Non-Imponderables and Moot Points

[awediot]

The following are some quanderies that have on and off perplexed me for a long time. Some I have put to rest, some are riddles with inborn, obvious answers when the question is posed another way...

1) Was the apple bait?
2) What is wrong with the Golden Rule? (treat as you'd be treated)
3) Could God make a stone to heavy for Him to lift?
4) Is Science a Religion?
5) What would change if God were Proven?
6) Does Perfection require a flaw?
7) Aren't you free only to choose what God knows you'll do anyway?
8) Why would an All encompasing God want to create?
9) Doesn't prayer for change imply things are not as God wants them?
10) Is Atheism the longest leap of faith?
11) Being God, what's the first thing you'd change?
12) If guaranteed a clear answer, what one question would you ask God?

...and some reveal a new level by simply standing guard of the unknowable... So if you like the paradoxical or are looking for food for thought, pick one or two, think them through and fill in some gaps, but this time don't settle for merely raising more questions.

[SolInvictus]

Intriguing. I'll try to answer what I can:

1. I see the "apple" and Eden story as a metaphor for temptation, and a mythic tale on the origins of life.

2. Nothing is wrong w/ the Golden Rule.

3. Good question and I don't know.

4. Acc. to Webster, religion is "any system of faith and worship" and "belief in supernatural entity that governs the universe."
Science is defined as "systematic knowledge of knowledge and phenomena."
By definition, they are not the same, but similarities could be said to exist in that both seek to understand the universe.

5. What would change if God were proven? Perhaps universal peace or universal wars over who is "right." A good film asks this question titled "The Second Coming" produced by the BBC. The answer was unexpected and interesting.

6. The analogy "no one is perfect" seems to fit as a response. By definition, perfection cannot have flaws. However, we humans are far from perfect. Depends on your interpretation: scientific or religious perfection.
One could be a perfect human as defined by scientific terms, but some moral absolutes in certain belief systems require unachievable perfection (imo).

7. Good point and possibly.

8. Taoism states "God created in order to understand Itself." I agree w/ this view or at least it intrigues me.

9. Not necessarily. Prayer brings humility and realize we humans cannot do everything. The Odyssey by Homer asks this question and gives a similar answer "Man is nothing without the gods."

10. To me, atheism represents a different way to venerate the Divine by means of the study of science. Lack of a belief in a deity is nonetheless a belief.

11. End hatred, possibly. I really don't know.

12. Will peace ever happen on Earth?

* As a side note to #12, on the X Files, a genie granted Mulder three wishes. He wished for peace on Earth and all humans vanished. Ironically, his third wish was to undo his wishes...

[Jennifer5]

You've asked some great questions... here is the best I can do in anwsering...... I'll leave some blank...


1) when I think about it I would say maybe it wasn't bait but opportunity
2) I don't find anything wrong, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
3) yes. if he couldn't he would've gotten to board a long time ago... he's got to do something with that time..:D
4)
5) for some it wouldn't make a difference and some would walk around never getting anything done because all they would be thinking about would be how to please him/her
6) In my opinion perfection is a flaw. If life were perfect I don't know what the point of living would be.
7)in some cases yes. but I believe that although God may have a lot to do with your life I think he/she also gave us the power to surprise him/her other wise it's nolonger a game for God...
8) the same reason that we still draw, we ave plenty to see but the process is the fun part.
9) i think it just implies that things aren't the way we want them
10)
11) knowledge... of anything, just enough so that people/animals... would be able to figure out for themselves how things work over a long time.... without doing quite as much damage....so pretty much leave things.... I don't know
12) I don't know who I would pick only one....

thanks awediot:)

[zephyr013]

Hard not to answer with another question.

1) It wasn't necessarily an apple.
3) Too bad God transcends any ideas of limitations (gravity, "strength," etc.) that we humans can imagine, otherwise, this question could logically prove that God was not omnipotent.
8) Because God was lonely and wanted something on which to shower his perfect and infinite love.

[awediot]

A couple of (my) the EASY answers

1.
2. What is wrong with the Golden Rule? -If you kind of expect to be treated lousy, you're justified in sharing it.
Treat Better.
3.
4.
5.What would change if God were Proven? -You. In crazy, unexpected, and unwanted ways... So, everything.
6.Does Perfection require a flaw? -Yes, briefly, Then it becomes the perfect flaw.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.Being God, what's the first thing you'd change? -Being God.
12.

[schoolboi]

1) Was the apple bait?
Since I believe this story never actually occurred as described, it really does not matter. That being said I have no problem with the idea that God baits us or sets us up for sin or failure.

2) What is wrong with the Golden Rule? (treat as you'd be treated)
Nothing

3) Could God make a stone to heavy for Him to lift?
God is a mystery that our human minds can not comprehend. God truly is all in all. If he wants to make a stone to heavy for him to lift then he can. Then if he wants to turn around and lift it, he can. God is not governed by any law. He is the law.

4) Is Science a Religion?
Not by definition, but anything can be made in to a religion.

5) What would change if God were Proven?
Again God is a mystery and his very nature is beyond our comprehension or ability to prove.

6) Does Perfection require a flaw?
Yes it does. As a matter of fact I think flaws are just perfect.

7) Aren't you free only to choose what God knows you'll do anyway?
Again we are limited in our understanding. God is a mystery. He is not limited to time or space. We are. So to say that we have complete free will and yet we have no will at all is not a stretch for God. It’s a mystery to us.

8) Why would an All encompassing God want to create?
I would say that creation is simply apart of being all encompassing. There is nothing outside of God.

9) Doesn't prayer for change imply things are not as God wants them?
There a lot of things I pray for that I know God does not want. But I ask for them anyway.

10) Is Atheism the longest leap of faith?
I don’t know about the longest, but I do believe it requires faith.

11) Being God, what's the first thing you'd change?
I would make all of the really hot guys gay.

12) If guaranteed a clear answer, what one question would you ask God?
What they hell were you thinking?

[Jennifer5]

11) Being God, what's the first thing you'd change?
I would make all of the really hot guys gay.

Now, that's not quite fair, wouldn't you settle for half?

12) If guaranteed a clear answer, what one question would you ask God?
What they hell were you thinking?
You've got the right answer, forget mine I'll second that:)

[Emproph]

8) Because God was lonely and wanted something on which to shower his perfect and infinite love.^I like that one. What would a God who is Love do with an infinite supply of itself?
-Why share it of course!

I started out with just one or two but alas, I get one novel idea and it turns into a nov...el. (I’m Outa’ Control! -Regis).

-#5 the abolition of the question. :cool:

-#11 Having to go to the bathroom. Or better, the elimination of elimination... :D
Edit -I forgot, if I was God I'd have access to all the parallel realities where that was already the case...Never mind :D

This was my favorite one though:
#3 Can God make a stone too heavy for him to lift?
Wrong question, right direction, but then you knew that didn’t you? :)

It wouldn’t occur to God to create bigger than itself, Love/God is all there is. Technically the idea itself should be impossible (#6, yes, at least the illusion of “other than God" or imperfection is required to perceive its opposite). but, somehow, somewhere, some part of God discovered the concept of impossible. -We’ll call that concept, the concept of NOTHING.

The concept of nothing IS-that-rock. If nothing is the opposite of everything (or anything), then everything has no opposite. Since the state of nothingness is impossible, then so too is the concept of it. The concept of nothing is an illusion. All of physical creation is built on this impossible idea.

Few of us stop to contemplate the absurdity of the notion, yet every aspect of our thoughts and experience regarding physical creation rests on this fundamental assumption (Need, lack, absence, future, unknown, etc.).

The rock ‘to big to lift’ is the impossible notion that we could ever forget our eternal oneness with God who is completely Love and always only Good.

-Understanding ourselves in relation to God is our understanding of good and evil, or the ‘forbidden’ fruit. The “fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,” something totally unknown in God’s reality of only Heaven, and therefore novel special and unique. So #1, apparently it was “bait,” at least for me cuz here “I am” pontificating on the “Great I Am.”

No matter what our, or even God’s conception of God is, it will only EVER be smack dab in the middle of One Love that’s eternally exponentially increasing in intensity.

To the extent that God is increasing, so too is God’s understanding of even itself/Himself. #8

Once you understand it like that, the nature of the question becomes the question. God didn’t create a rock too big to lift, ‘He’ created a “reality” where such a notion is possible..

[awediot]

Interesting... Some of these questions seem to indeed have answers. Perfect, as it were, answers, that when heard invoke the "aha" response:

#3. Could God make a stone to heavy for Him to lift?--- (Yes, but it pops reality so we could never, ever know it for long, long time away) Emproph's elaboration says it all and nothing.

4) Is Science a Religion?--(Are There any Alters? Do they dress in robes, burn and chop freaky things? Does it have its own language? Produce miracles? Compete with other religions? Is it a crutch, do you use it to get things, does it give you hope? Have a Savior? Heal. Scare you? Tell you what to do. To Make. To believe. Say. Question. Where the question marks went.)

#7. Aren't you free only to choose what God knows you'll do anyway?--------[So?.. duhh....who cares?) Enough said for here.

#10. Is Atheism the longest leap of faith?---( Yes.There is no where to land.)

#12. What would you ask God? (What do you most want me to know?)... If you ponder the question, you find alot of chances to waste an opprotunity by asking what you really kind of know... Kudos to SchoolBoi. It is the justifiable question with a question. "What am I missing? " or rather a careful, less open ended rewording, "what should I ask you?"

[Jamie McDaniel]

11) I'd like to see what the world would look like without suffering
12) What's it like being you?

[awediot]

Why would God create? Doesnt any change in the Omnistatus-quo imply imperfection, a lack, mere room for change? Is boredom or loneliness or even the desire to acquire the emotion of sharing, a flaw in God? The perfect flaw?
Another way to look at it is "what could God create?" Simply (or not. See Emprophs contemplation) Not God. Other than God. And other, though made of Godness, is NotGod anymore. Your nail clippings are not you. We are not Him, nor will we be again.
Perhaps, at least from what we see on this earth, Nature was not enough. It reflected Him, was perfect, but didn't "know" it, couldn't "know" Him. It still WAS Him. So from it He pulled something that could see Him, see It and see Itself. And as a self, could prefer itself. It was a necessary risk. It was the best way for God to meet His goal.
I think in a sense, we are God's vacation from being God. We are the way for Him to get out of Himself, to know Himself from a different perspective (the Tao SoulInvictus mentioned). Each Soul, each life, is a carnival ride He can get on. Knowing how it ends doesn't diminish the experience. Perhaps when all's said and done (question 13? ) our knowledge of each other will be similar and we truely learn to see the world through one anothers eyes, and live through those eyes as God may today...