Need advice...very Christian/conservative family.

[Str8Ally]

I have a huuuge extended family...something like 20 aunts and uncles and 60 cousins. They are all very Christian and very conservative. (I am the only non-believer besides my stepfather, and we along with my mom are also the only liberals).

I love my huge family very much, but something has been concerning me. There is not one openly gay person in the entire bunch. Statistically, I heard that one out of ten people are gay. (If anything that is a conservative estimate, right? Because it doesn't account for homosexuals living in the closet)?

So, what are the odds that in a family of almost 80 adults and teenagers, not a single one of them is gay? Doesn't it seem almost impossible? Statistically, there should be eight gay people in my family, so the fact that there isn't even one is ridiculous! That means somewhere in my family, there is one gay person (or more) who feels they have to hide who they are. This concerns me greatly.

What do you guys think I should do? What CAN I do? Should I bring up the issue of homosexuality (knowing everyone disagrees with me), just so it gets around that I am pro-gay rights, and hope that the person (or people) open up to me? I'm at a loss. Any suggestions would help.

[keltic63]

more than likely, there are a few gay people in that extended family, I will agree with you there.

I don't think you should go looking for them. Had someone in my family done that, I think I'd have just gone even deeper into the closet. I think your motives are good, but I don't think I'd make an announcement with the hopes of finding out who's gay at your next family reunion. "May I have your attention please? Statistics tell us that 1 out of 10 people are gay/lesbian. There are 80 of us here, so that means there are at least 8 of you, so Come out, Come out, wherever you are!" :lol:

I'm teasing, of course, but you can openly express your opinions about glbt people as the opportunity arises in conversations. If they are as conservative as you say, it will get around the family, and eventually some cousin might just open up to you.

[Zerbie]

It's not necessarily so that there are gay people closeted in your family, but as you've observed, it is statistically quite possible. This is a matter I've thought about too over the years with my own family - which is much smaller, but there's not too much you can push things like this. No one deserves to be pushed or prodded, so I wouldn't force the issue, ever.

You can simply come out yourself. :cool: Come out as a gay-rights supporter. If someone says something at the next family gathering like "the homosexual agenda wants to put Christians in jail with this new Hate Crimes legislation," then you can calmly and directly explain to everyone listening what the hate crimes bill REALLY does, and don't forget to mention that religion is a protected class, too. ;) Then you can mention how much you respect your gay friends and don't want them to live their lives in fear of violence. You love your gay friends too much to let them be treated like that. If there's a gay person listening, BELIEVE ME, she or he WILL remember that you said it. Especially if you are the only one in their entire family to ever say so. They may be too scared to tell you, but you will have lit that person up inside with a ray of hope.

There's more you can do than that, too. Check out the thread about safe space for gay babies - I posted a link there to a place where you can purchase "Safe Space" stickers so that you can announce that you're an ally without saying a word.

You could also order one of those terrific T shirts Nathan created - in fact, they'd be PERFECT for you. I have 2 of the same shirt in different colors that says: "I love my gay lesbian bisexual transgender Christian friends. Please don't let their church abandon them." It costs about $20 per shirt. Ideal situation? Wear that shirt to your next big family gathering. :D If you have a closeted gay cousin somewhere, you better BELIEVE they'll notice.

Thank you for asking. There's a LOT you can do to support gay family members without them needing to come out to you. Then if they are ready someday, YOU will be the one they come to first.

:love:

[u-dog]

.

I love my huge family very much, but something has been concerning me. There is not one openly gay person in the entire bunch. Statistically, I heard that one out of ten people are gay. (If anything that is a conservative estimate, right? Because it doesn't account for homosexuals living in the closet)?

ten percent is a high number actually. the gay community likes to use it to bolster our arguments. The conservative forces like to say 1-2 % which is TOTAL CRAP. I think the most compelling evidence suggests that 4-6% of people are PREDOMINANTLY same sex oriented whether they are in or out of the closet.

So, what are the odds that in a family of almost 80 adults and teenagers, not a single one of them is gay? Doesn't it seem almost impossible? Statistically, there should be eight gay people in my family, so the fact that there isn't even one is ridiculous! That means somewhere in my family, there is one gay person (or more) who feels they have to hide who they are. This concerns me greatly.

In a family that size you can bet that there is more than one SSA person.

What do you guys think I should do? What CAN I do? Should I bring up the issue of homosexuality (knowing everyone disagrees with me), just so it gets around that I am pro-gay rights, and hope that the person (or people) open up to me? I'm at a loss. Any suggestions would help.

yup... thats exactly what I think. If I was a teenage gay person in your family I would be HUGELY relieved if I knew that ONE person in my family thought that I was OK. I am a pastor and I struggle with the same question. I know that there are or have been gay teens and adults in my congregations over the years. I always try to let it be known through comments in conversation or asides in my sermons that I am an open and affirming person and that it is safe to be open with me. Even if no one confides in me I have let it be known that the pastor doesn't think gay people are going to hell. You also give courage and permission to other straight people in your family to speak up if they don't agree with the prevailing "wisdom" in the family.

[sailaway58]

U-dog makes some good points.
I think pursuing the Gays in your family even for the right reasons could come off as a witch hunt. Next you find yourself on a mission and you see some kid that you think "looks" a little gay. Now you are filled with passion to help him come out. The problem is you can't tell by looking, well sometimes you can but I say just leave it alone. Just be nice to everyone and if you hear anti-gay talk stay loving and speak your heart. You better know what you are talking about though.
No one in their right minds wants conflict during a family gathering, just enjoy whomever is around you.

[sailaway58]

Oh, and by the way. I don't know of one gay person in my family or my wifes family. I have never really thought about it... Well there is my cousin, he is pretty quiet and plays the piano, owns a card shop too, Hallmark cards...

[Str8Ally]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Wearing a t-shirt sounds like a great idea to let everyone know where I stand and possibly spark a conversation. I don't like arguing at family functions, but this is too important an issue to just let it go.

[scott snedeker]

There is one gay member in each of the the X-generation sets of kids (except one) between my mother's and father's sides. That makes four out of eleven! That is a 36%! prevelence. So I tell each of my cousins and my brother to plan on seeing at least one of your kids be gay like their uncles!:lol:

I would defend any criticism of your support of gay rights by family by stating that by doing so you are becoming part of the future of this world. That this is part of making this world a kinder place.:love:

[Str8Ally]

I would defend any criticism of your support of gay rights by family by stating that by doing so you are becoming part of the future of this world. That this is part of making this world a kinder place.:love:

Very nice! :) :) :)

[u-dog]

Oh, and by the way. I don't know of one gay person in my family or my wifes family. I have never really thought about it... Well there is my cousin, he is pretty quiet and plays the piano, owns a card shop too, Hallmark cards...

The key words there are "I don't know of." If I were a member of your family you wouldn't "know of" me either. I am pretty certain that you wouldn't guess either and if I were to come out in your family you would be pretty f*****g surprised. We are everywhere and in EVERY family. Trust us, its true.

[KennethJ]

Str8Ally, I think its so great that you have such a heart for glbt people.

One thing to remember is that, even if someone in your family is gay, they may have just as negative attitudes about homosexuality as others in the family. In fact, many times the most homophobic people are gay people who haven't yet come to terms with their sexuality. That certainly was the case for me. I think the best thing you can do is to show yourself to be compassionate and openminded and be uncompromising on that. A "straight but not narrow" button could be a good conversation starter, too :)
I wish I had a cousin like you growing up!

[sailaway58]

The key words there are "I don't know of." If I were a member of your family you wouldn't "know of" me either. I am pretty certain that you wouldn't guess either and if I were to come out in your family you would be pretty f*****g surprised. We are everywhere and in EVERY family. Trust us, its true.
I guess my point is it is not uncommon to not know and it doesn't matter. I see no point in bringing it up at the family dinner table.

[Str8Ally]

Str8Ally, I think its so great that you have such a heart for glbt people.

One thing to remember is that, even if someone in your family is gay, they may have just as negative attitudes about homosexuality as others in the family. In fact, many times the most homophobic people are gay people who haven't yet come to terms with their sexuality. That certainly was the case for me.

That is so true, I had forgotten about that! First of all, Kenneth, congratulations on breaking out of that mind-trap. And since you have been there before, do you think it would help the person to overhear me specifically talking about how it is not a choice, it is innate just like heterosexuality, and that it is not morally wrong and nothing to be ashamed of? What would you have wanted to hear from someone you loved when you were in that position? Thanks.

[u-dog]

I guess my point is it is not uncommon to not know and it doesn't matter. I see no point in bringing it up at the family dinner table.

I like and respect you Sailaway. Wish there were way more straight people like you... but this, I think, is your "growing edge" (nice way to say you're wrong wrong wrong ;) )

As a formerly teen-aged gay person who grew up in a loving and not particularly prejudiced family and who was affirmed and accepted without question when he FINALLY did come out to his family, I see EVERY REASON FOR A STRAIGHT AND AFFIRMING PERSON TO "BRING IT UP AT THE DINNER TABLE" !!!!

Making us invisible and "not suitable for dinner table conversation" is one of the ways that the majority population makes us disappear. It is one of the many subtle forms of violence committed against us.

Ally! You go right ahead and spoil the appetites of the straight members of your family! Your gay cousin (whoever he/she is) needs to know that you "see" him/her and his/her experience.:love:

Dave

[Str8Ally]

I guess my point is it is not uncommon to not know and it doesn't matter. I see no point in bringing it up at the family dinner table.

Just to clarify, I have no issue with me not knowing who in my family is gay. But I do have an issue with someone in my family not knowing I am their ally and, if they wish, confidant. I don't see how that unknown person (or people) could possibly know I am there for them if the issue is not brought up.

[Zerbie]

Just to clarify, I have no issue with me not knowing who in my family is gay. But I do have an issue with someone in my family not knowing I am their ally and, if they wish, confidant. I don't see how that unknown person (or people) could possibly know I am there for them if the issue is not brought up.

Exactly. :agree:

For the one in that closested space, it can seem as if EVERYONE around you hates homosexuality. You're wrapped up in fear that if you accept yourself you'll cross some kind of horrifying Rubicon into Heaven-knows-what scariness. As a bisexual (or whatever I am/was) married person, I've been on both sides of that scenario.

As the supportive person, it can be incredibly frustrating to be in a situation where mere discussion of anything "gay" is taboo. If you can't speak about it, there is no way to communicate unconditional support to the people you want to support and love. I ran up against this time & again in my late childhood/early teens, when mentioning anything gay was taboo unless you were either telling a demeaning joke or issuing panicky scare threats about AIDS. I tried getting the message out non-verbally by being "nice" to people generally, but I'm sure the fact that Zerbie said a bright hello did NOT register with any closested gay person as unconditional support for who they are. :rolleyes:

I had been searching for an activism niche for about a year when an acquaintance I somewhat knew (and had always assumed was gay, correctly it turns out) ran into a situation talking with me where he thought he had to either come out or lie. He was so sure rejection would automatically come, but did not want to lie, so the poor man went white and shook while awkwardly as hell stammering to me that he was in a *gay* group. He never gave me a chance to respond, and would not look at me. I tried to interrupt by putting an arm around him, but he flinched away and informed me that I would not want to touch him once he told me this thing he was trying to say. :( He looked at the floor while he informed me that he was sure I was morally offended and that's okay, he understands, and finally, "I'm not hurt," he says to the floor. Then takes off at a semi-run.

I stood there in wonder and dismay, feeling like all my attempts at activism were useless if people who actually knew me could feel so unsafe and so expect rejection. I felt like all my attempts to show support were useless. Had the thought then that I needed one of those Safe Zone stickies tatooed on my forehead! Back in those days, I was wearing one of those red AIDS awareness ribbons every day, but clearly that did not send a complete message. I would have LOVED to have had one of Nate's tee shirts back then, and of course now that they actually exist I have 2 of them.

I try as hard as possible, 8, to be very "out" and let myself develop a reputation for involvement in our issues, which hopefully might precede me. In the past couple of years I've acquired Nate's tee-shirts, worked on a campaign to defeat a marriage amendent, worn a rainbow bracelet, worn a gay marriage button on my shirt every day for a year, have the HRC sticker on the car, lobbied my congressional representative for ENDA and hate crimes legislation, plus attended innumerable community meetings, forums, pride events, etc.

Nevertheless, it seems that every time one of my gay colleagues discovers that I'm supportive of our issues, he's surprised. One last example: after a rehearsal, during our months of campaigning against the marriage amendment, I approached a very out gay theater colleague (whose partner I had already spoken to) to try to drum up more NO voters to support our campaign and help get rid of the homophobic amendment. I approached him during a quiet moment when he was by himself so that we could talk about it for a couple minutes and I could ask him to drum up some more supporters or even campaign volunteers.

Now mind: I was wearing a gay marriage button on my shirt, and a rainbow bracelet was on the arm I used to hand him a pamphlet, and I said right off the bat that I was looking for people to vote NO, but I guess all he saw was a married straight chick talking about marriage amendments and handing out literature. He looked distinctly uncomfortable and took several steps back to get away from me, until he practically bumped himself into a wall. "Wait - what - what - which side are you on?" He stammers.

The moral of the story, and basically I've just taken a really long time to agree with Dave here, is - you can't possibly be TOO supportive of the gay community.

[KennethJ]

That is so true, I had forgotten about that! First of all, Kenneth, congratulations on breaking out of that mind-trap. And since you have been there before, do you think it would help the person to overhear me specifically talking about how it is not a choice, it is innate just like heterosexuality, and that it is not morally wrong and nothing to be ashamed of? What would you have wanted to hear from someone you loved when you were in that position? Thanks.

Thats a good question. I think it would have been great to have a pro-gay family member. But thinking back, I probably would have tried to have a debate with that person and convince her/him that she is wrong. But I can't really generalize about what anyone else would do.
I remember that in high school I had some pro-gay, liberal friends, and it really hit me that they seemed more friendly and loving than myself (and i was supposed to be the perfect Christian friend, trying to save them from hell). It created an uncomfortable conflict in me, but eventually it evolved into asking myself the honest, deep questions that lead me to where I am now.

I would say there is really no easy answer. The way OUT for conservative Christian lgbt's is a long, difficult process. There are really no shortcuts and you can't really "do it" for them. Really, I think you can just be yourself, and you can respectfully state your opinion (I don't think it would be helpful arguing about it) when you are able. You can show yourself to be accepting and approachable, and when they are ready, they may muster up the courage to confide in you. That is a sign of deep trust which must be earned over time.

[Str8Ally]

Thank you so much Zerbie and Kenneth for your comments and advice. I appreciate it.

[sailaway58]

Well 8, I am in the process of openly talking about my involvement and interaction on Soulforce. My mother has looked at the site she thinks there may be some merit in looking at what this forum has to say. Most people think I have gone off the deep end. People try to laugh it off but it opens the door for conversation. I am never combative but when some one does ask me about it or I just keep talking about it, I approach it with “what if's”.
What if for most GLBT it is not a choice but just who they are?
What if the church is wrong about this issue?
If GLBT's are only being themselves, how could this be a sin?
If it is not a sin then shouldn’t they be able to teach in our children’s church? Sing up front? Have full participation in church activities? That is why I think this is an important issue.
I never feel it is up to me to change someone’s mind. I believe calm open dialog is in favor of my goal, or one of my goals which is to get others to think. Think about what they are afraid of, think about what the consequences of rejecting others are.
Read something they don't already agree with for once!
The same goes with family I am more interested in openly talking about it to get them to reconsider some of their views. I don't expect anyone to agree with me I just say I have been reading and thinking about this, yada, yada, yada, what do you think?
Because you are openly agnostic I doubt you will have much credibility with your conservative Christian family members.
I did think of a good one liner you are free to use if a Christian seems aggrieved of GLBT's "That's why I am agnostic, it gives me the freedom to accept everyone"
But personally I would rather see you embrace the faith and work from the inside.

And Dave, I may need to defer my previous thought to someone with your insight. Not to mention I have brought it up ay almost every family dinner I have been lately.
It is unimportant to me if a gay guy knows if I accept him or not, I want everyone to understand Gods love and acceptance… but that may have to come by my love and acceptance.

[sailaway58]

Just to clarify, I have no issue with me not knowing who in my family is gay. But I do have an issue with someone in my family not knowing I am their ally and, if they wish, confidant. I don't see how that unknown person (or people) could possibly know I am there for them if the issue is not brought up.
Just go to some of your family gatherings with a pro gay marriage button on. :eek:

[Str8Ally]

I am never combative but when some one does ask me about it or I just keep talking about it, I approach it with “what if's”.
What if for most GLBT it is not a choice but just who they are?
What if the church is wrong about this issue?
If GLBT's are only being themselves, how could this be a sin?
If it is not a sin then shouldn’t they be able to teach in our children’s church? Sing up front? Have full participation in church activities? That is why I think this is an important issue.
I never feel it is up to me to change someone’s mind. I believe calm open dialog is in favor of my goal, or one of my goals which is to get others to think. Think about what they are afraid of, think about what the consequences of rejecting others are.
Read something they don't already agree with for once!The same goes with family I am more interested in openly talking about it to get them to reconsider some of their views. I don't expect anyone to agree with me I just say I have been reading and thinking about this, yada, yada, yada, what do you think?

Yes, yes, yes! I very much agree with you and this is how I try to present myself whenever touchy issues get brought up. I understand that being vociferous and angry towards anyone who disagrees will only push them further away from seeing and understanding my point of view.


Because you are openly agnostic I doubt you will have much credibility with your conservative Christian family members.
I did think of a good one liner you are free to use if a Christian seems aggrieved of GLBT's "That's why I am agnostic, it gives me the freedom to accept everyone"
But personally I would rather see you embrace the faith and work from the inside.

That's a really good response. But I do think you're right, I should be wiling and capable to argue from the Christian perspective - the atheist issue is a whole nother can of worms. (And believe me, it was hard for me to "come out" to them about that - in fact I had to do it through MySpace). They will probably try to use the fact that I am atheist and pro-gay equality to "prove" that not having religion has made me "morally lax." I will have to emphasize in the discussion that quite the contrary, my position on GLBT issues is the moral position, and their's is the position that is immoral.

[BrianB]

Having a pro-gay member in the family back in the day when I was in the closet would have been threatening and perhaps relieving. It would have been threatening because I was scared out of my mind that my parents would find out... and not speak to me. Having a family member know about me would have increased my risk. Now I know this fear was mostly in my head, back then it seemed a very real fear.

It would have been relieving to have someone I could talk with privately about how to come out and when to come out. In fact, I'm only out to my parents. The aunts, uncles, cousins don't know. I don't feel a need to tell them right now because they are several states away. If the subject comes up and they ask me I will tell them the truth. It's not like they talk to me much right now.

BrianB

[Str8Ally]

Having a pro-gay member in the family back in the day when I was in the closet would have been threatening and perhaps relieving. It would have been threatening because I was scared out of my mind that my parents would find out... and not speak to me. Having a family member know about me would have increased my risk. Now I know this fear was mostly in my head, back then it seemed a very real fear.

It would have been relieving to have someone I could talk with privately about how to come out and when to come out. In fact, I'm only out to my parents. The aunts, uncles, cousins don't know. I don't feel a need to tell them right now because they are several states away. If the subject comes up and they ask me I will tell them the truth. It's not like they talk to me much right now.

BrianB

Hello Brian. Are you saying you would have felt threatened even if the pro-gay family member did not know you were gay? Or you would have only felt threatened after you opened up to them? I don't want to inadvertantly shove any of my relatives deeper into the closet out of fear that the subject even came up in their presence.

[BrianB]

Hello Brian. Are you saying you would have felt threatened even if the pro-gay family member did not know you were gay? Or you would have only felt threatened after you opened up to them? I don't want to inadvertantly shove any of my relatives deeper into the closet out of fear that the subject even came up in their presence.

My trust level is bad because I shared some things (not gay) with a cousin that I didn't want my mom to find out. The cousin opened her big mouth and it got around to my mom. It would have made me very uncomfortable for homosexuality to be discussed around the dinner table. A private conversation would have been good. Maybe you could ask your family member privately how they feel about gay marriage. You could also ask them if they believe homosexuality is genetic or is it a choice. A question like that would be a good conversation starter. Maybe when they find out how you feel they will come out to you. If they respond negatively you can just change the subject.

[Str8Ally]

Maybe you could ask your family member privately how they feel about gay marriage. You could also ask them if they believe homosexuality is genetic or is it a choice. A question like that would be a good conversation starter. Maybe when they find out how you feel they will come out to you. If they respond negatively you can just change the subject.

That wouldn't work in my situation, because I'm working on the assumption that, while there are no openly gay people in my family (80-something people), there might be one or some who are in the closet, knowing how conservative the family is, and feeling like they have nowhere to turn. I want whoever it is (if there is anyone) to know, by overhearing me say it, or through it getting around in the family, that I am there for them and support them and that they can come to me.

I would also have to be sure this person or people would know that I would never "out" them to anyone without their permission. Oy, this is a tricky sitution.

[Gennee]

I don't know how accurate that percentage is but it may be true. Discuss this with your relatives when you feel that you are ready. I kind of understand your situation because, to my knowledge, I'm the only transgender person in my family.

Gennee

:)

[cousin.of.zuzu]

I think they will know even without telling them. I knew my cousin was just able to talk about things my family wouldn't and was safe. And because I knew she was safe and thought differently she was the person I came out to (years later). She made all the difference in the world. Anyone in that family who is struggling who knows you are more open will probably try and connect with you. Watch for little ways since it may take a ton of bravery. But if you have any cousins etc. who start wanting to hang out or talk to you more than others I would pay attention to that! :) That's what I did. Just made baby steps. Talked about little things. Eased my way into it.

[BrentRichards]

I like and respect you Sailaway. Wish there were way more straight people like you... but this, I think, is your "growing edge" (nice way to say you're wrong wrong wrong ;) )

As a formerly teen-aged gay person who grew up in a loving and not particularly prejudiced family and who was affirmed and accepted without question when he FINALLY did come out to his family, I see EVERY REASON FOR A STRAIGHT AND AFFIRMING PERSON TO "BRING IT UP AT THE DINNER TABLE" !!!!

Making us invisible and "not suitable for dinner table conversation" is one of the ways that the majority population makes us disappear. It is one of the many subtle forms of violence committed against us.

Ally! You go right ahead and spoil the appetites of the straight members of your family! Your gay cousin (whoever he/she is) needs to know that you "see" him/her and his/her experience.:love:

Dave

Put me down for a loud Sevenfold Amen on this one.