Judge not

[ladyinred]

We all have a tendacy to judge others and ourselves. But the problem is judgment does not bring us joy or peace. Perhaps we learned to be self critical from our parents and developed the negative habit of being critical and fault finding. We need to learn that when we condemn ourselves or others we are imprisoning ourselves with guilt shame and reproach. Many people may have learned from their churches that these toxic beliefs are biblical but Jesus said not to judge. Lifelong habits take time to change. But think of love and judgement as opposites, think of anything that does not mirror love as a misperception. We need to change our perceptions and belief systems, struggling against them does not help , fighting does not help. I find certain meditations do work in helping me quiet that inner critic or judgement which comes from the wounded ego. But the ego is not reality it is only a concept and is incongruent with the belief in love. We need to learn to change our minds about our belief systems and what we learned. We really do not find happiness in judging ourselves and others.
What I notice with some people who come to this site is they use biblical quotes to bash gays and lesbians. Their belief systems is entirely based on a judgemental God waiting to punnish us for our "Sins" In that case I can see why people are turned off by the church.. One of the things I heard on my tapes is love does not condemn, we can make errors but instead of calling for punnishment there is really a correction process so we won't make the same mistakes again. Recycling guilt from past wrongs or perceived wrongs does not change destructive behaviors toward ourselves and others.We just end up doing the same things over again compulsively.Can you honestly relate to a God who is out to get you and strike you down and send you to hell? How would you feel about such a God , would you want him as a father to you?The bible is basically a book of parables, metaphors and allegorical, The hasadonean jews at the time were quite nationalistic at the time and believed that they were God's chosen ones but notice that many of the past writings and beliefs about God had evolved and changed over time in the bible .In the new testament the gentiles are seen as equally sharing in God's grace,not as despicable, Jesus said to be merciful even as your father in heaven in merciful. The new testament says to be kind to one another and to serve each other in love. The power of the written word can really influence the minds of people . We see what fear-based religion does to people it turns them often in to monsters.

[labguy22]

I have found Judging to be a manifestation of Pride. In order to judge, I must elevate myself above all others. I find it interesting that I have often judged a person within the first five minutes of knowing them. I learned to do this at a very early age from watching my family as well as going to church; that's where I really learned to judge!
I love that you broached this topic, it is an area I have been working to correct for quite awhile. 40 years of practicing this behavior has proven difficult to change. Difficult, but not impossible.
In the morning I offer up my Pride and ask to receive Humility; this has been a wonderful experience. Throughout the day, I also state out loud affirmations, which help keep me honest. I try to remember, who the hell am I that I should judge another?
I like to think of this as a work in progress.

[BruceChris]

I really like what you have written, and how well that you express beliefs that I have been working on for a long time. You seem to do it better than I have, so far. I especially like your line about the consequences of a fear-based religion. I'm glad you're back.

I find that my first awareness of these beliefs came after joining a "Course in Miracles" study group. Their most basic teaching seems to be that "All good things come from love, and all bad things come from fear".

I find that there seem to be an underlying parallel between the two sides of a number of dichotomies that I have encountered. In no particular order they are:

Love vs Fear
Hope vs Fear
Love vs Judgment
Humility vs Ego
(Listen vs Talk?)
The spirit of the value(law, belief) vs the letter of the value(law, belief)
The meaning or message of the Bible, variously taught and understood vs the word of the Bible, variously translated and understood
Humility vs Pride
Religion vs Science

There is also the case of "Love won out" vs "Truth won out", where I see that we seem to have been pre-empted; I would have chosen the subject of the phrases exactly oppositely.

There also seems to be a general criticism of dichotomies, the it's-either-true-or-it's-not approach to Truth; that all things are relative. But that is material for another thread.

Thoughts, anyone?

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[ladyinred]

I think it makes sense to bring up the subject of love versus judgement. But actually who are we to judge ourselves. Books I have read on fear based religion has taught me they are capable of doing monstrous things in the name of their beliefs about religion and God. It's like they cannot think for themselves. As far as hell.I seriously doubt God would send us to hell for eternity, most people live hell on earth as if that weren't punnishment enough.
I have to meditate and say affirmations to quiet my ego and inner critic.I have to tell it to SHUT UP. That's why I find people who come here to bible bash gays are doing it out of self righteousness and pride and I don't really think their true intention is to help but to shame and guilt people here into changing their lifestyles.


Too many people have tried that and failed, and failed. One woman was a preacher who had not admitted to her self she was a lesbian and she was involved in the process of telling gay people how wrong they were, she craved the power because of the position she was in.She later expressed regrets about her dishonesty, most of us have to an extent been dishonest with ourselves, I guess to try to conform and fit into the mold myself included.We all have leanred to be judgemental, either from our families, society, or churches (Unless there are other churches teaching the opposite)

I think of Mel White and what he wrote about himself, and then Jerry Falwell bashing him for leaving his family after he came to terms with being gay. A)If gays learned that they were acceptable in the first place, they would not try to change or lie to themselves and get married with the opposite sex, yet the religious right seems to think that is the cure.B) That causes people to live closeted lives and lie and creates a war within themselves, if they aren't successful at changing they may commit suicide, or go to extremes with other methods of so-called psychotherapy..I don't believe that Mel doesn't love his family,I just don't think he could go on the way he was trying to be what he was not.It must have created a great deal of turmoil for him (it has for me)

Why doesn't the religious right see that if people live a lie and try to become who they are not it will never work...DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.Why I bring up the bible is to show that it is not the absolute final word of God, IT is and was a work in progress, there are definite contradictions with the old and new testament in how they depict God. Christ did not depict God as vengeful or wrathful did he?Be merciful as your father in heaven is merciful he said.

But also notice that different people have various view points about God and what and who he/she is.Even the apostles did. I wonder if John in revelations wasn't hallucinating about revelations because Paul never said anything about it,nor did other apostles.One woman stated if your beliefs are not serving you, get rid of em.As far as those who act as authority figures in the right ,I seriously believe they are struggling with their own personal demons among other things.

I often wonder if James Dobson or Paul Cameron aren't repressed gays? Personally why would it bother them so much or why would it be such a big issue.It's ludicrous.Look at Haggerty he was vehemently anti gay...That should make us wonder about the rest of em.

[animejunkie]

I think it makes sense to bring up the subject of love versus judgement. But actually who are we to judge ourselves. Books I have read on fear based religion has taught me they are capable of doing monstrous things in the name of their beliefs about religion and God. It's like they cannot think for themselves. As far as hell.I seriously doubt God would send us to hell for eternity, most people live hell on earth as if that weren't punnishment enough.
I have to meditate and say affirmations to quiet my ego and inner critic.I have to tell it to SHUT UP. That's why I find people who come here to bible bash gays are doing it out of self righteousness and pride and I don't really think their true intention is to help but to shame and guilt people here into changing their lifestyles.


Too many people have tried that and failed, and failed. One woman was a preacher who had not admitted to her self she was a lesbian and she was involved in the process of telling gay people how wrong they were, she craved the power because of the position she was in.She later expressed regrets about her dishonesty, most of us have to an extent been dishonest with ourselves, I guess to try to conform and fit into the mold myself included.We all have leanred to be judgemental, either from our families, society, or churches (Unless there are other churches teaching the opposite)

I think of Mel White and what he wrote about himself, and then Jerry Falwell bashing him for leaving his family after he came to terms with being gay. A)If gays learned that they were acceptable in the first place, they would not try to change or lie to themselves and get married with the opposite sex, yet the religious right seems to think that is the cure.B) That causes people to live closeted lives and lie and creates a war within themselves, if they aren't successful at changing they may commit suicide, or go to extremes with other methods of so-called psychotherapy..I don't believe that Mel doesn't love his family,I just don't think he could go on the way he was trying to be what he was not.It must have created a great deal of turmoil for him (it has for me)

Why doesn't the religious right see that if people live a lie and try to become who they are not it will never work...DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.Why I bring up the bible is to show that it is not the absolute final word of God, IT is and was a work in progress, there are definite contradictions with the old and new testament in how they depict God. Christ did not depict God as vengeful or wrathful did he?Be merciful as your father in heaven is merciful he said.

But also notice that different people have various view points about God and what and who he/she is.Even the apostles did. I wonder if John in revelations wasn't hallucinating about revelations because Paul never said anything about it,nor did other apostles.One woman stated if your beliefs are not serving you, get rid of em.As far as those who act as authority figures in the right ,I seriously believe they are struggling with their own personal demons among other things.

I often wonder if James Dobson or Paul Cameron aren't repressed gays? Personally why would it bother them so much or why would it be such a big issue.It's ludicrous.Look at Haggerty he was vehemently anti gay...That should make us wonder about the rest of em.

Yeah... I went through so much suffering and pain, the church left me out in the cold. Was I turned off by Christianity then? Did I leave the lord? No actually I crept closer to God, but away from the church. Its a sad fate within the church right now, so much falseness, judgement, and hypocrisy. Church has literally become a fashion show, almost like high school. It may not occur at everyone's churches. But cliques should dissapear in church not grow stronger. I have many personal experinces with this, many (not all, there are some really nice nonjudgemental ones) shunned me, ignored me. One boy asked if I liked sports, I said no, I liked reading and writing, he ran away from me, as though I had the plague. Then talk of me being a fag began. I hate it! At youth group, I feel alienated, and even more depressed, and at Chrisitan Club at our school. Sometimes the kids would begin discussing how perverse "those kids" at GSA are, I secrectly joined that club this year. Big difference with Christian Club, the people are extremely nice. While I do not identify as gay there, fearing my mom may find out some way somehow, I pretend to be straight there. What is with Christians these days? I am not saying all, let me digress, there are many wonderful ones. But sadly there also some really mean, judgemental ones, who tried to turn me away from Christianity. Yet I latch onto God, knowing, I need no church to set my views, I need him, only him!