Really time for prayer and discernment ...

[andrewlittle]

... will you help. A virtual "Discernment Group", if you will.

Ever since talking with the Exec Presbyter of the Albany Presbytery several months ago, a particular church in Schenectady has had my passions flowing. Nothing seemed to move ahead, due to health problems for the aging congregation, and the members of the Pastor Nominating Committee.

There have been firm offers from other churches, but I decided against them. I began to wonder if I was holding up potential churches against the Sch. church, having established a "dream" position of some sort. So I began considering churches with a different set of criteria. Now there are two more that look attractive, and for which I think my skill set and passions are reasonably well suited.

Then, on Monday, I was called by the Sch. church's PNC chair, and asked if I was available for a phone interview. That occurred on Tuesday. On Wednesday morning, I received a phone call asking of I felt a sense of call and if I would do a "neutral" pulpit sermon. The soonest we can set that up appears to be Aug 26. You PCUSA types might recognize some "skipping" of normal steps here. I am waitng to see how those arrangements go.

This is the lowest paying church in the presbytery, and in my search. It is, by all outward signs, dying. There are 20 active members, virtually all of whom are between the ages of 70 and 90. They are "out-of-touch" with a neighborhood that has changed drastically over the last two decades, but desperately want to leave a legacy to the community. They don't want to just turn out the lights when the last one dies. They want someone to care for them, but at the same time explore the opportunities for "giving away" their building and small endowment to a community that looks very different than they. They have also never given up - still running a food pantry and free store from their church, despite their ages.

Am I crazy? This is the one I am feeling drawn to. I don't want a church full of people who look like me. I don't want suburbia. I don't want a wealthy congregation. I want a church - a church that extends way past its own walls, and is willing to risk all kinds of loss to reach out to those who are hurting and suffering. I don't care about how much they can pay me.

THis is the basket I want to throw all my eggs into. Am I crazy?

[u-dog]

What a stupid question!! Would you be a Christian if you weren't totally NUTS? They crucified Jesus for Christ's sake and HE WAS THE SON OF GOD. You are a total lune!! You even believe in the bodily resurrection. OFF YOUR FUCKING ROCKER! You belong to the PResbyterian Church... an army FAMOUS for eating its wounded! YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY BONKERS!!!


So... what's your question again?



You are showing every sign of being called to this ministry my friend. If your heart is YEARNING to pastor in Schenectady... and if your wife says its ok... then go. You will be making WAY more money than you are now right? Like ... infinitely more? You could TRY to resist the call... if God sinks every other lifeboat but this one ... you will know its right. or... you could just go and do what your heart tells you is right. Go, preach for them and ask all kinds of hard questions. Share your vision for what could happen there. make them no promises about outcomes. see if they still want you. :love::love:

[dsdrane]

Oooooooo...this is very exciting!

Your words glow off the page, Andrew.

:love::cookie::weee:

[Zerbie]

What does your intuition feel you are "supposed" to really do? Not what your intellect thinks you are "supposed" to do.

Think about the Sch church. Does your body and intuition glow with a "yes'?

Think about the other two churches in turn. Do you glow softly with an intuitive 'yes' for either of those?

Does your intuition tie your stomach in knots of "no" for any of these positions?

[wmanion]

Am I crazy? This is the one I am feeling drawn to. I don't want a church full of people who look like me. I don't want suburbia. I don't want a wealthy congregation. I want a church - a church that extends way past its own walls, and is willing to risk all kinds of loss to reach out to those who are hurting and suffering. I don't care about how much they can pay me.

I think you have answered your own question here. You know where you are being led, and you know what you want.

Bill

[Pablo Rafael]

Andy,

Of all the congregation I have belonged to the one I look back on most fondly was a small (about 30 members) inner-city church in Los Angeles. It was mostly older people in a changing neighborhood. The church was poor and the church workers' pay miniscule.

Yet it was a vibrant congregation that really focused on outreach and ministry. There was a sense of family there that I have not found elsewhere. Everyone knew that the days of the congregation were numbered so they were determined to make an impact while they could.

The congregation has since closed down, but I still look to it as the place where I was at home.

Small older congregations may be at the end of their lifespans, but it doesn't mean that their ministry is over or unfruitful. I won't give you any advice, but I will keep your decision in my prayers.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[wmanion]

Hey Andy,
I was just wondering how your search was going. I know there are so many communities that need someone like you. I live in a city of about 80,000 and there is really no where for GLBT's to go for worship. Even the Episcapalian Church here has turned us away. No long ago the local GLAD group was looking for a place to meet and was told no because the congregation did not embarace homosexuality. They use to meet in the Catholic Church but a new priest came and ended that. Whatever community gets you, I am sure they are going to be a very blessed community.

Bill

[andrewlittle]

Yesterday, I was cleared by the Albany Presbytery's Committee on Ministry to pursue the call to the Schenectady church. I also met with the church's Pastor Nominating Committee for lunch and a heart-to-heart. I took it as a good sign that no-one threw up their lunch.

Today I preach in a nearby church so the PNC can see me live and in person. If all goes well, the next step will be a formal call and church vote.

Keep me in your prayers - I feel even stronger about this call than I did before.

[u-dog]

Yesterday, I was cleared by the Albany Presbytery's Committee on Ministry to pursue the call to the Schenectady church. I also met with the church's Pastor Nominating Committee for lunch and a heart-to-heart. I took it as a good sign that no-one threw up their lunch.

Today I preach in a nearby church so the PNC can see me live and in person. If all goes well, the next step will be a formal call and church vote.

Keep me in your prayers - I feel even stronger about this call than I did before.

:pray::pray::pray::pray: I'm getting calouses on my knees!!:pray::pray::pray:

[sailaway58]

How exciting!
I pray for you and the future God has before you.
The beauty of Gods call is sometimes it is a call to greatness, sometimes not, but all tasks are equal in the end. Staying faithful in any call, situation or circumstance is what is asked of us.
Best wishes, My wife and I have sung at lots of churches as you describe, God is always there.

[Steven E. Webster]

Andrew,

So what happened already?! I've been to church twice already today, and now I'm sitting at home with my kitty on my lap trying to relax. Please tell us how it went!

Steven Webster

[u-dog]

Andrew,

So what happened already?! I've been to church twice already today, and now I'm sitting at home with my kitty on my lap trying to relax. Please tell us how it went!

Steven Webster


Yeah!! for Pete's sake Andrew! We're feeling like Prayer Whores here. You use us to get your way and then cast us off! I have been annoying God all day on your behalf now I wanna know if it helped!

[andrewlittle]

Andrew,

So what happened already?! I've been to church twice already today, and now I'm sitting at home with my kitty on my lap trying to relax. Please tell us how it went!

Steven Webster

Yeah!! for Pete's sake Andrew! We're feeling like Prayer Whores here. You use us to get your way and then cast us off! I have been annoying God all day on your behalf now I wanna know if it helped!

It 10:10PM (Eastern) and I just got back, unloaded the car and sat down to have a smoke and a natter on SF. Sorry about the delay, but at 75 mph it's tough to find and keep a signal from a wireless network, nevermind read and type responses to posts.

Well, the long and the short of it is - we'll have to wait and see. They will meet mid-week, make their decision and contact me. They were all smiles, but that could have been pity.

As for the preaching, the message was all-Andy. The delivery, however, was pathetic. Maybe because so much seemed to be riding on this sermon - maybe because I was in totally strange territory - but for whatever reason, I was more nervous than I have ever been before. Note to self - never preach without a manuscript when doing a neutral pulpit.

One good sign was when five different people wanted to discuss different points I'd made in the sermon. They seem to have understood my stammering - so maybe it wasn't so bad. I, however, don't think the first sermon I ever did (11 years ago) was anywhere near as bad as this one in delivery. While the content was very good (although they could very well object to that, too, since it was hardcore Andy), the sight of a grown man pulling his hair out in the middle of speaking had to be abysmal.

So, anyway, now I wait and see.

Now, for my edification, exactly what is a prayer whore, u-dog?

[antonyh]

Am I crazy? This is the one I am feeling drawn to. I don't want a church full of people who look like me. I don't want suburbia. I don't want a wealthy congregation. I want a church - a church that extends way past its own walls, and is willing to risk all kinds of loss to reach out to those who are hurting and suffering. I don't care about how much they can pay me.

THis is the basket I want to throw all my eggs into. Am I crazy?

That is awesome Andrew. You're in my thoughts at this time.

[sailaway58]

Putting yourself out there is a bold task and I am sure it was better than it felt!
I want instant gratification when I put myrself out there and waiting for positive response in a bitch. Not getting it means I change one of three things, the audience, the song or who I ask about how it went.
Best wishes
Tim

[u-dog]

I just made it up on the spot. I think a "prayer whore" is someone that you ask for prayers from and then walk away. prayers outside of an ongoing relationship. Prayer whores feel cheap and used in the morning. :)

PS: I, like Tim, am thinking that your sermon went better than you think it did. If you got 5 substantive inquiries (other than "did you lose a page or what?") that means that those people were engaged by what you were saying throughout the course of the Sermon. they would not have been able to do that if they had been occupied praying "help him Lord! Help him." all the time.

I will annoy God a little further until you hear from them!

[andrewlittle]

I just made it up on the spot. I think a "prayer whore" is someone that you ask for prayers from and then walk away. prayers outside of an ongoing relationship. Prayer whores feel cheap and used in the morning. :)

I see! So now you're blaming being cheap and used on prayer - oh, sorry, that's "feeling" cheap and used. Never mind.

[QUOTE]I will annoy God a little further until you hear from them!

Much appreciated friend Dave - thanks.

Tim, thanks so much for the encouragement - it is greatly appreciated.

I think it may have been received better than I think. Although when I asked Jenna, who is usually more than willing to blow smoke up my skirt, she began, "Well, let's see ..." She thought I seemed nervous and disoriented, as well. The PCN may just assume the same thing, and overlook it. Or, they may concentrate on the message - and either love it or hate it - which is what I hope for.

And, Antony, thank for your thoughts. As you have noticed, things have been very hectic and I have had to take hiatus from making erudite posts, and from www.hatecrimesbill.org. Hopefully, soon, we will have a call and a home, and I will be able to take up my keypad in earnest again.

[BrentRichards]

I, for one, am already setting aside time for a drive to Schenectady for your ordaination and installation ... ROAD TRIP! To steal Dave's line, God is good, all of the time.

[Steven E. Webster]

While the content was very good (although they could very well object to that, too, since it was hardcore Andy), the sight of a grown man pulling his hair out in the middle of speaking had to be abysmal.


Well, let's hope and pray for the best! Sometimes all that struggle for words in the pulpit conveys a genuineness that draws the congregation in--trying with you to find the right words.

Steven Webster

[BrianB]

Andrew, self-expression doesn't seem to be one of your problems. OTOH, you did have a couple of beers when we met at the restaurant. Do you think they would let you keep a pint of Bass ale behind the pulpit instead of water? :D

Seriously though, God used Moses even though he complained of stammering lips. He is well able to use your lips too. I continue to pray for you and Jenna wherever God leads you both.

BrianB

[Zerbie]

Best wishes, Andy. :)

Sometimes when we think we've not shown ourselves well, we have in fact done so - a couple times I won competitions when I hated my own performance.

I think if this gig is the one you belong at, you'll end up there no matter what.

[u-dog]

Best wishes, Andy. :)

Sometimes when we think we've not shown ourselves well, we have in fact done so - a couple times I won competitions when I hated my own performance.

I think if this gig is the one you belong at, you'll end up there no matter what.

seriously, if I had a dollar for everytime I thought I had preached a history changing sermon and everyone left saying nothing more than "nice sermon pastor" or thought I had totally crashed and burned only to find out that more than one person considered it life changing... I could retire. the whole sermon thing is either a Holy Spirit show or its nothing at all.

[andrewlittle]

But, I think Brian hit on a real possibility with his idea.

Andrew, self-expression doesn't seem to be one of your problems. OTOH, you did have a couple of beers when we met at the restaurant. Do you think they would let you keep a pint of Bass ale behind the pulpit instead of water? :D

Then they would just have to overlook the slurring of words.

[Daniel]

Late to this thread.

Andy- I think U-dog is on the something: it's hard to judge our effect on others, especially when we've invested a great deal in the endeavor. Know what I found most heartening? That you were 'all Andy'. I can't think of anything better than that. All you have to do is keep being yourself. That's good enough.

Praying for good things....