Not on Target

[tpdncr4christ]

So at my work, I am one of four people who manage the front end of my store. There's four of us so that there can always be someone to be in charge. All four of us are guys, the other three in their mid to late 20s. The other three keep making jokes about gays, and keep saying that stuff is gay and its really rather annoying. I mentioned how excited I was about the fact that Isaac Mizrahi was designing a line of clothes for team members, in red and khaki, and one of the guys says, "That's gay." and they all started laughing. Target has a policy dedicated to diversity and many of my team find these cracks to be rude and offensive as well. I've talked to my ETL-HR and she really doesn't seem to care too much. I've tried, really tried to make it obvious that I am gay, but either they are just idiotic morons or they wouldn't know a rainbow if it hit them in the head. I don't want to cause trouble, and I really don't care what they think, I just don't want to create an awkward situation with the three people I deal with the most, especially since 40+ hours of my week are spent in that store. Any suggestions?

[Alecto]

Never laugh along. Just throw out "Actually guys, I find that really offensive". If you haven't specifically and bluntly come out, I can almost guarantee an answer of "well, my gay friend says it all the time". There's always a magical gay friend who makes anything offensive "ok". My answer has always been "yeah, well, this gay guy doesn't think it's ok", but I'm also in a position where I'm pretty well able to be out at work (it sounds like you are too?).

I'm not sure how the rules work, but I think it's fair (and possibly necessary?) for me to talk to someone about something that bothers me before I go to a manager. That said, if I've talked to them about it and it continues, that right there is the definition of harassment. Depending on what state you're in, you might be protected by state law as well as Target corporate policy. Either way, go back to HR if problems continue. Use the word "harassment". And if you get nowhere, go higher up (at very least until someone can explain to you what is and is not allowed by the policy in question).

If you've talked to others about the comments, it might help to have them also, on their own, file complaints as well (especially, again, if problems continue after having said something).

That is how I would proceed, anyway, but I'm also in a spot where I'm living with my parents and not depending on my job to like...live. Your situation may vary, and only you can really gauge what level (if any) of risk you take in "making waves".

[sailaway58]

Fuck the waves, you have a right to a harassment free environment. My wife does human resource and deals with this crap all the time. For much less than that people get warned, next written up then comes suspension and if the don't learn how to work with others finally let go.
If your human resource mgr is not helping seek help above her. Don't be a whiner just be firm that this creates an uncomfortable work environment and borders on harassment. Your shift mgr should not make light of this either.

[Vanessa White]

I agree with sailaway, this DEFINITELY warrants filing a harassment complaint, and HR better get on the ball there, because incidents like this absolutely should not be ignored. I have to say that I absolutely love shopping at Target, because of their policies, diversity initiatives, and their merchandise. HOWEVER, suffice it to say that as a regular shopper who also happens to be a lesbian, I would consider not shopping there if this type of situation is not addressed. Just my food for thought......:mad:

[Progo35]

Unfortunately, it sounds like you have a human resource manager not unlike many human resource manager: she just doesn't care. I'd say that if you've discussed the situation with your colleagues, you do have the right to file a complaint. I would reccommend calling the better business bureau to see if you can get some advice from them.

[tpdncr4christ]

Thanks for the advice, I just don't really want to make big waves... I know I can't wait, and I can't just sit and do nothing... grr. I feel more obligated to say something for my team, not myself. I really just want to be coy and not have to go above these guys heads. It would be really cool to do what Alecto said, about the magic gay friend, I'll see if I'm brave enough to try that next time. Thanks again.

[u-dog]

Thanks for the advice, I just don't really want to make big waves... I know I can't wait, and I can't just sit and do nothing... grr. I feel more obligated to say something for my team, not myself. I really just want to be coy and not have to go above these guys heads. It would be really cool to do what Alecto said, about the magic gay friend, I'll see if I'm brave enough to try that next time. Thanks again.


Austin,

My only thought is that you want to be careful not to do anything to embarrass or humiliate anyone. You might want to consider taking each one of these guys aside in a private conversation to let them know how this stuff is impacting you personally and the effect you see it having on the team. Level with them. Assume the best about their intentions. Say something like "Look Tim, I know that you don't really mean anything by it and your not trying to be mean but when I hear you say "blah blah blah gays blah blah blah" it makes me feel bad. I'm a gay man and I'm doing the best work I know how to do here and I need to feel like I'm being treated with respect. You may not like the fact that I'm gay ..but there isn't anything I can do about it and so we just need to do the best we can... Does that make sense?"

In other words, level with these guys in a way that doesn't back them into a corner or encourage them to experience shame. Give them the information and opportunity they need to do the right thing and be the person you want them to be.

If that doesn't have the desired effect and it continues to be unbearable then go back to HR and say "harrassment" and see what happens but once you do that, there is no going back to the personal problem solving stage. Don't close ANY doors before you absolutely have to. God is giving you an opportunity to be an agent of change in these three human hearts... don't throw that away til you have no other choice.

[RedneckDyke]

So at my work, I am one of four people who manage the front end of my store. There's four of us so that there can always be someone to be in charge. All four of us are guys, the other three in their mid to late 20s. The other three keep making jokes about gays, and keep saying that stuff is gay and its really rather annoying. I mentioned how excited I was about the fact that Isaac Mizrahi was designing a line of clothes for team members, in red and khaki, and one of the guys says, "That's gay." and they all started laughing. Target has a policy dedicated to diversity and many of my team find these cracks to be rude and offensive as well. I've talked to my ETL-HR and she really doesn't seem to care too much. I've tried, really tried to make it obvious that I am gay, but either they are just idiotic morons or they wouldn't know a rainbow if it hit them in the head. I don't want to cause trouble, and I really don't care what they think, I just don't want to create an awkward situation with the three people I deal with the most, especially since 40+ hours of my week are spent in that store. Any suggestions?


The next time someone says "that's gay" I suggest saying "oh, is it? And you know it's gay how? Do you know this from personal experience whether something is gay?"
That ought to shut em up

[Zerbie]

Austin,

Before complaining to HR, speak directly and calmly to these guys. As Udog brilliantly suggested, ONE AT A TIME. First chance you have, talk to each one of them alone - that way, none of them feel embarassed or chastised in front of anyone else. It gives them the chance to correct their behavior without embarassment. That shows them you respect them, and if they are halfway decent, they will respond by respecting you for it. Tell them how it makes you feel (leave the others out of it, only "I" statements work in these kinds of scenarios,) and ASK them to stop.

Only go to HR if they don't stop after you've asked.

[BrentRichards]

Never laugh along. Just throw out "Actually guys, I find that really offensive". If you haven't specifically and bluntly come out, I can almost guarantee an answer of "well, my gay friend says it all the time". There's always a magical gay friend who makes anything offensive "ok". My answer has always been "yeah, well, this gay guy doesn't think it's ok", but I'm also in a position where I'm pretty well able to be out at work (it sounds like you are too?).

All of the advice here so far is good ... I'll jump on board with the talk to them individually strategy ... Going "over their head" will invariably make enemies, so it should be the strategy of last resort. If they respond well to your conversation, you'll make a friend and ally instead.

I like Alecto's point here about the "magical gay friend" ... my kids have said something similar to me about minority kids in our lilly white country town who "don't mind" the racial slurs used towards them. "They laugh too!" My point to them is, if you were the only black kid in town, you might just laugh along too, if it meant keeping the only friends available to you, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt! Same applies here.

[Progo35]

I don't know that this is helpful to you, tnpdcrforchrist, but you aren't alone, disability advocates recently won a lawsuit against Target because of lack of accessibility on its website, among other things:

http://us.f456.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?MsgId=3137_104599_1022_2951_5666_0_29_1 8535_889930414&Idx=8&YY=40023&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&inc=25&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=&head=&box=Inbox

So, you're not alone, and obviously we all need to work together to make Target and other places more sensitive to the dignity of LGBT individuals, disabled people, and minorities in general. Perhaps the fact that this group was succesfful in its suite will inspire you. I hope everything is going okay, or at least better.

[sailaway58]

Well to soften my first post I might suggest you look at the shirts in question, they could be right.... JUST KIDDING! I still say *uc& 'em They know what they are doing.
Of course you realize, I don't have allot of friends. :rolleyes:

[tpdncr4christ]

I talked to the guys today, cause we were all there. Two of them apologized, and then the other just kinda shrugged his shoulders. One of them said something was gay, and I said like me! He was kinda taken aback but I guess he got over it. Good day. Thanks for your advice guys, it meant and helped allot.

[u-dog]

I am so happy that it went so well, Austin! We will win this war ONE PERSON AT A TIME and one encounter at a time by being as authentically and honestly and courageously ourselves as we can be. I admire your courage and honesty. Regarding the guy who "shrugged", I'm guessing that somehow you probably triggered his shame. That would not have been your fault or anything you did, but something to do with him and his experience. I predict that he will fall in with the new "culture" being defined by you and the other two guys. Congrats! :award:

[Vanessa White]

Austin: I am so proud and excited at your willingess to "step out" a bit and take a risk, and change lives and minds in the meantime. We have been quite busy around here this week with facing our own personal challenges and our "teaching moments". It is SOOOOOOO powerful, isn't it?? :love::love:

[scott snedeker]

I talked to the guys today, cause we were all there. Two of them apologized, and then the other just kinda shrugged his shoulders. One of them said something was gay, and I said like me! He was kinda taken aback but I guess he got over it. Good day. Thanks for your advice guys, it meant and helped allot.

Being gay in a homophobic society is a crucible. What burns away leaves pure gold!

Congratulations! Austin!
:cool:

[BrentRichards]

I talked to the guys today, cause we were all there. Two of them apologized, and then the other just kinda shrugged his shoulders. One of them said something was gay, and I said like me! He was kinda taken aback but I guess he got over it. Good day. Thanks for your advice guys, it meant and helped allot.

In the words of the great 20th Century philosopher, Meatloaf: "Don't feel sad, 'cause two out of three ain't bad!"

Waytuhgo, bro!

[sailaway58]

Good for you. I hate being wrong but my wife says I should be used to it by now.

[Zerbie]

Austin, that's really wonderful!!

:D

[u-dog]

Austin!

How is the work environment at Target for you these days? was there lasting change? Give us an update. Enquiring minds want to know!

[tpdncr4christ]

Good! We've all been working our rears off preparing for the fourth quarter. One of my bosses came to me and asked me to make up lyrics for a song so we could sing for reindeer run, a thing were all the store managers in the area come to each store for encouragement and stuff. Well, anyway, I wrote some lyrics to the tune of jingle bells, and then sang them to my colleagues. The guy closest to my age after I finished said, "That's gay." I said, "Why yes, yes it is." Then we laughed... so stuff is good. :D

[scott snedeker]

Good! We've all been working our rears off preparing for the fourth quarter. One of my bosses came to me and asked me to make up lyrics for a song so we could sing for reindeer run, a thing were all the store managers in the area come to each store for encouragement and stuff. Well, anyway, I wrote some lyrics to the tune of jingle bells, and then sang them to my colleagues. The guy closest to my age after I finished said, "That's gay." I said, "Why yes, yes it is." Then we laughed... so stuff is good. :D

Turning it around! It's good to be gay! Yeah!