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psychboi85
09-28-2007, 12:17 AM
Today I had an interview with the director of a homeless shelter in Dallas. I was seeking an opportunity to work with homeless women and children. While I am in nursing school, we are to complete at least 8 hours of community service directed towards the area of nursing we are studying (in this case, mothers, women, and children). The shelter that I wanted to do some volunteer work is Christian based. They believe in meeting more than just their clients physical needs (clothes, food, and shelter) and promote spiritual guidance as well as taking care of their physical wants. I believe that spirituality (whatever that might entail) is one of many important needs that factor into one's overall well-being, so I had no problem with the mission of this shelter.

I was thoroughly disappointed by the interview I had with the director of the shelter today, however.

Upon meeting with him, he basically drilled me about what I believed. He asked me why I believe Christianity versus all the other religions out there. All my answers started with, "well, I believe..." which was unsatisfactory to him. It was "too subjective and based on opinion", he said. He then proceeded to explain how one could "know" that Christianity was the truth. He asked me why I wasn't in church, why I couldn't make time to go to church every week, and advised me to "get my priorities straight" (which means church before everything). He also asked some intrusive questions about my father and his recent decision to stop pastoring. At the end he offered me a deal: Find a church to go to, and he would consider letting me do a children's chapel service; otherwise, I could answer the phones or serve a meal at the men's shelter.

This all upset me very much. This man had an agenda he wanted to push from the very beginning: What he believed was the only "right" way, the only "truth" that there is. Anything else was illogical opinions or based on lies.

The absolute fact of the matter is this: When you strip Christianity down to its basic belief, it is based solely on what a person chooses to believe. There is no way to prove that Jesus takes away sin. There is no way to prove that there is a heaven and hell after death. These are beliefs and opinions that Christians hold, and we make a choice to believe them. There are many aspects of Christianity that are true and are factual. It seems to me, however, the parts of Christianity that really matter are not like this. I believe the God would not have given us a free will if God wanted us to have "facts" to trust instead of "faith" to believe in.

Church has its benefits, but it isn't everything. When I look at the life of Jesus, he spent far more time OUT of church than IN the church. He was out feeding the hungry, healing the sick, loving others instead of lecturing to them. He wasn't with the preachers, he was with the prostitutes. Is church really more important than family? Is it more important to God that you attended church every week than spending quality time with your loved ones frequently? If that is what is true, please let me live my life believing a delusion.

We human beings have an innate desire for something more than ourselves. People meet this need in a variety of ways - healthy and self-destructive. Religion is nothing more than an organized system to help people meet this need (a relationship with that which is more than us). It isn't always right, and it isn't all that there is. I can't say that all the other world religions are not helpful to people, and I can't say that all the believers of other world religions are going to burn in hell.

I think when it's all over, and when eternity is before us, we will be shocked at how many Christians are in hell, and how many Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Islamists, Muslims, Unitarian Universalists [insert non-Christian religion here] are in heaven. A label is nothing more than a label; it does not mean it's the real thing. Jesus is the only way to God, this I believe. I do, however, believe that there are other ways to get to Jesus than through your local Baptist church.

A good friend of mine made an excellent point I want to bring up, "it's important to be a part of the church. I don't think that if you're not in one you're going to hell, or you have your priorities off. However, I believe 100% that it's imperative for us to get connected with other believers. Those relationships help build us up and keep us accountable. Also, I think it's helpful for us to look at what has been revealed to others (ie sermons) to help our own relationship..."

Church meets so many needs that can't be met outside of it. I actually enjoy church and what it promotes.
Think about this: When God created the world, God didn't establish a church or set the framework for how churchs should be run; God established human relationships. I wonder if that doesn't have some significance for us today.

scrupulous_stoic
09-28-2007, 12:27 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but can he actually use your father's situation against you, especially in that setting?

I am sorry to hear about your frustration. I am not a Christian, but I do believe that adherents of any religion, no matter what it is, find deeper appreciation for their beliefs when they are outside the confines of a religious institute. Then, one can truly perceive the outside world, rather than rely on the doctrine of a pastor, priest, abbot, rabbi, imam, and so forth. It leads to the augmentation of wisdom, and of a more balanced view on life in general.

I hope your situation improves.

-Bennett

Daniel
09-28-2007, 08:08 AM
This all upset me very much. This man had an agenda he wanted to push from the very beginning: What he believed was the only "right" way, the only "truth" that there is. Anything else was illogical opinions or based on lies.

Jesus: save me from your followers.

Like you, I think community is important. There is community here, for instance. And all in all, I think we do a pretty good job of listening to one another without getting preachy.

Some can't do this. They have to have their minds fixed around God like he/she was an object. And so tight is their hold, their faith becomes as rigid as their grip, killing the very thing they prize.

I'm sorry this man treated you with is the way that he did. That said, he may have been giving you the kind of treatment he expects his staff to give those who are unfortunate enough to land there. It this what homeless people need?

pnggrad79
09-28-2007, 08:08 AM
I believe the root of Christianity IS that Jesus died to take away our sin. Everything else is fluff. The whole point of the Bible-everything from Adam and Eve to Revelation is ABOUT God's plan to reconcile sinful man with Himself. Now while I do not necessarily hold to all Southern Baptist beliefs, for example, I think they pay lip service to the notion of grace, I do believe their beliefs about Jesus' mission on earth, because I believe the Bible backs it up. I also think they are judgmental and backward on their opinions of gay people. But I digress...

I am sorry you were treated so rigidly and judgmentally by this guy. He evidently is one of those Baptists who mean well, but come off as judgmental and narrow minded. What business is it of his where and when you go to church (as if that makes you a Christian)? Moreover, it is not his place to project his displeasure about your father's decision to leave the ministry onto you. This man does not know your father nor does he know the reasons why your father did what he did, and it is not his place to judge him for it. That is between your father and God.

sailaway58
09-28-2007, 04:41 PM
People don't want to know if you believe, they want to know if you believe like them. Nothing else is true belief.
God help us!

Daniel
09-28-2007, 05:01 PM
People don't want to know if you believe, they want to know if you believe like them. Nothing else is true belief.
God help us!

One of the foibles of being human perhaps. That is, we can be so damn self-referential.

animejunkie
09-29-2007, 11:24 PM
I have my reasons of not going to church and attempting to go to Christian club at school, there is a huge lack of community and a feeling of an exclusive social party. Its such a pity, I have tried other religions, the hypocrisy and judgemental manner of some christians turned me off. Of course, I soon came back to God, but I have my own beliefs in certian areas like homosexuality (when in a monogamous manner like heterosexuality then it is not a sin), why? Its the only religion that made sense and gave me a sense of fullfillment. Wiccan is stupid and a waste of time. Anyways, I am sick of all the trash talk and hate that some many christians lay upon gay people. I was so mad this past Thursday from all the homosexual harrassment within the Christian Club at school that I left. No one noticed, I pretty much do not even exist there.

u-dog
09-30-2007, 03:38 AM
I have my reasons of not going to church and attempting to go to Christian club at school, there is a huge lack of community and a feeling of an exclusive social party. Its such a pity, I have tried other religions, the hypocrisy and judgemental manner of some christians turned me off. Of course, I soon came back to God, but I have my own beliefs in certian areas like homosexuality (when in a monogamous manner like heterosexuality then it is not a sin), why? Its the only religion that made sense and gave me a sense of fullfillment. Wiccan is stupid and a waste of time. Anyways, I am sick of all the trash talk and hate that some many christians lay upon gay people. I was so mad this past Thursday from all the homosexual harrassment within the Christian Club at school that I left. No one noticed, I pretty much do not even exist there.

Hi Kyo!

This reminds me of what my mom used to say. she was a Christian and a faithful hardworking member of our church (a place full of wonderful people) but she would still get frustrated sometimes and say "The church would be such a wonderful place... if it weren't for the people" The problem with Christians is that... we're all human beings and occasionally act like assholes. If the Christian club at school is not a healthy place for you then stay away from it. Find the people who will appreciate you for who you are. The theater department and the music department are usually good places to find open-minded and accepting people.

JUST DON'T GET DISCOURAGED ! God made you who you are and he made you as you are for a purpose. Think of the hard stuff you are going through now as "basic training" for the work God has for you to do. I'm not suggesting that God is CAUSING all this crap but God WILL USE all the crap to make you stronger if you work with him.

Oh! and don't forget that we are a mixed bunch here. We have some wonderful folks among us who are Wiccan and budhist and jewish and other faiths as well. So while Wicca may not be for you (its not for me either!) its probably also not stupid or a waste of time.

Glad you're here Kyo! :love: Stay strong.

Dave

Daniel
09-30-2007, 09:58 AM
. Anyways, I am sick of all the trash talk and hate that some many christians lay upon gay people. I was so mad this past Thursday from all the homosexual harrassment within the Christian Club at school that I left. No one noticed, I pretty much do not even exist there.

Surface-deep-Christianity. That's what it sounds like. Stratch it and it's entirely different underneath.

I think the measure of any faith is now it treats the outcasts, misfits and undesireables.

That said, you remind me of my school teaching days, where I observed that kids- especially grade school kids, can be incredibly kind as well as incredibly cruel. If they're lucky, they acquire some manners as they get older, but a great many of them don't. They zoom in on 'difference' as they did when younger, ridiculing and demeaning; in an effort, I believe, to fit in, which makes them feel safe, or taller- as if this were only possible atop a pile of bodies underneath, crushed by condemnation.

That isn't Love.

antiochian
10-03-2007, 05:18 PM
The man had no right to grill you as he did. What does whether you believe in A, B, C, or D have to do with the fact that you are there to help disadvantaged people? He should have been grateful you came through the door wanting to help out!

I have some Baptist aunts with whom I'm very close--and they accept me 100%.

If you really wanted to make his fur fly, you should should have answered him, "I'm a Catholic. I go to mass every day and ingest Christ's flesh and blood in the Eucharist. I pray to the Holy Mother of God and to the saints, and I pray for the souls in purgatory and for the dead. I have a finger bone of St. Therese in my closet that I kneel before and kiss every day.... etc., etc." Sit back, grab a bowl of popcorn and watch the fireworks! :eek:

It's really funny sometimes to watch the different flavors of Christians ripping each other apart, saying that this group isn't Christian or anyone who belives in infant baptism isn't Christian, and on and on. And of course, everyone thinks they alone have the truth... everyone wants to be pope. Basically, if you nod and agree with everything the person is saying, you're a true Christian--otherwise, watch out!

Anyhow, good luck.