Hi, my name is Jordan

[Jordan0517]

I'm a 19 year old gay guy living in Arkansas. The past few months have been pretty emotional for me. It was around march when I began to search the internet about homosexuality and the bible. Before then, I heard people say that it was wrong and that God doesn't like it. I even heard from my aunt that in the bible, there was a city destroyed by God because the people were gay. I remember when I heard the story how my heart started beating real fast and I became scared. Eventually, I was led to a few sites that said being gay isnt wrong and its not in the bible. Noone has ever told me being gay isn't wrong and used the bible to prove it. I'm happy in a sense to see that the bible has been misinterpreted for a long time. But on the other hand....I'm very depressed.

I'm not going to get into full detail about how this little "journey" of mine really started but I can say this...the gay life is very depressing. Before all this, I just assumed that people thought being gay was just nasty and they didn't want to see it. I didn't know the reasons they thought this were "religious" reasons. I'm upset, terrified, extremely lost...I just dont get it.

I can't even think about getting married without wondering when the heck were even going to be allow marraige rights. I can't be happy about being with my boyfriend because we have to keep it secret. The other day, I went to a water park with some friends and while were eating, I looked around and all i saw were couples holding hands and kissing. They looked so happy. I'm not even sure if I, as a homosexual person, will even be able to walk with my man like that, in front of hundreds of people, and not have anyone look at me like im some sinful peice of crap.

I hate to say it..but Im mad at God. I love him but Im mad. It hurts to think that he could let something like this happen..to all of us. I feel sad hearing stories about all of you guys, and others, who've spent years trying to change themselves, getting married and not have it work out, having to hide from friends and family, thinking that God doesn't love them.

Is it too much to ask for happiness? Is it too much to want to be married to someone of the same-sex? Is it too much to want to included instead of excluded? Ugh...

Im sorry you guys..im a ball of emotions right now...

Anyways, on a positive note, I hope to make friends on here and somehow figure things out. Im glad I found this site because I know Im not alone.

God bless you all!
~Jordan

[Zerbie]

:love::love::love:

Welcome, Jordan.
You found the right place. :)

So many people here have asked many of the same questions, had the same fears - and they found peace, even overwhelming happiness. Daniel is on a short vacation right now with his *husband* of 15 years, but I'm betting he will have a lot of encouraging words for you when he gets back. As will all the other forum members.

The city destroyed in the Bible was Sodom. I always understood that story differently than what your aunt told you. Angels came to Sodom in disguise. The people were vicious and tried to hurt the angels. Then God destroyed the city for that. Most people will tell you that the people of the city who tried to hurt the angels were gay, and God destroyed them for that. The first time I heard this story, I right away thought it was the angels who were gay, and the people who were cruel to them were the ones who got punished.

From March to July is a very short time for dealing with something as big and complicated as this. My suggestions are twofold: 1, take your time, as long as you need - I don't care if you need years, take the time you need. and 2, make it as simple as possible. Who do you feel God is? In your heart, not what your head says. Who do you feel in your heart? What guidance does that spirit have to you? You don't have to have answers right now.

I will tell you this: as bad as things are, much is getting better. You will feel less fear and much more hope. You have thousands of friends already working on that.

Once again, welcome. :love:

[BrentRichards]

Welcome, Jordan ... you are indeed in the right place. I can relate to the mixed feelings of resolving one conflict only to see so many more staring you in the face ... it's like that momentary elation when you this strange puzzle piece snaps into place, and then the let down when you realize there are 999 more pieces still in the box.

I came out late ... less than 2 years ago, and as relieved as I was to finally come to terms with my orientation, I also found myself immediately frightened by what lay ahead ... I knew how to live as a closeted gay man, but do I know how to live as an out one? In some ways, we simply trade one set of challenges for another ... but I like this set much better!

If there are particular Biblical issues you'd like explanations of, there are several of us here who have spent a lot of time on that, and will be happy to answer your questions.

In any case, we're glad you're here, and hope you'll get a great benefit from your time on the forums.

[paul]

Welcome Jordan,

"I even heard from my aunt that in the bible, there was a city destroyed by God because the people were gay."

Whew, I bet you're relieved you're not a city.

Seriously though, as the resident angel (Zerbie) mentioned, you are among friends with a wide range of experience and beliefs. You can consider me a father figure if you wish, I have two sons 28 and 26, but I remember being 19 very well.

Yes, growing up gay is not always fun, but we can make it better by who we choose to be. I agree with Zerbie, take your time and be true to your self. Meaning? Know that you are confident and why you are confident before believing anything...especially claims about God. Does it make sense to you that if God wants you to follow that God can lead you? The challenge is finding that for yourself. Really, if God wants you to follow the onus is on God to show you the way...our job is to want the truth. Many will want to tell you what "the truth" is, but you have to know that for your self, and that's the journey of life. okay, enough of that stuff.
glad you're here Jordan, I hope you find good friends who help you on that journey.
paul

[u-dog]

Hey Jordan! Welcome to Soulforce Forums. I have so many things I want to say to you, but perhaps I'll wait and say them a few at a time.

1. I have twin 19 year old sons... but I have absolutely no memory of being 19 myself. I think that time has drawn a merciful curtain. that was the year I first experienced "gay panic" (the feeling of being trapped in your own life with no good options) It was terrible. Things are much better for young gay men like yourself now. Not perfect by any means... but much better. And they are going to get better as time goes on. I'm confident that You will have equal marriage rights in the not to distant future.

2. The people here almost universally believe that God made us gay (or straight as the case may be -- some of the people here ARE) and loves us the way we are. You are among friends here.

3. the interesting thing about the story of Sodom and Gamorrah is that when you look at all the places in the Bible that talk about that story (there are about 15 places where the story is talked about) there is NOT ONE passage that says that the sin of Sodom had anything to do with gay sex.

4. Its fine to be mad at God... especially if you love Him at the same time. What relationship have you ever had where you didn't get mad at the other person from time to time? All real and important relationship include anger now and again. But having said that... cut God some slack. If he took away all our choices what would be left for us to do?

5. Yeah... there's a lot left to do... so roll up your shirt sleeves and join us in the struggle. Another generation or two and we'll get this whole gay rights thing squared away. It will be our legacy.

[Jordan0517]

Aww thanx guys! I really feel welcomed. I wanted to add that I do know about all the verses that are used against us and its hard to believe that simple words can do such harmful things if you get my drift. I have read the "letter to Louise" by Bruce Lowe and I was amazed by how someone who isnt even gay had the heart to study homosexuality and change his mind about it. i have also read Mel White's "Being Gay and Christian in America" and it was interesting. I look forward to talking to everyone some more. Thanx and take care people :)

[Emproph]

Noone has ever told me being gay isn't wrong and used the bible to prove it. I'm happy in a sense to see that the bible has been misinterpreted for a long time. But on the other hand....I'm very depressed.

If you haven't read it yet, a good place to start is Mel White's
What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality (http://www.soulforce.org/article/729)

Before all this, I just assumed that people thought being gay was just nasty and they didn't want to see it. I didn't know the reasons they thought this were "religious" reasons.

In the past few years I've been researching the anti-gay issue (online and such), it's been my experience that most of the time "religious reasons" means ignorance (in that they don't know anyone who's gay and/or they believe the rhetoric of their religious leaders about gays) or sheer bigotry and hatred. God/Jesus and the Bible are usually used to hide the fact that they have no good reason as to WHY same-gender attraction is inherently sinful, but still WANT to believe it is sinful. It's a billion dollar money making industry to sow hatred for gays. So take heart, they're usually full of it. ;)

Like Brent said, if you have any questions let us know. I LOVE to deconstruct their arguments. :D

Good luck with everything,

-Patrick

[wmanion]

Hi Jordon,
I was one of those once married to try and hide my gay people you spoke about...it does take time to resolve faith with your orientation, especailly if you have been brain washed all your life that being gay is evil, sinful, and against nature.
I will be looking forward to your posts, your growth, and your insight to many of the issues that are discussed here. I have only been here a short while but I can tell you that these people are good, loving, and kind. We don't always agree but when disagreement arises it is dealt with in such a loving manner.
Welcome to SoulForce.

Bill

[Gennee]

Welcome to Soulforce, Jordan.

Gennee

:)

[Jordan0517]

I have a long way to go until I even reach a point where Im happy with being gay because right now..im Hating it. There' nothing like feeling scared all the time and you can't even try to enjoy the simple things in life without wanting to break down and cry. Being gay, for me, is just like being straight. Im attracted to guys..but I want the same things normal people want. I just don't get it. How can being gay be sinful? I have read people say that a sin is anything that separates you from God. It hurts me to the core nowadays when I read something and suddenly a coment from someone else says that being gay is this and that. A common one I read is "It is a big abomination to God". Persoanlly, I think the word abomination sounds horrible and people probably read it in the bible and think that whatever the "abomination" is..it has to be extremly horrible.

But anyways, i figured Id tell you guys a little bit about how I came about all of this. I have a boyfriend, James, who ive been dating for almost 8 months now. He lives about an hour an a half away and we dont see each other and stuff. In March, I went to see him and because hes not out, he had to lie and say he was at work when he wasnt. Skipping a lot of details, when I came home that night and tlked to him, I asked him if he was scared of his mom and telling her about himself. Before, when I asked him, he always asked me to leave it a lone, so I knew it bothered him. Little did I know, I was in for a big surprise. He told me that he believed being gay was wrong/ he said he always knew it but just "pushed it aside" and didnt worry about it. My life changed that night.

2 days later, we decdied to break up. It was very hard for both of us. I had an emotional break down because I couldn't believe someone I loved would believe something like that. But back then, I never knew about the bible verses against gays so I couldnt tell him he was wrong. That was when my search began. I remember having constant anxiety being scared that God made me gay to send me to hell and that it was wrong. I dropped out of two classes in college because I couldn't focus anymore. And the classes i did have, I ended up not doing so good. Eventually, If Im correct, I went to Godandgays.com and saw Rev. Mel White's name in the list of people in the documentary. I looked him up and eventually I came here. One of my first "reliefs" were "What the Bible says and doesnt say-about homosexuality" here at soulforce.org. I remember everyday, going to that section and reading it..up and down. I stilldo it now, excpet now I read the letter from Godmademegay.com. I fear that if I stop reading it, I'll get scared again. Its the only thing to reassure me that being gay isnt wrong and that its society and false interpretations that are wrong.

Im tying to recoincile my faith with God but its hard. Its not easy being gay and trying to do that. Every since I was little, being gay was always been considered nasty. I never really gotten the religious aspect of it. Most of it came from kids who that bad about it. I must say that I'm very surprised that a lot of religious people are so hateful against gays that they want them dead. And even the fact that they consider our gift horrible and against God.

In all honest..I dont know what to do. My friend pointed out to me that it seems like Im trying find the exact answers to my questions about everything. Its in my nature to want to know what to do rather than have two sides to an issue and neither one of us believes were wrong. Its frustrating and depressing for me. I have a boyfriend I love very much and I dread the day that me and him wil have a day where this will come up and hell feel the same way about it. I hope to try and helf him see how being gay isnt wrong. But its more than that. I have to worry about his family (his dad is a minister or hes about to be one) and the whole world for that matter. Sometimes I find myself just stuck and ready to break down in any moment. I try to be a strong person most of the time but I can only be so strong until I cant hold my feelings anymore. You guys really have to excuse me for being so.. I dont know..blah about things ,but I dont have anyone to talk to who can relate to me. Sometime I wish I was dead..I really do. And thats sad for anyone to say that about themselves.*sighs* someone please pray for me..

[Steven E. Webster]

Jordan,

You are in our prayers.

Soulforce exists because it was Mel White's response to the cruelty of so-called "Christian teaching" that tells so many lies about who gay people really are, and drives so many young gay people to despair. (It's pretty rough on some of us older ones sometimes too.)

My prayer is that some day you are able to find your way to a more supportive community. I'm glad you've found this "on-line" community to sustain you in this rough time, but even a short move to a somewhat bigger town might bring you in touch with a community of lesbian and gay people where you'll find on-going support.

I pray for you to find the courage that is within you to get through this rough time. I can tell that there is courage within you and you can take pride in that! It takes courage to refuse to listen to the negative, prejudiced messages you will hear day in and day out about gay people. It takes courage to search for, and find the many positive messages, and models for a good, gay future. All over the country there are gay and lesbian couples who are making good lives for themselves and for their communities.

God bless you.

Steven Webster

[u-dog]

Jordan,

I'm praying for you all day today OK?

I can SO relate to what you are saying. I was JUST your age the first time I experienced the "gay panic" that you are describing. It sucks. I'm 50 now though, and have lived to tell the tale. I haven't made all the right decisions but God has blessed me anyway and for all its ups and downs...Life is worth it! You are going to be fine my friend... Really.

Now about Christianity and what God wants and doesn't want. I believe that God made you (and me) gay and that being gay and loving honestly as a gay man is GOOD in the eyes of GOD! Got that? THAT is what I FIRMLY believe. I think thats what you believe also.

But let's just say for the sake of argument that we are both wrong and that God DOESN'T want us to be gay. Does that mean that we are going to Hell? NO IT DOES NOT!!!

The WHOLE POINT of Christian faith is that, finally, we will NOT be judged by what we do and don't do. We won't go to hell because we believed the wrong thing or "guessed wrong" about what God does and doesn't want. The Gospel of Jesus Christ says that if we put our lives and our decisions into the hands of God. If we trust the love and forgiveness of God that we know through Jesus Christ (instead of trusting in our own goodness) then we will know eternal life.

Paul says if we trust the love of Jesus that we will stand before the judgement seat "wrapped up in the righteousness of Jesus" and that we will be judged according to HIS righteousness and NOT our own. So even if we choose wrong and make a mistake about what God thinks of our Gayness... we are STILL not going to Hell.

SO... do your homework. make the best, most loving, most faithful decisions you can about who you are and what you are going to do about it and then LET IT GO. Love God. Love other people, Love yourself and TRUST JESUS!!!

We love you Kiddo! and so does God. We are praying for you. Don't be afraid :love: :pray:

Dave

PS Feel free to PM me if you have questions!

[Pablo Rafael]

Jordan,

Let me first say welcome. I am a little late at saying hello.

I will certainly keep you in prayer. Many of those who are here at Soulforce have experienced struggles much like you have. There are a lot of us who understand.

So many of us have had the battle within ourselves to reconcile faith and sexuality. When people have told us for years that being gay was a sin, it is not easy to change that perception overnight. I struggled with the issue for decades. Like your boyfriend I was convinced that being gay was a sin. But I knew I was gay, so what was I to do then? It was a great relief to me when I found Mel White and others who brought forth Biblical evidence, and then I knew that my own misunderstanding had kept me captive for so many years. A close look at the Bible reveals no condemnation of loving gay relationships.

However I realize that understanding this is only one aspect of the situation. We now have to deal with others around us who still hold to the old prejudices. I know how long it took me to come to terms with my sexuality; I don't expect it to be fast and easy for those around me to come to terms with it. Our society I think is slowly gaining the realization that we gays have a place in this world along with everyone else. I see a brighter future ahead.

You are in a time of turmoil in you life. As someone who has settled down into very uneventful middle-age, I have to encourage you that it will get better. The situations will resolve themselves, maybe not easily or without conflict, but they will. God is with you on this journey. I used to look at my sexuality as a curse; now I realize it is part of God's plan for me. Many of the great people that God has used for great things are those who have had struggles to overcome. God never promised that our lives would be easy, but he does promis that he will be with us every step. Also remember that your friends here are with you as well.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[paul]

Ah Dear Jordan,

Don't worry about being "blah" sweetheart. This is a place where you can be yourself 100%, conflicts and all. It's more than okay, it's a good thing to be real and not put on a game face...you've had to do that to much in life already, it's a gay thing. :rolleyes:

I do understand. I remember being 19. That was the age where I stood up in my church (it was, thankfully, small) and told my "brothers and sisters," pastor, that I was attracted to the same sex. They didn't know what to do with it, so they prayed over me and it was never mentioned again. I was a very dedicated fundamentalist Christian, it was a full time occupation, and there was no doubt in my mind that my condition was a problem and that acting on my desires was "sin," an "abomination." (By the way, the bible also says eating lobster is an "abomination"). By age 19 I had already read the bible several times and had quite a bit memorized. I was a Jesus freak. I ate, drank and slept it, carried my bible everywhere. I was a 'disciple.' All this to, hopefully, demonstrate that I understand when you say: "Im tying to recoincile my faith with God but its hard. Its not easy being gay and trying to do that." So do many others here. Some, you will find, have been able to do that, others :wave:, have not (i.e., we don't believe in that "God" anymore).

You will usually be able to find people to affirm you in life, and that's good. As humans we need the input from others that we are valuable, that's just love, and I think it's the most important thing to give and get in life. But, you know instinctively that being affirmed in something that is 'wrong' is hollow at best, and absolutely delusional. That's why you have conflict and are unhappy right now. Your reality of being attracted to men doesn't line up with all you ideas about "God." So, in order for that conflict to be resolved, something has to change. Some believe that your ssa (same sex attraction) is what needs to change, others will say it's your beliefs about God that are wrong.

I think that being gay is a "gift" in that it provides you with a reason, motivation, to participate in your own life. What I mean is, look at the people around you, talk with them, ask them why they believe as they do. You'll get a lot of glazed over looks, because most people don't really know why they believe what they do, they're just going along for the ride, maintaining the status quo. These people do not have a reason to question and look at life. Because of the conflict you are feeling, you might think these peoples easy attitudes about life are a luxury and you envy them. Not sure I am saying this well. Have you seen "The Matrix?" Think of yourself as Theo. You have a choice of taking the red or blue pill. One will keep you numb and locked into the machine, the other will force you to deal with reality.

Okay, I hope I haven't been confusing here. Here it is simply. Start at the beginning (i.e., question what you've been told and what you think you already know). You can, you know? Why not just go to God directly and ask God what God thinks? Ask God who God is. Ask God to show you in a way you will know it's God. You'll find that will lead to many more questions, but I would suggest to you that it's good to start at the beginning rather than relying on what you've been taught. You have to know for yourself in order to have peace, you cannot get this second hand.

[Daniel]

Hi Jordon,

I'm really glad that you've found this forum. Welcome.

Wow. You're 19, gay and have a boyfriend. Know what? You know a lot more than you think you do. And you have stuff to be grateful for, especially the boyfriend part. I waited until I was in my late 20's to deal with being gay. Took me a long time. I was very fearful when I came out. So many of us are. I thought the sky was going to fall and God was going to strike me dead. Of course, none of that happened. I still woke up liking guys. ;)

Why do I say that you know a lot more than you think you do? Because God- whoever she or he is- has put a brain inside your head, heart and groin. You 'know' you like boys. And this 'knowledge' is something that is innate. It's a sacred part of you- no matter what people say. That's the truth.

But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here. Let me back up for a second.

I went to a Pentacostal school in the midwest- Evangel Universty. Met my first boyfriend there after I graduated and was teaching. He was still in school. God- I liked him a lot. But I was so fearful that I- like your beau- got cold feet and called things off after about a month. I've always regretted that decision. It was very painful. We never got the chance to have a real fight over silly stuff like other people do. No....I thought something was WRONG with me. Based on what? What other people think about the bible?

It's no fun having what is perfectly natural for one to be messed up because of what other people think. No fun at all. It's enough to make to the most calm and loving person in the world stomping mad. And you have every right to be angry at a world that will not recognize your love- and it is love- for your guy.

Your being gay is NOT the problem. The problem is- to put it bluntly- other people. You know this already. Other people who are culturally and biblically misinformed and - here's a strong word- IGNORANT. Yep. Ignorant. God Bless Them. Some of them wear their ignorance better than others. The worst messages about gay people are said by those who are religiously motivated to do so. But this is changing- abet slowly- but it is changing. Even fundamentalist's are getting the message that there is such a thing as sexual orientation. While it used to be that they denied it totally, their message is now something like 'you can have gay feelings but you shouldn't act on them'. That's real smart, isn't it? Their version of God is some cruel monster who gives you desires you can't fulfill. That's real messed up.

Know what you cannot afford to do? No matter what the bible does or doesn't say (and my take- and the take of may scholars and thinkers- is that God doesn't condemn gay people) , you cannot afford to live your life based on what other people think. It's that simple. If you chose to believe those who have little understanding or knowledge about you, you are bound to suffer greatly. The remedy for this is courage and a bit of faith. It's hard. I know. Many of us here have been EXACTLY where you are right now. But if you keep reading, investigating and hanging on, things will get better. Trust me. They will. But you can't let yourself cave into fear and self-loathing. That isn't going to get you anywhere. In short- that road is hell. And the warnings about hell after life don't hold a candle to the hell in this life for those who live in fear.

One must chose between love and fear. And God Bess You- you know love. That inner intelligence in your heart has lead you to another guy who you share love with.

Love between two people of the same sex is NOT some sordid horrible affair. I've been with the same guy for a long time- 15 years actually- and we have our issues like every couple does, but being tormented about being gay is not one of them. We both laid those concerns down many years ago. And one has to if one is going to live a life worth living. And there is so much to live for- and do- and be.

Please give yourself time to be quiet. Your own inner wisdom about yourself and your guy will percolate up through stillness and silence. Not through the crazy fearful mind. That mind cannot rest. And you need some rest from that way of thinking. The cure is to stop....simply stop. Lots of deep breaths and stillness. You will find that the source of all things is inside you- and speaks in a clear small voice. You can count on that voice.

The other thing you can do is what you are doing here: keep talking, reading and searching. No one can untangle a knot in one sitting. This stuff takes time. And dealing with one's internalized homophobia takes time and patience. The more at peace you are with yourself, the more other people will be too. We have to stop fighting with ourselves before other people stop fighting with us.

This site is a great resource. There's lots of material to investigate- books- articles etc. Avail yourself. Knowledge really is liberating. And there is nothing better than self-knoweldge. No one can take it way from you.

I send you much peace.

[Dash]

Oh, Jordan, dear heart...I remember being where you are now. Talk about being angry at God! That anger burned in me for a good while. At it's fiercest I remember addressing God in a poem with these lines:

You promised once no other flood;
You LIED! You flood my world with tears!

And I remember not wanting to live...:'(

But I have this picture in my mind of thrashing about in the arms of God...beating with fists against that great breast...weeping and shouting till exhaustion stills the soul. Through it all those warm, tender eyes are smiling on us...those strong arms hold us, refusing to let us go. And when we are quiet at last, they draw us closer to that faithful, beating heart...loving us more and more...rocking us into peace with a sweet lullaby of love.

God loves you, Jordan. Cling to that. :love: God loves you just the way your are. Your love--your ardent passion for the beauty of men--is a divine gift. This capacity for deep, intimate affection is a reflection of God's own heart. You must never crush it, or let other's destroy it.

And I'm learning about far away boyfriends... sigh... :)

My own lovely is 1300 miles away. Alas! I've no seven league boots to step over the many fields and mountains that separate us. I look forward to the day when my own unmagical house slippers will do the job. :love:

Be well, Jordan. I hope you feel comfortable jumping into the discussions where they interest you. Welcome, welcome, welcome!

:love::love:

[Zerbie]

Oh all you beautiful souls, I love you all so much! :love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love::l ove:

Jordan, I was going to highlight a few quotes from the other members in this reply, but then I realized I would have to quote everything that each of them said. They've left nothing for me to add, but I will repeat a little bit. :p

1. Get quiet. Try a yoga class maybe. Then when you're alone someplace safe and peaceful. . .

2. . . . take your questions, your fears, your doubts, your agony - and lay them down like flowers before God. Then wait. Do this every day.

3. Surrender your desire for a certain outcome. Give up wanting being gay to be a sin, or wanting it NOT to be. Let the spirit inform you.

4. Always ALWAYS remember that God's love is infinite. That means you can use it ALL, and there will still be infinite love left for everyone and everything else, and infinite love available to wrap you up again tomorrow. Isn't that amazing?

5. Always remember that God's love is unconditional. So is His forgiveness. So is his mercy. :dove:

Print out these responses and tuck them away someplace where you can pull them out and read them, whenever your heart feels heavy or your energy low. Or just re-read them often. Your introduction has drawn out some of the most vulnerable, profound, and gentle loving insights of several of our dearest community members - they speak from their own painful experiences. They have survived all that pain and stepped over it and now live gracefully on the other side of sorrow. You can live there, too. One thing that we can be certain of: God wants us to live in joy and peace, with loving and merciful hearts. I KNOW you have this in you to do.

Dear Jordan, I am so glad you came here. Of COURSE we are praying for you. :pray: ((((( Jordan )))))
:love:

[BrentRichards]

I always get here late, and everybody's already said everything worth saying! I'll just add my love, Jordan ... God thinks more of you than you could possibly imagine ... anyone who says otherwise is just scared that if He loves you, there won't be enough left for them... what a silly fear! There's always plenty of God's love to go around!

Do me one favor. Feeling like you want to die is scary. Promise us that you'll talk to us, or someone else you can trust, if that feeling gets worse, or if you find yourself thinking of acting on it. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem! I'd advise you find someone who will let you call them, day or night, if that feeling gets overwhelming. If you don't know anyone where you live, I suspect more than a few on these forums would make that offer, and you'll find some here close to your age who would be easier to relate to than us old farts. You're reaching out and making a connection, which is the right instinct ... the Lone Ranger was a great TV show, but it's a lousy life strategy.

Blessings, peace and all good to you, friend.

[tpdncr4christ]

It is nice to... well... read about you I suppose. My name is Austin, and I'm just like you. 18, in Southern California and gay. Only, I have the luxury of being out.

The very first thing I want you to know, and not that what everyone else said is wrong, but know that you are not the same. All these folks here have lived lives of lies, hiding from themselves and the world before they could finally come to terms with it. You are blessed, in that you can deal with it at this age. You and I have so much to be thankful for, especially from these folks and Mel White. That is much to be thankful for.

Concerning strength. You don't have to be strong. That's God's job. So many people tell me, "Gosh Austin, you are so strong." Not really. The night I came out to my parents, July 4th, 2006 to the sound of fireworks in the background, I realized that I didn't have to be strong. God is my strength. There's that passage in the Bible, about letting go of your yolk, and letting Jesus give you His and all that. Try it. You don't have to be strong. You can cry.

I work at Target, behind the Guest Service Counter, where we deal with returns and exchanges. Just yesterday a man was waiting in line. Both myself and the girl next to me where helping guests, and I finished first. When I said, "I can help the next in line," the man did not move. Now, just so you know, I am not necessarily anywhere close to straight, it is obvious that I lead an "alternative" lifestyle. The man seemed as if he was ignoring me. So I said, "Sir, I can help you right here." What happened next still amazes me... I cannot quite believe it happened. He looked at me, with what had to be the most disgusting look I had ever seen on any face, and said, "I will not be helped by a filthy homosexual."

In that instant it felt like someone plunged my heart into ice water. I was so hurt by his remark, so devalued... I was in shock. I stood there, on the verge of tears, not knowing how to react. The lady next to me, my team member, looked at me, then at the man, then at me again, and made everything all better. She looked me up and down and said to him, "Excuse me, but I believe you are mistaken... He is a very clean, homosexual."

The mans face took the shock that mine had had. He took his bags and left the store, extremely flustered. My friend patted me on the back, and asked me, "You ok?"

I cannot give you a better example of God's love than that moment right there. That is God being strong for me. That is Him loving me. My God looks out for me. He looks out for you too. My God loves me, and He definitely loves you too. You don't have to reconcile your faith with God, you don't have to fix a problem, there is no problem. There is nothing wrong with you, nothing sinful. You are a great person, and from what I've read, you'll make an even better friend. Don't try going and fixing what isn't broken. God already loves you, exactly how He made you. And while it may not be so easy as it seems, you just have to realize that. Don't reconcile your faith, realize it. Because if you can think about it, and challenge it, than its already as strong as mine. God loves you, and I don't think you really need me to tell you, because you know He does. Just the way He made you.

You are in my prayers.

[BrentRichards]

Oh, Austin ... why do the nicest people in the world (e.g. you) have to share the same air with complete animals (e.g. the jerk at Target)? I'm so sorry you had such an experience. I'm honestly glad I wasn't there, because I don't know how non-violent I would have been... verbally, at the very least.

You are right on the money about you and Jordan and others having a wonderful opportunity many of us didn't have (or couldn't see our way to taking, to be more exact), to live openly from the get go ... and you're a great example of how to do it. God is smiling on you, my friend! And, I'm pretty sure he's scowling at the jerk ... who, I am choosing to believe, got a flat tire in traffic on the way home in a freak downpoar.

[Steven E. Webster]

The very first thing I want you to know, and not that what everyone else said is wrong, but know that you are not the same. All these folks here have lived lives of lies, hiding from themselves and the world before they could finally come to terms with it. You are in my prayers.

EXCUSE ME!!! I must disagree. I came out to myself and the whole world at the age of 20 some 35+ years ago. Admittedly it was not easy then. There were very few older gay people to look to for examples. I remember going to a very very huge library at the major University I attended to search for books on homosexuality. There were only about three I could find that were in anyway worth reading. Practically everyone I came out to then had never met a homosexual (so they thought). Having sex with my boyfriend was a crime--and this was in the North, not Georgia or Texas!

Times are much better now. Kids come out younger and in many schools they have support. There are gays represented on TV, in the movies. No one can keep up with all the good books being written on the subject. Some things are still awful, but there is hope even of changing those things.

By the way, Austin, I think you meant to refer to Christ's "yoke", not Christ's "yolk"--not that you have egg on your face. And I loved your story about the nasty, ignorant man at Target. No question who made the fool of himself there!

Steven Webster

[u-dog]

EXCUSE ME!!! I must disagree. I came out to myself and the whole world at the age of 20 some 35+ years ago. Admittedly it was not easy then. There were very few older gay people to look to for examples. I remember going to a very very huge library at the major University I attended to search for books on homosexuality. There were only about three I could find that were in anyway worth reading. Practically everyone I came out to then had never met a homosexual (so they thought). Having sex with my boyfriend was a crime--and this was in the North, not Georgia or Texas!

I think that Austin paid sufficient homage to all of us when he said:

You and I have so much to be thankful for, especially from these folks and Mel White. That is much to be thankful for.

And to be fair, most of us here DID spend a lot of time in hiding, lying, and denying. And most of us here learned valuable lessons and gained wisdom worth sharing by doing so... God is good even when we aren't!

[Zerbie]

The very first thing I want you to know, and not that what everyone else said is wrong, but know that you are not the same. All these folks here have lived lives of lies, hiding from themselves and the world before they could finally come to terms with it.

Austin, please be careful to avoid statements like "all." When I read this I felt about like you described your feeling the other day. Especially considering I don't think coming out to my family as bisexual at 9 - NINE! - constituted a life of "lies," not to mention all the folks here who dealt with these things as young people. I found the statement potentially hurtful.

As for the rest of what you said, bravo. :award: :) Kudos to your co-worker for thinking fast like she did - I doubt it would have occured to me to say that, would've been busy trying to get my jaw off the floor. I honestly can't believe people have the meanness in them to speak to you like - but it sure shows you who your true friends are, and that you have a lot of them. :)

[tpdncr4christ]

I wanted to say, and I see now how I might have missed it, that both Jordan and I should be thankful that we don't have to live lies... You are right Zerbie, I shouldn't say all... I just hear so many folks saying how difficult life was and how they felt as if they had to lie to live a normal life. I wanted to show that we (Jordan and mine's generation) don't have to do that. We have been graced with your generation, and the generations before you that made comming out so much easier. No offense or hurt intended... sorry...

[u-dog]

I took a bit of a risk today and used Austin's story of what happened to him at Target and how he drew on that painful experience to advise and support another struggling person in my sermon today.

I didn't go into the whole "is being gay ok" thing. I just created a "parable" to address an unrelated topic that happened to have a gay main character. I figured if Jesus could use a nasty old Samaritan in his parable... I could get away with using a "filthy homosexual" in mine


.... but then they ended up crucifying him didn't they??:eek:

Oh Well.

It was actually well recieved and when I got to the "actually sir, Austin is a remarkably CLEAN homosexual" line , it got a big laugh. I think I'm not in danger of being crucified.

[rainbow7]

I work at Target, behind the Guest Service Counter, where we deal with returns and exchanges. Just yesterday a man was waiting in line. Both myself and the girl next to me where helping guests, and I finished first. When I said, "I can help the next in line," the man did not move. Now, just so you know, I am not necessarily anywhere close to straight, it is obvious that I lead an "alternative" lifestyle. The man seemed as if he was ignoring me. So I said, "Sir, I can help you right here." What happened next still amazes me... I cannot quite believe it happened. He looked at me, with what had to be the most disgusting look I had ever seen on any face, and said, "I will not be helped by a filthy homosexual."

In that instant it felt like someone plunged my heart into ice water. I was so hurt by his remark, so devalued... I was in shock. I stood there, on the verge of tears, not knowing how to react. The lady next to me, my team member, looked at me, then at the man, then at me again, and made everything all better. She looked me up and down and said to him, "Excuse me, but I believe you are mistaken... He is a very clean, homosexual."

The mans face took the shock that mine had had. He took his bags and left the store, extremely flustered. My friend patted me on the back, and asked me, "You ok?"

I cannot give you a better example of God's love than that moment right there. That is God being strong for me. That is Him loving me. My God looks out for me. He looks out for you too. My God loves me, and He definitely loves you too.



Austin,
I was expecting a different ending to this story. I would say that your co-worker was an instrument of God's grace and living proof that God loves us...her use of humour held up a mirror to the man so that he could see his own hatred for what it was, and he was probably ashamed....that's my guess about why he left. But who knows what he will remember from this experience? Your co-worker cares about you and values you and accepts you for who you are.....and just maybe the way she responded could be the beginning of the cracking of the wall of fear and hate that separates that man from his own humanity and the beauty of others.

Polly

[Jennifer5]

Anyways, on a positive note, I hope to make friends on here and somehow figure things out. Im glad I found this site because I know Im not alone.

~Jordan

... and I hope that you won't ever feel alone again. All of us here love you Jordan and we love you just the way you are! :love: Welcome to our family! (((hugs))) :love: :love: :love:

[Daniel]

Jordan and Austin- your posts starting me thinking about the language of lies. That is, what happens to the gay person who keeps telling him/herself- and is subject to- the same untruth for years and years. Be it a thought or a phrase (God hates gay people- gay people are going to hell etc), this kind of 'language' has a way of seeping into one's brain. Once you know it, it sticks there. And the longer one engages in- or is subject- in this sort of thing, the harder it can be to deal with. It takes on a life of it's own.

My own internal 'language' helped keep my feelings of same-sex attraction buried deep. I came out at the age of 28, and missed out on the whole age appropriate dating thing entirely, happily, this is something you two will not have to deal with. Did I lie to myself about being gay? Not really. I was so far in the closest, with the lights turned off, that I didn't have much sense of myself until one fatal day when a guy (at my alma mater btw) made a pass at me. That was a revelation- let me tell you. And even then, it was a while before I could admit what was happening to me.

Comng out at a comparatively young age can liberate one from this bondage. Still, this can be difficult, especially if one's life hasn't gelled yet. One's 20's are the years to get out and start a career, and if one's sexuality is at odds with one's environment (conservative christian), it can be a risky business.

I think the point here is one of trust. Can a young person trust his/her parents (or environment) to be affirming after the disclosure of their sexuality? That's a tough call for many.

Those who decide that they can't- or aren't self-aware enough to come out- can end up suffering greatly. That said, I think there can be grace even in this. Not that it's good to suffer- God Forbid- but that the Intelligence of the Universe seems to have a way of using whatever we offer to it.

Every moment is given to us to choose Love.