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keltic63
07-09-2007, 08:50 AM
Background: on saturday, my parents attended the birthday party of a 50yo man who attends their church (AoG). I've known the man for a long time, and he has been the subject of many discussions in our family. He is obviously gay, but has never come out. as a matter of fact, is most likely living in denial, because in that church, and in his family, being gay and out is NOT an option. In addition, he has a sister (there are 5 siblings) that is a lesbian. I recall being a teenager in that church and the mother of the kids "testifying" about how her daughter was "delivered" from being "like that." The daughter had been dating girls. For all the quirks of this family, now extended with spouses and grandchildren, they are a lovely and loving family; they are genuinely likable. The son, whose b-day was saturday, has never married, and the family laments that he'll never find a woman. The daughter, did marry a man and have a family. The matriarch of this family has also remained friends with my ex-wife, so not only were my parents at this party, so was my ex. I was in HS and church activities with the youngest daughter, and she asked my parents why I wasn't at the party. Dad told her that I wasn't invited. so the reaction from her was one of surprise.

The "elephant in the room" part: My parents love me dearly, accept my partner, and support me when I complain that things aren't going well concerning my ex and the kids. However, they never want to talk about my being gay. Never. it doesn't happen. I can clear a room, or produce a silence that is deafening, just by bringing it up.
So Sunday afternoon, my parents are telling me about the party. We talk about the man's sisters being there. I mention that I had seen 2 of them out shopping Saturday morning, although at first I didn't recognize them. At least, I didn't recognize the first sister until a few moments later when I saw the lesbian sister, and it registered with me as to why the first looked familiar. Still no mention of orientation in the conversation with my parents. I begin to say something about the lesbian sister, that has nothing to do with her being gay, and my mother interrupts to make her famous statement that the 2 siblings really should have been switched!
In the past (before I came out) the family always took great pleasure in discussing the ways in which the son is so very effeminate, and this particular daughter is very masculine. Indeed, to fit gender role stereotypes, they could switch personalities easily and fit into the "straight" society much more easily. I didn't want to take the conversation that direction, so I made my point and redirected the conversation away from the gay issue. THEN, I reconsidered that and took a bold step.
I talked about how much this man has achieved in his lifetime, yet how unhappy he seems. His "secret" which really is no secret, is showing on his face, it's wearing him down. He's tired and depressed and on the few occasions that I see this man, this is what I see in him. I talked about how the sister was in a lesbian relationship and the parents and church forced her out of it. She married a man, and they've had marital problems. I told my parents that this brother and sister would be much happier if they could just be honest about who they are and live an authentic life. My dad brought up the fact that the daughter is married and has kids, to which I responded "yes, I did that too, remember?" The conversation ended quickly, but I did give them some things to think about. And for once, we acknowledged the elephant in the room.


wow, that was a long story. if you made it to the end, thanks for sticking with me.

Zerbie
07-09-2007, 11:48 AM
I know someone who was in college around 1960 or so. He sometimes tells a story about a guy he knew, part of the group he hung around with, who was engaged to a girl, but it seemed obvious to everyone around that the guy was gay. About a week before the wedding, he called it off and the girl was devastated. He was so shamed by the community that he dropped out of school and disappeared from everyone's radar screen, leaving town and was never heard from since.

The way the story goes, all the young straight guys who were in that group of people talked it over one night, and decided that if that guy couldn't be allowed to be who he was, then society was clearly doing something wrong. A bunch of straight dudes in a predominantly "religious" town, in 1960.

I wish your parents could meet some of the people I know. Straight folks who've had gay friends since about 1960 or so. They might be able to reach your parents.

Anyway. Steve, thank you for planting that seed with your mom & dad. One never knows. My aunt finally figured it out in her 70s.

BenL
07-09-2007, 01:14 PM
Steve,

How lucky you are to have the opportunity to open a conversation (however brief) with your parents. They probably think you're doing so much better than the kids in that other family, although they won't tell you that, being your parents and all.

Both my parents died before I had the courage to come out to them. I don't think I ever would have, knowing how they felt about the topic.

Y'now, I don't think my parents cared very much about whether it's right or wrong to be gay. I think they cared more about what other people would think. I have a streak of that in me, too. I'm out in my social life and at church, but not out at work, either about me being gay or my spouse being trans. Why? Cuz I don't want to have to listen to the gossip or answer people's questions.

How sad that we as a group find it so hard to live totally open lives like everybody else. Every family has its skeletons in the closet, its elephant in the living room. Wouldn't it be better to be able to point fingers at it and share a laugh about it than to pretend it doesn't exist?

I congratulate you for trying to clear the air, so to speak.

paul
07-09-2007, 01:37 PM
Keltic,

I stuck with it because I had to learn who the elephant was. Amazing the selective blindness that happens when two loves cannot be reconciled. Elephants can be a gift that help us confront false notions, if we will acknowledge their existance. Instead, elephants are married off and called zebras. Good luck with your folks, I hope they will be able to acknowledge the elephant. My dad never responded to my coming out, my mom loves me and is praying for me.:rolleyes:

mjules
07-09-2007, 02:46 PM
Congratulations! I think dialogue is a wonderful thing, and sometimes dialogue with the 'rents is one of the hardest, especially if they're not 100% supportive. My parents are slowly becoming willing to reconsider their position on the 'morality' of homosexuality... my Mom wants to read some of the books I've bought once they arrive and/or I get them back from the friends who borrowed them, and at least that's improvement. I broke up with my first girlfriend and went through *pauses to count* six rather tormented years of trying to be ex-gay because I wanted so much to make my parents happy, and they were so adamantly against it.

In fact, when I 'came out' to my Mom just recently, she said, "But I thought you got over that?" And I had to tell her, "I lied because I didn't want to disappoint you."

Much like your parents, it's not that mine have ever been particularly hateful or have ever exiled me from their hearts... it's just that, until recently (because I'm such a loudmouth they can't get away from it now :lol:), they avoided the subject. But now I'm 'out' and volunteering at Pride events and they can't really ignore it anymore.

Anyway, goodonya, and I hope these friends of yours can find their own peace, too. :love:

pnggrad79
07-09-2007, 03:52 PM
Steve,
Thanks for your elephant in the room story. I hope your parents come to a place of total acceptance of you and Scott. You are right about that brother and sister, they would be much happier if they had the freedom to be who they really are. And having children in a straight marriage doesn't CURE anyone of being gay or lesbian. You have 3 kids, I have 2, and we are both very gay. Reproducing doesn't mean a damn thing.
Every time I go to or am around my wife's family, I must suck up and deal with the fact that I am nothing more than the "family friend". My wife sees that when I referred to as the "family friend" that it greatly upsets me, but she cannot bring herself to say something to her mother about calling me that. Her parents accept us and her gay brother and his partner, but only in that small circle. Her mother does not want anyone else to know. So I am called the family friend and that is a huge elephant in the room.
With all these elephants, where is the zoo? And how did they get out?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Daniel
07-09-2007, 04:30 PM
It takes a lot of courage, calm and daring, to do what you did. Perhaps someone who hasn't grown up in a conservative or fundamentalist household doesn't know just how hard it can be to do such a thing. And let me tell you- it is hard! The silence on this issue is like a brick wall a lot of the time.

A week ago, I did some banging on that brick wall myself. I was visiting my parents house, my two sisters were there along with their husbands and my younger brother and his wife. Towards the end of dinner the conversation wound around to my work and I took the opportunity to mention the 'gay tax'....the tax that I have paid on my hubby's health insurance each year. A tidy sum that could easily make for a great vacation in the south of France. Abject silence around the room. I kept on and talked about the injustice of that and of our current health care system- we had just seen 'Sicko". Well...that got a comment out of my brother-in-law. My two sisters excused themselves from the table under the guise of needing to do something in the kitchen.

Ha!

The elephant in the room.

The men left at the lable listened to what I had to say. And I think they actually heard what I said.

What was interesting for me was that, for perhaps the first time in a long time, I wasn't angry. I just talked about the inequities of not being able to be married legally. And how I knew it was going to happen in my lifetime in my state. And that I might be 70 when it came, but it was going to come. No one argued with that. And you know what? My ol' family dynamic didn't kick in for a second. I didn't let myself be silenced. I like to think that's progress. Progress which I owe that to this forum.

If we don't give voice to these things, we are committing an act of violence against ourselves.

There is nothing nice about making things nice for other people at our expense. Literally.

dsdrane
07-10-2007, 07:41 AM
Damn straight/harrumph!

mjules
07-10-2007, 10:08 AM
Damn straight/harrumph!

Pun intended?

;)

dsdrane
07-10-2007, 10:16 AM
Pun intended?

;)


Always.

:cool:;)