Question

[alakazoom87]

Does science exhaust knowledge?

[dsdrane]

Yes...the poor dear is all tuckered out and really needs her rest. :sleep:

Shhhhhhhh....

[scott snedeker]

Does science exhaust knowledge?

I understand knowlege as a term that describes our ability to comprehend gained from experience and teaching.

Science is a discipline of focussing thought in the following manner:

Hypothesis: a Question, Example : Can a common Earth soil bacterium survive on Mars?

Method: As closely as possible, recreate the same conditions on Mars and expose the bacterium to those conditions.

Results: Earth Soil bacteria grows in a culture after 72 hours of exposure to similar UV radiation, chemical composition, Gases, And temperature if and only if the bacteria is placed below the surface of the simulated soil

Conclusion: Earth Soil bacteria can Survive on Mars but only under the surface.

Btw that was my high school science fair project in 1982

Science expands and fuels knowledge. I cannot see how this method "exhausts Knowlege"

[nmwolfboy]

Does science exhaust knowledge?

No. :poke:

Pax :dove:
scott

[BrentRichards]

Check your definitions, Zoom boy. A question is intended to ilicit information that the asker doesn't have, as in "Hey, can you tell me how to get to the bus station from here?" I'm quite confident that you already have an answer to your question, and moreover, one that is not open to editing. What you've got there is a challenge --a "trap" laid in hopes that someone will say something you can refute, or use to support your position. Very different thing. But don't fret, it's a time-honored strategy:



Matthew 21:23Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. "By what authority are you doing these things?" they asked. "And who gave you this authority?"
24Jesus replied, "I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 25John's baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?"

They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Then why didn't you believe him?' 26But if we say, 'From men'—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet."

27So they answered Jesus, "We don't know."
Then he said, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things."

[alakazoom87]

Check your definitions, Zoom boy. A question is intended to ilicit information that the asker doesn't have, as in "Hey, can you tell me how to get to the bus station from here?" I'm quite confident that you already have an answer to your question, and moreover, one that is not open to editing. What you've got there is a challenge --a "trap" laid in hopes that someone will say something you can refute, or use to support your position. Very different thing. But don't fret, it's a time-honored strategy:

You are so defensive when you don't need to be. All I am doing is opening up a discussion. Relax, please, relax...

[tdogg]

Does science exhaust knowledge?

NO

Zoom, what is your opinion on this, and why (do you believe in your opinion)?

[Pablo Rafael]

I don't really understand the question. Are you questioning that some day science might find out all there is to know and we will come to an end in our search for knowledge?

I know that physicists wonder whether the Grand Unified Thoery will ever be discovered. That theory would merge all forces into one mathematical statement at which time all quest for the last theory of physics would cease.

Being very interested in Astronomy. I remember when the Voyager (and before them the Pioneer) spacecraft went to the outer planets. And the Mariner spacecrafts went to Mars. Before those voyages we thought the all the satellites of the outer planets would be cratered ice spheres. Instead there are erupting sulfur volcanos, ice covered oceans, nitrogen geysers, etc.

At a microscopic level it wasn't long ago that scientists discovered protons neutrons and electrons. We believed them the smallest building blocks of matter. Then quarks were discovered. Now we are discussing string theory.

I think that science is mankind's slow discovery of the wonders of God's creation. With each question we learn the answer to, we find more and more amazing questions. I believe that since God is infinite, that wonders of his creation are, if not infinite, far greater than we will ever uncover. All knowledge leads to more questions and more knowledge.

Isn't learning an AWESOME thing?

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[alakazoom87]

I think that science is mankind's slow discovery of the wonders of God's creation. With each question we learn the answer to, we find more and more amazing questions. I believe that since God is infinite, that wonders of his creation are, if not infinite, far greater than we will ever uncover. All knowledge leads to more questions and more knowledge.


I totally agree!

Basically, the point of this question is really directed to those who have placed science on a pedestal. Can science answer questions like:

What is justice?
What are moral values?

Or rather, if science exhausts knowledge, can science explain free will and humans having equal rights.

[Daniel]

How about placing 'God' on a pedestal?

At least the scientist is trained to question his/her own thinking.


ped·es·tal
n.
1. An architectural support or base, as for a column or statue.
2. A support or foundation.
3. A position of high regard or adoration.

But perhaps you think God is the pedestal.....that would explain things.

[tpdncr4christ]

leave alakazoom alone... :poke: just because it looks like he pulled a knife out doesn't mean he's going to jab, he could very well be carving the turkey of the pursuit of knowledge (it's too early in the morning to come up with complex metaphors).

And about science exauhsting knowledge:

Science is just magic with rules. And rules exauhst everything.

[Zerbie]

I totally agree!

Basically, the point of this question is really directed to those who have placed science on a pedestal. Can science answer questions like:

What is justice?
What are moral values?

Or rather, if science exhausts knowledge, can science explain free will and humans having equal rights.

The questions above are outside the realm of science. Unless perhaps they may belong to that arena of discussion known as "social science," but I don't think that's the kind of science you were asking about, nor have I any expertise in the social sciences.

Who places science on a pedestal? It's a system of learning, that's all.

[alakazoom87]

I believe God created this universe. Which means, God was the one who came up with science in the first place. Science is another part of God's creation. Are we to worship the creation or the creator?

My point is simple, if all you take to be true are things that can only be explained by science. Well, you are not able to explain: humans having equal rights, free will, and many other things that we, as humans, take for granted.

The questions above are outside the realm of science.

Yep :)

[Daniel]

I believe God created this universe. Which means, God was the one who came up with science in the first place. Science is another part of God's creation. Are we to worship the creation or the creator?


God came up with science? That's an interesting thought. Does that mean that God came up with the atom bomb?

[Zerbie]

I believe God created this universe. Which means, God was the one who came up with science in the first place. Science is another part of God's creation. Are we to worship the creation or the creator?

My point is simple, if all you take to be true are things that can only be explained by science. Well, you are not able to explain: humans having equal rights, free will, and many other things that we, as humans, take for granted.



Yep :)

Me too. There are things science has not yet explained, and possibly never can. There is much beyond science, which is only a tool and a means of learning.

[Zerbie]

God came up with science? That's an interesting thought. Does that mean that God came up with the atom bomb?

We're responsible for that.

[Rick336]

Who places science on a pedestal? It's a system of learning, that's all.

Science is based on learning through proven evidence. As far as equal rights, evidence shows that humans live in a more rational enviornment when everyone is treated equally.

However, science has yet to find evidence of God. People believe in God through faith. Faith is basically believing in something with no credible evidence to back up that belief.

Many Christians have faith that God created the world in six days using the Bible as evidence. Science on the other hand believes the present universe was created in twelve billion years and has centuries of proven scientific research as evidence.

Benjamin Franklin said, "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

Rick

[BrentRichards]

You are so defensive when you don't need to be. All I am doing is opening up a discussion. Relax, please, relax...

Finger on the pulse of human nature once again ... obviously the problem here is my defensiveness, for which I have NO reason. Done wasting my time with you Zoom ... should have been done before I started. I know better. For the record, your evangelistic skills need a LOT of work.

[alakazoom87]

Finger on the pulse of human nature once again ... obviously the problem here is my defensiveness, for which I have NO reason. Done wasting my time with you Zoom ... should have been done before I started. I know better. For the record, your evangelistic skills need a LOT of work.


Instead of continuing on with the discussion you decide to attack my character. For the last time, all I am doing is discussing a topic: Does science exhaust knowledge? Do you only talk pleasently to people who agree with all of your beliefs? I thought you and I were both Christians. Why do you cause division by attacking my character instead of continuing on with the discussion?

You are allowing your emotions get in the way of the discussion. I am going to go ahead and formally ask you to either stop attacking my character and my convictions in Christianity or don't reply to my posts. Frankly, your not the only one who has been "offended" here. What is Proverbs 15:1 again?

P.S.

FYI, I have not attacked a single person's character yet while on this forum. I am going to ask to be given the same respect.

[Daniel]

I don't understand you at all. You are very angry or something. What is your problem? Should we start another thread for this topic: Why is Brent so angry? :lol:

Instead of continuing on with the discussion you decide to attack my character instead of what I stand for.

If you don't understand, why are you laughing?

[scott snedeker]

I totally agree!

Basically, the point of this question is really directed to those who have placed science on a pedestal. Can science answer questions like:

What is justice?
What are moral values?

Or rather, if science exhausts knowledge, can science explain free will and humans having equal rights.

This sentence (in red) is constructed by linking a premise "science exhausts knowlege" to a question "Can science explain free will and equal rights"

By linking the two any response to the question of yes or no commits the responder to accept the premise.

This is a sentence construction strategy used by lawyers called inference provocation. An example of this is as follows:

"Have you stopped screwing your dog yet?"

Whether the responder answers yes or no the erroneous inference is that you have been committing bestiality.

Ahh! but I think your question is one of Validity of Inerrancey of the Bible. Correct me if I am inaccurate.

Some scientific discoveries make clear that some biblical references if taken literally are in error.

Example: the World is not flat and older than a few thousand years.

But then does that mean that literally interpreting bible is always erroneous?

I think that this question provokes mortal the fear in people who have been taught that the punishment for not believing every literal word of the Bible is hellish eternal damnation. I believe then that it is natural for folks to become defensive with some "best defense is a good offense" strategy.

Does this mean also that no errors in conclusion are ever created using the scientific method?

Of course not.

Or the converse:

There are sometimes errors made in a conclusion using scientific method.

Does that mean all conclusions using scientific method are in error?

and the Bible is irrefutable every time?

I definitely don't think so. I don't think I would be typing on my computer right now if that were the case.

The original question worded "Does science exhaust knowlege" is I believe a disguise of the question:

"Do the discoveries gained by using the scientific method weaken [exhaust] people's belief in scripture [knowlege] By challenging biblical doctrine."

The answer, I believe, is often yes. Which threatens belief in the biblical spiritual paradigm causing unrest in those who have found emotional sanctuary in it. The assurance and wonder fade, replaced with uncertainty and disempowerment

Hence, I suspect, is the reason for using a defensive premise in the form of a question that villifies the "challenge" to this paradigm.

I believe that the paradigm each of us uses needs to evolve with the times.
and discoveries.

"It is a brave new world. And those of us who can't change will have the hardest time living in it."

[dewdrop_world]

Basically, the point of this question is really directed to those who have placed science on a pedestal. Can science answer questions like:

What is justice?
What are moral values?

Or rather, if science exhausts knowledge, can science explain free will and humans having equal rights.

The Hedgehog, the Fox, and the Magister's Pox: Mending the Gap Between Science and the Humanities by Stephen Jay Gould has some very interesting things to say about this.

Gould, no great fan of orthodoxy himself, would answer an emphatic NO to both of your questions. I find his argument generally convincing.

Science may inform the attempt to understand these questions, but it doesn't answer them without help from other disciplines.

James

[alakazoom87]

If you don't understand, why are you laughing?

I was still in the process of editing my post when you responded heh.

[nmwolfboy]

My point is simple, if all you take to be true are things that can only be explained by science. Well, you are not able to explain: humans having equal rights, free will, and many other things that we, as humans, take for granted.


Who specifically (here at SoulForce for instance) takes as true only things that can be explained by science? That's a pretty general statement, and i can't think of anyone here that likely takes that view, though it's certainly possible, since multiple perspectives aren't unusual at SF.

Personally i don't see science and faith as being mutually exclusive. Both can be useful for increasing understanding; tyranny by proponents of either can be destructive.

Pax,
scott

[BrentRichards]

Ok, I've gone for a walk and taken a few deep breaths. My blood pressure hovers at a textbook 120/80, and is coming back toward that mark. For now.

Yes, Zoom (I don't like calling people by screen names ... I saw your name here before ... is it Matthew?), I am angry. I'm very angry. I know I'm not the only one here... in my observation, we take turns having no patience with certain types of discussion on these forums.

At the moment, I am very angry indeed with the words and attitudes of a lot of people in the church who talk like you. You are, admittedly, taking the brunt of my anger at a lot of other people as well. My last few posts to you have been very sharp, yes ... and for a reason. I was hoping to get your attention. Have I?

It may be that you feel you're being attacked and persecuted here: certainly by me, and perhaps by others as well. If so, you now know how we feel in the church EVERY DAY OF OUR LIVES.

True confessions, I am making some assumptions about you based on your statements here, and if those assumptions are wrong, I'm sorry. But yes, I'm angry, and I'll be happy to tell you why.

I'm angry because people who talk like you assume that I'm the problem. They come to our forum, start arguments, and then act surprised when I take offense.

I'm angry because almost every day I deal with Christians, many of whom weren't even born when I came to faith, who assume that they are far more mature in the faith than I could possibly be. They assume that I must be ignorant of the Bible and Christian history, because if I knew what they knew, I'd obviously agree with them.

I'm angry because so many of my GLBT brothers and sisters (on this forum and elsewhere) have been told in no uncertain terms that they have no place in the body of Christ. They've taken the hint, and left the church, never looking back. But having been ushered unceremoniously out the door, they must still deal day after day with people telling them they're lost for leaving.

I'm angry when people begin their interactions with me on the assumption that I need to be witnessed to ... a statement that assumes I cannot be a Christian (your recent statement of us "both being Christians" notwithstanding). After all, they say (sometimes overtly and sometimes covertly), if I were REALLY a Christian (or really a Spirit-filled Christian, or really under Christ's Lordship, or ... choose your particular language) I wouldn't be gay, or believe what I believe.

I'm angry when people use God's Holy Word as a weapon to make me and others like me feel unwelcome at the foot of the cross, and then accuse me of being defensive when I disagree.

I'm angry when people (and I don't mean you here, I have no idea what kind of education you have) with a Sunday School level Bible and Theological education think they've got it all down pat, and are perfectly willing to dismiss dissenting scholarly viewpoints (on topics like the Biblical view of homosexuality) without so much as a moment's consideration, because they're "obviously" wrong.

I'm angry that my church is perfectly willing to accept my money, my voice in their choir, my time in service, my skills in teaching, and so on, but is NOT willing to offer me a voice in leadership, a place in the clergy, or a blessing for my (future, I hope) covenanted partnership.

I'm angry that the straight majority has the nerve to talk about "the dangers of the gay agenda" as if we were the ones in power opressing THEM.

I'm angry that Christians assume that I'm a pervert, promiscuous, and a danger to their children and families. I'm angry at being blamed for the downfall of a marriage institution in which I'm not even permitted to participate.

I'm angry that so many Christians continue to tell me and others like me "Jesus hates you, this I know."

I'm angry that to so many people who talk like you consider me an "issue" to discuss. This isn't an issue, this is my life --don't expect me to discuss it as dispassionately as if it were a grocery list.

I'm angry that so many Christians consider it blasphemous, or at least laughable, to say that God might actually have created me like this ... and that those same people shout loudly about God being in control, except of course when Him being in control would mean something they don't like.

I'm angry that you can call another member of this forum self-righteous, but when I call you on what I see as your self-righteous behavior, I'm attacking your character, and it's suddenly unacceptable.

I'm angry that you can laugh off my concerns and opinions, but I'm supposed to take you seriously.

As you know, Jesus got angry, and he cleared the Temple court ... the buyers and sellers there were taking up the space that was supposed to be used for worship by the outcasts and foreigners ... people who the religious of the day had no problem sweeping out the door ... after all, they have no real place here. I'm angry that we still don't seem to get the point.

You want me to stop talking to you? Happy to. In fact, if you read my last post, I already said I would. But if you want to know why I'm so angry, there it is. Talk to me like a person, not an issue, and we'll go on. Play games with ulterior motives (which you stated up front) and I'm not playing.

So yes, I'm angry. Very angry. I won't apologize for being angry. If I've directed any of this anger at you unjustly, I can certainly be sorry for that. But the fact is that you've talked just like all the other people who have treated me and others like me this way for too long. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm going to assume it's a duck. If you want me to respond differently to you, you'll have to start by talking differently to me. Evangelism begins with understanding. When it begins with statements that you disagree with "95%" of what we believe ... (translation, you are TOTALLY wrong about just about everything, and I'm here to straighten you out [pun apt, though not intended]), then you can't very well be surprised that I'm resistant to anything you might say next.

So maybe I have a reason or two to be angry.

[Daniel]

Thank you for your words. You speak truth.

[Zerbie]

My God. Brent! :'(

I'm sorry.

I know that post was not directed at me, but I read it and keep saying 'I'm sorry.'

In light of what you eloquently and so honestly shared above, your signature quote makes all the more impact.

I'm so glad you are with us on these forums. The things you've written have helped me, and I didn't tell you that before. Thank you for being here.
:love::love::love:

[Dash]

Right on, Brent! If I may add my signature to your Declaration, I'll sign as big as the sacred parchment will hold.

:award::love:

[alakazoom87]

You don't know me and have presumed much. However, I understand how you can be, in general, angry. But, the anger that you have given me comes from your past. In all of your reasons of why you are angry, which one of these am I part of?

All I have done is discussed, disagreed, and made my points. When have I ever said you guys are "going to hell" or you guys are "abominations" or you guys are "unsaved" or you guys "do not have the holy spirit?" I have not said anything of these things to you. So, why do you put me in the category of others?

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm going to assume it's a duck

I don't think I look like, swim like, or quack like the duck that you are speaking of. More over, I am not the duck you are speaking of. There has been alot of miscommunication happening here, possibly because we are speaking on a forum and you all you get to see from me are words, however basically, what I am saying is....


My name is Matthew, what is yours?

Other than that,

Let's get back to: does science exhaust knowledge?

[Daniel]

You don't know me and have presumed much. However, I understand how you can be, in general, angry. But, the anger that you have given me comes from your past. In all of your reasons of why you are angry, which one of these am I part of?

What are you now, a psychologist?

The man tells you how he feels about your interaction on this board and 3 others (and counting) agree with him and all you have say that is that it has nothing to do with you, is about the past, and we should all press on?

I don't think so.

If you are that deaf and blind to those who open themselves to you, God help you.

[Dash]

Matthew, your profile reads:

Biography:
I am a straight Christian being a witness to SoulForce

Your presence here is loaded with motive...a motive that is rightly questioned.

Do not dissemble or pretend that you are "just discussing and disagreeing." Your stated intent is to do more than just discuss.

[alakazoom87]

What are you now, a psychologist?

The man tells you how he feels about your interaction on this board and 3 others (and counting) agree with him and you all to say that is that it has nothing to do with you, is about the past, and we should all press on?

I don't think so.

If you are that deaf and blind to those who open themselves to you, God help you.

Whatever... guess I'm not welcome here then

I have come to discuss, make my points, and hopefully show you guys what I believe. It is up to you to agree with them or not. I won't shuv it down your throat... You know my intent, however, you have judged my character and my motives..

I am absolutely shocked that a person who does not believe that the Bible condons homosexuality is practically not allowed to speak at this forum without being judged and shuned.

[Daniel]

Whatever... guess I'm not welcome here then

You are welcome here. You are also welcome to reflect on things a bit more than you have already.

[Dash]

I have come to discuss, make my points, and hopefully show you guys what I believe. It is up to you to agree with them or not. I won't shuv it down your throat... You know my intent, however, you have judged my character and my motives..

Dude, we know what you believe. You are not sharing anything that is not quite clear to us.

Acknowledging the situation is not the same as judging you.

[Daniel]

Acknowledging the situation is not the same as judging you.

And while I ain't no psychologist myself, I do know that acknowledging another person's feelings is the first step in real communication. The Buddhists have a nice way of going about it. It entails saying 'thank you' when one is criticized. This gets both parties off the hook, diffusing the energy of the situation. Acknowledgement means taking the other person seriously, not blowing it off.

In plain English?

It's called MANNERS.

[andrewlittle]

My ass, Zoom. You are trying to mimic a long-standing approach to bad witnessing - and you are worse than most at it. You insult with almost every post, and then claim it wasn't intentional and you've been hurt. Poor baby.

From your public profile:
Biography: I am a straight Christian being a witness to SoulForce
The arrogance speaks for itself.

From your very first post:
I believe the Bible is the word of God and I take it for what it says and not for what I want it to say. http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showpost.php?p=30618&postcount=1
Implication – not very subtle either – that we here at SF take the Bible for what we want it to say.

Putting the fussing aside about whether or not being a homosexual Christian is an oxymoron or not (#1). Read the Bible for what it says, not what you want it to say (#2).
http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showpost.php?p=30619&postcount=1
(#1) Since there was no fussing going on, I can only assume that you have been the one doing the fussing. In case you’re wondering, it was this post that made me decide that you were here to attack – to do it with smarmy language so you can claim plausible deniability, yes – but smarmy none-the-less. “Plausible deniability” is a political tool to lash out sideways while keeping a smiling demeanor, and in a Christian makes me think that they have far more opinions than scruples.
(#2) Oh, now that’s a surprise. I never saw that coming.

I could go on and on with every one of your posts, but you are not really worth the time or the effort. You are not here to dialogue, you are here to pontificate about the rightness of your own opinions.

And everyone else, why do you keep answering him (yes, I know, I just did). I am putting him on "ignore". You can do the same, or keep bitching when he keeps doing the same thing. The latter doesn't seem very productive.

And, Uncle Stevie - you can smack me now or you can smack me later, but I have no doubt I just earned it.

[tpdncr4christ]

And, Uncle Stevie - you can smack me now or you can smack me later, but I have no doubt I just earned it.

Sometimes my teenage hormones make me a bit crazy, but good 'ol Uncle Andy is never afraid to tell me how it is, in a tough love kind of way. Zoomer... good luck. Don't try to convince these people of anything, cause they've heard it all before. The person you should be "witnessing" is me, the impreshinable one... the one who might actually listen to you. But it's ok, I trust my family here will protect me. :poke:

:D

[keltic63]

And, Uncle Stevie - you can smack me now or you can smack me later, but I have no doubt I just earned it.


That's the only part of your post that is gonna get your ass smacked!

[andrewlittle]

That's the only part of your post that is gonna get your ass smacked!

You wouldn't dare - you know I'd like it.

[BrentRichards]

Thanks, friends, I needed that.

[BrentRichards]

My God. Brent! :'(

I'm sorry.

I know that post was not directed at me, but I read it and keep saying 'I'm sorry.'

In light of what you eloquently and so honestly shared above, your signature quote makes all the more impact.

I'm so glad you are with us on these forums. The things you've written have helped me, and I didn't tell you that before. Thank you for being here.
:love::love::love:

Z, dear one, you are the LAST person I can think of who needs to apologize to me for anything! Thank you so much.

[scott snedeker]

Brent,

You are a handsome kind loving giving person. I have a theory, tell me if you think it has any substance.

I suspect that the kindest most understanding of people are the ones who are cast out. Why? because the examples in my experience are just that. Christ was for one. Radical faeries are another example. For some of the kindest, most sensitive, gentle souls, the Short Mountain Sanctuary is the only place they can survive.

Maybe the highest form of praise is to be cast out. Maybe it happens because on some level the contrast of the ugliness of the caster against your gentleness is unbearable to them.

I now feel honored to be cast out. My focus is on building with others a net of unconditional love and affirmation. I hear The Beltaine chant we recited on May first on Short Mountain.

It went:

"We are the wave.
We are the ebb.
We are the weavers.
We are the web."

God has a special unique love for you. Embrace it. Connect with it. Share it. Those who can't see the shining soul in your eyes don't matter. Those who can, love you unconditionally, because they are genuine fellow weavers of love.:love::love::love:

[lydiam]

I love what this thread has turned into. Thank you for being so gut level honest, Brent. :love:

[dsdrane]

Brent --

God love you, you beautiful man, you!

A little birdie told me of you going to church last night, but I've only just now read it.

HOLY CRAP!! You were in the zone, Baby!

I'm hereby holstering my red pen and then having the whole thing bronzed and made into an altar to which I will bring burnt offerings and various fruits and vegetables for all time.

I wouldn't change a syllable. Thank you so much for so expertly articulating our collective challenge.

Your friend,

David :love::cookie::cookie:

[Zerbie]

Brent,

You are a handsome kind loving giving person. I have a theory, tell me if you think it has any substance.

I suspect that the kindest most understanding of people are the ones who are cast out. Why? because the examples in my experience are just that. Christ was for one.
God has a special unique love for you. Embrace it. Connect with it. Share it. Those who can't see the shining soul in your eyes don't matter. Those who can, love you unconditionally, because they are genuine fellow weavers of love.:love::love::love:


True words, Scotty. Spend your time with those who love you.

As for the theory: I often think when a loving soul is cast out and rejected, that they're in some rather impressive company.

I do wonder why - WHY - anyone does the casting out of gentle souls though? Those are precisely the kind of person you want around.


Brent --

God love you, you beautiful man, you!

A little birdie told me of you going to church last night, but I've only just now read it.

HOLY CRAP!! You were in the zone, Baby!

I'm hereby holstering my red pen and then having the whole thing bronzed and made into an altar to which I will bring burnt offerings and various fruits and vegetables for all time.

I wouldn't change a syllable. Thank you so much for so expertly articulating our collective challenge.

Your friend,

David :love::cookie::cookie:

Ditto, every word. I 'specially loved the part about fruits & veggies. :D I was merely thinking of, maybe, copying it & saving it in an archive.

[BrentRichards]

You guys are making me cry! (Granted, so does a good sale on bananas, but this is way better...)

[BrentRichards]

A little birdie told me of you going to church last night, but I've only just now read it.


Do you go to my church? [wink]

[dsdrane]

Oh, Honey...!

:cool:

[alakazoom87]

I don't understand what you are guys are talking about. What is going on?

[Zerbie]

Well, first several forum members told Brent how much they love him and appreciate his company on this message board. And now they have started playing. :weee::smurf:

[dsdrane]

I don't understand what you are guys are talking about.

That is vaultingly obvious.

[scott snedeker]

I don't understand what you are guys are talking about. What is going on?

It's called affirmation.

It's helping some one reconnect with unconditional love of self as is, with no condition or requirement to change.

It is what weavers of love do.:dove::flower::magic:

:love:

[u-dog]

I told Brent in private that I think he is a minor god. but I just want to be on record in public so nobody thinks that I don't appreciate him.

[keltic63]

I suspect that the kindest most understanding of people are the ones who are cast out. Why? because the examples in my experience are just that. Christ was for one. Radical faeries are another example. For some of the kindest, most sensitive, gentle souls, the Short Mountain Sanctuary is the only place they can survive.

Maybe the highest form of praise is to be cast out. Maybe it happens because on some level the contrast of the ugliness of the caster against your gentleness is unbearable to them.

I now feel honored to be cast out.

oh, absolutely, Scotty. :agree:

I also believe that people who have never had an identity crisis of some sort, or some kind of emotional crisis at least, tend to lack compassion for others. When I became an outcast (when I accepted that I am an outcast???) that was when I truly became more patient, more understanding, more forgiving, and strangely, more loved and more loving. without the crisis, one believes that they are entitled to all the good things, instead of being appreciative of the joys that life has to offer.

[keltic63]

Do you go to my church? [wink]

I think I'm a member of your denomination.


are you a friend of Dorothy's?

[tdogg]

You know what's even better than science??? :rolleyes:


LOVE

I love you all, my wonderful Soulforce family! :love::love::love::rainbow::rainbow::rainbow:

And a special hug to you Brent! {{{{{:love::rainbow::love:}}}}}

[u-dog]

I think I'm a member of your denomination.


are you a friend of Dorothy's?



Dorothy Who? ;)

[Daniel]

Dorothy Who? ;)

Surrender to Love!

[scott snedeker]

oh, absolutely, Scotty. :agree:

I also believe that people who have never had an identity crisis of some sort, or some kind of emotional crisis at least, tend to lack compassion for others. When I became an outcast (when I accepted that I am an outcast???) that was when I truly became more patient, more understanding, more forgiving, and strangely, more loved and more loving. without the crisis, one believes that they are entitled to all the good things, instead of being appreciative of the joys that life has to offer.

Like a crucible, after the impurities are burned away what remains is the true measure of pure gold!

[BrentRichards]

Dorothy Who? ;)

I think they mean Dorothy Sayers ... don't they?

[nmwolfboy]

I think they mean Dorothy Sayers ... don't they?
Dorothy Parker, surely.

“Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common”