THE GAY RAPTURE: Why Did God Create Gay people??

[u-dog]

OK, Andy's introspective thread and some of our responses have got me thinking.

Assuming... as most of us do ... that God created glbt people because God thought that we are a necessary ingredient, what is it that we add to the stew that would be sorely missed by straight people if we were to suddenly disappear (a gay rapture?)?

The purpose of this thread is NOT to debate whether we are created by God or not... if you want to do that , start your own thread! (but be sure to read this one because you might learn something)

[Steven E. Webster]

Friends,

I think the answer to the question, "What are gay people for?" is very hard to quantify. People speak of a certain "sensibility" peculiar to gay males, for instance. Some suggest gay people have special gifts when it comes to leadership in groups of people. Some suggest that gay people have special gifts when it comes to spirituality. There are, of course the common assertion that gay people contribute particularly to art, theater and fashion.

One author recently took up the whole question of why gay men seem to get involved in historical renovation and preservation of buildings. I've not read the book, so I can't quite express what the author tries to say, but I gather it involves the believe that gay men seek to care for preserving our cultural heritage.

Some suggest that "generativity" which is expressed in heterosexuals by bearing children, is expressed by gays in cultural productions.

Some evolutionists have suggested that there was an evolutionary advantage for heterosexual females to have gay relatives as sort of spare providers to help in the rearing of children.

My own thought when considering Albert Mohler's proposal to "cure" "gay babies" in the womb is that the result would be to "mess with mother nature" in a way that would ultimately deprive society of the special gifts of gay people.

Sorry for rambling on--I'm just brainstorming. I'm also sorry to have said so little about lesbian and transgender persons--I don't feel I can say so much about them due to my lack of experience and knowledge, but I think the same must be true--that there are "special gifts" that would be missed if as a society we were able to make all LGBT persons "disappear."

Steven Webster

[scott snedeker]

50% of children born are male and 50% female at any given measuremanet of a population (within 2%)

Why so precise? It is part of the inherent design of the species.

10% of the population are Gay and 90% heterosexual at any given measurement. (within 5%)

Why so consistent? It is a part of the inherent design also.

We are part of the design

You would not make the incidence of heterosexuality 100% any More than you woul make the incidence of Male sex 100%.

Because you would distort the inherent design that has made our spiecies thrive for millenia

[Daniel]

A metaphysical answser might look something like this.

Gay people teach the world about the true nature of love, that which is beyond gender, stereotypes and dualistc thinking.

Oh...what does one wear to a rapture? White? It it like the White Party with better music?

[BrentRichards]

I like Mel White's answer (see "How Can I Be Sure God Really Loves Me"):

(I'm paraphrasing off the top of my head, don't hold me to the exact wording) "Once in a while, God gets bored with heterosexuals and pops out one of us."

[BrentRichards]

Oh...what does one wear to a rapture? White? It it like the White Party with better music?

Wait, I'm Presbyterian, we don't believe in a rapture, so what am I supposed to wear?

[BrentRichards]

The purpose of this thread is NOT to debate whether we are created by God or not... if you want to do that , start your own thread! (but be sure to read this one because you might learn something)[/SIZE]

HAHA! I just noticed your disclaimer, love it! (And, as a Presbyterian, your rapture reference is NOT decent and in order! [wink])

[andrewlittle]

OK, Andy's introspective thread and some of our responses have got me thinking.

Assuming... as most of us do ... that God created glbt people because God thought that we are a necessary ingredient, what is it that we add to the stew that would be sorely missed by straight people if we were to suddenly disappear (a gay rapture?)?

The purpose of this thread is NOT to debate whether we are created by God or not... if you want to do that , start your own thread! (but be sure to read this one because you might learn something)

Nice color of purple.

God created heterosexuals because creation needed populating. Rabbits did a fine job for this, but they didn't have opposable thumbs, nor the dexterity to type on a computer when God got around to creating them.

God created GLBT because there were many other things to do in creation, and heterosexuals were going to be preoccupied acting like rabbits.

The notion of "gay rapture" is more correctly understood as joyful ecstacy.

The notion of the other rapture - the one that, as Brent pointed out, you DON'T believe as a person of Reformed faith - is just God's pre-planned emergency population control measure.

Now, the "stew" thing stumps me a little. A stew is meant to be eaten, is it not? Do you think God is just preparing us all as ingredients in a divine jambalaya of sorts? If so, perhaps it needed some interesting tastes and spices so it didn't end up just tasting like English food.

[BrentRichards]

God created heterosexuals because creation needed populating. Rabbits did a fine job for this, but they didn't have opposable thumbs, nor the dexterity to type on a computer when God got around to creating them.


Look, just saying "we were born without opposable thumbs" is no excuse. Those rabbits need to CHOOSE to type like the rest of us. [dripping sarcasm]

[Zerbie]

OK, Andy's introspective thread and some of our responses have got me thinking.

Assuming... as most of us do ... that God created glbt people because God thought that we are a necessary ingredient, what is it that we add to the stew that would be sorely missed by straight people if we were to suddenly disappear (a gay rapture?)?

The purpose of this thread is NOT to debate whether we are created by God or not... if you want to do that , start your own thread! (but be sure to read this one because you might learn something)

My first response: What is any person created for??

Wouldn't we have to know an answer to that before we could break it down this way?

Having tossed that thought out, my childhood inclination was to believe as Daniel said. I was taught when little that we should hate homosexuals, and this had something to do with Sodom. As I understood that story, God sent heavenly angels to Sodom, where they were not recognized but hated and cruelly treated by the Sodomites. One brave person protected them. So looking at the situation I saw around me, I saw a crowd of people hating and being cruel to homosexuals. Synapses connected and - Bingo! The ordinary folks doing the cruelty are the Sodomites, and homosexuals are the Angels. And I guess that means I'll be Lot.

So my possible answers to Dave's question are:

1. it's a moot point, Queerfolk exist for the same reason anyone else does :p

or

2. ya'll are plainclothes angels :good: :dove: teaching us a cosmic lesson :reading:

:D

My serious answer: God created queerfolk because S/He loves and wants them. :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[u-dog]

You are all getting silly and rambunctious.

1. I am a Presbyterian and I don't believe in the Rapture.
2. If I did believe in it it wouldn't matter what you wore because the people who get to go are issued new uniforms (white robes, no underwear) and the people who are "LEFT BEHIND" are screwed no matter what they wear.
3. Rapture wasn't the point. My question is: What would straight people be missing if we all disappeared suddenly. What would make them say: "Oh shit! we really DID need them after all! If Dr. Mohler got his magic pill what would disappear from the world?

I am not asking you to read Gods mind blah blah blah. NOR am I asking you to justify your existence. I want to know what gifts or perspectives or opportunities you think would go missing if we all went to live with God and left the straight people to their own devices. How, exactly, do you imagine that the world would spin out of balance if we weren't here to keep things together?

Get creative!!! Don't get Pedantic!! This is an invitation to celebrate God's gift of Gay people to the world.

AUSTIN!!! Get busy young man... a poem is called for here.

A somewhat exasperated Grandpa Dave

[dsdrane]

Gay Rapture...?

Isn't that a Blondie song?

God made gay people so single-word-named singers would have fans, like Blondie, Cher and Madonna.

(Was this a trick question?)

:D

[superhippy7890]

Hmm wel let me put it this way. Why did G-d create the platypus? Surly an animal so weird and seemi ngly useless has no purpose right? Well the platypus is not useless. It adds something to the world in it's own way by being so weird looking and diffrent. I shows how we cannot trully fully comprehend nature. The same go's for LGBT people. We were put here on Earth to show how all of us cannot truly fully comprhend love because we are so diffrent from the "norm" of what love is.

[BruceChris]

Well, if ALL gay people disappeared overnight, or in a puff of smoke, at least it would have the same effect as if everyone who was gay suddenly came out. All of a suden, everyone would understand and have to acknowledge how many of us there are, and that we're EVERYWHERE.

Of course, if we all disappeared, such knowledge would not do us any good.

P&L, BC

[Daniel]

I am not asking you to read Gods mind blah blah blah. NOR am I asking you to justify your existence. I want to know what gifts or perspectives or opportunities you think would go missing if we all went to live with God and left the straight people to their own devices. How, exactly, do you imagine that the world would spin out of balance if we weren't here to keep things together?

I feel like the guy in the door of the emerald city who says after he won't let Dorothy in- and then she shows him her shoes and says the Good Witch sent her: "Well...why didn't you say so.....come on in!"

Well....David....now that you've said so, I can tell you this.

Should all the gay people suddenly disappear, there would be no Broadway shows. More than half of the people, both on stage and off, would be missing. Ditto for the opera companies.

Goodbye Art. Goodbye Music. Goodbye half your church choir. The music makers of the world will have decamped to the Temple of Music in the Heavens.

And half of the churches would be missing their clergy! ;)

Long hair would come back in fashion because more than half the people who cut it would be gone. And forget about getting married, there won't be any organists around. Same for the flower people.

And forget about finding a decorator. You will simply have to make due with the same tired old sofa and dingy wallpaper you've always had. But then- seeing that all the gay people will be gone- no one will care. :lol:

Oh....but I go too far....I am sure.

[scott snedeker]

I can never decide! oh heck I'l just go nude as usual! except the for the furry legs and horns of course!:lol:

[skeptictank]

Deleted for violation of Soulforce rules.

Read the rules before you post.

Nate, moderator

[scott snedeker]

This reply is not likely to be well recieved and I would like it to be clear that I don't mean this offensively, though some are likely to take offense at it. I won't directly state my oppinion and would like to point out in advance that I am only quoting God's words.



This is the only scripture that I'm aware of which reffers to the origin, cause, and purpose of non hetero-sexuality. For those who will take this seriously, I would offer guidance by way of suggesting that you take the "cause" to Our Lord in prayer, and ask him to turn your heart to [serve the Creator more than the creature]. As it is written, "Ask and it shall be given you".

In Christ's love always,

Skeptictank

These are not my God's words to be taken out of context and used to taint his message of unconditional love...

These are a test.

I believe God loves unconditionally in which case these are deliberately verses of falsehood ... put there to train people to resist believing lies about God (that he hates) wherever or whomever by which they are stated.

Let's turn it around. If I assume these verses are true then I accuse God of creating me Gay so that He could hate me and not let me experience passion romance and love of the man who holds my heart. Sounds like a Kind of an asinine cruelty. Like raising kittens for the purpose of torturing them to death by feeding them bird seed instead of letting them eat their normal diet.

You may see God this way, but I Don't.

Unconditional love over rules!

Asinine cruelty, I know better than to believe that of God.

If you open your heart you will also see that God does not practice cruelty, Only love. The beauty of this test is that if you fail it you can take it again and be forgiven for your previous mistakes.

Perhaps this is what you came to learn here on this site.

IN your own words:

I would offer guidance by way of suggesting that you take the "cause" [of unconditional love]to Our Lord in prayer, and ask him to turn your heart to [his true message]. As it is written, "Ask and it shall be given you".

For a pagan like me all living things are connected, especially me to you. Allow your heart to let love in without resistance or admonishment and you will feel God's love more intensely than ever before.

[u-dog]

I won't directly state my oppinion and would like to point out in advance that I am only quoting God's words.

Well, Skeptictank... as Jesus' experience in the wilderness so aptly points out, even Satan can quote scripture. It's what we DO with scripture and the fruits that our actions bear that tell the TRUE tale.

I heard a sermon recently that was based on Matthew 7:15-27. The point was that Jesus gives us a very simple test with which to tell the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet ... a true teaching from a false one. The preacher called it "doing a fruits analysis" (and we here are UNIQUELY qualified for THAT job :lol: ) true teaching is discerned by paying attention NOT to doctrine, but to CONSEQUENCES. Good trees bear good fruit. Bad trees bear bad fruit. bad trees cannot bring good fruit.

My question in starting this thread is: What Good fruit do gay and lesbian people bear that Straight people would long to eat if it were suddenly taken away?

Daniel pointed out that the world of church, music, art, theater, interior design, hair styling would suddenly collapse. I was remembering the fact that it was a gay man who deciphered the German "Enigma Code" machine and by conservative estimates shortened WWII by two years.

Your interpretations of Scripture (in my personal experience) bear BAD fruit. I have suffered with chronic depression for thirty years, a depression that nearly took my life and which has taken the lives of many young gay and lesbian and Transgendered people. Your interpretation of scripture influenced my decision to marry a woman which has had difficult consequences in her life as well as my own. Your interpretation of scripture has influenced people to burn glbt at the stake, lynch us, fire us from our jobs, beat us up, ridicule us, exile us, drive us away from the love of God in Jesus Christ.

I would say that your interpretation of Scripture pretty thoroughly FLUNKS the "fruits analysis" test that Jesus gave us. There is lots of other good stuff in Matthew 7 that you might want to look at and ponder too (don't judge lest you be judged, for instance)

There are also many very USEFUL threads on this website where we discuss interpretation of scripture. We have some very talented exegetes among our members (some with working knowledge of the original languages) who would LOVE to go toe to toe with you on the whole interpretation of scripture thing!

MAY I ASK YOU TO READ AT LEAST ONE OF THE THREADS ON THAT TOPIC AND POST YOUR COMMENTS THERE RATHER THAN HERE??? I STARTED THIS THREAD BECAUSE I WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE ABOUT THE SPECIFIC GIFTS THAT GLBT PEOPLE BRING TO THE WORLD. :)

[u-dog]

Skeptic,

You are hijacking this thread. Please delete your post and start a new one. then we'll talk.

Dave

[keltic63]

Moderator Note: 1 Post has been removed for review by the mods.

[Bearnabas]

There's such a high proportion of gay males who care for ailing parents. And who are in the medical profession---you won't believe the number of phlebotomists who are gay. I've watched as many gays help out in death and dying patients...they call it something in Canada, I forget what it is....pallette ministry is all I can come up with. They care for the people no one cares for.

I was asked by a closeted man "what gay people were created for?" and I like the answer that we were meant to charm God in just the same way that straights are..and you are right the arts would suffer....but I also see so often that we are emotionally caring people, who don't judge--mostly because we've been judged--and who care past the point where others might give up. Often without families of our own, we care for those who have no families to care for them. The gay children often take on the larger part of the task to care for parents. Every man I talk to for the purpose of dating has a mother he lives with (and not because he can't get his own life...) and takes care of.

If gays were gone, compassion in the world would take a mortal dent.

[Bearnabas]

Clergy fall into that rank of compassionate careworkers too. And like a previous poster I believe we'd lose a lot more of them, and all the music ministers of the world--bam, gone. LOL. But I see a high proportion of bears in the technical fields, computer programming, webdesign, technical issues. And in the medical fields where technology is required: operating machinery--all that help people.

If you lost half the people at the hospitals who are male... that would certainly hurt.

And so much of the church staff...that would hurt.

[u-dog]

Paliative care;)

[Bearnabas]

Thanks, U-dog. Palliative Care...I knew it looked close...like there was a palett in there somewhere--as in take up your pallet and walk. What is the spelling on all these pallets, palettes, pallettes, paletts, paliatives...

For those who want to know more on palliative care, I refer you to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative

Anyway, U-dog thanks! (Dogs helping dogs....)

[skeptictank]

Skeptic,

You are hijacking this thread. Please delete your post and start a new one. then we'll talk.

Dave

Done:love:

[ladyinred]

THE GAY RAPTURE: Why Did God Create Gay people?? To break the monotony , it would be boring if everyone were the same.LOL:lol:

[ladyinred]

Think about it did God create two snowflakes exactly alike?What about trees, flowers ,animals. Variety and diversity in nature are pretty much evident..

[bittybre]

god created everyone with a different cross to bear
homosexuality in my opinion is what lbgt people have to bear
it doesnt mean god hates them
they're meant to be here
and if they believe in jesus
they'll go to heaven
S.I.M.P.L.E.

i believe that were all here to spread unconditional love
and you might as well "BE WITH THE RIGHT PERSON"

its so unfair how they scared gays into being straight because they think its what god wants
when in actuality its what society wants


accept

because WERE not going anywhere
and well see you in heaven

[tdogg]

If all GLBT people suddenly disappeared, I believe the world would be significantly depleted of unconditional love and compassion. As others have said, the entertainment industry would be wiped out, as would fashion, interior decorating, arts (a broad range). At least here in CA, the state would lose a considerable number of public servants (state employees). I think technical and professional fields would be depleted (attorneys, doctors, techies, scientists and researchers). I know a good number of Arabian horse trainers and exhibitors would be gone. I think a few good birders too.

Those left behind would be shocked at who was gone. I'm not sure society would recover.

A great movie - A Day Without a Mexican - all the Mexicans disappear and the movie then goes into the after effects and how people take it. It's sobering and humerous at the same time. Eventually though, they all come back and things are back to normal. Not sure the others get the full message.

[tymejumper]

Hmmmm. The question what purpose do gay persons serve? Wow, that is a wide open door there.

Ellie and I often talk Philosophy and such, we are pretty nerdy over here. We have reached a conclusion and think that in nature, mother nature seeks to not over populate the planet because then natural resources are depleted. Therefore, she has created individuals that do not reproduce, but can enjoy the love and sexual expression that others enjoy. Also, there are people who do not want children, and those that can't have them often accept them as their own, ie: gay adoption.

Scientifically, we think that any gene and species has variations that are natural or even evolutionary wise, just different(like I am a lefty, most are righty). We could also fall into that catagory. We are just variations on the theme:lol::lol:

Perhaps, gay individuals are much more creative(in general) becuase the genes that make us gay inhibit the creative, drmamtic side of us. There seems to be a hugh amount of creative, artsy persons that are gay.

Why did The Creator make me gay? Heck if I know, I'll ask when I get there!:rolleyes:

My speculation is as good as your folks. I think its great we are disscussing such a cool philasophical topic.

[tymejumper]

What would straight people be missing if we all disappeared suddenly.


Has anyone ever read the book "The Meadowlark Sings"? It is about the gay gene, and how babies are tested at birth and how they are sent to live on a gay island. The results are interesting. The fashion in straight world is very bland, gayworld is colorful. That type of thing. Without going into the whole book, I think it would be a colorless existance for others, in drama, fashion, decorating, animal care and stuff like that. I believe we are very creative persons in general and whatever makes a person straight, inhibits this creativity. Stereotypes aside here. Weather you are creatve in people skills, computers or math, we have a certain flair that heteros do not have. Its my opinion and I'm sticking to it!:eek:

[Unmasked]

I'm definitely going to look for that book, it sounds fantastic. I would agree that there is a certain flair there that if not absent in heterosexual, is supressed. I find the term distasteful, but some of them really are just breeders. There's a lot we can learn from each other I think, though most of what I've learned from my straight male friends is that sometimes acting like a caveman is fun.

Hmm, that might be an interesting discussion. We know all the gay stereotypes...are there any straight ones? Or more to the point, and straight ones that are hilarious and probably misguided (like us and Celine Dion)?

[Rick336]

Has anyone ever read the book "The Meadowlark Sings"? It is about the gay gene, and how babies are tested at birth and how they are sent to live on a gay island.

I've heard about that island. It's called Fire Island. :lol:


Rick

[newcreation37]

That's an interesting question... Maybe we could also ask, "Why are there so many different languages?", "Why are there so many different religions?" Why are there black people, caucasion people, why are some born with eye sight, and others with only one leg? Why is there an Africa, an Asia, an Australia? It seems that those differences are what make life so interesting... A human quilt of sorts. After all, if we were all the same skin color, same language, holding the same belief system, the world would be an awfully boring place wouldn't it? Like an interesting quilt or mandala (http://www.art-poster-online.com/images/paintings/animal_mandala.jpg), every piece has it's own purpose and beauty. When you look at it up close you don't realize it's all interconnected, until you step back and see it all as one.

It's interesting that we sort of "bond" to the group in our closest proximity (perhaps those of a similar religious belief, race, sexual orientation). It's like a bonding of a brotherhood/sisterhood, and the group is often bonded by a sense of love. This is the thread that ties us all, even though it's hard to see that when we all fight against each other.

Struggle and suffering is a terrible thing - but if it didn't happen, there would be no growth, no advancement, no steps forward. Again, what fun would that be?

Now, back to your question :) What would happen if all the gay people disappeared, never to return? If there were no gay people or animals, I'm sure the balance of nature would be thrown off and population control could start to become an issue. I think a few people would no longer be forced to think deeply about their beliefs and religions. They would no longer wonder "Can this REALLY be true that I've been taught so long that being gay is a sin - yet I am meeting these wonderful, loving people that are gay"? A question requires that a further look into ones self and to the beliefs and customs that were handed to them without question. Then, once all of the different races were raptured - all the different languages - all the different countries except for one remaining, the world would be a really BORING place :) I think we are essential to that "struggle" and progression of life, otherwise we would never move forward in the human race.