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ladyinred
11-03-2007, 07:02 PM
I know you are a biblical scholar,and if I remember correctly have studied greek or latin. I don't know if you are familar with this.English translation of Aramaic. It isn't not the whole bible but what I thought you might find interesting is the 1 Corinthians verses that are always thrown at GLBT people and what this says.http://www.v-a.com/bible/

http://www.v-a.com/bible/letters/ ,


this has the 1 Corinthians 1:6 verses in it.http://www.v-a.com/bible/letters/1corinthians.html so called directed at homosexuality(not even a word until the nineteenth century)

From what I read about greek history men often took boys as servants and as their lovers(they also were their mentors, if I remember right they preferred boys who had not yet reached full maturity or had masculine body hair, it was their ideal of beauty for a male partner.) They actually thought this ideal as they thought these young boys were superior to a woman's love. This was the norm in those times, historically but there were other norms that we know people had adhered to historically that we would not adhere to now, in those societies, women were more like property in Roman society, children could be sold into slavery, slavery was the norm,prostitution was wide spread among others.

How can people use social norms of the past like those to judge gay people today, even the idea of marriage is different (Concubine anyone? Property?) and we don't sell children into slavery.We also don't feed people to the lions or crucify them when they commit crimes.

Something interesting off this website:About Roman culture : This was excerpted from the article from this website:http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/sexualit1/Sexuality_Homosexuality_Prostitution_Love.htm

The Roman Empire has often been portrayed as possessing a moral tolerance of homosexuality, and there is some truth in this. But, the Roman conception of same-sex relationships was very different than that of the modern West. The most important factors in the Roman view seem to have been the status and role of the partners.
The Romans did not consider homosexual or heterosexual identities as exclusive from one another. While bisexuality was common, strict homosexuality was all but unknown.

Unlike the modern view, social class mattered a great deal in the acceptability of homosexual relations. The upper classes were much more likely to indulge in homosexual acts, and masters had the sexual use of their slaves. But homosexual relations between freeborn Romans were regarded as disgraceful.
The role taken by the respective partners in homosexual acts between males mattered a great deal to the Romans. The measure of sexual manhood was to penetrate, while to be penetrated was regarded as effeminizing. The first was seen as an assertion of dominance, the latter as a degrading submission.
Paul wrote in response to his own times, the customs back then. what he saw in the culture at the time .



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andrewlittle
11-03-2007, 08:28 PM
I know you are a biblical scholar,and if I remember correctly have studied greek or latin. I don't know if you are familar with this.English translation of Aramaic. It isn't not the whole bible but what I thought you might find interesting is the 1 Corinthians verses that are always thrown at GLBT people and what this says.http://www.v-a.com/bible/

http://www.v-a.com/bible/letters/ ,


this has the 1 Corinthians 1:6 verses in it.http://www.v-a.com/bible/letters/1corinthians.html

Hi ladyinred,

I want to do more research, but I am initially a little sceptical to say the least. For any "translation", I like to see the number and qualifications of interpretors, and the variety of their backgrounds and traditions It gives me some idea of the level of scholarship, depth of research, etc.

This site truly disturbed from the perspective of there not being any scholarly attributes, any explanation or verification of the claim that "the whole new testament was written in Aramaic" (which stands in sharp contrast to all other Bible scholarship), nor why, if that was true, this man is the only person to have translated it correctly. There are major claims made, with no verifiable evidence.

A little more research, based on the name Vic Alexander and his address which is included on some of the pages to which you linked, showed that Vic is a staunch Republican (not necessarily a bad thing) who describes George W. Bush as "the greatest President we've ever had" because he "declared freedom as a gift from God for all humanity" as he started the war on terror. http://www.v-a.com/communication/birth_of_a_nation.html His opinion likening Democrats to neanderthals is also enlightening - http://www.v-a.com/communication/return_of_the_neanderthal.htm

Also I found out that Vic is an independent film-maker who sells 35mm film stock on the side (http://www.releasing.net/rawstock/).

I am having trouble trying to figure out why this has any credibility at all, but will continue to look into it - as I try to set aside my own initial feelings and biases.

ladyinred
11-03-2007, 09:17 PM
I guess I was looking more to what it said in Corinthians in the fact it doesn't use the word Homosexual and instead uses the word child molerster with the footnote saying young boys. You are probably right , I didn't check the credentials .But with so many translations throughout the years of the bible you wonder if the real meaning isn't lost. I guess to me that was perhaps proof that these verses didn't mention homosexual relationships in particular but pedastry. But again that was a norm in greek society and Roman society at the time. I guess I was just asking why do they use the norms of 2 thousand years ago that don't even pertain to societal norms to day to judge LGBT people and their relationships today?. That just bugs the ****sh*t outta me. Call me the inquiring mind that wants to know... Besides maybe I'm starting to look more and more like my avatar.I ain't "normal"(Joke)And besides that I ended up getting a butch haircut today and I'm not butch.Something strange is going on here,could it be a conspiracy?(Another joke)

andrewlittle
11-04-2007, 07:36 AM
I guess I was looking more to what it said in Corinthians in the fact it doesn't use the word Homosexual and instead uses the word child molerster with the footnote saying young boys. You are probably right , I didn't check the credentials .But with so many translations throughout the years of the bible you wonder if the real meaning isn't lost. I guess to me that was perhaps proof that these verses didn't mention homosexual relationships in particular but pedastry. But again that was a norm in greek society and Roman society at the time. I guess I was just asking why do they use the norms of 2 thousand years ago that don't even pertain to societal norms to day to judge LGBT people and their relationships today?. That just bugs the ****sh*t outta me. Call me the inquiring mind that wants to know... Besides maybe I'm starting to look more and more like my avatar.I ain't "normal"(Joke)And besides that I ended up getting a butch haircut today and I'm not butch.Something strange is going on here,could it be a conspiracy?(Another joke)

One of the things I'm gonna check is how he dealt with all the clobber passages. It just might prove interesting to see if there's some kind of shift.

I'm no conspiracy nut - okay, that's not true - but you may be onto something there. Who exerted influence on you to get a butch cut?

ladyinred
11-04-2007, 10:05 AM
LOL Andy , too funny about the haircut, it just happened.. Actually I wanted a trim and ended getting it a bit shorter than I wanted . Oh well,it'll grow back. Glad you are doing well and things are working out ,have you been ordained yet? Anyway congratulations on your new life. I knew you would pull through. (I had a good laugh about that who exerted influence over you? ,LOL) I often poke fun at myself, by the way.