I need some advice from wiser ones... [Archive]

sundance896

09-30-2007, 10:04 PM

Hi, my name is Ashley and I'm new to both this forum and the GLBT community. I'm 18 years old and was raised as a fundamentalist Christian. I wondered if I was gay all through high-school, but attended a Christian school... so no room to breathe there. Right after graduation, I started working at an animal hospital where I made a fast and close friend, whom I soon learned was gay. My initial response as the good Christian girl was "That's wrong because it says so in in the Bible." But I wasn't going to stop being her friend because I was oddly drawn to her, just as I had been to a few other girls during HS. One thing led to another and she is now my wonderfully loving girlfriend. We've been officially together for three months now and I can't imagine life without her. This is my first relationship, I've never been with a guy and I'm positive I'm not just experimenting. I know what I want in life and she's it.
Well, now I'm at college out of state and she's still at college back home (it's only 4 hours, but it's seems like an ocean away). Well, all summer I kept two separate lives because my parents certainly would not approve. I figured I wouldn't have to be so careful at college bc of the distance. She's been coming up to see me every few weeks and it's been fine. Well, last weekend I did something stupid: I found a ride back home and surprised her. That's not the stupid part... that part is the fact that I used my debit card and for some reason my mom looked at my transaction history. I knew I was in a lot of trouble and decided to intercept my dad before he got home from work. I came out to him right then and there... I didn't expect to do that. He was angry at first but then started talking to me rationally. He was in shock, I've now discovered because the tone of our conversations have become more and more hostile. I wasn't planning on coming out to my mom quite yet. She's very traditional and narrow-minded as well as very emotional. I was forced to come out, however because she called me and asked if my dad knew that I was in a lesbian relationship. I had to say yes bc I decided I was done with lying.
The most difficult part is not having my girlfriend with me. I was planning on coming out at some point, but not this soon. And I wanted to have an established life, not just a summer. Also, my parents have said that if, on my breaks, if they come pick me up from school, I can't see my girlfriend. I have to find and pay my own way down if I want to see her. They've made it clear that they don't want anything to do with our relationship.
This week has been very difficult and I have a few things I need some advice on.
-My pastor's going to be calling me to try and de-gay me. I don't want to argue with him, I just want to make it clear that this is who I am and how I want to live my life. How can I do that while still being respectful?
-How can my girlfriend help me? This is a very stressful time for our relationship, especially while it's so young. What can she do to support me even though she's not with me?
-How long should I give my family? I don't want to go home to a hostile environment. I also want to see my girlfriend on holidays. We also KNOW that we are going to spend the rest of our lives together. When is the point that I separate myself from my family because they want nothing to do with the best thing that's ever happened to me. I would love to spend all of my holidays and breaks with my girlfriend, but I still feel that I owe my family something. I've had to construct an itinerary already for when I go home for Thanksgiving about how many days I'm spending in each "world". I don't like weighing my loves like that.

I have a few more questions as well, but this is getting lengthy. Please feel free to ask questions, I know there's a LOT of backstory missing... I didn't want to bore you. Thank you so much for your time.

-Ashley

Zerbie

09-30-2007, 10:24 PM

:pray:
Oh goodness, that's a lot to deal with all at once. Not sure I have any wisdom for you, my experience having been so different from yours.

Regards your pastor calling: I am guessing your parents asked the pastor to call? Perhaps you could simply politely say "thank you for your good intentions, but I am perfectly content as I am." And then when he says "but, XYZ," you can play a polite broken record. "I know you mean well, but I am content just as I am." Etc. I don't know what the other, wiser, forum members will think of that as a suggestion. But considering that you are not the one intitiating the phone call, I think you are perfectly within your rights as an adult to not open that conversation up if you do not want it.

As for being torn between family and your romantic life, that will be different once you are out of school and able to support yourself. As long as your finances are limited, you have the added complication of needing to please those who are paying your bills.

I hope that given time, your family will come to be more accepting and even supportive of you. In the meantime, it never hurts to check out your hometown PFLAG and see who you can connect with there who may have wiser insights for getting along with your parents. There may be a mom or dad in your local PFLAG who might "speak your parents' language," as it were, who might be able to help your parents through what is clearly stressful for them as well. If there is any chance your parents might be open to such a conversation, I would definitely suggest it. A third-party who has been there before can often be very helpful. They can advocate for you while still empathizing with your parents.

I don't know if any of this helps. But I am sure many others will weigh in soon with other ideas/insights which may be more helpful than what I've put out there.

Anyway. Welcome. :)

Alecto

09-30-2007, 10:37 PM

A friend of mine lost her family because they're jehovah's witnesses and she came out as transgender. I watched her mother call and email her every few weeks almost cruelly, and it made me very angry to watch someone hurt my friend like that. That said, she was adament that she would not be the one to close any doors. She had the benefit of having an off-campus apartment, so she wasn't exactly homeless on breaks (she was kicked out of her house), so things aren't quite the same but what I'm trying to get at is that they need to realize that this is about WHO you are. And you need to be able to go on living your life. That might be able to happen still living with them, or it might not, but ultimately the ball will be in their court. My friend's outlook was: if they figure out how to deal, she made sure they know that she'd always welcome them into her home, even if the inverse isn't true.

::hug::
At very least, welcome to the forums. There's a lot of wise, kind, and loving folks here. I hope things work out for you.

u-dog

09-30-2007, 11:03 PM

Ashley,

First of all... welcome. You are among friends here.

second, don't forget to breathe. None of this is going to be resolved instantaneously and right now everyone is all reved up and hyperventilating. You, your parents, probably your girlfriend as well. Let the dust settle a little bit. Talk to your girlfriend on the phone, cry together, laugh together, scream together. You have a lot of emotions stored up around this issue and how your parents are reacting. share those with your beloved. Its OK to express your anger and frustration as well as your grief. All of that is normal. You aren't being a bad daughter if you are angry with your parents and the best person to share that with is your best friend.

Third. your pastor. Zerbie's advice is good. Tell him "thanks" for being willing to make contact with you, that you understand it must have been a difficult thing to call you but that you are not ready to talk with him about these very personal matters right now. If he persists ... the broken record idea is a good one.

Him: But Ashley you know that this is a sin blah, blah blah..."
You: Pastor Joe, I really appreciate your call... but I'm not ready to talk to you about this.
Him: "But Ashley...."
You: "Pastor Joe... I love you but I'm hanging up now. I'll call you when I'm ready to talk"
Him: "But..."
You: <click>

This is YOUR information and YOUR life. You get to control who you talk to about it. Maintaining control over that information is not being disrespectful (or doesn't need to be). When you DO feel ready to talk to him... definately call him back.

Fourth. Your parents. remember that you have had .. what?... 4 or 5 years at least to consider the reality that you are gay. Your folks have had ... 4 or 5 days? give them as much time as they need. be patient with them and ... as the bible says... don't return evil for evil. be understanding of the fact that they can't be understanding of what you are going through.

At the same time, you can't control the decisions that they make or the the attitudes that they adopt. You can only control your own. If they decide -- even for a short time -- that they can't share you with your girlfriend, that is THEIR decision to make. You CAN though decide what you are going to do. You can pay for your own trips home (get rides with friends, save your money, don't order pizza out, buy your books online etc etc etc) then split your time between your folks and your girlfriend. Make it clear, in as calm and respectful a way as you can, that you don't feel any need to choose between them and your girlfriend, and that you hope that they won't force you to choose because thats not what you want.

None of This is going to be easy. There is LOTS of heartache ahead Ashley. Lean on your girlfriend. Spend LOTS of time in prayer and lay most of this burden on God. Love and respect your parents even when they don't deserve it and stand your ground quietly, and calmly.

Does this make sense? I have three kids of my own in college and I ache for you sweetheart! I wish that you didn't have to go through this. We will all be praying that your folks come around and that your relationships will all be healed.

stay strong! :pray::love::pray::love::pray::love:

pnggrad79

10-01-2007, 08:03 AM

Ashley,
Coming out is hard on several fronts. Parents are a particularly tough one, because they had dreams for you (a wonderful husband, grandchildren, white picket fence, the whole nine yards). They probably feel that none of that will ever happen for you, and they may feel like they did something wrong. Parents have a guilt factor built in. It is crucial for you at this point to show that you are happy with your life, that you love your gf and that a happy life is what you want. You don't have to give up a family if that is what you want. You don't have to settle for being alone because you are gay. You can find a church that accepts you.

Pastors and churches- Hmm, another tough one. They will tell you that you are wrong and deceived. Do your research. Read some books that Mel White has written on this subject. Holy Homosexuals by Mike Piazza, The Children Are Free by Jeff Miner are good ones, too. They will help you in your defense. Pastors and church people tend to want to "fix" you and you don't need fixing.

The most important thing you need to remember is that there is nothing wrong with you. Determine for yourself that no matter what happens, God does love you, always has and always will, and that He wants to give you an abundant life. A life full of love, joy, peace, and fulfillment. Whatever that means to you, that is what He wants for you, gay and everything.

Blessings to you and your gf. :)

tdogg

10-02-2007, 07:04 PM

Hi Ashley and welcome!

Yes to all that's been said already! Definitely get yourself some support, PFLAG, do some reading, videos, anything to help you find answers and understand you are just fine the way you are. Also to help you in dealing with those loved ones who might not be too supportive or accepting.

Support is the key. Your girlfriend might not be in a position to be able to help you out too much. Just knowing what you are going through, communicate, listening to you, comforting you. That is great support.

Hang in there girl! It will get better, but the going can be tough at times. :love:

sundance896

10-03-2007, 05:31 PM

u-dog

10-03-2007, 05:51 PM

You continue to be in our prayers, Ashley. :pray: Continue to keep us up to date and let us know what we can do to be helpful. I'm sorry to hear that your "pastor" felt that his first responsibility in this situation was to try to cut you off from the table of the Lord. I hope that you know that the only person who can turn you away from the Table is Jesus himself... Somehow I don't see that happening.

Don't forget through this hard time that God loves you. :love:

sailaway58

10-03-2007, 05:58 PM

Ashley,
Is your mom by any chance a reader? If she is I would give her a small list of things to read and not come home for Thanksgiving unless she read them.
Tell her that if she loves you and wants to understand what you are going through she needs to read the books. The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships (http://www.soulforce.org/application.php?application=amazon&action=showdetails&amazon_id=13)
If she is only interested in condemning you or wants you to change, have her watch the video Fish Can't Fly (http://www.fishcantfly).
When she gets shitty with you tell her all she is accomplishing is pushing you further away. Stay calm if you can.
The people on this site that have gone through this have much better advice than I do so use them for ideas and support.

tdogg

10-03-2007, 07:23 PM

Hi Ashley,

Another book suggestion is Straight Parents, Gay Children. Excellent, easy to read, real life examples.

I came out later in life, I have some family who cannot 'go there' with me. I'm welcome to their house (one is a sister, another my stepmom = dad is a stroke victim- and yet another a close aunt), but my partner is not. They do not talk about me being a lesbian, they do not talk about my relationship and do not address my partner is any way in conversation.

I choose not to attend family events because I want to spend the time with my partner. Of course, we've been together nearly 3 years, but I pretty much felt the same way the first year we were together. I feel it's their choice not to have me there, as my choice is to be with my partner whether it's at our house or somewhere else.

But you have to meditate on it and do what's right for you. The lame accusation that you are selfish, pretty much means that they are disappointed you are living your own life and not living the life they expect of you. In that regard, lay the selfishness on them. It's very selfish for others to expect one to live according to their own expectations and beliefs. You aren't being selfish, I'm sure you are a very generous and loving individual - you are just living your own life which you are entitled to do.

:love::pray:

tymejumper

10-03-2007, 08:47 PM

My girlfriend has told me I can spend Thanksgiving with her and her family. I just don't know which to sacrifice.... time with family (which may be pretty uncomfortable and hostile) or time with my girlfriend (who I only see twice a month if I'm lucky).

Ashley,

You are So brave to come out! I got married to a man and had three kids trying to be straight.

My father just finally, after 3 years, is getting to accept me. This is how I did it. I told him that I was gay, and that I met a woman and planned a life with her. He did not have to accept me or like I was gay, but it was who I am and that he had a choice to make. If he wanted to see me and be part of my life, he needed to treat my partner with respect when he saw her. Just as I treated his girlfriend, he was to treat mine the same way. I told him that either way he decided he was still my father but the ball was in his court and he had to make a decision. Then I waited. 3 years, but at least he talks to me and will meet my partner respectfully now.

My advice, for what its worth, follow your heart. The way I see it, is that if you go to your familys, they will make your hoilday Hell and try to get you to change straight(like its a choice). They will hound you. On the other hand you can have a nice holiday with the woman you love and meet her folks who are obviously accepting and supportive. She must love you to hang in there and if she is the right one, she will support you. So, you could have an absoulutly lovely holliday, and your family may get off their high horses if you DONT show up, they will know your serious.

Children growup and find their own lives, that is what you are doing, if your parents dont agree, they dont need to be part of it, just cause they made you, does not mean they get to run your life forever!

God Bless and Much Metta,
Rebekah

Daniel

10-03-2007, 10:40 PM

Ashley- Sailaway has put his finger on something: parents can be pretty shitty. Just think about it. Would your mother be saying you are being selfish if you were dating a guy? I bet not. Parents can act really dumb when their kids come out to them. Mine said really stupid and horrible stuff. It's because they were running scared.

Like Rebekah, I gave my parents an ultimatum, saying that I wouldn't attend Thanskgiving (my mother withdrew the invitation to my then boyfriend) without him. He attended. Yes. It was uncomfortable in some respects, but it set the tone for the future. And in retrospect, I believe that was the moment I earned some respect in my parents eyes. I grew up. And starting standing in my own shoes.

Having the guts to stand up for one's self can be terrifying and very hard. It can challenge us to the core. But my sense is that we all have to do it one way or another. I learned one huge thing as a consequence of putting things on the line with my folks, and that is this we teach people how to treat us.

You'll have to figure out just how far you want to go with your parents in this situation. But if you barter away your 'truth' in order for others to be 'happy', please keep in mind that no one will be happy. Giving in to emotional bullies only makes one angry. It's a transgression of boundaries.

The more you are making your own way in the world, the easier this kind of thing is. However, if you are still tied to your parents financially, this can make things much more difficult. Then they will feel as though they have a right to tell you what to do. Of course, they love you and want the best for you.

Know what? Best I can say is this: stand strong in your truth and let them know that you love them- and that you always will. Give them what you want them to give you.

rainbow7

10-03-2007, 10:41 PM

Hi- thank you all so much for replying. I'm sorry I haven't replied sooner but I've been very busy with school and the situation I described above. I had a talk with the pastor yesterday... my voice was very calm but I'm glad it was over the phone because I wouldn't have wanted him to see my hands shaking like they were. He point-blank asked me if I intended to continue the relationship that I was in. I said yes and he very politely told me that he would proceed with the process of excommunicating me. So that was a fun new life experience (:disagree:).
Today my mom called and I had a twenty minute heated argument about everything. She keeps accusing me of being so selfish and is pretty much telling me I'm doing this on purpose. She just doesn't believe that this could be me. She also said that Thanksgiving wasn't finalized yet, which I thought was. If they change their minds and tell me I can't see my girlfriend no matter how I get down there, what should I do? My girlfriend has told me I can spend Thanksgiving with her and her family. I just don't know which to sacrifice.... time with family (which may be pretty uncomfortable and hostile) or time with my girlfriend (who I only see twice a month if I'm lucky).
Again, thank you all for taking the time to reply. Your comments have given me a lot to think about and consider.

Thanks,
Ashley

Ashley, you have gotten great advice and I really can't add much....except to encourage you not to "burn any bridges" with your parents. We are all praying that they will wake up and realize that they are wrong and that you are beautiful, just the way you are....and that their job is just to love and accept you. Sometimes it seems like a short-term separation gives families space to work through difficult times, so if you decide to have Thanksgiving with your girlfriend's family, it might enable everyone to calm down until cooler heads prevail. How wonderful that your girlfriend's family is so welcoming.

But even if you decide not to see your parents for a while, please try to stay in touch with them; e mail or send a note to reassure them that you still love them and that you are okay. Then when they wake up and see the light, it will be easier for them to reach out to you.

Judging from what you shared about your pastor and how conservative your church is, it's clear your parents are going through some grief. They have to let go of a huge part of their reality -- the way they always thought things would be -- and open themselves to a whole new understanding. I can hear the pain, hurt and anger that you feel, and I'm not suggesting you must give up your feelings. Your feelings are totally understandable.

But don't give up on your folks... just let yourself be held by all of the love and support that everyone here is offering you. Know that God is loving you through everyone who reaches out to you, and it is the same God who is loving your family and aching with you and with them, for the brokenness of the world. And it is the same God who can bring healing into the midst of the pain you and your family feel.

I am so glad that you have found a loving relationship with your girlfriend, and I pray that the day may come soon, when your parents will also rejoice for you. Be good to yourself!

Polly

sundance896

10-07-2007, 10:55 PM

Unfortunately, time is not making things better, it's making them worse. I have a short break coming up this week and I had made arrangements to get home on my own money. Everything was set and then my mom called and asked me if I had many classes on Friday because she wanted to pick me up for the weekend on Thursday afternoon. She had forgotten it was my break. I told her politely that my friend was driving me down Wednesday afternoon and my girlfriend would pick me up. My girlfriend just visited me this past weekend and I was very excited to be able to see her again so soon. The next time I would see her after this break would be the beginning of November. I'm not sure why my mom asked me to skip classes and come with her. My guess is that it would be a last-ditch attempt to get me to chicken out... the pastor will probably announce my excommunication this upcoming weekend.
I thought everything would be okay (my mom simply asked me to come visit), but I got a message from my dad this evening telling me to check my email. The email said that he and my mom met with my girlfriend's parents (:confused:) today. He proceeded to provide me with a long list of dirt about my girlfriend, as if it would come as a shock to me. I know she's done a lot of bad things and made some bad decisions that she regrets immensely, but I know about them all and I've come to terms with them. I have literally, in the time that I've known her and we've been together, watched her change before my eyes. She's dealt with a lot of rough stuff in her life and unfortunately turned to binge drinking. I made it very clear that I did not like the way she behaved when she was drunk. She doesn't drink at all anymore.
At the end of this laundry list, there was the fact that her parents assured them that I would not be allowed to stay overnight anymore. They assume that we have a completely physical relationship and there's no emotional depth. They expect it to die if there is no physical access. I'm very upset about this because I was tricked into not seeing her on my breaks. They got me to agree that if I found a way down by myself, I would be able to see her. So that's what I did. They got me to agree that when I was staying with my family, I was to spend my time exclusively with them, I could not visit my girlfriend unless I was staying with her for a few days. I agreed to that. Except now I can't stay with her... I have to stay with my family which means I have to be exclusively with them.
At this point, I'm ready to end everything with my family. I'm just not sure where I'll go if that happens though. My girlfriend is moving into an apartment next year but that's a long time from now. She's only staying with her parents right now because she was honorably discharged from the military and is trying to get back on her feet financially. The thing that makes me the angriest is that a) I had told my dad that he didn't know my girlfriend and I offered to tell him about her... but he went and dug up all the things that she's not proud of instead of learning about the good things... like the fact that she makes me laugh like no one else, she takes my breath away and she flat-out treats me like gold. and b) the fact that her parents didn't stand up for her... they are constantly concentrating on her faults to the point that she feels like a failure.
I guess I just need some advice on what to do about my visit this week. If I can't see my girlfriend then I'm just going to stay here. But I don't want to give my parents the satisfaction of knowing that they kept her from me. I also don't want to miss this opportunity to see my girlfriend because I get so few of them. I've been trying to think of people that I could stay with but none of my high-school friends would be supportive of this relationship and I don't want to impose on anyone either. I'm very lost and upset right now and I was hoping things wouldn't come to this. Thank you all so much for reading and responding.

Ashley

Zerbie

10-07-2007, 11:40 PM

Ashley,

:( I'm sorry. I wish I knew what to say. Hang in there! Maybe your gf can get on her own financial feet by January or so, for the spring semester - then it's only a matter of getting through the next few months. :confused:

I hope that things will resolve for the better soon. :pray:

u-dog

10-08-2007, 08:09 AM

Ashley,

You are very sad and hurt and I completely understand that. The person that you are and the person that you love and the love that is SO IMPORTANT to you are all being disrespected by the people in your life that mean most to you. It totally sucks. Truly.

You thought that you were dealing honestly with your parents and they with you. that they had set boundaries with regard to your relationship to your gf and that you had set boundaries and that there was agreement about respecting those boundaries. Then you found out that your folks didn't care about the agreement. They just want to use WHATEVER leverage they can to do "whats good for you". To be manipulated and lied to like that is ENRAGING. They are treating you like the child that they think you still are.

I also understand them... (being a parent myself!) They see you driving at full speed toward what they think is a huge deep chasm and they want to stop you at all costs ... because they love you. I'm not telling you to NOT BE ANGRY at being jerked around by them. You have every right and reason to be angry. Just don't hate them... cuz they love you and thats why they are acting like this. (believe me ... seeing our children in percieved danger makes us parents turn into TOTAL LUNATICS!)

Our son is in a relationship with a girl that we don't think is right for him... but he loves her. She's not a horrible person by any means and if he ends up marrying her it won't be the end of the world... but we have to keep repeating the mantra "its his life... its his life.. its his life" so that we don't say something stupid and hurtful out of our love for him.

I'm just counseling you to BE PATIENT. Yes, it may get worse before it gets better. But you are young and there is lots of time in the future to work this stuff out (I know... I can't help the fact that I'm old and say "old people things! you gotta bear with me! :rolleyes:) Stay in close contact with your gf by phone! talk to her and share feelings with her as much as you are able with the form of contact you have. Can you get a webcam for your computer and one for her? Instant voice messaging can be a little step toward being together when you can't be together. just a thought.

I also counsel you to write out your feelings -- either by email or by letter -- to your family. Tell them how their actions make you feel. The way you wrote it to us is a good start. You thought you had an agreement and you feel betrayed by their conversation with GF's parents. use "I" statements. "I feel" "I want" "I need" "I am going to/ not going" Don't try to justify your homosexuality or your relationship to GF. Just tell them how their actions make you feel. Tell them what the rules are in your relationship... how you expect them to treat you. Be calm, be loving, be respectful , but be firm and clear.

If they start in on the "GOD THINKS THIS IS BAD" stuff. just say "I know that that is what you believe and I respect that... but it isn't what I believe and you need to respect THAT."

Build strong healthy boundaries between you and your folks ... but leave as many legitimate "gates" open as you can. don't slam the door on them -- as angry as you may be with them -- they love you and there is a lot of life left to live in the future. your relationship with your mom and dad is an important one and you want it to survive this. But you still want and need to be your own adult person and that requires being firm about who you are and who you love!

We love you. We are praying for you!

PS: If you want to write your letter to your parents and let a few of the parents here read it before you send it? we would be happy to do that! right parents? (steve? Brent? Andy? Png? others?)

Daniel

10-08-2007, 08:19 AM

Ashley-

I know it is hard, but your parents are ubdoubtedly trying to protect you right now. Of course, you don't see things the way they do.

Several things occur to note here.

1) If you are the only reason your girlfriend isn't drinking, that's not enough of a reason. She has to stay clean and sober for herself, whether you are in the picture of not. You can't be 'saving' her. Ok? Perhaps this isn't happening here, but if it is, it's something to address.

2) The more measured and calm you can be about things right now, the better off you will be later. Yes. This is extremely hard. But antagonizing your parents will probably do little to help your relationship with them or your girlfriend.

3) Your father did what he did out of love for you. This may be hard for you to appreciate right now. But if you can wrap you head around that for a second, it might help bridge the gap, at least momentarily. Right now you are only seeing your side of things. I'm not saying he was right in doing what he did. I'm saying he did what he did out of love and concern for you. As any parent should.

4) You'll have more options when you can stand on your own two feet. Work at doing that. And this may be the hardest thing of all. Right now you want to be with your girlfriend more than anything. That's understandable. However, it may not be possible right now. If this relationship is meant to be, you are going to have to do those things which will help both of you for the long haul. This requires patience and careful planning.

Blessings to you.

rainbow7

10-08-2007, 02:40 PM

Ashley,

you received some good advice from Daniel and U-dog. I share your anger towards your parents....even if they acted out of love, they violated your boundaries, and that makes it hard for you to trust them.

Writing to both your gf and your parents could be helpful. In the midst of so much anxiety, it is easy to be emotionally reactive, and that does not make for the best communication.

Are you able to concentrate on school in the midst of all this?
Do you meditate? If not, now would be a great time to learn.
Are there people at school you trust, who will just hang out and let you be however you feel? It's important to find supportive friends to be with when you're overwhelmed. Also don't forget to exercise, eat right and get enough sleep! I know I sound maternal.....but things really do look better when you're not completely stressed out.

And take a few minutes every day just to B-R-E-A-T-H-E. Remember that God loves you just the way you are, and that growth is often painful, for you, your parents, your gf....for everyone.

Feel yourself held in love and prayer through such a trying time...you're not alone.

Polly

"Your pain is the breaking of the shell of your understanding."
-- Kahlil Gibran

keltic63

10-08-2007, 02:58 PM

I also counsel you to write out your feelings -- either by email or by letter -- to your family. Tell them how their actions make you feel. The way you wrote it to us is a good start. You thought you had an agreement and you feel betrayed by their conversation with GF's parents. use "I" statements. "I feel" "I want" "I need" "I am going to/ not going" Don't try to justify your homosexuality or your relationship to GF. Just tell them how their actions make you feel. Tell them what the rules are in your relationship... how you expect them to treat you. Be calm, be loving, be respectful , but be firm and clear.

You could also write it all out, really blast them with all the emotions you have, then NEVER send that letter! I did that with my parents, never sent the letter, but I felt much better.

PS: If you want to write your letter to your parents and let a few of the parents here read it before you send it? we would be happy to do that! right parents? (steve? Brent? Andy? Png? others?)

You could then write the one you do send to them, and I'd be happy to look over it before you send it to them.

scott snedeker

10-08-2007, 05:27 PM

You are a human being with entitlement to love someone true to your nature. I fear that going home for Thanksgiving will result in disaster. Holidays are stressful enough. I worry about you going into an environment with no advocate for your identity.

I suspect that your folks are trying to reach out to you, but this first attempt is the wrong way. They may need to have demonstrated to them that your coming to them is not to be taken for granted. They may need to go through a Thanksgiving without you to appreciate you enough to try to understand what it means to be gay and then be invalidated by your family. Then they may think outside of the fundamentalist box and perhaps listen. To them 6 years ago seems like last summer. (I know because That's what it seems to me). I doubt that they get it right now. That you are not still 12 years old because you were just that age a year or two ago from their perspective.

Protect yourself. consider alternatives that are best from you. Your needs are more important than anyone else's right now.

Daniel

10-08-2007, 10:17 PM

Hadn't thought of it this way.

Another way to say it is that one has to think very carefully about the 'power structure' one is playing into.

I know that, when I came out to my parents, my mother disinvited my boyfriend to Thanksgiving. I told her that if he wasn't coming, I wasn't coming either. In retrosepct, I'm glad I did that. It established a clear boundary.

Perhaps knowing when- and how- to set one's limits is part of the journey.

sundance896

10-09-2007, 10:49 AM

Last night my girlfriend called me and told me that she found a place I could stay. We have a mutual friend that we worked with over the summer that I was debating on asking. Her husband is out of town right now so she's kind of lonely. I'm very excited to be staying with her, she is extremely generous to open her home to me.
My parents called me relentlessly yesterday and I ignored every one of their calls. My mom is getting very irritated because I think she's figuring out that she can't control me any more. I used to always be a people-pleaser but I'm now, for once, standing up for myself. I sent them a short email saying that I had made arrangements (for the second time) and I would be staying with a friend. They wrote back asking if I would be visiting them and I told them that I didn't think it would be a good idea. Again, they wrote back asking if I didn't want to see them bc I was having problems facing the situation or if I just didn't want to see them. They don't seem to understand that I'm just plain pissed off. I know I should try to calm down about it, but when I'm passionate about something, it's hard for me to keep a cool head. I get that from my dad.
I got an email this morning from them and it broke my heart. I have a fourteen-year-old brother who thinks I hung the moon. They haven't told him yet and my mom made it very clear that I'm not ever allowed to talk to him about it. I hope they don't brainwash him. But anyways, the email said that he had overheard them talking about me coming down (because they were arrogant enough to think they could hurt me like this and I would still come and see them when I had planned this trip for my girlfriend and I.... their time was going to be Thanksgiving) and he got really excited. But now they had to tell him that I was going to be in town but not stopping by. He was so disappointed. I miss him a lot... and I can't figure out a way to get in touch with him without my parents knowing. I just want him to know that I'm not staying away because of him, I'm just having some trouble with mom and dad right now. I certainly won't tell him anything about the situation, I just don't want him to feel hurt because of this. I know that no matter what my brother finds out about me, he's not going to judge me. That's why I really wish this had happened the way I planned... I was going to wait til he was out of the house and in college so he could make his own opinions and set his own boundaries with me.
As for Thanksgiving, I am now forced to stay with my family because I can no longer stay over with my girlfriend. So, I guess we'll see what happens. Thanks for your encouraging words and advice.

-Ashley

u-dog

10-09-2007, 11:10 AM

Ashley,

Unless your little brother is retarded (and even if he is! retarded kids are often emotionally intelligent) he's going to know that something is up. You don't need to go into the details in order to reassure him that its something between you and your folks and not about him and that you love him.

Is he the only child in America without an email address? IM? a cellphone? just drop him a line and let him know that you can't see him this weekend but that you are looking forward to being with him at Thanskgiving. If he overhears your folks talking and figures out what's going on and then ASKS YOU ABOUT IT. then you must tell him the truth about yourself. Your parents don't own this information nor do they own your relationship with your brother. Respect their wishes for now but be planning how you will respond if asked.

You are doing a great job through this crisis, Ashley. Do your best to keep your cool and to strengthen the bonds of love even though you are angry.

You know what Paul the Apostle said in Ephesians: Be angry... but don't sin.

RedneckDyke

10-09-2007, 03:54 PM

tymejumper

10-09-2007, 06:39 PM

Ashley,

[QUOTE=u-dog]Unless your little brother is retarded (and even if he is! retarded kids are often emotionally intelligent) he's going to know that something is up.

Ashley,
I am so sorry your parents are being this way.

You only need to tell your brother that your parents do not approve of who you are dating and that you will not come without your partner. You don't need to use "gay" or "lesbian". Kids are very smart, U-dog is giving good advice here. They figure things out, and he may already know that you are gay. My teen was 12 when she figured out I was gay but said not a word to me. I would not except emotional abuse from your parents. That is exactly what they are doing to you, they are using your brother as a playing piece in it. They are using your love for him to get you to bend to their will, and control you.

You should talk to your brother, and heck, he is 14 after all and not exactly a child any longer. He'll be driving in 2 years and dating also. Let him know you miss him terribly and that you want to see him but that you need to make your own decision about who to date. The worse that can happen is that your parents can get more angry, but I think once they see you will not change and it is not a phase they will settle down.(it may never be great but at least civil)

Good Luck,
Rebekah

jak4sure

10-11-2007, 09:49 PM

I was United Pentecostal. Attended Bible College in Tupelo, MS 3 yrs and graduated with a Christian Ed degree. It was very difficult to over come the teachings against "Gay Life" but by God's grace, I made it and have done very well. I am still a Christian! So are you!

All that has been said to you is great. I am also one that advocates writing down what you feel before addressing a problem. When your pastor calls (in person or on the phone) be yourself. Be a Christian. Pray before he calls and ask God for the words to say in a good way that will let him know you know who you are and that it does not change how you feel towards God. Do not argue or debate. Just know that God loves you just as you are. There is fictional book with the title "If it is love, God won't mind". I love that statement and believe it firmly.

It would also help you if you could find a MCC (Metropolitan Community Church). I have been a member of this gay accepting church since 1980. There is safety in a multitude of counselors. Keep your mind open and a sweet spirit. All will fall in line.

Jack