This is what my youth pastor said...

[drewcaine]

Drew,

I have looked at your site and see that you have openly proclaimed your tendency toward homosexuality. If you are going to come back you have to be prepared for the reality that we have not in the least changed our stance on the truth that the Bible states homosexuality is wrong.

If you have come to a new conclusion and wish to join in repentance, great. But... if you are still harboring these thoughts and tendencies, then it would probably be best for everyone if you worked through those things. If you should come to a conclusion of truth you are welcome back.

Matt

drewcaine

[u-dog]

Drew,

I have looked at your site and see that you have openly proclaimed your tendency toward homosexuality. If you are going to come back you have to be prepared for the reality that we have not in the least changed our stance on the truth that the Bible states homosexuality is wrong.

If you have come to a new conclusion and wish to join in repentance, great. But... if you are still harboring these thoughts and tendencies, then it would probably be best for everyone if you worked through those things. If you should come to a conclusion of truth you are welcome back.

Matt

drewcaine


Drew,

with all due respect to Matt... he wouldn't recognize the Gospel of Jesus Christ if it bit him on the leg. If Jesus were in a police lineup with the members of the Sanhedrin? Matt wouldn't be able to identify him. Just my opinion. Anyone who tells you that you have to chose between the person that you are and the love of Jesus Christ is a liar or an idiot...not to put to fine a point on it!

Find a real church where they focus on the love of God in Christ Jesus and not on some false gospel of the pharisees.

Just my opinion! :mad:

U-dog

[drewcaine]

I don't think we have any of those gay churches down here in Fort Smith...and I really need to go back to church, I'm getting behind. Honestly, I didn't really want to go back to church, but then again I wanted to be learning the Scripture and sharing fellowship with everyone...I sound contradictory to myself, don't I?
drewcaine

[u-dog]

I don't think we have any of those gay churches down here in Fort Smith...and I really need to go back to church, I'm getting behind. Honestly, I didn't really want to go back to church, but then again I wanted to be learning the Scripture and sharing fellowship with everyone...I sound contradictory to myself, don't I?
drewcaine


Not at all! That you want to be in Christian fellowship is the most natural and most admirable thing in the world. Of course you want to be in church and studying scripture. But if Matt and his boss are saying that you can't come unless you admit that you are a bad person... then don't do it. Find a church where you can worship and study without being judged. Maybe you can't be "out" in Ft Smith but you don't have to be judged. There may not be a open and affirming church in Ft Smith but there may be one that is less judgemental. the important thing is to find one where the GRACE OF GOD IN JESUS CHRIST is emphasized over a narrow and restrictive legalism. The GLBT church where Polly and I attend is planning to start web-casting its services soon (there have been delays for reasons that I don't understand) and that may be a resource for you. Pastor Jeff's sermons are available now though on MP3 download. I think that you will like and be comfortable with Pastor Jeff's message. He grew up in a very conservative denomination (Primitive Baptist or something) felt the call to ministry but resisted it because he thought he was unworthy because he was gay, became a lawyer and then came to the conclusion that the Bible really says nothing at all about being gay. he went to seminary and very shortly started this church. It has over 500 in worship every week.

Here is the link if you want to check it out. http://www.jesusmcc.org Listen to his sermons! he is fantastic preacher (in person anyway... I've never just "listened" to one) BEWARE !!!! he tells TERRIBLE JOKES !! :headbang:

[BenL]

Drew,

U-Dog is absolutely right. You don't have to endure what I have come to consider spiritual abuse just because you're gay. I know some of your feelings first-hand, though, so maybe I can give you that perspective to think about.

The truth, for me, is that I know that I fall far short of the love of God in Jesus Christ. I have come to see only lately -- and I'm a LOT older than you :eek: -- that my falling short is not because I am gay but because I am human, with the same human-ness as your youth pastor and your senior pastor. They come across to me, through your messages, as possessing a certain smugness about being saved, almost as if it were something they did for themselves by believing. But faith, St. Paul tells us, is a pure gift, a grace beyond understanding.

Fortunately, we have a man who shares God's essence of love for us. We can rely on his strength and not our own, and that, too, is a wonderful gift. So, we really don't need the approval of people who have condemned us. I think they totally MISread the Bible, which is a living word, not a dead document that can't be understood in new ways in every age. John's Gospel tells us that everything was not revealed at once and that the Spirit will continue to guide our understanding.

You seem to have understood how much God loves you just the way you are. As much as your church's rejection hurts, you don't need their approval, only God's. Good for you for wanting to remain in fellowship and to continue to study the Scripture. You can do that. You may need a new community, one that is more inclusive in its preaching of God's love.

I'm sure God will open a door for you. He always seems to do that when our way is blocked. Pray, be of good faith, believe that God is already working on an answer for you.

We're here for you. Don't hesitate to ask.

[keltic63]

Drew,

I'm going to make this post based on an assumption I've made about you and the situation. If I'm wrong about it please feel free to correct me, or ignore me :p I'm thinking that the kind of church you are in is about the same kind I was in as a teenager and into my 20's.

The church I left nearly 20 years ago had me brainwashed. I believed that this particular church was the only church in town that was right; they had God all locked up and if you wanted God, you had to attend this particular church. NO OTHER church in town had God's Spirit, God's blessing, and the people who attended THOSE churches were spiritually dead, deceived, and had long ago stopped preaching the TRUE gospel. My church injured me spiritually, and not over the gay issue at that point. I found myself removed from my music job there and without a church. The next Sunday I visited one of the "dead" churches, and I was shocked!!!!!! The church was full. The service was wonderful. The Spirit was indeed there. I had been lied to!

Has your church been lying to you? have they told you that there is no other place in town that has God's blessing? I know you're in the south and that fundies have a stronghold, but I think there might be some progressive thinkers around. You just need to find them. If the city is as oppressive as it sounds, the progressive, loving, accepting christians might keep a low profile. I bet they are there though.

[dsdrane]

Drew,

I have looked at your site and see that you have openly proclaimed your tendency toward homosexuality. If you are going to come back you have to be prepared for the reality that we have not in the least changed our stance on the truth that the Bible states homosexuality is wrong.

If you have come to a new conclusion and wish to join in repentance, great. But... if you are still harboring these thoughts and tendencies, then it would probably be best for everyone if you worked through those things. If you should come to a conclusion of truth you are welcome back.

Matt


Oh...where to begin?

Spreading it on a little thick, isn't he?...and all the while sounding so measured and reasonable.

That's how they get ya!

It must be extremely reassuring to Matt to have such a firm grasp of the truth, God's word and plan, as well as the ability to speak for the rest of your congregation. Very reassuring, indeed.

And he's right, you know...about it being "best for everyone" for you to "work through these things" away from his church...because you might actually cause people to think and reevaluate what they have been told (sold?) based on a real, live person they know and love.

Potentially very inconvenient for Matt, et al., I would think.

Drew, please forgive my particular tendency for sarcasm, but this message from your youth pastor has me foaming at the mouth this morning. Honestly, I'd just like to slap him, but, this being a non-violent site 'n' all, I'll have to settle for venting some spleen here with y'all.

Whatever you do, do not go back to subject yourself to this load of hooey. Is there no Congregationalist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian...hell, even a Catholic (hi Pablo!!) church in Fort Smith or its environs? Surely there is some place where you can find both study of Scripture and fellowship without having to "drink the kool-aid"!

Keep searching Drew...and let us help as much as we can.

:):agree::cookie:

[keltic63]

Whatever you do, do not go back to subject yourself to this load of hooey. Is there no Congregationalist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian...hell, even a Catholic (hi Pablo!!) church in Fort Smith or its environs? Surely there is some place where you can find both study of Scripture and fellowship without having to "drink the kool-aid"!

Keep searching Drew...and let us help as much as we can.

:):agree::cookie:

I'm already looking, and have sent an email to a youth leader in my denomination at a church there in Ft. Smith.

[Daniel]

Just want to add my voice along with those noting that your - and probably now- former church- doesn't have all the answers. Personally speaking, I know the kind of note your pastor has sent you would make me very angry. That may, however, be my own personal reaction. But should you feel this way Drew, you are not alone. Being brushed off in this manner can be hard to deal with- setting up a pattern of anger and frustration. It can make one close down entirely- which is what you don't want to be doing right now!

The guy is really giving you an ultimatum: "Believe as we do or don't bother coming back." Where's the generosity of spirit there? I don't see any. The man is poor indeed! Heart empty. With nothing to give but judgment.

You can be learning the scripture and be with like minded folks. It may take you a while to find the place to do this, and I hope you will persevere in doing so.

Please don't give up on yourself, or let another's bad manners and behavior stop you.

Keep your heart open my friend!

[u-dog]

The guy is really giving you an ultimatum: "Believe as we do or don't bother coming back." Where's the generosity of spirit there? I don't see any. The man is poor indeed! Heart empty. With nothing to give but judgment.


To put an explicitly Christian spin on what Daniel has said:

"Test the Spirits to see if they are of God"

[dsdrane]

I found the following at the Chamber of Commerce:

http://www.fortsmithchamber.org/features/FeaturesDisplay.asp?p1=1320&p2=Y&Sort=

Who knew?? :rolleyes:

:D

P.S. They even have...gasp!...Lutherans!! :eek:

[sailaway58]

I am so angry right now all I can add is listen to the words written from these friends at soulforce and don't let this arrogant misinformed youth pastor have any place in your life. His words will only lock you in a closet and depress you.

[labguy22]

Hello Drew,
This didn't happen to come from a Baptist pastor did it?
I am truely greatful that Christ never offered this sort of advice to people.
You're much better off seeing their true colors and I'm sure there are plenty of others that will accept you as you are; soulforce members certainly do.

[tdogg]

Just know Drew that Christ surrounded himself with people that religious zealots in the day wouldn't give the time of day to. There are some options, if you can't find an affirming and welcoming church, then perhaps a Bible study, or for now an on-line group (hey, these forums!!) for support and Bible study.

Definitely surround yourself with loving, compassionate, caring and understand people. You do not need narrow-minded invididuals who aren't capable to love in the manner Christ taught. I'm sure you'll find something in the area where you can fellowship and feel welcome and loved. :love:

[drewcaine]

Wow...I appreciate the e-mail thing.
drewcaine

[ladyinred]

Drew do these guy sound like they are trying to screw with your head and emotions, they aren't you may or may not be homosexual I don't know. But save yourself the time and misery of going to a church that is a toxic waste dump and will only pile on the confusion and hate. I don't suspect you want to hate people, You are young and probably impressionable. People who bring you down will not bring you up.