop a tremendously improved relationship with him before his death (didn't feel less gay as a result, but wouldn't trade the relationship for anythning!); I closely examined my understanding of what a "real man" is and how I fit that definition ... whether my definition or fit would match anyone else's, I'm glad to have processed that myself.

I should note that I avoided many of the negatives in the ex-gay movement that I hear others describe. I was never forced or coerced to participate. I do remember visiting a local ex-gay ministry when I lived in FL, and being absolutely appalled by the harsh and controlling program they described to me ... it was my first and last contact with them!

[BrentRichards]

I would be very interested to hear more about how your change of heart came about.

Are you still a conservative evangelical Christian?

Very long story ... 37 years long, to be exact (well, closing in on 38, but who's counting?). The short version of it is:

I became aware of my same-sex desires quite early, as most do. I was very serious about my faith from very early in life, and had at least a vague sense that this wasn't "OK." Early on, I think I alternated between thinking it would "go away" and begging for God to take it away.

In college, I became desperate over the issue, and neared suicide. I now know that I have a medical/clinical depressive disorder, which flared up at that time, and in concert with my conflicted feelings about my sexuality, was nearly deadly. At the end of my freshman year, I had a significant faith renewal ... whether this renewal caused or simply corresponded with the remission of my depression I can't say, but I again entered a time of believing this would "go away." I soon "came out" to someone for the very first time, admitting my struggle, but still adamant that I would not accept this part of who I was. Through my college career, I was often outspoken against gay affirming theologies.

My senior year in college, I became engaged (to a woman), which precipitated a panic ... I knew in my heart this wouldn't work. Though I was emotionally very close to her, I knew I wasn't even slightly physically attracted to her. I pulled back, and she reacted negatively --we broke our engagement and I entered another depression which lasted well beyond college.

After college (I did say this would be the short version ... I lied) I joined the staff of a very evangelical (and classically anti-gay) campus ministry, and served for about 3 years. It was during this time that I first met people who termed themselves ex-gay, and also when I first sought treatment for my depression ... though from a very fundamentalist counselor with an equally fundamentalist view on homosexuality. To his credit, when I revealed my gay "struggle" to him, he more or less brushed it off, rather than going rabid on getting me into some kind of change program. His response wasn't helpful, but it certainly could have been much more harmful.

My next step was seminary. I moved to Florida and entered a seminary-based Master of Arts in Counseling program. This was life-changing! Although the seminary was quite conservative, and would have very typically evangelical views on homosexuality, it was in fact a place where questions and disagreements were allowed. I was encouraged for the first time to recognize the tremendous variety of influences that affect how we read and understand Scripture. I also transitioned at this point from a very Baptist approach to Christianity (which I had inherited in college and following) to a distinctly Reformed/Presbyterian view ... one significant upshot of this was adopting the traditional Reformed view that it is not the church's job/right to sit in judgement on the legitimacy of another's faith ... we don't "test" our candidates for membership or insist on them "proving" the legitimacy of their faith, and the Reformed tradition tends to be less concerned (though not unconcerned, as recent Presbyterian debates show) with policing the behavior of church members.

I had by now certainly come to admit to myself at least that I was in fact gay, though I think I still had some hope of changing. I visited one ex-gay ministry in Orlando that turned me off completely (they were insane control freaks who wanted to monitor every aspect of my life, no thanks!). Instead, in the context of my counseling graduate program, I started a support group of my own through my large local church. The same church ran a counseling center, staffed in part by the students from our graduate program, and in that context, I counseled a few gay clients seeking change. I often think of the men in that group, and wish I could contact them to say "I'm sorry! I was wrong!"

When money ran out for grad school (I didn't finish, alas!) I relocated back home to Pennsylvania, and shortly thereafter was offered a position as Director of Christian Education for a Presbyterian Church in Rhode Island. The church was very clearly on the non-affirming side of the gay debate, as I still was at the time. It was during my time there that I became acquainted with OneByOne, began writing for them, and attended the PCUSA General Assembly as part of their educational/lobbying team.

I soon began dating their then-Executive Director, feeling in myself that this was a "last chance" effort at change. Unlike my fiance, Teresa knew of my history and my "struggle" and shared it (she considered herself ex-lesbian). It wasn't long before this relationship washed out, partly by virtue of being long-distance, but mostly because of my awareness that I was simply unable, try as I might, to be physically drawn to her (or any woman!). The end of this relationship, for me, marked the end of what was then my already waning belief in the possibility of change. I should emphasize that at no point in my journey did I ever experience what I would term as any change in my desires, though I have no desire to question the experience of those who have.

Having abandoned the idea of change, I still could not abandon the anti-gay belief system I had always accepted, and believed to be Biblically-based. I determined that I would simply (!) have to be single and celibate for life. By this time, though, my various experiences had at least enabled me to have respect for people who disagreed with me, and to genuinely accept those (like a long term friend from college ... the first person I ever came out to) who chose to leave the "ex-gay" world and embrace their sexuality. It was ok for them, but not for me.

Another job change brought me back home to PA again. Having resigned to singleness, but still feeling a desire for fatherhood, I adopted two teenage sons (then 12 and 13, now about to turn 17 and 18).

I now had no contact with the ex-gay or gay communities (I live in a very conservative small town and run in very traditional circles), so my journey became largely internal. A UCC pastor friend asked me point blank one day if I were gay. I was stunned ... no one EVER asks me that, and I am not at all stereotypical. Having no desire to lie, I said I was, but that I believed that my faith precluded the possibility of acting on that. I can still hear him saying, "Be careful! Please don't starve yourself!" Another domino dropped.

About a year ago, I attended a conference at Trinity Episcopal School for ministry, referenced above. At the same time, I found the line from Genesis, "It is not good for the man to be alone" stuck in my head and refusing to leave. By this point, I had to admit that I had developed a different standard/expectation for myself than for everyone else ... a bit grandiose, I know.

I had to finally give myself permission to take the arguments from the gay-affirming Christian community seriously, and when I approached them honestly, I found that they were far truer to the principles of Biblical interpretation I embraced than the traditional condemning approach was! Which is to say, a solid Reformed/evangelical way of approaching the Bible did NOT have to mean condemning homosexuality. I could remain true to my faith and my identity at the same time. And so, in answer to your other question, yes, I do still consider myself a conservative evangelical Christian. The pastor of my (conservative evangelical) church commented to our board, when I visited to talk with them about my views on the current gay debate in our denomination, that he was surprised when I came out to him, in part because he's always though of me as more conservative than he is ... and on most theological issues, he's probably right.

I had to see the Bible's statements about homosexuality (such as they are) in the same light as those about women's leadership, or divorce, or the church's perception of the Bible's endorsement of slavery, or flat-earthism, or ... I realized that ultimately, the church has had far more to say about homosexuality than God ever did. And the last domino fell.

This takes me up to about a year ago ... Since then, I'm out to my family, my church, and most all of my friends --all have been far more supportive than I could have expected. I feel so much more whole, and honest. I'm not currently out at work, because I'm not confident my job would be safe and I can't risk my family's livelihood, but I'm seeking new employment, and the job I have a firm lead on has specific protections in place regarding sexual orientation.

Whew. That wasn't even a little bit short. Sorry! Hope there's something encouraging or helpful there, anyway.

[u-dog]

great story. Thanks for sharing it with us Brent. How have your boys responded to your coming out? (you said you're out to them right?) My wife and I are making plans to disclose to our three college age kids and so I'm eager to hear how they responded.

[BrentRichards]

great story. Thanks for sharing it with us Brent. How have your boys responded to your coming out? (you said you're out to them right?) My wife and I are making plans to disclose to our three college age kids and so I'm eager to hear how they responded.

My kids were great. I was sweating bullets, but their response was basically, Yeah, ok, now what's for dinner? (Not in those words, but that's the spirit of it.) Since then, my older son has been very up front about it ... he's told many of his friends (I left that option open to them, though I cautioned them that it could make things difficult for THEM), and doesn't hesitate to talk to me about the issue. He's getting ready for prom, and recently asked me if I went to my prom ... followed by a curious moment, and then "Wait, when did you figure out you liked guys?" ... led to the opportunity to discuss why so many gay people stay closeted for so long. My younger son is not as comfortable with it emotionally, I don't think, but we've not had any issues over it.

In retrospect, I don't think it was wise to finalize the adoptions without having told them, but I still wasn't really facing it then. It turned out okay, but could have been problematic. It's my general feeling (I work primarily with youth) that young people today are much more comfortable with gay issues than we were ... not all of them, of course, but we've come a long way.

You also have children ... and a wife? Is your story up here somewhere ... I won't ask you to re-tell it if I can go find it here.

[u-dog]

Honestly,

I have been on the forums since October... I never did an intro post and I can't remember to whom or under what circumstances I have told the story. I'll PM you so as not to bore those who already know me... I think most everyone whose interested has probably pieced it all together.

dave