I Am In Dire Need

[andrewlittle]

As I said in the “Prayers” thread, Jenna and I have some very pressing issues facing us, not the least of which are joblessness and homelessness as of the end of June.

I am trying to remain faithful and optimistic while continuing to search for a church call and/or a non-profit position. I have only been searching nationwide since we realized in April that Jenna would not be staying in the United Methodist ministry due to the opposition and antagonism she has experienced in Iowa. The searches, deliberation processes, and calling processes take time, and time is running short.

I am not very adept at searching for and finding non-profit job openings in other states. While I don’t want to sound arrogant, I have never had to find a job since they have always found me. The church search is pretty much defined by my denomination, but the ways of finding non-profit job openings are many and varied.

Could I ask each of you to keep your ears and eyes open in your respective areas for non-profit openings in organizational or financial management or, even better, advocacy work in faith based organizations. If you have ideas on networking or internet resources for searching out non-profit jobs, that would be equally as helpful at this point in time.

Also, and this is very ballsy considering you only know me from what I write, would any of you consider writing letters of recommendation for me – reflecting on what you do know about me, how I think, how I process, and how I express my passions (or whatever else is pertinent)? Please consider this if you will.

I will keep you updated as this soap-opera continues to unfold.

[Zerbie]

Omigosh. What a frightening situation to be in. You are in my thoughts!

I'll certainly keep my ears peeled for any possibilities for you, especially if they are in Iowa, if I happen to hear of anything.

Meanwhile, I don't know if the kind of positions you'd be looking for might be scanning places like monster.com - I have a very weird set of qualifications, so non-traditional - but have had a couple interesting possibilities for myself pop up, and that was a few years back. I imagine the resource may have grown. There are probably others, too.

Who else can you ask? I'm sure there must be acquaintances you have in 3D who are favorably disposed towards your work who might also have suggestions (and letters of recommendation, which would be much more useful from someone who has met you face to face than from us) that might get you someplace.

:love::love::love::pray::pray::pray:

[tpdncr4christ]

I'm not sure I would be able to write a proffessional letter of rec, but I'm sure my prayers won't hurt. You just can't end up homeless, because then who would be there to bop me over the head when I say something ignorant? Sure other's could do so, but not with your style...

I'm praying for you and your wife, and I hope you two will get jobs and keep your house.:pray::pray::pray: :love::love::love: :pray::pray::pray:

[Daniel]

This has the making of big stress material. My heart and prayers go out to you.

How about this resource?

http://www.idealist.org/if/as/Find?sid=

[andrewlittle]

I hope you two will get jobs and keep your house.

Thanks, Austin. The house is a parsonage, so it goes with Jenna's job. We will have to leave it by the end of June.

That looks like a very good resource, Daniel. I am familiar with Idealist.org but never realized they had job listings. Duh.

[antonyh]

I would certainly be willing to write a letter of recommendation for you or provide a reference. Just let me know how I can help. I also wanted to let you know about this site for nonprofit jobs in Chicago:

http://www.npo.net/

[Daniel]

Ibid. Just say the word. ;)

[Sherrie Z]

Here's another resource for non-profit job listings ... best wishes, thoughts and prayers to you ... please keep us posted ...

www.opportunitynocs.org/

[BrianB]

Another resource for non-profit positions is http://national.unitedway.org/jobs/ United Ways jobs page

[dsdrane]

My thoughts, prayers and best wishes are with both of you!!

:love::love::cookie::love:

[ctozrn]

Andrew,

I work for a non profit Hospice organization. We are growing rapidly. Our Chaplain is retiring in July. The position is not listed on the website yet but the link is www.hospicegso.org

Greensboro is a great place to live! I am not sure if your wife is interested in being a hospice chaplain but it is a great organization! I work there as a RN and love it.

Good luck!
Christine

[antonyh]

Andy,

Another idea came to mind. I used to work for Stephen Ministries in St. Louis. If this is the kind of ministry you would be interested in working for, I would gladly call my former boss in Saint Louis and put in a good word for you. It will give me an excuse to touch base with him. Just let me know. Here is the Web site:

http://www.stephenministries.org/aboutus/default.cfm/737

They train churches in individual caregiving and in small group ministry.

Keep strong. Job hunting can be very challenging for the best of us.

Antony

[andrewlittle]

I have quickly checked into each of the links you provided, and will spend a good deal of tme over the next few days really exploring them. Thank you for your thoughts, prayers and ideas.

Andy

[keltic63]

I'm late to this thread. I wish I had a job lead to offer you, Andy. I will offer my prayers. I'd be happy to write that letter for you too.

Steve

[andrewlittle]

I would say numbness, but that is not true. My brain is numbed to logical processes, my thoughts scattered like dandelion seeds in the wind, my spirit crying within my chest like an abandoned baby. But I don’t have the luxury of giving in. I can’t walk away into a fog, disappear into nothingness from which to never return, because I care for someone who is perhaps more disillusioned, and in more need of physical and emotional care, than myself.

I have just been the witness and, while the adage that a witness to violence is also a victim is definitely true, I cannot claim the open wounds directly. I can see and feel and hear Jenna’s anguish at being betrayed and used as a pawn in a ruthless and unscrupulous game of power and position, but I have no place in which to express my own torment and feelings of utter devastation. I can simply watch as the powers she trusted – well, trusted certainly more than I ever did – slander, demean and abandon her as the source of a problem rather than a symptom of a sick and corrupt system.

I can only imagine as the pathological process occurs in which the leaders find some kind of ethical and Christian standing upon which to justify ruthless and inexcusable violence on their own. They are cannibals – worse, actually – they don’t even eat what they kill, just execute it to remove a momentary friction or to attain some expedient appeasement to a political irritant. They have unspeakable intercourse with those who will use the impetus to further dismantle Jesus’ ministry and turn it into a cult of power, prestige, position and personal profit. They are Cowards for Christ – too afraid of looking in the mirror introspectively, but just delusional enough to claim righteousness as they sell out their soul for temporal, political salvation.

The knowing is a burden – one that weighs heavy on heart and soul, crushing the will to be faithful and trusting, and flattening my spirit into a bitter, broken stain on the sidewalk of Fayette. Momentary fits of unrequited and unfocussed resolve end up revealing the real impotence that lies within. This is not my situation against which to rail. I just get to comfort the afflicted, but not afflict the comfortable. I get less of an opportunity to be heard and seen and vent my astonishment than even Jenna does, even though I have upheld my part of the “covenant” agreement so easily dismissed by the mighty.

The death knell of her ministry was sounded on the eve of major surgery – the opportunity to serve God ripped out of her far more easily, and with far less compassion, than her womb was taken from her body. The stress, anguish, agony and betrayal weigh massively over her body and psyche as it tries to find the healing presence of God. I carry it as much as possible for her, but it adds to the existing burden of pending homelessness and joblessness that will be the result of living into my promise to value Jenna’s appointment over my own search for a call.

Forty days – strange number that and quite telling – forty days notice that we will have no place to live, no way of earning money, no church to serve, and no religious hierarchy to trust. Forty days to heal, when the doctor says forty-two is the likely minimum. Forty days to pack up the remnants of your soul – those parts left after the unrestrained carnage, and insatiable greed for status quo, of your superiors. Forty days to pack up the remnants of your life, put them in a truck and take them to – hmmm, to where? To the church position I haven’t found because I have only looked locally in order to live into the promise I made to the UMC through Jenna? To where – an apartment in some unknown city that we can’t rent without a job and income? To where – a storage unit for our worldly possessions and a cheap motel room for our weary bodies?

And all for what – so that the bosses can weed out those who have a vision of the church as something relevant and vibrant and growing? So much better to envision a changing, growing, emerging, spiritually alive church coming out of the same self-serving actions, the same exclusionist attitudes and the same unholy alliances that are killing it in the first place. The stench of the rotting body of christ as envisioned by these power-mongers and idolaters threatens to overcome the sweet aroma of the living Body of Christ that can and will survive, anyway.

Crucifixion is still the favored weapon against those who stand against impotent, self-serving, unethical religiosity. It’s just that in this particular case, the cross has been replaced by the symbol of the UMC. Nonetheless, the corpse of the crucified will be hung on the symbol, and slandered and lied about, so that the unflective crowd can call it righteous. Ah, sweet delusion – such a gift for the mindless masses.

So, what am I feeling at this very moment – despair, devastation, the slipping away of the will to continue? I am the pack mule – my job is to carry her load while Jenna cannot. And carry it, I will. But at what price? I don’t know yet.

[Zerbie]

:pray::pray::pray::pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

:love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love::l ove:

(((((((((( Andy & Jenna ))))))))))

Is this an acceptable time to mention what Christ said about lilies?

(That always sounded trite to me when I was jobless and appeared to be without prospects. It will change.)

You are walking the narrow path indeed. You have, each of you, your integrity. Your soul. Your connection to God. You have each other and your SELVES.

(I know you are both in unbelievable pain. I didn't write what I did above to be trite, or to diminish the enormity of what you're going through, which is tremendous. But I would like to show you at this moment just how beautiful your souls are, because now is when you most need to know that.)

:dove:

[ladyinred]

It seems to me like your situation is critical and you need some leads and good resources fast. Here are some I came up with:
http://dmoz.org/Society/Organizations/Nonprofit_Resources/Employment/Executive_Search/

http://philanthropy.com/jobs/?gclid=CIe3hduotYwCFRAYgQodZl5NJA

http://www.astronomy-awards.org/HR/Hiring_and_keeping_employees/Search_Firms_for_Non_Profit_Sector.htm

http://www.uticapubliclibrary.org/non-profit/jobs.html

http://foundationcenter.org/getstarted/guides/job.html

http://philanthropy.com/jobs/?gclid=CL6ehqartYwCFROzgAodT1_uzA

http://www.therecruiternetwork.com/recruiter/?source=googlesf&gclid=CKLZhcurtYwCFRxWgQod-BesIQ

http://www.nonprofitjobs.org/

http://promotions.monster.com/keywordjobsearch/

http://www.onphilanthropy.com/site/PageServer

http://www.idealist.org/if/as/Job?sid=93677897-6-uGQ

http://www.idealist.org/en/about/history.html

Tell me if any of these leads help you.

[ladyinred]

All I did was type in the search engine- nonprofits hiring, there may be other ways to search and find leads as well. here is another one:
http://www.rileyguide.com/nonprof.html ( has a job directory) http://www.rileyguide.com/nonprof.html#jobs
now there are more listings but what I did was type in "leads to nonprofits hiring, resources. "

[ladyinred]

I do quite a bit of searching on the net and have for years, usually to help friends who needed help in emergencies to find resources, or to do research on things (last time was helping my brother find information on being an executor, since he was basically in charge of dealing with my mother's will and was in the dark about alot of things.) I helped him save about $4000.00 bucks in unnecessary lawyer's fees when he finally had the right information and who to talk to.

[andrewlittle]

Wow, Lady, what can I say. If I didn't have a long list of links to scour, I'd ask you to teach me some things about searching. Thank you ever so much,
Andy

[Vanessa White]

:pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:Andrew and Jenna: In spite of the UMC turning such an ugly attitude and face toward you both, I want to remind you of God's, and our, embrace of love around you. Andrew, your pain for yourself and your wife sounds almost insurmountable. Please take comfort in the beauty within you both, and in the thought that God will care for you, even though some of God's servants have not. You will be kept safe and close here, with your friends that will do all that we can to assist you, love you, support you, comfort you. My prayers and love are with you both, for recovery of all kinds that are necessary at this time....... :love::love::love::love::love::love::pray::pray:

Please, do not lose faith...... I believe that all will be as it should be for both of you.:pray::love:

[nmwolfboy]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Andrew & Jenna }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
i'm so late to this thread, but my thoughts & prayers are with you. i'm not aware of any stable sources of employment or housing, but i'll start checking about.

Having the rug pulled out from underneath with no visible safety net isn't fun - i've been there. New opportunities can come from unexpected places; hang on! i know it's tough on the nerves, gut and spirit. Especially when the uprooting stems from betrayal.

Reading through this thread, there are many who care and are praying for you. Please keep that in mind....

Love,
scott

[BrentRichards]

How about chaplaincy?

http://www.professionalchaplains.org/APC/professional-chaplain-services-jobs.aspx?TierSlicer1_TSMenuTargetID=12&TierSlicer1_TSMenuTargetType=4&TierSlicer1_TSMenuID=1

I've recently been looking at work in the corrections field, and I know I've seen some prison chaplaincy positions posted recently ... perhaps check your state civil service commission? (I think most states have a residency requirement for civil service jobs, so I'd check home state first.)

[tdogg]

Such quick and great advice and references! Andy & Jenna, I'm praying for you both. Not only for jobs and a home (very soon!), but for peace of mind, Christ's love to shower and envelope you both completely, and the love of each other to see you through it all. You are both stronger than you think, smarter than you know (well, I've only really heard from you Uncle Andy, but your wife MUST be smart to have chosen you!), and sweeter than even we think!

It's good that everyone has given you so many links to research. I don't have anything for you, but one would think there would be numerous opportunities in California. MCC church here in Sac I know has been searchcing for a pastor, but I'm not certain about what one has to be or do to get that job. I'll see what I can find or hear about around here. It's a long way from Iowa, but it's a beautiful state and one of the better places to be gay or be straight GLBT allies.

Press on Andrew, God will bless you greatly for taking your stand. You are doing the right thing, and it will pan out.

:love::love::pray::pray::love::love::love:

[scott snedeker]

Andy,

Perhaps this might be a sign to look in another direction. Many gay folks who have been cast out become pagans after having to look outside of the judeo-christian paradigm. Pagan spirituality brought me back to belief and wonder and self love.

I see the circumstance reversed. They [clerical hiearchy] are not worthy of you! Maybe you deserve a kinder, gentler, more compassionate group of people! I still can't forget the love that surrounded me on Short Mountain! My paradigm has been shifted into a new place that I carry with me whever I go!

[Progo35]

Hey, Andrew, I'll definitely keep you in prayer and let you know if I find out anything about positions around. I'll be praying for you! I've enjoyed our chats on the forums.

[Zerbie]

Hey Andy,

How you doin'? How is Jenna?

:pray::pray:

[andrewlittle]

Hey Andy,

How you doin'? How is Jenna?

:pray::pray:

And my next stop was here. Thanks for asking, Zerbie.

Where to start. Jenna, physically, is doing quite well. The emotional roller-coaster has taken some toll, but that is now over.

The Iowa UMC conference started Wednesday. After infrming Jenna that she was going to be dropped, they afforded her an opportunity for a hearing before bringing it to the floor of the clergy session Wed afternoon.

So she met with the "review" team, yet again. The last review team decided she had been treated unjustly and should be ordained. That was totally ignored, as was the original unanimous decision of her Interview Team. The Exec Committee of the Board of Ordained Ministry decided to can here.

Well, today's "review" at 11:00 was by the same Exec Committee. They reviewed their own previous actions themselves and - guess what - they decided they acted rightly. Wow! Who woulda thunkit. They were right, as well as the Bishop, and everyone else was wrong. As it turned out, this was the stoning before the crucifixion. They were miserable, I guess. Her mentor who accompanied her was dumbfounded and cried with her afterward.

The best part was the official reason for the termination - "you don't articulate your call to ministry well, which makes you ineffective."

Of course, then they added, "If you fight this on the floor of the clergy session, we'll pull out all the stops. There have been a lot of accusations." She and her mentor were threatened - a threat that carried more weight with her mentor than Jenna, at that point.

Afterward, one person on the Exec Committee told her that in her record are two letters voicing suspicions about her being a "lesbian" and that we have a beard marriage. Today, in the session, they also removed several other female pastors for equally innocuous reasons. If you're female and UMC, Iowa is the geographic equivalent of the dark ages.

Jenna made the choice, since she was exhausted and in severe pain by the end of that meeting, to simply walk away. She is now a free agent.

Interestingly, before she left the building, another supporter came up to her and said, "I passed your name onto Church Within a Church (a Methodist breakaway) for Extraordinary Ordination. They are very interested. Do you want to talk to them?" She said, "Yes."

On the way home, we hollered, cried, swore and carried on. She's exhausted and sleeping right now, but we have decided this chapter had to close before we could see the other door God would open for us.

Next, deciding how we faithfully step into the next chapter.

[Daniel]

And I know it sounds trite, but when a door closes, another one opens. I would wager about a state away.....

Prays and Supplications.

:love::love::love::love::love::love::love:

[tpdncr4christ]

Just so you know, I've got my church prayer circle praying for an Iowa couple of ministers who's church is being jerks... and we are United Methodists... I forgot to tell them you were too... ;)

[Vanessa White]

Andy and Jenna: What a brutal day for you. I just want to let you know how many of us will be walking through that open door when it appears, with you, at least in full spirit. Peace and love to you both, Vanessa :love::pray: PS I feel shame at being a member of the UMC at this moment, for the treatment of her and the witchhunt sounding type of treatment. It is so non- Christlike, it sickens me. :love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love::l ove::love::love::love::love::love:

[tdogg]

Andrew & Jenna

Doors are going to open for you. Soon. You are both too loving and too loved not to have them open. You know the Lord loves you and will find a way, right where you are supposed to be.

The events in our life are just steps we must take on our journey. You are taken some major steps in your journey and are on your way to the next stop-off. It should be a great one!

Stay strong and love each other in the Lord. You will be blessed. :love::love::love:

[keltic63]

Afterward, one person on the Exec Committee told her that in her record are two letters voicing suspicions about her being a "lesbian" and that we have a beard marriage. Today, in the session, they also removed several other female pastors for equally innocuous reasons. If you're female and UMC, Iowa is the geographic equivalent of the dark ages.



This really struck me! This is incredibly inappropriate and should not be happening in our churches today. Is there a way to request access to that file?

[BrentRichards]

Sigh. I'm so sorry, Andy. Praying for you.

[Progo35]

Andrew-the lesbian thing is totally obnoxious...THAT is something you could make a ruckus about...the church "suspecting" that your wife is a lesbian because she is pro gay rights. Ugggggh.

[andrewlittle]

Andrew-the lesbian thing is totally obnoxious...THAT is something you could make a ruckus about...the church "suspecting" that your wife is a lesbian because she is pro gay rights. Ugggggh.

The ruckus will occur, but it will wait until we can do it from a place of wanting to encourage change, rather than exert punishment. We have to let our angers cool, first.

We are both very literate people and, with the way they handled it, they have divested themselves of the control they could have exerted on Jenna to "keep her quiet". It will be a story to be told, but not until we can do it without the desire to punish.

As far as records go, the UMC maintains a "doctrinal" right to keep records secret. Courts won't hear the case for releasing information, generally, because "confidentiality" is written into the "Book of Discipline". Polity is one of my fortes, and I will find a loop-hole if one exists. That is a quest, however, for another time.

Now is the time for living into the future God will lay out before us. Living into that requires, I believe, setting aside the past for the time being and accepting "what is". We just pray that we are attentive enough to recognize opening doors, and faithful enough to walk through them.

[Zerbie]

The ruckus will occur, but it will wait until we can do it from a place of wanting to encourage change, rather than exert punishment. We have to let our angers cool, first.

We are both very literate people and, with the way they handled it, they have divested themselves of the control they could have exerted on Jenna to "keep her quiet". It will be a story to be told, but not until we can do it without the desire to punish.

As far as records go, the UMC maintains a "doctrinal" right to keep records secret. Courts won't hear the case for releasing information, generally, because "confidentiality" is written into the "Book of Discipline". Polity is one of my fortes, and I will find a loop-hole if one exists. That is a quest, however, for another time.

Now is the time for living into the future God will lay out before us. Living into that requires, I believe, setting aside the past for the time being and accepting "what is". We just pray that we are attentive enough to recognize opening doors, and faithful enough to walk through them.

Totally makes sense. This sounds absolutely right. I'm so glad that another opportunity is out there, knocking. Good grief, those were jerks! At some future point if not already, you & Jenna will be glad she didn't end up immersed in that environment for years, dealing with their idiocy.

When you're ready, you should totally follow up with the lesbian "accusations' and the crap about a beard marriage. That is a way of putting down gays, lesbians, and heterosexuals with conscience and it speaks VOLUMES about the lack of ethical integrity by that entire executive board. Anyone with integrity will want to be aware of the BS those execs are pushing. It's unconscionable behavior. And it's pure ignorance as well. Good riddance.

[scott snedeker]

Do you think communicating with Mel White might be worthy?

You have demonstrated unmeasurable value here!

[u-dog]

Do you think communicating with Mel White might be worthy?

You have demonstrated immeasurable value here!


Andy my brother! I already knew some of the potential horror of this convention but somehow that doesn't make it an more bearable to read! That convention should just close up shop because guess what? Jesus has left the building!

I pray for you and Jenna (not to the porcelain goddes -- though I'm seeing a lot of her today:sick:) but to the living God who hates injustice more than we do. We love you more than you can know! and Jenna whom we have never met also.

That "beard marriage" bullshit makes me the maddest of all (for obvious reasons) My Mixed Orientation Marriage would be considered a "beard" by some but is more real than MANY of the straight marriages I have been inside of over the years. Yours with Jenna??? Shit! there is just nothing to say. When the church allows itself to be guided by secret hate-mail... it is just DONE BEING THE CHURCH !!!

I think Scott's idea to talk with Mel is a good one. Even if you are not ready to move right now, he would be a good one to advise you and console you.

[High squeaky voice] "You should talk to the Wizard! He'll know! Follow the Yellow Brick Road!" :sing: "we're... OFF to see the wizard....":sing:

Dave

[Zerbie]

Andy my brother! I already knew some of the potential horror of this convention but somehow that doesn't make it an more bearable to read! That convention should just close up shop because guess what? Jesus has left the building!

I pray for you and Jenna (not to the porcelain goddes -- though I'm seeing a lot of her today:sick:)


Omigosh Dave are you okay? Are you having stomach illness? :pray:

That "beard marriage" bullshit makes me the maddest of all (for obvious reasons) My Mixed Orientation Marriage would be considered a "beard" by some but is more real than MANY of the straight marriages I have been inside of over the years. Yours with Jenna??? Shit! there is just nothing to say. When the church allows itself to be guided by secret hate-mail... it is just DONE BEING THE CHURCH !!!


Dave

Totally. Well said. Bravo.

[andrewlittle]

Thanks for the thoughts - and Scotty's suggestion of talking with Mel. I have only communicated with Mel once, and that several months ago about a written piece I did. He very kindly responded and really engaged in a conversation about it with me, which I appreciated immensely.

I must say, however, that I feel quite awkward about contacting him again, especially about this issue. Maybe, it's just that it feels more "needy" than I am comfortable with (strange coming from someone who would start a thread about being in dire need, huh). Maybe, in my head, I turned Mel into the "wizard" that Dave talked about. I will give some thought about approaching Mel.

In the meantime, it’s time to live into the future. I could use a sage ear – do you mind? We are in need of determining how we live into the time when God will open another door. We firmly believe, now, that this one had to be well and truly closed, before that would happen.

As of the end of the month, as far as we know, we have to move somewhere. The question is to where. We know without a doubt there will be no assistance with moving expenses.

We can play it safe and move close by to a bigger city/town because it would be a cheaper move. Long term, however, there is no doubt we don’t want to be here – or even in the central Midwest for that matter (Minneapolis or Chicago areas notwithstanding, but nothing has come from those contacts, either). I have gotten the most response from presbyteries in the East. There’s nothing even remotely approaching a call, of course, but at least some response. There has been little to no response from Ohio, and I don’t feel drawn to Ohio anymore. East coast is the general area Jenna and I feel that we would like most to live. The future is yet to open up, but decisions need to be made, anyway.

The bottom line is that we could exist on credit alone for two to three months. We could live on one or two temporary incomes for a little longer period of time. We will not, however, financially survive (without bankruptcy) without finding permanent, full-time employment within the first six months or so. We have had no choice but to stretch our credit during the time I couldn't find employment in "Podunk".

Staying close will limit short-term expenses, but at the likely expense of limiting long-term prospects. Going full East increases short-term expenses (as things like rent are more expensive), but would probably open up possibilities more quickly. Somewhere in between seems – well, like somewhere in between – not really anywhere at all.

Give me some feedback, if you will. Random thoughts are welcome. I am also going to see if I can change the name of this thread to something less - well, less pathetic. (Maybe a moderator can help with that.) Damn, I must have been down when I titled it "I am in dire need". Oyveh.

[u-dog]

We aren't gonna change the name of the Thread to something more macho! don't be a nitwit! You WERE in dire need. You NEEDED your friends. You asked for your friends support. You got it. All of this is as it should be. Nothing pathetic about it !!!

Get off this macho bullshit RIGHT NOW or someone will have to slap you.

only your friends will tell you when you are being a jerk.

Consider yourself told

we love you

Dave

[ladyinred]

I would definitely go with a definite offer or perhaps use the phone to talk to those who seem to be interested in you, it might save time and money. My now ex partner used the phone to do job interviews , she would arrange it with the companies that sought her out and they agreed to interview her over the phone,the only time she travelled to another state for a job interview was after she talked on the phone and they expressed a definite interest in her. The first time we moved to Oklahoma , we stayed with a friend for a little over a month,and just helped out with expenses like food, and utility and gas, so she wouldn't be put out or overwhelmed.(I'd buy most of the groceries and cook meals.We helped paid for the utilities since her electric and water bill was higher as a result of us staying there.)

I don't know how much that helps, but it might save you time from having to travel and doing those types of interviews. Tough situation for you to be in. Moving can be expensive, we just loaded up the U-haul had neighbors help us pack and put what we couldn't take in storage and had a huge garage sale, to get rid of the "excess" baggage we didn't need.(also the garage sell helped pay for the moving expenses) When I was married and we moved to Dallas, we just packed our clothes and a few belongings and small stuff like cookware, and moved into an efficiency apartment and bought the furniture later.

[ladyinred]

Also is there a chance you or your wife could take a temporary job until you find what you needed and wanted? Perhaps it might not be up your alley, but it might keep you from going into the poor house.My ex went to the employment agency and found temp jobs until she could find a fulltime job position.

[ladyinred]

I don't even know if anyone has mentioned this but what about checking into United Way or other similar orgs to see if they are hiring or community based centers that provide outreach to people in their communities or even Government sponsored programs.

[ladyinred]

Oh and you are not pathetic just going through a very difficult and trying time. Here is something else I found: http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=community&kw=community+jobs&sid=googSRCHTitleTier2+jobs&gclid=CP_uzJeyzIwCFSRvSgodhWy3Xg Here is another website for Christian hiring...http://www.crosssearch.com/Business_and_Finance/Jobs_and_Careers/ this has several references and websites for hiring in churches and ministries as well.

I've had been through similar with the moving, relocating, trying to find a new job, loss of finances..... That's alot to go through, it doesn't make the transition period easy.The dry spells where there doesn't seem to be the offers make it even more difficult.

[ladyinred]

This has a database of gay welcoming churches ,city to city , state to state, you might be able to locate a few to see if they are hiring.http://www.welcomingchurches.com/ Chicago alone had over thirty, from methodist ,catholic, and baptist,lutheran, presbyterian and others... one methodist church had a predominately LGBT congregation that I checked out.There is even a gay affirming MCC Church in Denton not too far from me. I was surprised , I thought they had a few Churches around Dallas but I found quite a few. I forgot to mention they include addresses,phone numbers and email addys.Ok, another link:http://www.churchstaffing.com/html/miscellaneous/get_started_job_seeker.htm

[andrewlittle]

I really appreciate your help and advice.

Our conundrum is that we absolutely have to move somewhere. We WILL be packing up a truck. The question comes down to "where" do we take it.

The parsonage we are living in goes with the job that Jenna will no longer have come the end of the month. It seems that, since we will be packing up and getting out, we may as well move to an area where there are actually jobs to be had, and where we would want to live - even if just for the short-run. If we are in a more populous area, the opportunities for temporary work are also more likely.

Our working assumption is that, absent finding jobs soon enough, we will need to file some kind of bankruptcy in the long run. That doesn't raise the emotional issues it would have even just a few days ago. If that's what needs to be - then okay.

If things can fall into place before that is necessary, then two average incomes will mitigate that need and allow us to pay down our debt. We really live quite simply, anyway, so we're not looking for big earnings.

As many people have pointed out, the course of events up to now all point to major changes happening in our lives and ministries. We are trying to look ahead faithfully and set aside the comforts of security and control to allow God to work through the situation with us.

Anyway, thanks again for your help. God bless you.

[ladyinred]

Yep i found another one, and will continue to list more if I find them...http://www.churchjobs.net/?source=google Thanks. My thoughts, the more sources and leads you have the more chances of finding what you want...It is just getting the sources ,leads and connections... You might find your new happy home with a LGBT affirming church where people would appreciate you and really need you. I can't tell you what God plans for you, but when he needs his children to serve,I'm sure doors will open. Anyway Godspeed to you and good luck.

[ladyinred]

For some strange reason I have almost a dogged tenacity to help people. Perhaps going through alot of hard knocks in life,I know all too well what it is like. It also helps me connect with other people and their problems, and identify with something larger than myself. Perhaps it gives a sense of purpose and meaning to my own life... I was that way with my mother when she had cancer and my friends who were going through some really terrible times, even casual aquaintances who were almost about to be evicted from their home... I actually had to muster up the courage to knock on the door to give them a list of agencies I found that I thought could help them, but the woman was crying so hard the day she told me she was scared she was about to become homeless, they were older in their sixties. Didn't know where to turn, as is often the case.

[Progo35]

Innocent progo 35 must ask-what's a beard marriage?

[Progo35]

Just a thought-there are two churches that I know of-Community Covenant Church and a United Methodist church in MA-who are very accepting of the gay community, one of them, i think the methodist one, even runs a counseling center that among other things, deals with LGBT issues in a positive way.

[andrewlittle]

Innocent progo 35 must ask-what's a beard marriage?

... it was new to me, too.

A beard marriage is basically a "cover-up" in which one or both of the husband and spouse is GLBT, and the marriage is used to disguise that fact. This does not include, BTW, marriages in which one or both are GLBT, but in which the partnership is a true marriage in all respects.

The beard signifies a "disguise".

[Vanessa White]

Andy and Jenna: Even though NE PA is sometimes not so desirable to the people whom have lived here all of their lives, it is quite cost-effective to obtain rental housing, and the job market seems to be picking up in general. I don't know off hand if there are any churches looking to fill positions, but it is a thought. Cost of living is not so bad here either, compared to places near to large cities. And, we are almost equally in between Manhattan and Philadelphia, about two hours and change to each from Scranton area. Let me know if I can check out anything here more specific if you are interested..... :love::pray:

[u-dog]

Andy and Jenna: Even though NE PA is sometimes not so desirable to the people whom have lived here all of their lives, it is quite cost-effective to obtain rental housing, and the job market seems to be picking up in general. I don't know off hand if there are any churches looking to fill positions, but it is a thought. Cost of living is not so bad here either, compared to places near to large cities. And, we are almost equally in between Manhattan and Philadelphia, about two hours and change to each from Scranton area. Let me know if I can check out anything here more specific if you are interested..... :love::pray:

And Presbyterian Churches are thicker than thick in that part of the country.

[andrewlittle]

But, anyhoo, there are little glimmers of activity starting to happen on the church front. Daniel will know what I mean when I say, "thank you, oh seer of things unseen."

So far, the interest (slight as it might be) is coming from the states of Delaware and Rhode Island, Richmond Virginia and the Albany/Schenectady area of NY.

Any feedback on the attitudes/cultures of these places? These are just very, very remote possibilities, at this point, but we're taking them as yet more affirmations of "Head East".

We will also be looking for a "temporary base" in which we can leave relatively cheaply and find temporary work until the dust settles. I heard the suggestion of NE Penn. Are there others?

Jenna, BTW, is doing well - and she seems like a great weight has been taken from her shoulders.

[BrentRichards]

And Presbyterian Churches are thicker than thick in that part of the country.

Hey! I could take that 2 ways!

[BrentRichards]

But, anyhoo, there are little glimmers of activity starting to happen on the church front. Daniel will know what I mean when I say, "thank you, oh seer of things unseen."

So far, the interest (slight as it might be) is coming from the states of Delaware and Rhode Island, Richmond Virginia and the Albany/Schenectady area of NY.

Any feedback on the attitudes/cultures of these places? These are just very, very remote possibilities, at this point, but we're taking them as yet more affirmations of "Head East".

We will also be looking for a "temporary base" in which we can leave relatively cheaply and find temporary work until the dust settles. I heard the suggestion of NE Penn. Are there others?

Jenna, BTW, is doing well - and she seems like a great weight has been taken from her shoulders.

Served a PCUSA Church in RI ... there are 4 (maybe 5, I forget). As I remember, all but one of them (First Providence) are Presbyterian Layman type churches. Worshiping in most of them, you might think you were in a typical independent evangelical church, not a PCUSA.

First Providence is a More Light church, and is therefore the "ugly redheaded stepchild" of the state. However, RI is part of the Presbytery of Southern New England (RI, CT, and part of MA), which is largely affirming, though not without controversy, much of it brought to the table by the RI churches. Needless to say, I served with one of the non-affirming churches in RI back then, and we continuously lamented our standing in our "liberal" presbytery.

If memory serves (and often it doesn't) Providence First was originally a very affluent church, but is now situated in a pretty typical urban setting. They have the opportunity to be a neat urban church with a lot of racial and cultural diversity, but I don't think they've managed that. Of course, this was 7 years ago, minimum, that I've had any contact, so could be quite different. It could be an exciting opportunity. I don't know what their financial status is like, in terms of supporting their pastor, but PSNE is generally very supportive of congregations in need in that way.

In New England, Rhode Island especially, Protestants are very much the minority. If you wear clericals, you WILL be called "Father" everywhere you go. Even if you don't, when people know you're a minister, they may call you that, and refer to you as a "priest." Cost of living in New England is NOT cheap, though there are certainly worse areas.

Delaware is a nice little state, with some fairly progressive attitudes -they're working on some non-discrimination/hate crime laws that are pretty progressive, and are looking like they have a pretty good chance. Don't know the PCUSA there at all, sorry.

[BrentRichards]

Providence as a city is very progressive, and has a large gay sub-culture (so naturally, I was closeted while living there). Providence and surrounding communities have a tremendous Italian-American population, which made me feel right at home, as I grew up in a very Italian town. The restaurants and bakeries are out of this world, and if you get invited to a holiday celebration in a traditional Italian home, GO! Wow. (But don't read the diet and fitness thread before you go ... party poopers!)

[ladyinred]

I imagine things will be turning around for you soon Andrew and I hope your wife is doing ok, but perhaps what seems like adverserial situation is really a blessing in disguise and may have been an indication to move onto "greener pastures" so to speak. Sometimes it is hard to see the silver lining amidst the clouds , but things for me always have a way of working out. But those lessons and hard knocks and low points taught me many many things about life , survival and who your true friends are.

My ex partner was my and is still my true friend and ally even in the most difficult times. When my mother was in the hospital and she had to go to work at 8:30 in the morning, she went up to the hospital at 3 am to make sure my mom would get an injection to help her breathe, I was home asleep, and she had told them to call her in case of an emergency ,because I was exhausted and mentally and emotionally drained from having to deal with the fact my mother was dying and had to be put on a vent.

She helped me through alot of other things , too numerous to count. She also taught me about giving as well,because she did so with all her heart and unconditionally.

In these times you know you have your friends too, the people who will stand behind you and support you and try to help in whatever way they can. I am really confident you and your wife will find the means and way to find a sustainable way to live.I am also confident you will move onto better things, and will it turn out to be your "blessing in disguise." I guess faith is the substance of things hoped for,but I have faith that things will work out for you and your wife. God bless.

[andrewlittle]

Friends are great, aren't they? Even "enemies" can be interesting.

Jenna and I are looking forward to a new adventure - one that leads to points east. I must admit that, because of physical limitations, I was not looking forward to loading and packing a U-Haul.

The Iowa UMC has found it in their hearts, even though their policy is to not pay for a pastor's last move (especially a defrocked pastor), to pay for the cost of a move within Iowa. I'm no idiot - they want to make sure we get the hell out of the parsonage so the new minister, who is meeting with the church tonight (good thing that wasn't set up ahead of time, eh, since it normally takes a month or two to figure out the pastor moves), can move in. What the hell - I'll use it. If their conscience or pragmatism makes them want to pay for the basic move, we'll gladly accept it and pay for the mileage to somewhere other than here - it will be less than a one-way U-Haul anyway.

Our dearest friend in Ohio has a four car garage that he has offered to vacate for storage. So we'll move our stuff into his garage and then seek out the next step. We will, of course, take a few days to visit, which is always a thrill.

Another friend in Vermont has been working in D.C. for two weeks of every month, and that is going to increase to 3 out of every month. So we have a temporary place in rural Vermont for respite and reconnoitering, if we want it. It won't be much for seeking out temporary work, but also would mitigate the need for that for a while if we just wanted to take a little time to heal. We'll see. I am more the kind for stepping right into the fray, but I have Jenna's recuperation to consider. I could free-load for that reason, if I need to.

Anyway, just wanted to write a note that is more positive than some others have been, and to say that over the next few weeks my presence here will be light and intermittent. There's all that nasty packing and sorting out to do. We are planning on travelling as light as possible, but with over 5000lbs of books (and that was at the last move - we bought a few more since) that is a little bit of fiction.

Thanks, again, for all your advice and care. Once we get settled somewhere, I will be back in full force. Just for now, you'll be getting a bit of a vacation as I'll only have time for occasional visits. That being said, if you need a caustic, know-it-all to come in and verbally maul someone who wants to cite chapter and verse to torment you, just PM me - I'll get the email that it will generate. Remember, don't leave me out if there's fun to be had.

Anyway, for now I'll just look forward to popping my head in once in a while over the next few weeks to say hi and see how you're doing.

Remember, I love you.

[antonyh]

Good luck on your move and job hunt. I had a lot of books after Seminary as well...but 5000 lbs...that's impressive!

[Vanessa White]

Be well, safe in your packing and journeying, and come around when you can Andrew. We will keep you both close in our thoughts........:love::pray:

[tdogg]

Take care Andrew. You and Jenna be safe, and keep in touch. Praying for you both, oh, and love you too! :love::pray::love:

[andrewlittle]

Here it is - the 10th of July. And oddly enough, the church in Iowa - First UMC in Fayette, Iowa - has yet to send Jenna's last paycheck or expense reimbursement check. I thought I would never be surprised again by the lack of ethics and scruples shown by this church, but I was wrong. This takes the cake.

I wanted to wait until I was no longer angry to write the article about this episode, but they are making that really, really difficult.

[u-dog]

Here it is - the 10th of July. And oddly enough, the church in Iowa - First UMC in Fayette, Iowa - has yet to send Jenna's last paycheck or expense reimbursement check. I thought I would never be surprised again by the lack of ethics and scruples shown by this church, but I was wrong. This takes the cake.

I wanted to wait until I was no longer angry to write the article about this episode, but they are making that really, really difficult.


Have you called them yet to ask what their intention is in regard to their legal obligation to her as a pastor? I DO hope that you will find the strength to pursue this through whatever channels are necessary. What an outrage!

If they end up stiffing her. Write a letter to the editor of the Fayette Weekly picayune and embarrass them.

[Progo35]

Yes, because you were employed at the church, the law could become involved in that.

[nmwolfboy]

Here's some info from the Iowa Labor office:

Question :
Does Iowa law address how often an employee should be paid?

Answer :
Yes. The Wage Payment Collection Law 91A.3(1) states: "An employer shall pay all wages due its employees, less any lawful deductions.... at least in monthly, semimonthly, or biweekly installments on regular paydays which are at consistent intervals from each other and which are designated in advance by the employer."

There is no Iowa law requiring an employer to pay you immediately or within a certain number of hours after you quit or get fired. The employer’s responsibility is to pay you on the regularly scheduled payday for when the wages were earned.

Not sure how applicable this might be in Jenna's case, but there are Iowa state legal requirements about paying employees. Basically, assuming (as you said in your post) that she was still owed compensation and reimbursement at the time of separation, it looks like she should have been issued a paycheck on whatever day would have been her next regularly scheduled payday.

Doesn't mean that employers (including churches) might not try to dodge their legal obligation, or at least their required timely compliance, but it does mean that Jenna can likely turn to the Iowa labor authorities to file a wage claim.

Here's some more:
Question :
My employer hasn’t paid me wages I believe I am owed. What can I do?

Answer :
If you believe you are owed wages, you can file a wage claim with the Iowa Division of Labor. You can download a Wage Claim Form at http://www.iowaworkforce.org/labor/wage.htm, or request a form be mailed to you by calling 1-800-562-4692. You also have the right to pursue your claim on your own behalf in court. If your claim has to do with federal minimum wage or overtime you may contact the U.S. Department of Labor, Wage & Hour offices at:

Des Moines (515) 284-4625
Cedar Rapids (319) 362-8074
Davenport (563) 324-2038
Sioux City (712) 252-2907
Waterloo (319) 233-2903

Pax,

scott

[wmanion]

Sorry it took so long to get to this thread. You are both in my thoughts and prayers.

Bill

[Jamie McDaniel]

An email today from the NGLTF listed some job openings. Of course, that is in DC where the cost of living is higher.

www.thetaskforce.org/about_us/employment