Hello, my name is Kev

[archyboi]

Hi my name's Kev and I live in Central Arkansas in one of the coolest towns in all of ArkyState. I got here by reading Rechien Lehmkuhl's MySpace blog. I didn't know anything about SoulForce before. I'm so happy to know about it now!

I have studied TONS of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and ancient culture religions. I love history and historical dramatization. My bacground is architecture and design. I have studied 19th, 20th & 21st hermeneutics and philosophy. My greatest love is Aristotle, though.

I welcome all discussions. I love to debate and affirm out-of-the-box thinking. I'm waaaaaaaay out-of-the-box but very grounded in facts, reality & the truth. I hate hypocrsicy and lazy thinking. I will let you know when I encounter it and you have premission to do the same for me.

Let's get the basics out of the way. I am gay. I have always been gay. G-d made me gay & I am honored and love G-d for making me exactly just the way I am and exactly just the way you are. We are all called to love each other exactly the way G-d made us and support and defend everyone's right to be safe, themselves and happy. I can be counted upon to promote this and actively work for it. I am of the school of thought formulated by John Shelby Spong, Episcopal Bishop Retired: G-d is the ground of all being, the source of all love & the source of all life. We are all called to be ourselves as passionately, honestly & fullout as we can possible be; love as extravagantly, wastefully & deeply as we possible can; live as completely & fully as we can possible do so; and encourage everyone we come in contact with to do this as well.

That's my mission. I hope it is yours.

Peace, love & grace in Christ to you all.

You are beautiful, G-dly & precisious and you are loved by G-d. This is completely true & anyone who says otherwise is lying & deluded. I wish to dispell this as well.

Kev

[scott snedeker]

I love your spiritual strength! Love is the answer and the ultimate hermeneutic. I would love to hear some highlights of your spiritual evolution thus far. I am one of the pagans (there are a few others on the site).

I find myself in a transition from my present conventional living to another spiritual paradigm. Are you associated with the radical faeries?

I'm making arranements to spend time at the Short Mountain Sanctuary (a radical faerie gay hipppie commune) to explore the different ways of letting in peace, light and simple joys of being.

Hope to hear more from you!
:love::love::love:

[sailaway58]

Interesting but how do you feel about an occasional beer?
Welcome either way. ;)

[Daniel]

I'm waaaaaaaay out-of-the-box but very grounded in facts, reality & the truth.That's my mission. I hope it yours.


Welcome. I think you'll find quite a few members who think as you do, whether they are in or out of the box. Facts, reality and truth figure large around here.

I started out as a Pentacostal, but have journeyed far afield since those days.

[Gennee]

Welcome to soulforce, Kev.


Gennee

:)

[archyboi]

Howdy Scotty!

I would love to. Thanks! Weeeeellllllllll, everytime I take the www.belief.net quiz I come up "Wicca" or "Pagan"!!!!

HA!

This is due to the scism we are living right now. The questions are slanted in the Traditionalist Paradigm and I am in the Emerging Paradigm. They are not compatible with each other. Dr. Marcus Borg puts it this way. The older tradtitionalist view is fading but it is defintiely NOT going quietly into its "Good Night." The newer emerging view is growing and the older guard doesn't like it all. The conflict is becoming strident. With Paul Barnes then Ted Haggard then Mark Foley and now Larry Craig -- these terribly pitiful closetcases are the proof of the hypocrisy of the right's deminishing view. It's inevitable and a force of nature.

We have to get on the side of reason and competent cognitive processes. The churches have to follow. I believe Jack Spong is absolutely right on the money. Christianity will die of its own growing irrelevancy or it will change to meet the challenges of the 21st Century.

I live for the day when Brian Greene, Sam Harris, Michael Dennett, Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hithcens could sit with integrity with Marcus Borg, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong, Joan Roughgarden, Bruce Bagemihl, Katherine Jefferts Schori, Jack Spong, guys like Reichen and all of us could sit in the same church together and get something beneficial and inspiring from the time spent together in our differing spiritual pursuits.

That's wayyyyyy out-of-the-box, ain't it?

But if one is an honest Christian -- or whatever faith -- isn't it incumbent upon me to be that faith with the highest integrity I can possibly be and offer that as a witness to inspire others?

It's the hypocrisy that irks me.

I saw the QAF episode where Emmett went to one of those!!! Crazy, bud! I could get into that probably! HA!

Thanks for your kind response. What questions do you have for me? Use me up.

Kev

[archyboi]

Interesting but how do you feel about an occasional beer?
Welcome either way. ;)

I would LOVE to have a beer with ya and toast our good health, vitality and humanity!

The whole prudish temperance hypocrisy doesn't go far with me. I celebrate the "Fruit of the Vine" as a sacramental must. I'm a lightweight, though, so moderation is my calling card!

Breaking bread and sharing wine together goeeessssss weaaaaaayyyyy back in human evolutionary history, girl. Ya know?!

Thanks,

kev

[archyboi]

Hey Daniel,

I'm sensing that. I have been a very thirsty man in the wilderness for far too long. I am honored to meet and know all of you. Thanks for welcoming me.

Say, if any of you are interested I posted a whole string of back and forths on www.washingtonpost. com's On Faith page with Sally Quinn & Jon Meacham.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/2007/02/gay_unions_and_clergy/comments.html#comments

I posted as "Strangely Warmed". You can get my theoloigcal and scientific underpinnings from the posts but the most remarkable thing happend with a VERY hostile poster David. Read it. It will brighten your day, I promise.

Cheers Daniel!

kev

[archyboi]

Gennee,

Thanks, babe!

kev

[archyboi]

Oh, I forgot to say. I've been a Methodist all my life. It caused me great turmoil and grief for decades but I have made peace with it and am activily working to change my church. It needs to be initiated in the south. I am committed to it.

--kev

:cool:

[archyboi]

I am big fan of Mary Renault and am working through her corpus. Even here in boondocks, AR, there is a very cool used book store that has lots of GREAT books -- many of Mary's of course!

So here's one of my favorite passages. It will make you smile and it will make you cry but it's wonderful she can evoke both so seamlessly and beautifully. I hope you agree.


“There were nine or ten of us, from everywhere between Greece and India; some very good. This won’t be my day, I thought; I’ll just dance for him. If he likes it, that’s prize enough.

“I had just come from where water stood for joy. I wore white striped with green, and started with little tinkling finger-bells for the mountain stream. Then the river flashed and twisted, and took great leaps for the rapids; flowed in slow bends; and sank down, stretching out its arms for the sea’s embrace.

“Well, it was as he [—Alexander the Great—] liked it. But it seemed all the army had liked it too. Considering how good some of the rest had been, I was amazed at the noise.

“The Indian, who came last, I thought a serious rival; he did Krishna with a flute; and the boy from Susa was very polished indeed. To tell the truth, I have never been too sure about that contest. If I was no better than the runners-up, I daresay I was no worse; and as always, Alexander did not direct the judges. But the army did.

“I was for him, of course. I don’t think I was badly liked; I did not flaunt myself, nor intrigue, nor sell my influence. I’d been with him a long time now; I expect it touched them to see him happy; they had watched his face as I danced. They did it for him.

“The crown was of gold olive-sprays with sheet-gold ribbons. He put it on me, and stroked the ribbons to fall into my hair and said softly, ‘Beautiful. Don’t go, sit here by me.’ I sat on the edge of the dais by his chair; we smiled at one another. The army clapped and stamped; and someone with a voice of Stentor yelled, ‘Go on! Give him a kiss!’

“I looked down, confused. This was going too far, I wasn’t sure how he’d take it. They were shouting it all around the theater now. I felt him touch my shoulder. They had been with him a long time, too; he could tell affection from insolence. He drew me up onto his arms, and he gave me two firm kisses. To judge from the applause, they liked it better than the dancing.

“It is well that Persian ladies do not attend public spectacles, as Greek ones do. I have always thought it a most immodest custom.

“That night he said to me, ‘You’ve won back all your beauty from the desert, or even more.’ Well, that’s not so hard, at twenty-two, when you have never had a wound. He meant that it was good at last to feel a little life left to spare in him, at the end of the day.

“I made him happy, without putting too much tax on it; how, was my secret, he never knew the difference. He was content, which was all that mattered to me just then, and fell asleep straight after.

“When I rose, the cover slipped away, but he did not stir. I lifted the lamp and looked at him. He lay on his side. His back was smooth as a boy’s, his wounds were all in front. There was no weapon devised to cut, or pierce, or fling, that had not left its mark on him. His body was white against his sun-scorched limbs; it was long since he’d run in the ball-court naked with his friends, which had once so shocked me. In his side, the knotted scar dragged on his ribs; even now in his first sleep, his brow was not quite smooth. His eyelids were wrinkled, old in the face of a boy at rest. His hair shone paler than it used when lamplight fell on it; the threads of silver had turned to streaks, since we marched into Gedrosia. He was thirty-one.

“I reached to pull up the cover. But I had to draw back, lest my tears should fall and wake him.”

--Bagoas II [Mary Renault The Persian Boy]


That's remakable, isn't it?! I love it.

Oh, BTW, I found a VERY hard to find out of print edition of Wallace Stegner's Beyond the 100th Meridian cheap and in very good condition. When I lived in the South Bay it was going for hundreds of dollars IF you could find it. I love that too!


kev

[scott snedeker]

Howdy Scotty!

I would love to. Thanks! Weeeeellllllllll, everytime I take the www.belief.net quiz I come up "Wicca" or "Pagan"!!!!

HA!

This is due to the scism we are living right now. The questions are slanted in the Traditionalist Paradigm and I am in the Emerging Paradigm. They are not compatible with each other. Dr. Marcus Borg puts it this way. The older tradtitionalist view is fading but it is defintiely NOT going quietly into its "Good Night."
Thanks for your kind response. What questions do you have for me? Use me up.

Kev

What are some of the ways that you handle spiritual violence toward gays in Fundamentalist Christianity. I have found Christianity so potently poisoned with millenia of hate that to me it is undrinkable.

Either I allow spiritual violence to injure me or I defend myself which creates spiritual violence within me. Either way my interaction with christianity results in violence to my inner spirit that takes away my inner peace, joy and light.

My best so far is to quickly exit with "Your disconnection to unconditional love of self and others causes me too much pain in to be your presence." I then cry for a while to regain balance.

[archyboi]

Scotty,

It is unacceptable, period.

THAT is precisely what I have struggled with. Read the blog thread on www.washingtonpost.com's On Faith forum and see what you think.

Here's the problem. Very bad things happen in this little old world of ours. Horrible things and one must wrestle honestly with the tension of G-d's not being a protective barrier. That is tripe. Fierce tough love accepts the good and bad gracefully. That is VERY hard to do. It is a courageous act. Either we are courageous or we are whimps.

I'd rather be courageous whether or not safe. It's a tough call. When you think honestly about it and strip away the supernational interpretations and take a Jeffersonian view Jesus was not the Paschal Lamb offering, the atonement lamb nor the scourged scapegoat. These are Post Hoc interprative expanding explanations for a horrendous political assassination. Jesus was killed by the very hate you speak of. He didn't compromise his ideals or ministry and accepted his tortorous death with dignity, grace, compassion and profound courage.

THAT is inspiring. And worth honoring. It's also a lesson for all of us. We need to stand together and tall for what is right regardless of consequences just as Jesus did.

Do you get me?

kev

[scott snedeker]

Scotty,

It is unacceptable, period.

THAT is precisely what I have struggled with. Read the blog thread on www.washingtonpost.com's On Faith forum and see what you think.

Here's the problem. Very bad things happen in this little old world of ours. Horrible things and one must wrestle honestly with the tension of G-d's not being a protective barrier. That is tripe. Fierce tough love accepts the good and bad gracefully. That is VERY hard to do. It is a courageous act. Either we are courageous or we are whimps.

I'd rather be courageous whether or not safe. It's a tough call. When you think honestly about it and strip away the supernational interpretations and take a Jeffersonian view Jesus was not the Paschal Lamb offering, the atonement lamb nor the scourged scapegoat. These are Post Hoc interprative expanding explanations for a horrendous political assassination. Jesus was killed by the very hate you speak of. He didn't compromise his ideals or ministry and accepted his tortorous death with dignity, grace, compassion and profound courage.

THAT is inspiring. And worth honoring. It's also a lesson for all of us. We need to stand together and tall for what is right regardless of consequences just as Jesus did.

Do you get me?

kev

I get that you are courageous. I was once also as a younger man. But I also subscribe to a different discipline of thought focus---by necessity. I am too weary to be a martyr. My spiritual Guide is Abraham. We effect change by attraction. We create what we really really want in response to seeing what we really really don't like. Abraham teaches that by directly opposing what we don't want we fortify that posture and achieve the opposite of what we want.

By creating something beautiful in response to something hideous and without direct opposition, a contrast is created. It is the contrast that does the work. I see this as is a reflection of Christ's "turning the other cheek"

I suspect, however, That there is a place for many different responses to fundamentalist homophobia. I don't think that it is limited to a dichotomy of courageous versus whimpy. On the other hand, courage generates respect in most, but especially I think in small minded homophobes. This provokes a sense that perhaps it is better to be seen as a threat than as prey. I feel better, however with the thought of making my point of view so attractive that they abandon theirs because mine feels better. However this step may only be possible after a demonstration of courage generates respect.

One thing is for sure. I'm glad that you are on our side!

[archyboi]

TOTALLY!!!

I agree wholeheartedly. We can stand together exactly that way. Now you know how I will work and I know better how you will. You're poetic. That is right on. Meet ugliness with beauty.

Here's a little insight to me. I used to love reading Orson Scott Card's books. I read nearly every one until 2004 when I found out he is a MAJOR Mormon Closetcase anti-gay activist. I was devistated because I foolishly thought he was speaking to me about my nature in a beautiful affirming way. That is his blindspot. He is gay and deeply closeted and he can only let it out in his fiction books. He is such a hypocrite. I have not bought a new book of his since and gave all my others away.

Still, he wrote a great character in Alvin Miller/Maker. Whenever the Unmaker caused ugliness Alvin was driven to make something beautiful to counter the Unmaker's ugliness. Just like you said.

I struggle with this too. You are helping me to learn too. Please continue to do so.

--kev

[scott snedeker]

Ender's Game was one of the books by Orson Scott Card that I remember reading. Actually I particularly disliked it because it represented a war-like world where children were raised in an abusively militant regimented academy. If this were true they would turn out to be antisocial neurotic nazi's and not the characters he portrayed.

However, given the insight afforded by your last post, this book perhaps reflects some aspects of his Mormon upbringing. All portrayals of Mormon upbringing that I have seen are quite loveless and pitiless to their own gay children. If he was gay he conceivably could be tortured to unending angst with self-hate. Perhaps that is what came through the writing and made me dislike it so.

An opposite to this would be a book titled The Alchemist Where a young poor shepherd boy learns his entitlement to his desires by allowing his heart to feel and love. It is exciting reading despite the beneficent message

Kev,

Those who harbor homophobia are disconnected from love of self. They compensate for a personal sense of inadequacy with predatory gratification by dehumaizing gay people. They have small minds driven by fear. Fear drives people to act in the ugliest most cowardly way imaginable. Their existence is pitiful for no matter how much gratification they get they will never know love.

[u-dog]

TOTALLY!!!

I agree wholeheartedly. We can stand together exactly that way. Now you know how I will work and I know better how you will. You're poetic. That is right on. Meet ugliness with beauty.

Here's a little insight to me. I used to love reading Orson Scott Card's books. I read nearly every one until 2004 when I found ut he is a MAJOR Mormon Closetcase anti-gay activist. I was devistated because I foolishly thought he was speaking to me about my nature in a beautiful affirming way. That is his blindspot. He is gay and deeply closeted and he can only let it out in his fiction books. He is such a hypocrite. I have not bought a new book of his since and gave all my others away.

Still, he wrote a great character in Alvin Miller/Maker. Whenever the Unmaker caused ugliness Alvin was driven to make something beautiful to counter the Unmaker's ugliness. Just like you said.

I struggle with this too. You are helping me to learn too. Please continue to do so.

--kev

Do you have any links to back this up, KEV,? My sons and I have read about everything Card has written and loved it (except that last novel "Empire" -- total trash of which he should be ashamed). My gaydar never went off while reading his stuff... nor my antigay-dar for that matter. I'm not doubting you... just would like to read it for myself.

Dave

[paul]

Hi Kev,

Welcome :wave:

It's a shame you don't have any energy :lol:.

I look forward to getting to know you, welcome to the neighborhood.

paul

[archyboi]

Oh, sure, I do. He is a regular contributor to Deseret Morning News Service, http://www.deseretnews.com/home. Do a search for his articles. Also go to his website, http://hatrack.com/. Read all about his anti-gay rhetoric. Google OSC or Orson Scott Card & homosexual and all his anti-gay commentary will pop up. Read them for yourself. I am -- NOW -- very aware of his Mormon theology woven into all his work. I highly recommend two books. Terryl S. Givens' By the Hand of Mormon & Sally Denton's American Massacre: The Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Don't be offended but just look closely at his picture on his website. I have seen leather daddies at Folsom Street Fair that looked EXACTLY like him! He'd fit right in. That's crude, but it's also true. MY gayometer buried the needle when I first read Ender's Game. I really thought he was speaking metaphorically for me -- Ender never was interested in females except as trusted battle partners & a cyber-virtual muse! HA!

I had no idea that he was just vomiting up Nauvoo & Joseph Smith mythology in the Alvin Maker series. He aslo writes the Hatrack book series -- which are overt Nauvoo mythology stories. Alvin Smith -- Joseph Smith. Come on people. Do I have to draw a picture?

Let me state this clearly. I loved his books. I feel so betrayed -- not by him -- but by my own gullibility, ignorance & stupidity. Things are never what the seem. One must read and educate onself. I never thought to find out about Mormonism until much later in life, much later than I read his stories.

Sorry, Scotty, but Ender's Game was truly his greatest work. It is an updated SciFi homage to Mary Renault's Alexander the Great Series. It's so obvious to me now. Andrew Wiggens is the reincarnation of Alexandros III of Macedon son and successor of Philippos II to be known in history as Alexander the Great. The commandant of Battle School even said this, remember? "We're looking for another Alexander the Great. I hope we find him before it's too late ..." Here's another clue. Ender had to develop a deep love for his enemy in order to figure out how to crush him -- HIM,get it? [Card cleverly covers this by making the Buggers feminine embodied by the Queen but his advesaries at Battle School were males.] Alexander did exactly the same and it was the secret of his spectacular success. The difference is that Alexander wouldn't oblitorate his enemy he would wack them hard and then belove them into his growing empire. He never lost a battle -- never. His friends and soldiers teased him for "going native". He took and used King Darius' Persian Battle Tent for his own on the rest of his Campaigns until after Hephaistion's death and took to dressing "Persian" because he liked it and thought he should be respectful to his conquered subjects in the land he Campaigned in. Speaker for the Dead & the Shadow Series ARE reimaginings of Renault's The Nature of Alexander: A Biography of Alexander the Great & Funeral Games. He puts a not so covert spin of the manifest destiny of Mormonism into the Celestial Cosmos too. Song Master is a reimagining of Renault's The Praise Singer.

I guarantee he read these books in his youth -- in the case of The Nature of Alexander & Funeral Games as he was writing the sequels -- and they imprinted upon his psyche to come out later in life.

Scotty said it right. He had no choice. It is very sad, tragic, actually. Love died within him in his youth and he is left with the distant shadow "approximation" of it allowed by the remnants of memories of the genuine article. Just like Reichen's beloved had no choice in the US Air Force Academy. You read that and I guarantee you will cry for them so harshly. I did.

It hurts so deeply and it's so monstrous.

I'm not ready to tell my sad tale yet but keep tuned I will ...

Just putting my view out there. You decide for yourself.

Thanks,

--Kev

[u-dog]

yup. he's a homophobe alright. I'm still not convince that he's a homo though. but whatever he is... his opionions are clearly toxic. How sad.

[GrantJordan]

Kevin- can you come over here and just talk face to face? It would be so refreshing to rattle all my brains out of my skull as well, and see what it all amounts to. I haven't been able to read all of your entries yet- they have come fast and furiously, passionately, full steam in the past few days. I feel like I would learn to put words to my amorphous speculations that have been silenced over the years by fundamentalism, playing it safe, and just hellish posing.

I am new here in being out and sadly on the other side of life. I wish I were 20 years younger and shaping out my beliefs into a life I could live over again. Sorry- today is a day with more regrets than insights about how valuable the lessons of life have been. I am angry and won't move into the passive complacent position I've chosen for years, so I could fit in and look like everybody else.

Thank you for sharing about those you've learned from. I have been eating up books and articles in the past months since being separated from my wife and am no longer an ignorant bum, waiting for a handout from the spiritual authorities. I've always been a closet maverick, now I am becoming a proud gay man. Someday's I shout about that, and someday's I just cry and mourn my losses. Life is beautiful and it's so new that sometimes I just don't recognize it- and I lost my rule book!!! Oh joy, and oh my!

Perhaps we will chat a bit together sometime. In the meantime, I will enjoy your posts. Thanks for shouting to those of us who are just waking up.

Grant

[archyboi]

I kinda have a lump reading your post. Listen, I KNOW how you feel. I don't know how it feels having kids and a wife, but I do know how you feel coming out later in life. I know you miss your wife. I pray your kids are kind and compassionate to you. This is the hardest part right now. Reflection and self-education are good but you need a sounding board and support network too. The gay community in Seattle is good. Hang out on Broadway Street some. See a movie at one of the art houses. There's a great gay bookstore there, don't remember the name but check it out. Robson Street in Vancouver is AWESOME; I loved going there when ever I could.

I talk a big game but I have my insecurities and failures in life too. A guy I have come to admire immensely says you never make "mistakes" only encounter lessons to be mastered ... perhaps not the first time around but never give up and keep trying the hardest you can till you acheive them and move on to the next. Keep going is the key.

That's pretty good advice for me too. For all of us.

I must admit that while the dark rainy days of Seattle in winter got me down, there were many things I loved. I loved going to the "Sound Garden" and vegitating. I loved walking around and plucking raspberries from all the wild hedges that grew EVERYWHERE and popping in my mouth, yum. I loved biking around Anacordes and taking the ferry to the San Juan Isles. I loved Victoria and Buchart Gardens. The Cascades are beautiful and so are the Olympics. I'm a major fan of the BR/BLM big damn projects -- seen them all, hiked and biked around them, Grand Coulee, Hoover, Glen Canyon. Grand Coulee is one the most magnificent natural catastrophic deluge flood formations in the world. Spokane is cool and so is Coeur D'Alene. The Palouse country has some the most beautiful landscapes in the world.

Oh, wow, the memories come flooding back -- bittersweet, I wish I could have done this with my love. Friends were great but a soulmate is irreplacable, not withstanding Greg Berlandt's contrarian view.

Let us help to left you up. Be strong. You will see happier days. And now you can be yourself fully. You are a worthwhile person and G-d loves you. So do we.

Smile in the mirror and take it a littel easier on someone special -- yourself.

What happened, happened. Become at peace with it.

--kev

[GrantJordan]

Kev- I'm re-inspired to love this place I live in after reading your recollection of fun times in the Pacific NW. I've been in a cave emotionally for the past 5 or so years and have not been able to enjoy much of life. Now I feel more whole and free to be the kick around guy I am naturally. So much of the 'unnatural' effect of being closeted is being shed almost daily. The pain of losing relationship with those who came from me, my children, and a woman I knew for more than 1/2 of my life, is so hard to carry.

I'm a guy who loves challenges and have ventured out into the world, the globe, chasing things bigger than me vocationally and spiritually, and now for a time am reduced to taking on smaller challenges daily- happy to get through them at least. I know that some day I will have the satisfaction again of being inspired inside and out. Hope that made some sense....I'm dreaming and rambling a bit there.

Thanks for your words. It's good to talk without edit or review. I've been burdened by that giant for awhile. I think he's taken my vacant spot in the cave because I'm not so bothered by him anymore. The committee that routinely met in my brain has largely adjourned.

I better go now- getting too abstract again. I can go on and on that way. My daughter asks me sometimes "what in the world are you saying, dad?" Thanks for listening anyway, Kev.

Grant Jordan

[Megandy]

Kev,
I'm impressed by your background of knowledge! I wish I knew more about history, because I think it's important when deriving meaning out of today! I look forward to reading your posts and discussions! Welcome!

-Megan

[Jennifer5]

Welcome, glad to have you here! :)