has anyone cared enough to share this with you?

[ronald205nc]

Has anyone cared enough to share the truth about Heaven with you?

The Holy Bible describes Heaven as a beautiful place where people live forever with no death, sorrow, sickness and pain. {Revelation 21:4}

Hell is described as a place of suffering forever for all those who are not saved. {Matthew 13:50}

The good news is that about 2000 years ago Jesus Christ(God the Son) paid for everyone's sins or wrong doing by dying on the cross and rising from the dead after three days. {Mark 10:34}

God the Son came as a sinless man. {Philippians 2:5-8}

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto God(The Father), but by me." {John 14:6} He is our ONLY way to God(The Father) in Heaven.

The Holy Bible says, "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God(The Father) raised Jesus Christ from the dead, you will be saved." {Romans 10:9}

You should not wait until later to get saved because you may die before you get another chance and you will miss Heaven.

If you want to be sure you will go to Heaven after this life is over just pray a meaningful prayer like the one below with your mouth and from your heart right now to God and you will be saved.

Dear God I want to be saved. Dear Jesus Christ Son of God I want to make you my personal Lord and Savior. Please forgive me of my sins or things I have done wrong in my life. Thanks Jesus Christ for taking my punishment for my sins by shedding your sinless blood on the cross and dying for my sins. Jesus Christ I now confess you as my Lord and believe in my heart that God(The Father) raised you from the dead. Amen.

If you just allowed God to save you then welcome to the family of God because you are now a Christian on your way to Heaven.

Now that you are saved, you should strive to live a godly life and you also need to be reading the Bible for yourself. The Bible is essentially God's instruction manual for how to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to God. A good place to start reading the Bible is the first chapter of Romans. You should also find a Christian Church to attend in your area.



Have a good day,
Ronald L. Grossi
RonaldLGrossi@yahoo.com (Use this email address if you have a question.)


Please share this with all your friends and family so they can learn the truth about Heaven before it's too late.

Some of them may not like the message, but at least you cared enough to share it with them.

[andrewlittle]

Or does that just go along with your brand of Christianity? Why do you equate being GLBT, or being allies for that matter, with being unaware of the savng grace of God through Christ? Could your reference to Romans 1 be a clue?

So, to answer your question - yes, many people have cared enough to share the real message of all the scriptures with me, and I have cared enough to do the same - that's why I'm a minister, not a blow hard.

[keltic63]

Has anyone cared enough to share the truth about Heaven with you?

The Holy Bible describes Heaven as a beautiful place where people live forever with no death, sorrow, sickness and pain. {Revelation 21:4}

Hell is described as a place of suffering forever for all those who are not saved. {Matthew 13:50}

The good news is that about 2000 years ago Jesus Christ(God the Son) paid for everyone's sins or wrong doing by dying on the cross and rising from the dead after three days. {Mark 10:34}

OK, I'll start. Jesus paid for everyone's sins???? To whom was the bill owed? So God had to buy us? who owned us then? hint: if our owner is Satan, then God is not powerful enough to conquer Satan, and so had to purchase us. My God is more powerful than that. I'm sorry that yours is so weak.


God the Son came as a sinless man. {Philippians 2:5-8}

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto God(The Father), but by me." {John 14:6} He is our ONLY way to God(The Father) in Heaven.

The Holy Bible says, "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God(The Father) raised Jesus Christ from the dead, you will be saved." {Romans 10:9}

I'll go with Jesus version from Matthew 16: 13-17 13Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

I believe, as Peter confessed, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God (again, the one that is more powerful than your weak God who has to go shopping in order to save his own creation.)

You should not wait until later to get saved because you may die before you get another chance and you will miss Heaven.

If you want to be sure you will go to Heaven after this life is over just pray a meaningful prayer like the one below with your mouth and from your heart right now to God and you will be saved.

is this like a heavenly lottery? buy a chance now, win big later? sorry no pious powerball for me.

Dear God I want to be saved. Dear Jesus Christ Son of God I want to make you my personal Lord and Savior. Please forgive me of my sins or things I have done wrong in my life. Thanks Jesus Christ for taking my punishment for my sins by shedding your sinless blood on the cross and dying for my sins. Jesus Christ I now confess you as my Lord and believe in my heart that God(The Father) raised you from the dead. Amen.

If you just allowed God to save you then welcome to the family of God because you are now a Christian on your way to Heaven.

Now that you are saved, you should strive to live a godly life and you also need to be reading the Bible for yourself. The Bible is essentially God's instruction manual for how to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to God. A good place to start reading the Bible is the first chapter of Romans. You should also find a Christian Church to attend in your area.



Have a good day,
Ronald L. Grossi
RonaldLGrossi@yahoo.com (Use this email address if you have a question.)


Please share this with all your friends and family so they can learn the truth about Heaven before it's too late.

Some of them may not like the message, but at least you cared enough to share it with them.


is there a particular reason you chose soulforce in which to post this theological mess? what is your journey? are you gay? bi? straight? an ally?

[Emproph]

Has anyone cared enough to share the truth about Heaven with you?

In fact my holy reality confirms the existence of heaven. Because my holy reality confirms the presence of God.

And what a glorious an beautiful presence it is to know that I never left heaven in the first place. And that I have never been separate from God's unity with me, even though I may sometimes think so.

Tell me Ronald. If you didn't have the Bible, would you still believe in God?

[keltic63]

a quick google search reveals that this particular person has been spamming forums for years now. same cut and paste message. other forums have reported the guy to google, spamcop, etc. google has done nothing about him. it also appears that once he has posted his stuff, he's gone, never to post again. should he return with the purpose of spamming, he can be placed on limited access.


oh, and check this out: http://www.gotquestions.org/Ronald-L-Grossi.html

[dewdrop_world]

So why not just delete the thread?

James

[tpdncr4christ]

So why not just delete the thread?

James

I second that... no need for this guy to leave an impression...

[u-dog]

I third it.

[Progo35]

I don't know about this guy, but he may not have posted this to be offensive...I think it's reasonable to feel that he posted this because it's a gay advocacy website, but that may not be the case. I know Christians who pass out flyers like this on street corners and from talking to some of them it seems that these are sometimes intended to be distributed to others by the persons recieving them. Although I can see why it'd be offensive, I don't know that this man was intending to be arrogant or self-serving. I don't know that I would consider an invitation to Christianity "spam," I think that I would probably just ignore the post if it didn't apply or appeal to me. There didn't seem to be any "gay bashing" stuff in there... Sometimes Christians come up with very "creative" ways to evangelize and they don't think enough about the appropriateness of particular methods. I would think of that post as an invitation to non-Christians who work within Soulforce, as one reading through the posts would be aware that not everyone is a Christian, even if they are very spiritual. This guy may be making an honest mistake instead of trying to be arrogant. But, he might be being arrogant. It would be nice if he would follow up his post besides just spouting off, but that is probably part of his evangelism method, however shoddy. Sometimes randomly posting such invitations online is effective, as the internet reaches tons of people who are searching for meaning. Just thinking. I also know how obnoxious this kind of witness is for most people, which is why I, personally, don't usually use it.

[Steven E. Webster]

Sometimes randomly posting such invitations online is effective, as the internet reaches tons of people who are searching for meaning.

That, Progo, seems to be the very definition of "spam." This is a place for dialogue, not for spamming. As an isolated, random piece of spam, I think it is entirely appropriate to delete this thread.

If the poster wants to discuss something, to have dialogue, that would be a different story.

Steven Webster

[scott snedeker]

I don't know about this guy, but he may not have posted this to be offensive....

Remove the smoke screen and decorative disguise and now see why it is offensive.

Has anyone cared enough to share the truth about Heaven with you?

The Bible is essentially God's instruction manual for how to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to God. start reading the first chapter of Romans. find a Christian Church


Some may not like the message

I need none of this spiritual filth near me or the ones I love!

[ronald205nc]

you probably don't realize this but did you know that thousands of people would not have heard this message any other way except on internet forums

[Steven E. Webster]

Ronald,

By golly, you are here! I thought you were just an automated spam program!

I'd just like to assure everyone out in cyber-space that Ron's version of the Christian message is not the only one. There are several points about which serious Christians would dispute Ronald:

1) That the Christian faith is all about one's destination in the after life, as opposed to how one lives this life.

2) That the Bible presents a clear consistent teaching about heaven and hell--or the reality of an afterlife--it does not in some Christians' view.

3) That all non-Christians all experience never-ending torture in hell-fire: many Christians believe that there is hope in God for non-Christians who die "outside the faith" and that view is as "biblical" as Ronald's view.

4) That salvation happens all at once when one says the "right" prayer and affirms the "right" belief, many Christians believe that salvation is not exclusive to Christians, does not require "right belief," and is a life-long process of growth towards spiritual wholeness and maturity in this world.

I want to remind everyone that this is an interfaith forum, and that the preaching that only those with one set of beliefs and the proper prayers are worthy of God, or of salvation from eternal punishment is not in keeping with the spirit and purpose of this forum.

Now Ron, do you have anything relevant to say in an interfaith forum that seeks to end spiritual violence against LGBT people (a violence of which Christians are paricularly guilty)--or are you just here to deliver your narrow message about your narrow personal beliefs?

Are you here to deliver an ultimatum ("Accept my belief or burn!"), or are you here for dialogue?

Steven Webster,
A United Methodist Christian

[BruceChris]

Is based on the belief that man can break something, that God cannot fix. I cannot, and do not believe that, so I must therefore believe as Universalist's do.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Progo35]

I don't really care about whether or not the thread is deleted-as I've said, I don't see that as an appropriate evangelism method, which is why I don't use it. I feel strongly that witnessing touches very personal matters and should be adressed in a secure, one to one situation. Or, for those who use the internet, a seperate website. So, my point in posting was not to get you not to delete the thread, it was just to think through various possibilities regarding the poster's intentions.

Moreover, I do believe, personally, that of course one must hope for those who are outside the Christian faith. That is what love is-"Love is always to hope, to trust and to endure whatever comes." If Christians did not hope for those who do not believe in Christ's resurrection, such individuals would miss the Biblical definition of love. For me, the "hellfire" doctrine is more of an unfortunate result by default than it is a viable certainty or something to be randomely presented in a un intimate setting, like the internet. I have a friend who was interested in Christianity, and when we talked she asked me if I thought she would go to Hell if she didn't become a Christian, I said that if Christ is THE way to salvation, as I believe, than the alternative to not being saved was hell, but that I didn't know what God had planned for her, and that I hoped that would not happen. I said that all I knew was that God sent Christ to earth because He loved us, not so he could punish us...and that that was what I wanted to focus on...that was what I wanted to share with her. But this was a conversation that she and I had worked up to over time through a friendship, not something I randomely thew in front of her, so like I said, this guy's methods don't appeal to me.

[Steven E. Webster]

Is based on the belief that man can break something, that God cannot fix. I cannot, and do not believe that, so I must therefore believe as Universalist's do.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

Ex-Gay Watch has posted this about a prominent Pentecostal Pastor who supports the Universalist viewpoint. (Universalism is the Christian doctrine that God intends to save and will save all humanity--if not, indeed, all creation!)

Here's the link to Ex-gay Watch--follow their links to the Pastor's website:

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/06/tulsa-preacher-changes-mind-on-gays-ex-gays/

Steven Webster

[u-dog]

Ex-Gay Watch has posted this about a prominent Pentecostal Pastor who supports the Universalist viewpoint. (Universalism is the Christian doctrine that God intends to save and will save all humanity--if not, indeed, all creation!)

Here's the link to Ex-gay Watch--follow their links to the Pastor's website:

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/06/tulsa-preacher-changes-mind-on-gays-ex-gays/

Steven Webster

Well HURRAY for him! God bless him!:love:

[Progo35]

I'm with you, Scott..the smokescreen is what makes it offensive...it kind of reminds me of th time an aqaintence starting talking to one of my mother's friends at a brunch party some years ago. This person had cancer and is not an especially religious individual. I think that she believes in God and an afterlife, but she doesn't go in for organized religion. Anyway, out of the blue this guy asked her, "Tell me, have you made peace with the Lord?" This was totally inappropriate because it gave the impression of saying, "I'm right with the Lord and you're not, and you'd better get right with him NOW because you're going to die..." So, she answered, "None of your business."

But, even though I think his method was disrespectful, I don't think that this man was intending to be that way-he was just being inconsiderate. So, I think that I understand why it's offensive-I was more commenting on what the person's intentions were, vs. the inappropriatness of the post.

[BrentRichards]

This approach is broadly called "initiative evangelism" ... that is, taking the initiative to put the message out there without anyone having asked for your opinion, or without your particular telling of the message having anything to do with the discussion at hand. As I've said before, I used to run in these circles. Being "bold" with the message = brownie points. Thousands being influenced for the gospel ... yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

This kind of indiscriminate "tracting" (and this electronic equivalent) does one thing ... it slakes the conscience of the tract-er. Check me out, I'm a powerful evangelistic force. I walked out of a restaurant with a friend just the other day, and in the 15 minutes he'd been inside, someone had stealth-tracted his car ... no organization or individual named, just a tract. His reaction was what I almost always see in reaction to this method: "Wierdos."

Actually, assuming that there is an "ulterior motive" here gives this guy too much credit. I'd bet he gave no thought whatsoever to how his posting, language, and particular scripture references would be recieved here ... it's not about us, it's about him.

Can anyone tell I have an attitude as a former "insider" to this way of thinking?

[Daniel]

I'd bet he gave no thought whatsoever to how his posting, language, and particular scripture references would be recieved here ... it's not about us, it's about him.

Can anyone tell I have an attitude as a former "insider" to this way of thinking?

Yep. Reminds me of my Evangel days. The whole point was to get the message out. This kind of thing has morphed into how politics is engaged in- ie the 'stay on message' fixation of the right. The message and the messenger is what it's all about.

Now we know why gay people are accused of 'recruiting'. It's all projection.

[BrentRichards]

Now we know why gay people are accused of 'recruiting'. It's all projection.


Do you think he got a toaster for this?

[u-dog]

Do you think he got a toaster for this?


Not yet... but someday! :agree: and his own little pointy tailed devil, too!:eek:

[keltic63]

Can anyone tell I have an attitude as a former "insider" to this way of thinking?


I know the vocabulary too! ;)

if you were to die tonight, do you know where you would spend eternity?
do you know Jesus as your personal savior?
let's pray the sinner's prayer together.....
it's as simple as ABC, ask, believe, confess!

[Daniel]

Do you think he got a toaster for this?

No....but I have a closet full of tupperware for my 'efforts'. ;):eek::lol:

[BrianB]

I know the vocabulary too! ;)

if you were to die tonight, do you know where you would spend eternity?
do you know Jesus as your personal savior?
let's pray the sinner's prayer together.....
it's as simple as ABC, ask, believe, confess!


I remember sitting on a corner in the downtown area as teen in the youth group passing out The Four Spiritual Laws or The Roman Road. It was like a competition to get the most salvation prayer notches on our bible, or to pass out the most pamphlets. The group these days downtown has kicked it up a notch. They have a bull horn to be twice as annoying.:smashy:

[tpdncr4christ]

you probably don't realize this but did you know that thousands of people would not have heard this message any other way except on internet forums

Just a quick question for you, what about those people who don't hear this message? Like you call every phone in existance and leave a message after the tone and all that... what happens to the people without phones? The people who can't hear your message? Do they just get a one way ticket to hell? That sucks if they do...

And PS, Hell isn't nesiscarily a firery place of torture. It's just kinda... God-lacking.

[andrewlittle]

See, if I can turn 6 people using this mass marketing - umm, evangelization - scheme, and they can turn six people, I get all of the "glory-seat-in-heaven" points generated by each level of marketer - umm, evangelist. Of course, there's the added benefit that you, too, will get GSIH points - there's an infinite number of them.

The trick is to get you to the the marketing - umm, evangelizing - and generate points for me - and you, of course - but to keep my team working to make sure that I actually get the glory seat. Now statistically, since there's a statistical drop-out rate of over 50%, not to mention the rejection rate by the ignorant sceptics of over 99%, I need to have a way of marketing - umm, evangelizing - that maximizes my exposure - oops, people's exposure to the Gospel - and doesn't require me to actually give a shit - oh, dear, let me see ... oh, yes, I trust the Holy Spirit to make my marketing (oh crap, I'm running out of dashes) ...

Anyway, it works. I mean I can't give you actual testimonies because I don't stick around long enough to hear any, but my private line from God rings each time a marketing - umm, wellwhat the hell - message sticks, and I hear bells all the time.

[Daniel]

I am laughing my head off and I haven't finished breakfast yet. If I keep this up I may levitate like the old man in Mary Poppins.

That would be nice.

Keep it coming Andy!

[BrentRichards]

See, if I can turn 6 people using this mass marketing - umm, evangelization - scheme, and they can turn six people, I get all of the "glory-seat-in-heaven" points generated by each level of marketer - umm, evangelist. Of course, there's the added benefit that you, too, will get GSIH points - there's an infinite number of them.

The trick is to get you to the the marketing - umm, evangelizing - and generate points for me - and you, of course - but to keep my team working to make sure that I actually get the glory seat. Now statistically, since there's a statistical drop-out rate of over 50%, not to mention the rejection rate by the ignorant sceptics of over 99%, I need to have a way of marketing - umm, evangelizing - that maximizes my exposure - oops, people's exposure to the Gospel - and doesn't require me to actually give a shit - oh, dear, let me see ... oh, yes, I trust the Holy Spirit to make my marketing (oh crap, I'm running out of dashes) ...

Anyway, it works. I mean I can't give you actual testimonies because I don't stick around long enough to hear any, but my private line from God rings each time a marketing - umm, wellwhat the hell - message sticks, and I hear bells all the time.

[In my best Charles Laughton voice] "The bells, the bells!"

[Emproph]

check this out: [Web Site (http://www.gotquestions.org/Ronald-L-Grossi.html)]So why not just delete the thread?I second that...I third it.And not to be outdone, I quadruple it..wait a minute... I don't know about this guy, but he may not have posted this to be offensive...I think it's reasonable to feel that he posted this because it's a gay advocacy website, but that may not be the case. I know Christians who pass out flyers like this on street corners and from talking to some of them it seems that these are sometimes intended to be distributed to others by the persons recieving them. Although I can see why it'd be offensive, I don't know that this man was intending to be arrogant or self-serving. I don't know that I would consider an invitation to Christianity "spam," I think that I would probably just ignore the post if it didn't apply or appeal to me. There didn't seem to be any "gay bashing" stuff in there... Sometimes Christians come up with very "creative" ways to evangelize and they don't think enough about the appropriateness of particular methods. I would think of that post as an invitation to non-Christians who work within Soulforce, as one reading through the posts would be aware that not everyone is a Christian, even if they are very spiritual. This guy may be making an honest mistake instead of trying to be arrogant. But, he might be being arrogant. It would be nice if he would follow up his post besides just spouting off, but that is probably part of his evangelism method, however shoddy. Sometimes randomly posting such invitations online is effective, as the internet reaches tons of people who are searching for meaning. Just thinking. I also know how obnoxious this kind of witness is for most people, which is why I, personally, don't usually use it. ok now that's just plain mind acid. But I had to "eat" the WHOLE thing before it took effect...

Boy am I full.

[Emproph]

Remove the smoke screen and decorative disguise and now see why it is offensive.

Originally Posted by ronald205nc http://www.soulforce.org/forums/sfstyle/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?p=34469#post34469)
Has anyone cared enough to share the truth about Heaven with you?

The Bible is essentially God's instruction manual for how to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to God. start reading the first chapter of Romans. find a Christian Church

Some may not like the message
I need none of this spiritual filth near me or the ones I love!

I very much appreciate that observation Scott. I missed that "first chapter of Romans (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showpost.php?p=19945&postcount=5)" part.

Considering my last dissection, it's rather offensive, but i still like progo's take on things...