God uses weather in judgment???

[sjbouza]

This is a link to a MySpace Blog of a wonderful (cough cough) person that I have had the pleasure of dealing with several times on MySpace. She is a very homophobic person and uses the literal interpretation of what the Bible has to say on EVERYTHING. I am up for some help from you all on this one. Please listen to the little video, below it is the written text of what the video has to say.


God Uses Weather In Judgment (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=86919043&blogID=254118243&Mytoken=1BBFD9FE-931F-4E23-883B0770AD7C9DC411338765)

Just would like some input from others here. I have come to value all of your opinions very much. So any help you can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

[lydiam]

Hmmm... there are so many layers to get through before this woman and I would be able to have a conversation about God using weather in judgement. Our concepts of God, our concepts of judgement, they way we interpret the Bible...
So... brainstorming... although I have absolutely no problem believing there was a family that built an ark and were thereby safe during a flood-- I do not necessarily believe that the person who wrote the story down had total and divine understanding of the situation.

I believe the story of Noah describes several things:
1. Promise and hope... after the flood there a tree branch and a rainbow... and it says the rainbow is a promise never to flood the earth again... which if you are taking things literally, puts a hole in her argument, but I don't think she would take that as an answer. But, for me it's just a promise that God is still there when the storm passes.
2. As far as punishment goes, I don't actually believe God punished people with weather, I believe that those people UNDERSTOOD the weather as a punishment. But, in order to believe that, you have to get away from taking everything literally. The idea of a God that punishes evil seems like a very prechristian concept of God to me, but I know lots of people feel that way about God.

She also talks about Matthew 24. I do not see the Matthew text to be a message of judgement, but a pep talk. (Although it's a favorite of those who use fear.) I hear it saying, look- things are gonna get ugly, people are gonna be really mean to you, people are going to claim to have all the answers (that's where I think we're warned about people like this woman... who like to scare people) and it's gonna feel like the walls are closing in on you and the heavens are gonna drop out, but don't give up! You know my realm (aka kingdom) is everywhere (verse 27) and you are always living within it. Keep loving. Keep living.
This is just where I am in my understanding of it right now.

That said... I'm certain none of that would mean a thing to her, unless you have some kind of trusting relationship with her... I wonder what kind of encounters you've had with her before? Of course the only place to start is on common ground, so I'm just wondering if you've found any with her to open up a non-threatening conversation.

[Pablo Rafael]

Scott,

My opinion is that weather is generally weather and not a punishment from God. Natural disaters happen. Man-made disasters are much more devestating than natural disasters. Man-made disasters are caused by the evil choices of men; they are not the choice of God. I think that God can use weather or other events to steer people in a different direction. However, I think disaster is not what God prefers for mankind.

I probably would disagree with the person you refer to in a basic point. I do not think that God punishes people for the wrongs that they do. If that were the case, I know that I for one would be in the time-out corner most of the time. I feel that God corrects His people out of love to keep them going in ways that are beneficial for them. God's judgement is like a loving parent that uses punishment as a gentle tool to keep his children from situations that are dangerous to them.

As for the term "judgement", in John 3:17, "God did not send His Son into the world to judge the world but to save the world through Him." I believe that Christ's death and resurrection has removed judgement from His people, and all may live free from fear of punishment.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[scott snedeker]

whoops! she found us out! We gay people are sooooooo! powerful that we can anger God and through him destroy the world with a meteorological castrophony so immense that it can be heard far away in space!

We have discovered the secret that God is indeed as gullible and as petty as right-wing morons. The end is coming by our decree! If the world can't embrace us and love us then by exercising our free will to live and love openly we will trick him into destroying his creation so no one can enjoy it if we can't!!!!!!:eek:

As more gay couples legally tie the knot we are really just exercising our immense supernatural powers that straight folks are denied by the almighty.

One hailstone per gay orgasm
One hurricaine per 40 gay marriages
one earthqake per gay divorce!...... now those are really powerful:cool:

and so on....all we have to do is order-up!:D

wait! we are having a drought here in florida.... maybe 40 civil unions will bring a tropical storm, sort of a hurricaine light, all of the water without the destructive wind...and wait!....with coastline destruction we can scoop up great bargains afterward....yeah! then we can all go back in the closet and live happily ever after!

"Dorothy! Dorothy! wake up! It's your Autie Em!" violins playing
"Oh Auntie Em! I was having this incredible dream.....":lol:

[BrentRichards]

Um, yeah. Well, I've certainly seen worse. Even as a strict Calvinist (we're big on God being in control) I don't accept the idea that individual calamities are specific judgements from God. The most we can say, theologically, is that we live in a decaying world, that is NOT as God designed it, and, as such, sh*t happens. (That's in the original Greek.)

I don't disagree with the positive things she has to say about Jesus being our friend and our shelter. That's good ... and in fact, the idea of Jesus as the spiritual "ark" is quite orthodox. Many Christian thinkers make that parallel.

At the end, I doubt there's much you can say to change her mind. In my experience, most of these literalist folks don't listen well.

[sjbouza]

First of all, thank you all for your insight, it is much appreciated.

Lydiam,
No I have no common ground with her, I dont think anyone but herself has any common ground with her. You can point blank prove to her that she is wrong and she will just say that, "its the devil corrupting my interpretation." You are true none of anything would mean anything to her. Her heart is so hardened and she refuses to look beyond what she believes. Several people have, in the past, walked her through things and she just refuses to believe anything but what she says. She "speaks directly to God and He has told me (audibly) to bring the homosexuals to repentance." Yes I am serious, that is what she said in a post when asked where she gets her interpretations.


That said... I'm certain none of that would mean a thing to her, unless you have some kind of trusting relationship with her... I wonder what kind of encounters you've had with her before? Of course the only place to start is on common ground, so I'm just wondering if you've found any with her to open up a non-threatening conversation.


Pablo,

I really like this part. I never thought of it that way. Not saying I didnt like the rest of your post. However, this part really struck me and made me pause and take thought about what you were saying. I do believe the same. I am assuming that you mean that as we live on earth God "restrains" His judgment until our final day before Him. I dont know if restrains is a good word, but I think you get my meaning. Thank you for making me think. It hurt, but it helped too.

Scott,
As for the term "judgement", in John 3:17, "God did not send His Son into the world to judge the world but to save the world through Him." I believe that Christ's death and resurrection has removed judgement from His people, and all may live free from fear of punishment.

Brent.

Yes you, as well as Lydiam are both correct in your assumption that she will not listen to anyone but herself. I wont restate my point at the beginning, however, she has a special "link" to God and He speaks directly to her so she knows without a doubt that she is right. But when others say they have been led by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of a scripture, then it must be of the devil because it doesnt line up with her beliefs. Pretty much a crackpot if you ask me. He heart is hard and her mind is closed off to anything but herself.

Scotty,

Oh Scotty...Oh Scotty....Oh Scotty...that was GREAT!!! I havent laughed so hard in awhile. I needed that, thank you very much!!!! I especially loved the reference to "The Wizard of Oz". LM*@O. :rofl::rofl: However, sadly that is pretty much how she believes. BTW she isnt from this country, she lives in Britain or England, something like that. You do pose a very good point though even in jest. Again, thanks for the laugh it was VERY MUCH NEEDED!!!!!! So what do you think it would take for a giant meteoroid to strike the earth???? Just wondering so I know when to duck and run :eek:

[scott snedeker]

So what do you think it would take for a giant meteoroid to strike the earth???? Just wondering so I know when to duck and run :eek:


I think if Snagglepuss was caught with Elmer Fudd we had all better watch out!

[keltic63]

Matthew 5:45 (b?) For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

when I was young, a kid, I didn't understand this. I really thought of rain as being a bad thing. I didn't get why people would reference this verse, esp. the rain part, when they were talking about people we perceived as "sinners" getting some kind of reward. But I don't think this is exactly what Jesus meant. In context, Jesus references his Father, God, and to me, the verses seem to be saying the life-giving/sustaining system of rain and sunshine is for everyone, as is God's love! (and we need both, don't we?) To use this verse to refute the idea that God uses weather as judgment, I can almost hear Jesus saying "Stuff Happens!" *




*except maybe he would choose a different word for stuff! :lol:

[Dash]

From Luke 13--and in my opinion, the utter repudiation of the kind of thinking that says disaster represents particular judgment by God:

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

[keltic63]

From Luke 13--and in my opinion, the utter repudiation of the kind of thinking that says disaster represents particular judgment by God:

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Exactly! Stuff Happens!

[tdogg]

Dang, Scott. This person sounds like my aunt. :eek: Luckily, she doesn't try to contact me anymore. She made a valient effort to "save" me, but finally decided to spend her energy somewhere else. Eerily on the same page as the person you are dealing with.

[BrianB]

My mom took me to church where they believed you could influence the weather with your faith. Every time there was a tornado warning we would pray that it would miss our town. Of course, if it missed our town it would hit another town down the road. It appears we only had enough faith to spare one town. When I was growing up we also watched Pat Robertson and Jim Bakker on TV. Old Pat shouted many prayers at impending storms. Yes, the rain falls on the just and the unjust. I believe that now.