Goodbye, Cruel World

[Progo35]

Well, not really...just certain parts of the Gordon College community. Anyway, I am very concerned right now because I feel like my advisor(s) are giving me weird advice about my education.

Here it is:

1) Advisor A says that it doesn't matter what class I take in my last semester here even though this class is supposed to substitute for an important class that he was supposed to oversee and no "doesn't have time" to do. This class is on the foundational thought of Postmodernity. Since my Cultural studies degree is in Post Modern cultural studies, I would think that'd be important. Anyway, this guy and some others told me to take a youth ministry course or rec and leisure course instead. I emailed Advisor B who lives far away and he confirmed my instincts: this would not look good on a grad school application because those particular classes do not coincide with the rest of the program. But, Advisor A doesn't feel that I should take the class that Advisor B has suggested (he oversees this particular class.) Advisor C says that graduate schools are more concerned with how long it takes students to finish their work and that getting out quickly is more important than what classes I take.

2) For many students, especially honors students, which or whatever classes wouldn't matter at the very end...but I have other deficiencies in my application that aren't a big deal by themselves but add up, such as withdrawals when I have been ill with depression, etc. So, I don't need another problem to compound existing ones. So, in short, I'm confused about what to do: I'm taking another class (music history) as a substitute along with American Thought and Society (Modern history) and biology (core lab requirement.)

3) Now that I've chosen to do this, I'm confused about what to do in the spring. Should I come back and take the course that I was supposed to take in the first place (Postmodern philsophy) so that I can be sure that I have the right classes or should I not so as avoid taking another semester to complete everything?

4) If there are any music people out there who have studied or know someone who has studied musicology, I'm trying to look into resources, publications and forums that discuss that topic so that I have more freqent exposure to it. (I would like to pursue this discipline). So, any suggestions in that regard are also welcome.

[BrentRichards]

You scared me!

I don't have the music background to give you any of the advice you might want, but I'll remember you in prayer today!

[BruceChris]

Progo, I want to support you, and say that you should take the class that you wish to, and that would seem to be central to your major. But I have no practical understanding of your situation, and I cannot pretend that I do.

I find that I wish that you had an adviser that you trusted more, and who could give you something that felt like solid advice. Are there other people that are close to your situation, and that you could talk this over with?

Peace, Love, and Support, Bruce Chris

[Steven E. Webster]

Well, not really...just certain parts of the Gordon College community. Anyway, I am very concerned right now because I feel like my advisor(s) are giving me weird advice about my education.

Here it is:

1) Advisor A says that it doesn't matter what class I take in my last semester here even though this class is supposed to substitute for an important class that he was supposed to oversee and no "doesn't have time" to do. This class is on the foundational thought of Postmodernity. Since my Cultural studies degree is in Post Modern cultural studies, I would think that'd be important. Anyway, this guy and some others told me to take a youth ministry course or rec and leisure course instead. I emailed Advisor B who lives far away and he confirmed my instincts: this would not look good on a grad school application because those particular classes do not coincide with the rest of the program. But, Advisor A doesn't feel that I should take the class that Advisor B has suggested (he oversees this particular class.) Advisor C says that graduate schools are more concerned with how long it takes students to finish their work and that getting out quickly is more important than what classes I take.

2) For many students, especially honors students, which or whatever classes wouldn't matter at the very end...but I have other deficiencies in my application that aren't a big deal by themselves but add up, such as withdrawals when I have been ill with depression, etc. So, I don't need another problem to compound existing ones. So, in short, I'm confused about what to do: I'm taking another class (music history) as a substitute along with American Thought and Society (Modern history) and biology (core lab requirement.)

3) Now that I've chosen to do this, I'm confused about what to do in the spring. Should I come back and take the course that I was supposed to take in the first place (Postmodern philsophy) so that I can be sure that I have the right classes or should I not so as avoid taking another semester to complete everything?

4) If there are any music people out there who have studied or know someone who has studied musicology, I'm trying to look into resources, publications and forums that discuss that topic so that I have more freqent exposure to it. (I would like to pursue this discipline). So, any suggestions in that regard are also welcome.

Progo,
Your advisor might be right. Of course, you're not giving us much information here. What field are you planning to pursue in graduate school? What graduate school are you going to? You are receiving an undergraduate degree. Right? I kind of think that the grad school won't be so concerned about this particular course unless it was a specific prerequisite for your graduate studies.

Your advisor should be in a position to know these things better than we are.

Steven Webster

[Progo35]

Thanks, guys

Okay...some more specifics

1. I designed my own major through the school's honors program. This means that I was/am responsible for designing a program of study that is comparable in its requirements to those of a regular college degree program, including introductory, intermediate and final/advanced courses. I expect that graduate schools will take that into account when assessing my application: did I design a cohesive program? did I execute it effectively or did it become a mishmosh of various disciplines I enjoy? In respect to these questions, I would think that my application would be substantially weakened if it looked like I was not capable of recognizing when my own degree program was off track. Being wise to that kind of thing is one of the expections of students in those kinds of program.

2) The major I designed is called "post-modern cultural studies," and I have focused on how music has impacted the development of postmodern philosophy in society. Thus, my major is primarily a music/philosophy major, with introduction and final courses for each discipline. I have already completed my final courses in the music portion, the result of which was a paper on the relationship of Arnold Schoenberg's lieder to French/European symbolist poetry. Schoenberg's music was part of a trend among composers in the late 19th to mid twentieth centuries to create new music and get away from Wagnerianism. Through his work he developed atonal music and serialist organization, which enabled him to write and perform work without a central key. My belief is that this avante gaurd style anticipated postmodern thought, as this revolve(d,s) around transcending formerly held notions of truth and systems of construction in all art forms.

Anyhow, the point is to try to connect postmodern philsophy to the trends established in Modern music and how our exposure to this kind of avante guard artistic theory (even in our daily lives, in museums, on the radio, etc.) has articulated and preserved postmodern trends within our (American, Western) culture.

3) This particular class, "Kierkergaard and Postmodernism" was supposed to be a primary final/advanced course for my program thus act as a capstone in my study of postmodernism. I am concerned about how the degree will look if there is the one end project without the other philosophy final course to balance it.

4) I am also concerned that my advisor has lowered his expectations of my academic potential because I've been struggling with depression for two years and it has been extremely difficult for me to get my work done on time. Now, I can understand why he would be annoyed by this, but we talked about it at length and he assured me that he was okay with this. The other day, however, I asked him if he was annoyed with me because of this and he said, "yes, I am angry/annoyed with you." I started to cry and he said, "don't be so childish." It was really an awful conversation. I try very hard to communicate effectively with people but I need people to say what they are feeling/intending clearly. I wish he had told me about how my work was impacting his perception of me as a student so that I could have had more of an opportunity to fix it. Right now, I feel like there isn't anyone to help me who isn't also angry at me.

[BrianB]

It sounds like advisor A perhaps thinks that your course load is too heavy this semester on the one hand. Then it sounds like advisor C thinks that you need courses that will make you more well-rounded and finish school faster. Do you feel like the course load is too heavy? Is the degree program you have designed comparable to the degrees that people have obtained in you future field of work? Those questions would be my concern if I was your advisor.

[u-dog]

4) I am also concerned that my advisor has lowered his expectations of my academic potential because I've been struggling with depression for two years and it has been extremely difficult for me to get my work done on time. Now, I can understand why he would be annoyed by this, but we talked about it at length and he assured me that he was okay with this. The other day, however, I asked him if he was annoyed with me because of this and he said, "yes, I am angry/annoyed with you." I started to cry and he said, "don't be so childish." It was really an awful conversation. I try very hard to communicate effectively with people but I need people to say what they are feeling/intending clearly. I wish he had told me about how my work was impacting his perception of me as a student so that I could have had more of an opportunity to fix it. Right now, I feel like there isn't anyone to help me who isn't also angry at me.


Progo,

I also have struggled with Depression over the years. It is a reality and its impact on our productivity at various times is ALSO a reality. It is reasonable for you to adjust your academic load to accomodate the realities of your depression. It is also reasonable to treat the symptoms and causes of your depression to improve your ability to deal with expectations. If you are doing both of those things... you are acting reasonably. if you need to take an extra semester to do that or compromise your transcript a little in order to do that.. you are also being reasonable.

If you are acting as though you are not a person who deals with depression and because of that you are making everything more difficult for those around you then it is reasonable that your advisor is annoyed. However, if that is the case, then he needed to artictulate that to you directly and not wait to be asked.

If he, on the other hand, is just considering you "a weakling" because you are depressed and he secretly wishes that you would "snap out of it" or "just grow up" ... then you need a new advisor, because this one is a moron.

[animejunkie]

Thanks, guys

Okay...some more specifics

1. I designed my own major through the school's honors program. This means that I was/am responsible for designing a program of study that is comparable in its requirements to those of a regular college degree program, including introductory, intermediate and final/advanced courses. I expect that graduate schools will take that into account when assessing my application: did I design a cohesive program? did I execute it effectively or did it become a mishmosh of various disciplines I enjoy? In respect to these questions, I would think that my application would be substantially weakened if it looked like I was not capable of recognizing when my own degree program was off track. Being wise to that kind of thing is one of the expections of students in those kinds of program.

2) The major I designed is called "post-modern cultural studies," and I have focused on how music has impacted the development of postmodern philosophy in society. Thus, my major is primarily a music/philosophy major, with introduction and final courses for each discipline. I have already completed my final courses in the music portion, the result of which was a paper on the relationship of Arnold Schoenberg's lieder to French/European symbolist poetry. Schoenberg's music was part of a trend among composers in the late 19th to mid twentieth centuries to create new music and get away from Wagnerianism. Through his work he developed atonal music and serialist organization, which enabled him to write and perform work without a central key. My belief is that this avante gaurd style anticipated postmodern thought, as this revolve(d,s) around transcending formerly held notions of truth and systems of construction in all art forms.

Anyhow, the point is to try to connect postmodern philsophy to the trends established in Modern music and how our exposure to this kind of avante guard artistic theory (even in our daily lives, in museums, on the radio, etc.) has articulated and preserved postmodern trends within our (American, Western) culture.

3) This particular class, "Kierkergaard and Postmodernism" was supposed to be a primary final/advanced course for my program thus act as a capstone in my study of postmodernism. I am concerned about how the degree will look if there is the one end project without the other philosophy final course to balance it.

4) I am also concerned that my advisor has lowered his expectations of my academic potential because I've been struggling with depression for two years and it has been extremely difficult for me to get my work done on time. Now, I can understand why he would be annoyed by this, but we talked about it at length and he assured me that he was okay with this. The other day, however, I asked him if he was annoyed with me because of this and he said, "yes, I am angry/annoyed with you." I started to cry and he said, "don't be so childish." It was really an awful conversation. I try very hard to communicate effectively with people but I need people to say what they are feeling/intending clearly. I wish he had told me about how my work was impacting his perception of me as a student so that I could have had more of an opportunity to fix it. Right now, I feel like there isn't anyone to help me who isn't also angry at me.

I am looking into Gordon right now, How bad is the homophobia there, I would love to know, since I am looking into this school. Dude! your advisor sounds awful, I feel really bad for you! I totally understand your current situation since I was very depressed for two years, and my grades kept slipping, since I am guessing you have not divulged your true identity, that some people there probably have no true understanding of how you feel. I will be praying for you, I understand how hard it is to keep up on grades, while feeling so empty and miserable inside.

[SilverWolf]

Hi all - I graduated Gordon in 1978 and I was back this summer to visit long friends on the north shore who still live there after our graduation years ago. I bought into the entire thing of hiding my being gay, was married for over 22 years, have two wonderful daughers and now have the freedom to live with a wonderful partner who is not a believer, but that is for God to reveal himself to him in his time. I wanted to reply to you in pure honesty and prayerful humility, that you calm down and take it easy. Years from now, all of this will have little importance and these decisions will work themselves out if you just yield to God's direction by doors he opens and slams in your face. Be true to yourself and don't live a lie for anyone. God loves you and all of us the way we are. I am thinking about writing a book about 50 years of living, the changes, the hurt, the passions, the grief, the magnitude of my mistakes, drug addiction, long term survivor if HIV for over 25 years and still going.

Listen - if you can afford it - Gordon is a GREAT school that will lead you to think independently in the framework of the freedom of the family of God. I believe in the place and if you are simply looking for a college just to affirm your inner thoughts without challenge - then go surrender to the masses of pathetic sheep following the heard and go to U-Mass. God has shown me the marvels of the family of God - the true believers, and I know what it is like to loose 95% of friendships and families when my closet doors went flying open at 49 years old. The real christians are the ones that came IN, and not run out. Remember - God's people are purely this - "Considerate People, Considerate Service, Consider it DONE"! That is what being a servant is all about.

Get on your knees and pray and listen to what you hear.

My Best - SilverWolf - Orlando, Fl