former lurker going legit

[RM260boy]

hello,
my name is rufus, i have been watching the threads for a couple of weeks now and because of the passion and conviction that i have seen expressed here i have decided that i will try to add to the conversations. although i must say that you folks have set the bar pretty high (not a fan of chin-ups).
i am currently in and from Ky (go cats), however i prefer to be and will return to Fl as soon as i am able to. i lived in orlando from 89-05 woking for the mouse. prior to that i was in the service from 80-89 as a russian linguist.

[antonyh]

Welcome my friend. Delighted to have you here :)

[RM260boy]

tks antonyh, i didn't find one but has anyone ever done a thread on the importance of words... how they are used, translated mistranslated, as weapons or as comforts?

[antonyh]

I'm not sure. Some of the more long-term residents of Soulforce may know. Do you have any specific questions about word use?

[RM260boy]

not in particular, being a linguist it is something that peaks my interest

[Daniel]

Hi Rufus- Welcome. I'm sure you'll have great lats in no time. ;) Glad you are here.

[RM260boy]

tks daniel, not quite my goal:lol:

[Daniel]

tks daniel, not quite my goal:lol:

How about another metaphor then? Perhaps a pool? Warm and full of mysterious depths....but there's a shallow end too. :lol:

~

Emproph (Patrick) often discusses the use of words in this posts. You might use the search function to snoop around. Then again, you could start your first thread.

Go for it! :weee:


PS.....now I'm spooking myself...thinking about the difference between a metaphor and an analogy. And right in front of Mr. Linguist. Geez.....

[RM260boy]

i don't know if my doctor would approve aerobic exercise right now... but i will take it in the manner meant:)

[Dash]

tks antonyh, i didn't find one but has anyone ever done a thread on the importance of words... how they are used, translated mistranslated, as weapons or as comforts?

"Rufus" is pretty much the coolest name I've seen in awhile. Howdy!

Don't know if it'll be of any interest...it's old, and I haven't thought about this stuff in awhile:

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1191

[Daniel]

Finger aerobics? :eek:

[RM260boy]

on the key board, sounds good... i was at one time a very fast typist:)

[Daniel]

oops Dash.....you are quite the wordsmyth.....I should have remembered that...

Rufus- There are, in addition to the link above, some wonderful poetry threads by our resident Bard.

[RM260boy]

i haven't tried my hand at poetry, or my fingers:D but should give it a look see tks

[RM260boy]

sorry dash, daniel had me all flustered i missed your entry tks

[RM260boy]

as far as the name i have had it since i can remember... i saw a thread on privilege, and i found that one quite interesting from the fact that i have experienced the opposite based on my name. there have been people both dissappointed and pleased when they find out that i am white. so i sort of get it

[Daniel]

It's an interesting name, and I would have never thought of it as being white or black. I have met (backstage) the now famous Rufus Wainwright when he performed on a gala where I work. Nice fellow. The only other person I can think of who shares your name.

I noticed that you share the same birthday as a former bf (don't worry). And I'm a Cancer myself. July 11. A few years older than you.

I'm curious (a good or bad habit depending on how you look at it) what your impressions were while lurking around- and what drew you here in the first place.

Thoughts?

[RM260boy]

out of the other rufus's i have met only myself my father and grandfather have been white, granted i have only run accross that many who have been black. it is not the most common of names. i guess that it is the fact that having the last 3 yrs off from gainful employment that i have had time to research a few thing. i have had my eyes thrown wide open to the misuse and abuse of the bible. i am not one who is known for quoting the bible, but i do enjoy reading it, and when i have come accross something that is confusing or contraversial i like to try to find out what is behind the translation. one i have been trying to find out with little success is one of the clobber passages as to why the hebrew word ish (often used with the companion word ishah) is used as to the other words for man/kind

[RM260boy]

two other words i have found that could have been used is zukar or ha-adama, pardon any mispelling of those words i have very little exposure to hebrew

[Daniel]

Well, those words are Greek to me. :lol:

Seriously. When Andy comes back, I won't be at all surprised if he can shed some light on the words you mention. David (Udog) too. I'm constantly amazed at what people know here. And if they don't know, they know how to find out. ;)

The last bible 'study' I had was when I was in college- an Assembly of God school. I rather enjoyed my classes, but since then, have journeyed far from the bible and in to Buddhism and such.

~

You're a Russian linguist, yes?

I have sung in Russian (I'm a singer) and it is one difficult language for English speakers. There was the one time I thought "I don't know what I'm doing!" Not a good feeling in front of an audience.

Hats off to you.

[RM260boy]

not quite greek i don't think.. from what i can tell ish means more of "holy male", male dedicated to god, or husband. the last especially when used with ish-ah.
da, ya ochen' khorosho govoryu po-russki, ya rabotal perevodchikom pri departmente oborony desyat' let (yes, i speak it very well, i was a traslator for the department of defense for ten years.)

[Daniel]

not quite greek i don't think.. from what i can tell ish means more of "holy male", male dedicated to god, or husband. the last especially when used with ish-ah.
da, ya ochen' khorosho govoryu po-russki, ya rabotal perevodchikom pri departmente oborony desyat' let (yes, i speak it very well, i was a traslator for the department of defense for ten years.)

ah....I think you missed my meaning. "It's Greek to me" is an English phrase meaning "I don't know." I was trying to make a joke. ;)

Does this mean that English is your second language, and Russian your birth langauge? Or have I now gotten mixed up? Wouldn't be the first time.

(I'm full of questions tonight! :) )

[RM260boy]

i caught you daniel i was just being an arse. no i am a kentuckian so i guess that means that english is my second and russian my 3d:lol: ... i tease. most likely too much at times

[Jamie McDaniel]

i am currently in and from Ky...

Hello from Lexington. :wave: Welcome, and glad you joined.

[RM260boy]

well a big blue hello, i am currently in the furthest corner of bo.co. from you:)

[Daniel]

i caught you daniel i was just being an arse. no i am a kentuckian so i guess that means that english is my second and russian my 3d:lol: ... i tease. most likely too much at times


You got me! :eek: And I get a high rating for gullibility. :rolleyes:

Arse?

As we say in the theatre: Never reproach yourself. :cool:

Off to bed here.

[RM260boy]

the polite form of the 3 letter word, plus i wouldn't want to insult a donkey:lol:

[andrewlittle]

i have had my eyes thrown wide open to the misuse and abuse of the bible. i am not one who is known for quoting the bible, but i do enjoy reading it, and when i have come accross something that is confusing or contraversial i like to try to find out what is behind the translation. one i have been trying to find out with little success is one of the clobber passages as to why the hebrew word ish (often used with the companion word ishah) is used as to the other words for man/kind

two other words i have found that could have been used is zukar or ha-adama, pardon any mispelling of those words i have very little exposure to hebrew

Right now I have to get to bed so I can get up real early. It'll probably be Sunday sometime before I can post much and dialogue with you, but it sounds like it wll be fun.

Amen, another language geek.

[RM260boy]

thank you andrew, i look forward to it:)

[keltic63]

Looks like I'm late to this meeting of the Mutual Admiration Society! Welcome Rufus!


Daniel, I'm shocked at all the flirting! :love:

[RM260boy]

:) thanks keltic

[Rick336]

Rufus,

Welcome. I'm glad to meet you. I hope you feel free to join in our conversations anytime or start a thread of your own. You are among friends here. :)

By the way, I used to drive through Kentucky a lot back years ago. I always looked forward to seeing the rolling, green pastures with their beautiful horses, white fences, and antibellum homes along the interstate from the Tennessee state line all the way to Indiana. Kentucky is one of the prettiest states in the South.

Of course Florida is great too. I was in Orlando just last month enjoying Disney World and Universal Studios. Lots of friendly folks down that way.

Rick

[RM260boy]

rick i can't wait to get back to florida were the weather is warm all year long. 2 cold (for me) winters have made me realize how much better it is for me (even with hurricanes).:)

[BrentRichards]

Arse?

I thought for a minute we had a Brit among us! (A real one, that is, not a 2nd generation wannabe like me)

[Daniel]

I thought for a minute we had a Brit among us! (A real one, that is, not a 2nd generation wannabe like me)


Me ! Me! Me! :wave: :wave: :wave:

Drinking tea as I write....dreaming of English Country Houses, chinz, Maurice, Brideshead and World of Interiors.

[BrentRichards]

And, I'm no Hebrew scholar, but I'm going to go ahead and give myself the pleasure of answering BEFORE Andy, though probably not BETTER than him.

Actually, my answer isn't much of an answer, just another observation.

ish/isha are, in my limited understanding, relatively generic. They are the words used in the Creation account, for example. However, the Levitical prohibitions mix the words, using both ish and zakur (in Lev. 20, Lev. 18 uses only zakur):

A man (ish) who lies with a man (zakur) as one lies with a woman (isha)...

You are right to observe that this juxtaposition is intriguing, but I'm not prepared to make much of it without some convincing ... the formula "If a man (ish)" begins most of the verses in the context. My first assumption would be that it was merely a literary style choice, with the switch to zakur perhaps hearkening back to the language of Chapter 18.

However, it is zakur that seems to have passed into the rabbinic tradition ... a fragment of the prohibition "mishkav zakur" (the lyings of a man) or "mishkav bzakur" (lying with a man) seem to have become virtually theological technical terms to refer to whatever practice is in view here. For a nice non-technical discussion of this, Robin Scroggs is worth a read (actually, he's well worth a read! His focus is NT, "The New Testament and Homosexuality" --but he covers Leviticus and 1st century Judaism as background)

My very limited opinion. Andy is away for a few days, but should arrive shortly after return with the real story.

[RM260boy]

I thought for a minute we had a Brit among us! (A real one, that is, not a 2nd generation wannabe like me)

no brent i would have to say that i am probably as far removed from the old countries as possible. my ancestors were here to greet my ancestors.:D

Me ! Me! Me! :wave: :wave: :wave:

Drinking tea as I write....dreaming of English Country Houses, chinz, Maurice, Brideshead and World of Interiors.

my thread daniel... my thread :rolleyes: :smashy: :smashy:

[BrentRichards]

Me ! Me! Me! :wave: :wave: :wave:

Drinking tea as I write....dreaming of English Country Houses, chinz, Maurice, Brideshead and World of Interiors.

Not, STRICTLY, an ANGLOphile ... my family is Welsh, so genetically we're supposed to dislike the English. I can't seem to do that though, but I do make a point of using the term BRITISH whenever possible (as if anyone reads that and thinks, "Oh, Brittain ... that's Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and ... what's the other one?"

I think Maurice (prounounced "Morris" for you non-Brits) may have been one of the first gay-themed films I ever allowed myself to see. Ah, memories. But, I'll take a South London accent over a posh upper-class any day. (Don't get me started on the sing song accent of my own Welsh people ... they call their language "Iath y nefoedd" -the language of heaven.")

[RM260boy]

Actually, my answer isn't much of an answer, just another observation.

ish/isha are, in my limited understanding, relatively generic. They are the words used in the Creation account, for example. However, the Levitical prohibitions mix the words, using both ish and zakur (in Lev. 20, Lev. 18 uses only zakur):

A man (ish) who lies with a man (zakur) as one lies with a woman (isha)...



thanks i am looking up scroggs
Not, STRICTLY, an ANGLOphile ... my family is Welsh, so genetically we're supposed to dislike the English. I can't seem to do that though, but I do make a point of using the term BRITISH whenever possible (as if anyone reads that and thinks, "Oh, Brittain ... that's Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and ... what's the other one?"

I think Maurice (prounounced "Morris" for you non-Brits) may have been one of the first gay-themed films I ever allowed myself to see. Ah, memories. But, I'll take a South London accent over a posh upper-class any day. (Don't get me started on the sing song accent of my own Welsh people ... they call their language "Iath y nefoedd" -the language of heaven.")

i'm from kentucky we are the only people who don't have accents:lol:

[BrentRichards]

i'm from kentucky we are the only people who don't have accents:lol:

Whatever gets you through the night

[Daniel]

my thread daniel... my thread :rolleyes: :smashy: :smashy:

Keep your bloody thread! :'( :running:

:love: :love: :love:

[RM260boy]

sorry daniel, pls come back:dove: , i'm too mean spirited for my own good :(

[Zerbie]

tks antonyh, i didn't find one but has anyone ever done a thread on the importance of words... how they are used, translated mistranslated, as weapons or as comforts?

Weird. I nearly started a thread called "the importance of words" this past week - and didn't because I have to write a term paper (which I really should be doing right NOW, note to self, go WRITE!).

[RM260boy]

zerbie you must be what made me decide to join:)

[Rick336]

Drinking tea as I write....dreaming of English Country Houses, chinz, Maurice, Brideshead and World of Interiors.

Are you talking about the movie Maurice? I haven't thought about that movie in years but I remember how much I enjoyed it when I first saw it. I think I'll go to Blockbuster this afternoon and see if I can find it and watch it tonight.

Another one I haven't seen in years is Torch Song Trilogy. That's another good one from the 80s.

Rick

[Pablo Rafael]

I'm glad you decided to stop lurking and join the party. You have probably noticed that the 40-55 year old guys are the most troublesome demographic group in these forums; there seems to be a lot of horsing around in this group. (Second childhoods I think.) Just thought I'd better warn you. (Or maybe it is just that we are the cool group that everyone else tries to imitate. ) :cool:
Whatever it is, I'm glad to have you here.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[RM260boy]

thank you pablo. at 44 i am already nearing the end of my 3rd childhood:D

[andrewlittle]

I copied the posts about iysh, ishah, etc to a new thread in Faith & Non-Violence. I chose there because it's a Bible topic, and other people might be interested. I'll call it "Bible Words", if that's okay. We can take wherever it would like to be taken.

Andy

[RM260boy]

thank you very much:)

[Daniel]

Are you talking about the movie Maurice? I haven't thought about that movie in years but I remember how much I enjoyed it when I first saw it. I think I'll go to Blockbuster this afternoon and see if I can find it and watch it tonight.


Yes. I have a DVD of it and actually watched it last week. Made a post about it here:

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showpost.php?p=15631&postcount=13

Seeing the movie when it first came out (ha!) was a big moment in my life. Showed me what life could be. Men could be in love with each other and be happy. That's the power of art for ya.

Came upon the novel this past year at a sidewalk book seller along with a bio of E. M. Forster. (E.M. Forster and his world, Francis King, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1978) Forster also wrote Where Angels Fear to Tread, Howards End, A Room With A View as well as A Passage to India, all which have been made into films.

Apologies to Rufus....

[Freespirited]

hello,
my name is rufus, i have been watching the threads for a couple of weeks now and because of the passion and conviction that i have seen expressed here i have decided that i will try to add to the conversations. although i must say that you folks have set the bar pretty high (not a fan of chin-ups).
i am currently in and from Ky (go cats), however i prefer to be and will return to Fl as soon as i am able to. i lived in orlando from 89-05 woking for the mouse. prior to that i was in the service from 80-89 as a russian linguist.


I agree buddy! this website seems to have more zesty and passionate participantions as well as participants! I hope you stay! enjoy the ride!!


Welcome!

LEANDRO

[RM260boy]

i am trying to learn to keep my seatbelt fastened. but
WOW it is fulfilling!:D :weee: :aparty: :rofl: :laughing: :smashy: :cookie: :applause: :reading: