Just a Random Thought....

[Amaya.Ookami]

I was talking with my old-schol-bibile-thumping everyones-going-to-hell-if-you-don't-belive-exactly-as-thebible-says cousin (who's 40-ish) and somewhere in our deep discussions of truth, faith, love, and life, he said something that made me giggle a bit.
He said, after I told him that the bible contradicts itself,
that there are many different interpritations of Jesus's betrayal, and that each one is true from the perception of someone else. such as, if so and so SAW it, and annother HEARD it, and annother HEARD IT FROM SOMEONE ELSE WHO SAW IT, the veiws would be different, but still the same singular truth. As well as interpritations and translations muddle things a bit.
So i thought about an icon I saw, and giggled while he was avidly discussion the bible.

'It really was adam and steve. thats what you get for reading the translations
-God"

So I was thinking, IF the bible is real and IF all that stuff happened...how muddled and mixed up and twisted has it gotten over the years and years that it's gotten translated? and what if the translators put some of their own beliefs into it, and influenced it with what they believed/wanted? I mean, you really cant know, can you? And what if it Was adam and steve, and then a homophobe read it, and changed it when tehy translated it? or what if sacrifices were NOT okay, but a....psycopathic killer translated the thing, and suddenly we have these animal sacrifices by cain etc.
I mean, you really DONT know.
So how can my cousin belives so avidly, and trust the whole thing on faith? I asked him, where's the proof. he said he doesnt need proof, all he needs is faith? faith in what? you've no proof to put faith in!
gah!
okay got to go to call now. byes!
-Kozi

[u-dog]

If it was really Adam and Steve then where did Cain, Abel, and Seth come from huh? answer me that!!

But then... where did Cain and Seth find wives? Hmmmm... I guess it could have been Adam and Steve after all. hmmph. whodathunkit.

You don't suppose that whole creation story could have been poetic metaphor do you? You don't suppose that THE G-D OF THE WHOLE DARN UNIVERSE COULD USE LANGUAGE IN A WAY THAT IS SUBTLE AND BEAUTIFUL AND NOT LITERAL do you? Nah! impossible. forget I suggested it.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

BTW -- Welcome to Soulforce Kozy!!

[SeesTheForest4itsTrees]

I believe G_d did create both Adam and Eve, but I cannot assume Adam or Eve wasn't biologically a homosexual. They just didnt have anyone else to choose from to fall in love in their garden. Adam lived hundreds of years, maybe he finally came out too. We just don't know. Come to think of it; maybe it was Adam who got the leviticus writer's "panties in a ruffle" as indicated in leviticus passages.

[Alecto]

If it was really Adam and Steve then where did Cain, Abel, and Seth come from huh? answer me that!!

But then... where did Cain and Seth find wives? Hmmmm... I guess it could have been Adam and Steve after all. hmmph. whodathunkit.

You don't suppose that whole creation story could have been poetic metaphor do you? You don't suppose that THE G-D OF THE WHOLE DARN UNIVERSE COULD USE LANGUAGE IN A WAY THAT IS SUBTLE AND BEAUTIFUL AND NOT LITERAL do you? Nah! impossible. forget I suggested it.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

BTW -- Welcome to Soulforce Kozy!!


I feel like I almost shouldn't say anything, because I don't identify even as Christian anymore, but I did always find it interesting that Christians believe that Jesus is God. (Some of them; I'm a bit fuzzy on some of the different Protestant beliefs). But, then, some of these same people who know FULL WELL that Jesus was fond of using parables refuse to believe that God, in His inspired word etc., could do the same. I never understood that.

[Pablo Rafael]

So how can my cousin belives so avidly, and trust the whole thing on faith? I asked him, where's the proof. he said he doesnt need proof, all he needs is faith? faith in what? you've no proof to put faith in!
-Kozi

Kozi,

I've got to sort of agree with your cousin on this one. I really think Faith is the key. Don't ask me why and don't ask me to prove it. It is beyond proof.

I will use a teacher analogy. When teaching math to young students I say "bigger number minus smaller number". That is a rule that works, and at a first/second grade level it is the truth. But in higher level math we realize that often we do subtract larger from smaller to get negative numbers. That concept is beyond a first grader. Another math analogy. All numbers have square roots. Two negative numbers multiplied together always give a positive. Then how do we have any negative numbers? We have to invent the illogical "i", the imaginary number to get negatives. Yet the imaginary number (the square root of negative one) logically can't exist, but it has to.

My point is this: I think that God created all the universe, the laws of physics, everything. We are like the first graders trying to understand. We will never understand the complexities. We will only know God and his working partially. It is past our comprehension. The Bible is like the math rules for first grade. It is God putting into words what cannot totally be put into words; it is his explanation to us. It is not a history book. It is God explaining to us a little about himself in ways we can understand. The Bible uses stories, images, explanations. Since the truth is greater than I can comprehend, I must come to God by faith.

I personally believe that God guided men to write down his words and he has kept and guarded that word to this day. Is the Bible easy to understand? No, I think God wants us to keep searching and seeking to understand. I sometimes want to tell God, "Can't you make this a little clearer and more logical, for crying out loud?" Then I just need to trust that God knows more than I do.

At the same time I need to realize that how I understand God is not necessarily more true than how someone else understands God. I cannot know God fully, therefore I must guard against thinking I have the answers.

I have a four paragraph rule. I tell myself that people don't want to hear more than four paragraphs of what I have to say. I'm afraid I've gone past that already. ( In fact by this time probably everyone has stopped reading.) You bring up a good point. I hope I don't come across as argumentative either; that is not my intetention. Thanks for letting me share my point of view.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[Renaissancefan98]

Well i believe that the bible was/is mistranslated. Books disseminate misinformation all the time. School texts still tell us that you taste different things on different parts of your tongue, a myth based on a mistranslation of a 17th century german scientic study. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's correct.

Because i believe that the Bible wasn't translated correctly.

[freethinkingrev]

I am by no means a biblical scholar but from all I have been able to gather so far, I, too, believe the works of the bible have been mistranslated and embroidered.
To me, what is now written is a reflection of the unrest of the times. The heathens had been driven from the temples and what replaced the worship of the natural became supernatural.
The maternal and loving changed to paternal and oppressive and life lessons became more strict as a means to preserve the larger community during increasing numbers of wars.
Unfortunately, the patriarchal rule became more oppressive, misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic and misologistic.
The words were translated by men who may not have been wholly familiar with the language they were translating. Words in one language do not always have a direct translation in another language and a poor grasp of syntax can equally confuse the translater.

Uh.....just noticed I'm gettin' wordy. Sorry.