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View Full Version : Christian Beef: Let's address it and learn from it-and work together


Progo35
07-20-2007, 04:27 PM
Today I was watching a you tube video made by Terri Schindler-Schiavo's parents attorney about her condition. It was very poignant and unlike the mainstream media, presented the disability rights perspective. This, to me, is my beef as a disabled person and as a Christian with the "left"-I feel like the "left" (for want of a better, more accurate, fair term), usually leaves disabled rights out of the picture when fighting for minorities. The "right," in contrast, ignores important things about gay rights. But, I firmly believe that oppressed minorities need to begin working TOGETHER, and I think that I have one observation that is very relevant to that.

I was very disenheartened when I looked up the Schindlers' attorney and learned that his website was encouraging Christians to be leary of the hate crimes legislation, and that he basically made the argument that no class of people should be more protected than another.

Okay, but HE HAS A POINT. WHY? The reason he has a point is not his position that hate crime laws are unconstitutional, but comes from the example he proceded to use.

Over Christmas break, there were two incidences of vandalism where someone destroyed a menorah on display in front of a synogague. Another person destroyed a baby Jesus statue that was on display outside a church. This man's beef was that the people who destroyed the menorah were charged with a hate crimes, AS THEY SHOULD BE. But, the people who destroyed Baby Jesus, where not charged with hate crimes, AS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN. Thus, this person and his group were arguing was that there shouldn't be legislation that protects one group over another. But, that isn't the right solution.

To me, the solution that both people on the left and the right, gay and straight, Christian and non-Christian should be working towards is one where ANY CRIME THAT IS COMMITTED BECAUSE OF WHO A PERSON IS, OR THAT ATTACKS THAT PERSON"S PROPERTY FOR WHAT IT STANDS FOR, etc, SHOULD BE A HATE CRIME. That, to me, is what is fair. We need hate crime legislation, it's extremely important. It should apply to everyone who is attacked for their beliefs, religion, race, sexual orientation, gender or gender identity, simple as that.

I think that there is anti-Christian hate in our society, as I experienced it in public school. And, the news and the way it is handled indicate that to me. When the Terri Schiavo thing was going on, all I heard from the left politically was that the right was using her to push their agenda. Well, what about the left using her to push its agenda? It's okay for the left to do it because its the left?? NO!!

Three other examples are case in point:

In December 1, 1997, a fourteen-year-old young man opened fire on a prayer group after expressing anti-Chrisitan hostilities, among other problems. This was not considered a hate crime.

After the Columbine shooting, the only controversy regarding what was said during the shooting between the shooters and the students was the "Do you believe in God?" question. No other statement, including the killers statements about jocks, blacks or other individuals were contested, nor were they allegedly discounted in the Sherrif's report, a sheriff who has since been fired for his shreading of documents relating to the killers' prior offenses. In another case, another girl, who evidence indicates was also singled out for her faith, was mentioned on one of the killer's tapes in connection with the boy who took her to the prom, and in connection with the slogan, WWJD? which she wore on a wristband. The investigators said that the remark was referring to another girl who WASN'T A CHRISTIAN. Then, WHY did the killers say, "Go Romans, thank God they crucified that ---?" or, "Yeah, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, shut the F-up?"

In September of 1999, a gunman walked into the Wedgewood Baptist Church in the south and started screaming that he hated all Christians. He shot seven people and then shot himself. The FBI declined to characterize this as a hate crime.

So, despite his erroneous position on the hate crimes legislation, I think that this man brings up an important part of maintaing true ideals in regard to appreciating individuals and not attacking them for who they are, which is what the hate crimes legislation is supposed to prevent in the first place. A hate crime is a hate crime, no matter who commits it against whom.

Steven E. Webster
07-20-2007, 05:51 PM
Friends,

Seems to me one of the issues raised at the beginning of this thread has to do with whether "anti-Christian hate" should be prosecuted as a hate crime.

Seems to me that a properly drafted law making it a hate crime to physically attack someone (or their property) on the basis of their perceived RELIGION, should equally protect Jews, Christians, Wiccans, atheists, etc.

I wonder if the problems cited at the beginning of this thread had to do with the prosecutor. Prosecutors make the decisions as to whether a particular charge applies in a given circumstance.

Prosecutors need some discretion when making charges. It may be that some prosecutors abuse that discretion. I'm not sure what the recourse is when a prosecutor fails to impose a charge that some people in the public think ought to be imposed. Often District Attorneys need to stand for election.

In the case of Columbine, I don't recall that anyone was charged with anything--the perpetrators died in the commission of their crime, and so weren't charged with anything.

As for whether the distruction of a baby Jesus is a hate crime or not, it probably depends on whether a prosecutor can PROVE the INTENT. If the person apprehended says, "I did it because I hate Christians" then you have a hate crime. If the person did it because they were drunk and intending to destroy property for the heck of it, it may not have been a hate crime.

An assault on a gay person is not automatically a hate crime. Maybe the sole motive was robbery and there is no evidence the perpetrator had any idea that his victim was gay.

Steven Webster

Progo35
07-20-2007, 06:59 PM
Well, I should have clarified that Columbine wasn't intended to be an example of a hate crime-but an example of selective attention when it comes to intolerance/hatred.

The thing is, I don't think that the police asked the people who destroyed the Menorah what their motives were, either. They may have been drunk, or whatever...but they were still charged.